Fikra za Mwalimu: Hizi hapa.. mzikubali au mzipinge!

[Rev.Kishoka]

Mkuu wangu Kishoka,

Heshima mbele, na sina zaidi ila heshima tena mbele maana tujadili huku tukikubali ukweli kusudi tujue tumefikaje hapa na tunaenda wapi?

Mkuu wangu sasa tukazanie kwenye umediocre wa sera zake na impact kwa taifa letu, since uzuri wake wote tunaufahamu.

Ahsante Mkuu.

Naona hili tulizungumze kule kwenye thread ya Legacy, maana hapa tunaangalia Fikra.

 

[BAK]

Mkuu heshima mbele, wewe ziweke hapa tuzichambue ukweli nitakubali, lakini ninataka kuwaonyesha wananchi kwamba hatuko hapa tumedumaa as a nation kwa bahati mbaya, na sababu nyingi za msingi zinapatikana kwenye maneno na fikra za Mwalimu,

Yes yanayotukuta sasa, mengi ni uzembe wetu wenyewe kibin-adam, as a nation, lakini kisiasa ni lazima kuwe na someone to point a fingure at,

Otherwise, mkuu ahsante kwa finally, kukubali kuwa Mwalimu alikuwa bin-adam kama sisi, alikuwa na mapungufu makubwa ambayo baadhi yake ndio yametufikisha tulipo as a nation. I am more than happy kukata ishus kama utaweka maneno maneno moja baada ya lingine ya Mwalimu, hapa tuyachambue kulingana na mazuri yetu kitaifa na mabaya yetu.

Ahsante.

Mkuu, Mwalimu kama binadamu hakuwa perfect alikuwa na mapungufu kama binadamu wengine lakini kamwe hatuwezi kumlaumu Mwalimu kwa kila baya lililoifika Tanzania basi lilisababishwa na Mwalimu.

Kenya hawakuwa na Mwalimu, kama sisi walikuwa na "amani" katika miaka mingi ya uhuru wao lakini kwa maoni yangu sioni kama kuna tofauti kubwa kati ya maisha ya Wakenya walio wengi na Watanzania walio wengi. Kusema kweli yanashabihiana sana pamoja na kuwa wenzetu walikuwa na siasa za kibepari zilizoungwa mkono na mataifa mengi ya magharibi. Je, kulikoni leo hii nchi ambayo bado inaathirika kwa siasa za Mwalimu maisha ya wananchi wake yashabihiane sana na wananchi ambao walikuwa wana siasa za kibepari? 😕

Mwalimu aling'atuka tangu mwaka 1985, miaka 23 iliyopita. Umri wa mtu mzima kabisa katika nchi za wenzetu na hata Tanzani ni mtu ambaye tayari kishamaliza degree ya kwanza na kuanza kujitegemea. Tangu kung'atuka kwa Mwalimu tumekuwa na Marais watatu Mwinyi, Mkapa na Kikwete. Utendaji wao walipokuwa marais kamwe hauwezi kulinganishwa na Mwalimu pamoja na kwamba sera za mwalimu hazikufanikiwa katika utekelezaji, lakini hata hii leo Watanzania wengi wataziunga mkono sera za Mwalimu.

Mwalimu alikuwa na mapenzi ya kweli kwa Tanzania na Watanzania ukilinganisha hasa na Mkapa na Kikwete. Hakuwa fisadi wala mroho wa utajiri wa haraka haraka kama tunavyowaona mafisadi wanaotuibia hata rasilimali zetu ili wawe mabilionea kwa kasi ya kupindukia. Siku zote aliweka mbele maslahi ya Tanzania ukiondoa nyakati zile ambazo aliamua kuwasaidia majirani ambao bado walikuwa wanatawaliwa. Mwalimu alisema kwamba Tanzania haiwezi kuwa huru iwapo majirani zake wengi bado wanatawaliwa na hivyo kutumia mapesa mengi ya Tanzania kuwasaidia wapigania uhuru, hili wengine wanaweza kuliona kama lilikuwa ni kosa na wengine wanaweza kuliona lilistahili kufanywa.

Maamuzi mengi aliyoyafanya Mwalimu aliweka mbele jinsi yatakavyomuathiri Mtanzania ana likwapenda Watanzania wote bila kujali dini, rangi au kabila. Kama mtakumbuka Mwalimu alimfukuza kazi Mtei pale alipomshauri akubali masharti ya mkopo toka IMF na WB. Mwalimu alikataa masharti yale kwa kuwa hayakuwa na maslahi yoyote kwa Watanzania bali kutuongezea ugumu wa maisha. Nimeshauliza hapa si mara moja, wale waliokubali masharti ya IMF na WB ili Tanzania ipatiwe mkopo kwa mfani kushusha thamani ya shilingi kumesaidiaje hali ya maisha ya Watanzania walio wengi? Mpaka leo hajatokea wa kujibu swali langu. Je, hili wa kumlaumu ni Mwalimu?

Je, sera za privatisation zilizoshabikiwa na IMF na WB na hatimaye kuingizwa Tanzania na kuwapa matumaini makubwa Watanzania kwamba sasa tutapiga hatua. Matokeo ya sera hizi wote tunayajua. Sera hizo zimeisadiaje Tanzania na Watanzania walio wengi? Msiniambie kwamba wakati wa Nyerere tulikuwa hatuna TV sasa tuna TV. Je, sera za privatisation nazo wa kulaumiwa ni Mwalimu?

Tukirudi kwenye mikataba ya madini. Mwalimu alisema ni bora yaendelee kuwepo ardhini kuliko kuwaruhusu wageni wachimbe madini hayo na Watanzania wasifaidike hata kidogo. Je, mikataba ya madini iliyosainiwa na mafisadi wa kulaumiwa ni Mwalimu?

Mwalimu aliona umuhimu mkubwa wa uchumi wa Watanzania kuwa mikononi mwa Watanzania. Hivyo aliamua elimu iwe bure ili kuwawezesha Watanzania wote bila kujali kipato chao waweze kupata elimu mpaka ya chuo kikuu na hatimaye kuwa viongozi katika mashirika na makampuni yetu mbali mbali, pamoja na matatizo yaliyotokea kwenye mashirika ya umma, lakini hii ilikuwa ni sera nzuri sana na hata Watanzania wasomi wanaotamba katika kila kona duniani leo hii baada ya miaka 23 tangu Mwalimu ang'atuke ni matokeo ya sera zake.

Kwa kumalizia tu ni kwamba kuendelea kumlaumu Mwalimu kwa matatizo ya Tanzania miaka 23 tangu aondoke madarakani ni ufisadi wa aina yake. Haiwezekani waje marais wengine watatu tangu ang'atuke na bado matatizo ya Tanzania kila siku yanatupiwa kwake. Kipindi cha miaka 23 ni muda mrefu sana kurekebisha makosa yote yaliyofanywa na Mwalimu, lakini kwa maoni yangu sasa hivi hali imekuwa mbaya zaidi kuliko hata Mwalimu alipokuwa madarakani.

Tafadhalini mwacheni Mwalimu apumzimke kwa amani na familia yake pia ipate amani kutokana na matendo yake ambayo mengi yalikuwa mazuri kuliko yaliyokuwa mabaya. Mwalimu kamwe hawezi kufananishwa na mafisadi waroho wa utajiri wa haraka haraka akina fisadi Mkapa na marafiki zake. Kama sio Mwalimu leo Tanzania tusingekuwa na vyama vingi, maana waliopewa kazi ya kukusanya maoni ya Watnzania katika kila kona ya nchi walishahitimisha kwamba Watanzania wamevikataa vyama vingi, lakini Mwalimu akasema wakati wa vyama vingi umefika tusifanye makosa ya kuendelea kuwa na chama kimoja. Mwalimu rest in peace~AMEN

 

[Rev.Kishoka]

kamwe hatuwezi kumlaumu Mwalimu kwa kila baya lililoifika Tanzania basi lilisababishwa na Mwalimu.

Mwalimu aliona umuhimu mkubwa wa uchumi wa Watanzania kuwa mikononi mwa Watanzania. Hivyo aliamua elimu iwe bure ili kuwawezesha Watanzania wote bila kujali kipato chao waweze kupata elimu mpaka ya chuo kikuu na hatimaye kuwa viongozi katika mashirika na makampuni yetu mbali mbali, pamoja na matatizo yaliyotokea kwenye mashirika ya umma, lakini hii ilikuwa ni sera nzuri sana na hata Watanzania wasomi wanaotamba katika kila kona duniani leo hii baada ya miaka 23 tangu Mwalimu ang'atuke ni matokeo ya sera zake.

Kwa kuamlizia tu ni kwamba kuendelea kumalumu Mwalimu kwa matatizo ya Tanzania miaka 23 tangu aondoke madarakani ni ufisadi wa aina yake. Haiwezekani waje marais wengine watatu tangu ang'atuke na bado matatizo ya Tanzania kila siku yanatupiwa kwake. Kipindi cha miaka 23 ni muda mrefu sana kurekebisha makosa yote yaliyofanywa na Mwalimu, lakini kwa maoni yangu sasa hivi hali imekuwa mbaya zaidi kuliko hata Mwalimu alipokuwa madarakani.

Tafadhalini mwacheni Mwalimu apumzimke kwa amani na familia yake pia ipate amani kutokana na matendo yake ambayo mengi yalikuwa mazuri kuliko yaliyokuwa mabaya. Mwalimu kamwe hawezi kufananishwa na mafisadi waroho wa utajiri wa haraka haraka akina fisadi Mkapa na marafiki zake. Kama sio Mwalimu leo Tanzania tusingekuwa na vyama vingi, maana waliopewa kazi ya kukusanya maoni ya Watnzania katika kila kona ya nchi walishahitimisha kwamba Watanzania wamevikataa vyama vingi, lakini Mwalimu akasema wakati wa vyama vingi umefika tusifanye makosa ya kuendelea kuwa na chama kimoja. Mwalimu rest in peace~AMEN

Bubu,

Weye ulikuwa umetega sikio kwenye simu yangu wakati nalonga na Bob Mkandara mchana huu? Maana ulichoongea hapa ndicho tulichoongea.

Naomba nitoke nje ya kujadili Fikra Bora/Sahihi na kutoa nyongeza kwa hii nukuu hapo juu.

Wakati alipokuwa Mwinyi, tulikuwa na ERP (Economic Recovery Program). Je tulifika wapi na huo mradi wa IMF/WB kutuondolea Umasikini, Ujinga na Maradhi?

Infact Mwalimu alikiri indirectly makosa ya kuwa na mfumo wa Chama kimoja cha Siasa. Yaliyotokea Ulaya mashariki 1988-1991 yalikuwa fundisho tosha, ndio maana kina Mwinyi waliposema Wananchi hawataki Vyama vingi, Nyerere aliwakalia kooni na kwa shingo upande, CCM yake wakakubali mfumo wa vyama vingi.

Kama Nyerere aliondoka miaka 23 iliyopita, je tumeshindwa nini kuwa na Recovery Program katika kipindi cha miaka 23 au 9 tangu atutoke Duniani ili Taifa letu lianze kupata Maendeleo ya kweli yaliyozubaishwa na Nyerere kwa Fikra, Sera na Itikadi zake?

This is why I challenge people to come up with new elements of development if we want to prove Mwalimu was completely wrong na nilichosikia ni jibu kutoka kwa homeboy Kitila kuwa "Lazima CCM ing'olewe Kwanza"!

 

[Mzee Mwanakijiji]

Nitaleta fikra zake zinazofuatia hivi punde ambazo ni direct prelude ya fikra zake kuhusu vijiji vya ujamaa.

 

[Mzee Mwanakijiji]

Haya ni mawazo ya mwalimu kuhusu fikra huru na kwanini hoja yenye nguvu inaposhinda iheshimiwe. Katika haya unaweza kupata mwanga wa mambo kadhaa.

a. Nyerere alikuwa anawashinda watu kwa hoja na wengi walikuwa wanahoja dhaifu.

b. Hadi hivi sasa hatujasikia mtu aliyetoa hoja au fikra yoyote alternative. Hata Kambona baada ya kukimbia na kwa muda wote aliokuwa uhamishoni hakuja na fikra zozote mbadala au kuandika lolote ambalo lilikuwa substantially tofauti na fikra za Mwalimu.

c. Ukiangalia kwenye sehemu hii ya hotuba utaelewa ni wapi tatizo la Watanzania lilipo hasa hususan kwenye sera. Tunataka maendeleo lakini hatutaki kulipa gharama ya maendeleo.

d. Hata leo hii bado matatizo ni yale yale kwamba free debate is threatened na nidhamu ya kazi imepungua. Unaposoma kuhusu "nidhamu" kumbuka wimbo wa JUWATA kuhusu "Nidhamu ya kazi, ni msingi wa mafanikio mema kazini".. Je tunayo discipline kazini au hili wazo la discipline nalo ni la kutupilia mbali?

e. Kuna makosa gani katika mawazo ya Nyerere kuhusu free speech and discipline?

f. Unaposoma kumbuka tuko miaka kama saba tu baada ya uhuru na tunatafuta mwelekeo wa ujenzi wa Taifa letu.

TWO ESSENTIALS OF DEMOCRACY (1968)
By. J. K. Nyerere in Man and Development (Pg 58-60)

There are, however, two essential elements of democracy without which it cannot work. First, is that everyone must be allowed to speak freely, and everyone must be listened to. It does not matter how unpopular a man's ideas, or how mistaken the majority think of him. It does not make any difference whether he is liked or disliked for h is personal qualities. Every Tanzania, every member of a community, every member of a District Council, every Member of Parliament, and so on, must have the freedom to speak without fear of intimidation – either inside or outside the meeting place.

The minority in any debate must have the right to speak without fear of persecution; it must be defeated in argument, not by threat of force. The debates leading to a decision must be free debates. And even after a decision has been made, free discussion about it should be allowed to continue. For the minority must know that if it has a good case, and if it argues properly and correctly, it will be able to convert the majority. Similarly, the majority must be willing to maintain the argument until the minority has been convinced of the correctness of the decision which has been made. Free debate must continue. It is an essential element of personal freedom.

But the necessity for continued freedom in discussion must not be allowed to prevent decisions from being made. There come a point where action must follow discussion. or else we shall do nothing but talk. When there has been adequate discussion of a question, and every point of view has been expressed, then the decision must be reached, and the majority must be allowed to prevail. For just the minority on any question have a right to be heard, so the majority has the right to be obeyed. Once a decision is reached, it must be accepted as the decision of all.

And everyone, including those who were in opposition has to cooperate in carrying out that decision. Thus, for example, once a law has been passed it must be obeyed by everyone, including those who spoke against and have not been convinced by the arguments put forward in its support. More than that, once a law has been passed, it must be actively supported by everyone. It should not be merely a matter of acquiescence.

It is not enough that a citizen should himself refrain from stealing; he must cooperate with the police in upholding the law, and must give over to the police those who transgress it.

For democratic decision-making must be followed by discipline in carrying out the decisions. The minority must be allowed to succeed in getting majority support for a change; they must obey the law or the rule which has been laid down. Without this kind of discipline no development of any kind is possible.

Discipline must exist in every aspect of our live. And it must be willingly accepted discipline. For it is an essential part of both freedom and development. The greater freedom which comes from working together, and achieving things by co-operation which none acceptance of joint decisions. And this involves the acceptance of lawfully constituted authority. It means that if we work in factory, we have to accept the discipline of that factory. Whether the factory is privately or publicly owned makes no difference; its rules must be adhered to and the people who are in charge of particular operation must be obeyed. Similarly, in hospitals, schools, offices, and so on.

If the doctor orders certain treatment for the patient, it must be carried out by the nurse without argument, and the without carelessness. If the matron lays down rules designed to ensure the smooth operation of the hospital, every nurse must obey these rules. If there difficulties, representations can be made, but in the meantime the hospital discipline must be maintained or the person must accept dismissal.

The same thing is true in our villages and rural communities. Once a Community has democratically decided upon a particular self0help scheme everyone must cooperate in carrying out that decision, or pay the penalty which the village agrees upon.

Yet provided decisions are made after free and friendly discussion, and by majority will the essential discipline should be freely accepted, and should in fact be largely self-discipline. For if our people want freedom for themselves, and if they want development then they will accept the need for disciplined action. Indeed, the acceptance of community discipline is only a problem in Tanzania when our people do not understand the implications of the changes which we have already effected in our lives.

In traditional society we had discipline – often very severe. It was accepted by everyone and everyone cooperated in imposing it. Our problem now comes not from the discipline itself, but from a lack of understanding about the machinery which his necessary for discipline in a modern state, and from a failure to realize that different kinds of discipline are needed in the organizations of a modern society. Thus, for example theft was dealt with directly by the community when each village looked after its own peace and security. Now it is essential that suspected thieves should be handed over to the police, and not mishandled by the people themselves. Or again, the simple rules of an isolated village are not enough for the running of a modern factory. In the village it rarely mattered whether a man carried out his task at daybreak or at noon; in a factory hundreds of other people can be made idle just because one man does not do his job at the right time.

These new kinds of discipline must be accepted by our people, and by all our leaders. And if anyone is unwilling to accept his responsibilities in this matter, then he must accept the penalties of his failure. If he disobeys the law, then the courts must punish him. If he fails to observe discipline in his work, the he must be dismissed. For we have to accept that the people in authority in Tanzania now are the agents of the people of Tanzania. If they do their job badly, or if they fail to respect the humanity of every human being, then the Government will replace them, or at an election the people will replace them.

But in the meantime they must be upheld while they are carrying out the law, or issuing orders which are in conformity with the law. We must ourselves stop abusing people who are trying to ensure discipline; we must stop calling a man "mkoloni" when he demands strict observance of the rules in an office, a factory, a hospital, a school, or any other institution.

If we are to live our lives in peace and harmony, and if we are to achieve our ambitions of improving the conditions under which we live, we must have both freedom and discipline. For freedom without discipline is anarchy, discipline without freedom is tyranny.

Discipline, however, must be a means of implementing decisions. Only in the very limited sense of orderly debate is discipline involved in the making of decisions. And discipline is not another word for force. A meeting must be discipline if every member is to have an opportunity to be heard, but a disciplined meeting is not one where everyone automatically says "yes" to whatever is suggested. A disciplined meeting is one whether the rules which have been accepted as fair are observed by everyone – for example, where every member speaks though the chairman, and where each person is allowed to make his point without being shouted down or abused. For discipline allows the orderly conduct of affairs; it is the means by which decision are implemented – not they way they are made.

 

[Nyani Ngabu]

Bubu,

Weye ulikuwa umetega sikio kwenye simu yangu wakati nalonga na Bob Mkandara mchana huu? Maana ulichoongea hapa ndicho tulichoongea.

Naomba nitoke nje ya kujadili Fikra Bora/Sahihi na kutoa nyongeza kwa hii nukuu hapo juu.

Wakati alipokuwa Mwinyi, tulikuwa na ERP (Economic Recovery Program). Je tulifika wapi na huo mradi wa IMF/WB kutuondolea Umasikini, Ujinga na Maradhi?

Infact Mwalimu alikiri indirectly makosa ya kuwa na mfumo wa Chama kimoja cha Siasa. Yaliyotokea Ulaya mashariki 1988-1991 yalikuwa fundisho tosha, ndio maana kina Mwinyi waliposema Wananchi hawataki Vyama vingi, Nyerere aliwakalia kooni na kwa shingo upande, CCM yake wakakubali mfumo wa vyama vingi.

Kama Nyerere aliondoka miaka 23 iliyopita, je tumeshindwa nini kuwa na Recovery Program katika kipindi cha miaka 23 au 9 tangu atutoke Duniani ili Taifa letu lianze kupata Maendeleo ya kweli yaliyozubaishwa na Nyerere kwa Fikra, Sera na Itikadi zake?

This is why I challenge people to come up with new elements of development if we want to prove Mwalimu was completely wrong na nilichosikia ni jibu kutoka kwa homeboy Kitila kuwa "Lazima CCM ing'olewe Kwanza"!

That may very well do the trick...

 

[Rev.Kishoka]

Haya ni mawazo ya mwalimu kuhusu fikra huru na kwanini hoja yenye nguvu inaposhinda iheshimiwe. Katika haya unaweza kupata mwanga wa mambo kadhaa.

a. Nyerere alikuwa anawashinda watu kwa hoja na wengi walikuwa wanahoja dhaifu.

b. Hadi hivi sasa hatujasikia mtu aliyetoa hoja au fikra yoyote alternative. Hata Kambona baada ya kukimbia na kwa muda wote aliokuwa uhamishoni hakuja na fikra zozote mbadala au kuandika lolote ambalo lilikuwa substantially tofauti na fikra za Mwalimu.

c. Ukiangalia kwenye sehemu hii ya hotuba utaelewa ni wapi tatizo la Watanzania lilipo hasa hususan kwenye sera. Tunataka maendeleo lakini hatutaki kulipa gharama ya maendeleo.

d. Hata leo hii bado matatizo ni yale yale kwamba free debate is threatened na nidhamu ya kazi imepungua. Unaposoma kuhusu "nidhamu" kumbuka wimbo wa JUWATA kuhusu "Nidhamu ya kazi, ni msingi wa mafanikio mema kazini".. Je tunayo discipline kazini au hili wazo la discipline nalo ni la kutupilia mbali?

e. Kuna makosa gani katika mawazo ya Nyerere kuhusu free speech and discipline?

f. Unaposoma kumbuka tuko miaka kama saba tu baada ya uhuru na tunatafuta mwelekeo wa ujenzi wa Taifa letu.

Mwanakijiji,

Gademu Kulaleki! Huyu Mzee alikuwa mchimvi, mkorofi na mtu wa mafumbo kila dakika. The opening sounds contradictory to the descision he made few years after this speech/presentation. But one has to ask himself what were the circumstances that made him change his approach that contradicts his statements?

If I recall, 1964 had 3 major impacts in his thnking as philosopher and politician. Mapinduzi ya Zanzibar, then Muungano and later maasi. Later on Biafra came to place and his visit to China, then came Azimio in 1967.

Knowing the fact that this Binadamu na Maendeleo was written after Azimio, one has to wonder if Azimio meant to take away private ownership as his statements on discipline acknowledges the presence of private sector!

It means that if we work in factory, we have to accept the discipline of that factory. Whether the factory is privately or publicly owned makes no difference; its rules must be adhered to and the people who are in charge of particular operation must be obeyed. Similarly, in hospitals, schools, offices, and so on.

One has brought up the Detention Act as one of his Ubabe, I have to ask which government has never had a Detention Act of some sort in this world? Even Vatican when it feels its clergy are in wrong or contradict the papacy, those who are responsible are censured (Emmanuel Milingo)!

Baada ya Maasi ya 64, Biafra 66, Vurugu 71 including assasination ya Karume, do you expect kuwa na hali ya kusema kila kitu ni shwari?

Nikirudi kwenye hii Fikra Bora ya tatu, Mwalimu had high respect for Minority. Watu kama Malecela na Msuya wasingeweza kudunda miaka yote hiyo huku walikuwa wakifahamika wazi walikuwa na uwezo wa kukoromeana wazi wazi na Mwalimu.

Tatizo ni kule kujengeka kwa Taifa la waoga. Narudia tena, Mwalimu alishindwa kukaripia uonevu wa viongozi na watendaji wake ambao walitumia madaraka vibaya na kufanya Tanzania iwe sawa na millitary state.

Hata kwenda kwake China na mapokeo yake ya Ujamaa, kuna wale ambao walikuwa wamesomea Uchina na Urusi ambao waliamua kuleta ubabe wa ki-Stalin au Mao katika kuhakikisha kuwa Itikadi na Sera za Chama zinafanikiwa kwa nguvu zote!

I fault Mwalimu for speaking on behalf of minorities but he did not stand to defend them enough to be seen as a fair leader.

Yes we have to be respectful and disciplined. What he wrote in 1968 is still valid and applicable in principle and can be practiced by Wananchi wote!

May be I should ask, were these words to complex for our environment in 1968 that "vigogo" wa Serikali na TANU mistook the urge for minority on debate to heed to majority rules? Je huu ndio ulikuwa mwanzo wa kudai huyu si mwenzetu na wale watendaji wakasema "kwa jina la Mwalimu, Mwenyekiti, Raisi, Nyerere" tunakunyang'anya mali kwa kuwa wewe ni Bepari, tunakupeleka jela kwa kuwa unakataa kutii sera, unatengwa kwa kuitwa mchochezi kwa kuwa ulipingana hoja?

Did Kambona, Kassanga Tumbo, Babu, Chipaka, Kassela Bantu fear Mwalimu or his zealotry surbordinates? How did Malecela survive?

 

[William J. Malecela]

Mkuu, Mwalimu kama binadamu hakuwa perfect alikuwa na mapungufu kama binadamu wengine lakini kamwe hatuwezi kumlaumu Mwalimu kwa kila baya lililoifika Tanzania basi lilisababishwa na Mwalimu.

Mkuu Bubu, yote haya tumeyasema, kuhusu mazuri ya Mwalimu, na responsibilities zetu baada ya Mwalimu kujitoa kwenye power,

Labda swali niliweke wazi, ni kwamba nini yalikuwa makosa ya Mwalimu na impact yake kwa taifa, maana ukumbuke pia kuwa Mwinyi, Mkapa, na sasa Muungwana, wote walipewa okay na Mwalimu kuwa marais, kwa hiyo kama kuna problem kwenye uongozi wao ni nani wa kulaumiwa kwanza?

 

[Kuhani]

Tafadhalini mwacheni Mwalimu apumzimke kwa amani na familia yake pia ipate amani kutokana na matendo yake ambayo mengi yalikuwa mazuri kuliko yaliyokuwa mabaya. Mwalimu kamwe hawezi kufananishwa na mafisadi waroho wa utajiri wa haraka haraka akina fisadi Mkapa na marafiki zake. Kama sio Mwalimu leo Tanzania tusingekuwa na vyama vingi, maana waliopewa kazi ya kukusanya maoni ya Watnzania katika kila kona ya nchi walishahitimisha kwamba Watanzania wamevikataa vyama vingi, lakini Mwalimu akasema wakati wa vyama vingi umefika tusifanye makosa ya kuendelea kuwa na chama kimoja. Mwalimu rest in peace~AMEN

Ndugu Bubu;
Ukisema tumwache Mwalimu apumzike, inabidi na wewe upumzike kumtetea, kwa sababu ukianza kumtetea tu na wengine tunaanza kumshitaki, kama Mfisadi na Mtesi wake.

Isitoshe, Nyerere alipo kaburini huko anataka watu wamzungumzie kwa sababu ni mtu wa Kihistoria. Hapana sijaenda makaburini, isipokuwa alisema mwenyewe kabla ya kufa. Aliwahi kuulizwa katika siku zake za mwisho akiwa Marekani - Wabongo wenye kende za kumswalisha Nyerere kama hivi walifungwa - ilikuwaje mawazo yake na Nkurumah kuanzisha Taifa la Afrika yalitoswa na Waafrika. Akajibu hilo jambo wana Historia watajadili, na kwamba yeye alijaribu. Kwa hiyo, hata yeye hataki kufa akasahaulika.

Tukiendelea na mashikata yalioalikwa na utetezi, kama Nyerere alileta vyama vingi ni kwa sababu alikuwa na juto moyoni. Yeye ndiye alivifuta 1965 alipokuja na fikra za Wachina Wekundu. Alikuwa anaogopa yaliyomkuta mwaka 1964 jeshi lilipoona isiwe tabu likaasi. Nyerere alijificha kwenye nyumba ya manyasi Kigamboni, akamtuma Biti Titi akajadiliane na Jeshi na kuongea na Wananchi. (Sikuweka dondoo.) Halafu akaomba msaada wa ulinzi Uingereza. Huku anahubiri kujitegemea.

Soo lilipoisha Bibi Titi akamwambia hizi siasa za Kichina China Mzee hazileti mantiki. Ungedhani atalipa fadhila, basi asivyo kuwa na soni, kamsweka Bibi Titi jela, na nyumba yake kaitaifisha. Ha ha aaaaa! Unasikitika mpaka unacheka.

Mwaka 1982 kidogo yamkute tena. Nyerere akaona isiwe tabu: akaja na Sheria ya Kikangaruu ya 'Preventive Detention Act' inayosema ni hatia kushukiwa!

Unaongelea Vyama Vingi? Nyerere toka lini anajua Demokrasia mjomba?

 

[William J. Malecela]

Ndugu Bubu;
Ukisema tumwache Mwalimu apumzike, inabidi na wewe upumzike kumtetea, kwa sababu ukianza kumtetea tu na wengine tunaanza kumshitaki, kama Mfisadi na Mtesi wake.

Very strong, I love it!

 

[Icadon]

Ndugu Bubu;
Ukisema tumwache Mwalimu apumzike, inabidi na wewe upumzike kumtetea, kwa sababu ukianza kumtetea tu na wengine tunaanza kumshitaki, kama Mfisadi na Mtesi wake.

Isitoshe, Nyerere alipo kaburini huko anataka watu wamzungumzie kwa sababu ni mtu wa Kihistoria. Hapana sijaenda makaburini, isipokuwa alisema mwenyewe kabla ya kufa. Aliwahi kuulizwa katika siku zake za mwisho akiwa Marekani - Wabongo wenye kende za kumswalisha Nyerere kama hivi walifungwa - ilikuwaje mawazo yake na Nkurumah kuanzisha Taifa la Afrika yalitoswa na Waafrika. Akajibu hilo jambo wana Historia watajadili, na kwamba yeye alijaribu. Kwa hiyo, hata yeye hataki kufa akasahaulika.

Tukiendelea na mashikata yalioalikwa na utetezi, kama Nyerere alileta vyama vingi ni kwa sababu alikuwa na juto moyoni. Yeye ndiye alivifuta 1965 alipokuja na fikra za Wachina Wekundu. Alikuwa anaogopa yaliyomkuta mwaka 1964 jeshi lilipoona isiwe tabu likaasi. Nyerere alijificha kwenye nyumba ya manyasi Kigamboni, akamtuma Biti Titi akajadiliane na Jeshi na kuongea na Wananchi. (Sikuweka dondoo.) Halafu akaomba msaada wa ulinzi Uingereza. Huku anahubiri kujitegemea.

Soo lilipoisha Bibi Titi akamwambia hizi siasa za Kichina China Mzee hazileti mantiki. Ungedhani atalipa fadhila, basi asivyo kuwa na soni, kamsweka Bibi Titi jela, na nyumba yake kaitaifisha. Ha ha aaaaa! Unasikitika mpaka unacheka.

Mwaka 1982 kidogo yamkute tena. Nyerere akaona isiwe tabu: akaja na Sheria ya Kikangaruu ya 'Preventive Detention Act' inayosema ni hatia kushukiwa!

Unaongelea Vyama Vingi? Nyerere toka lini anajua Demokrasia mjomba?

KWenye red hapo pamenichekesha sana,

Anyways siasa za kujitegemea zilianza lini Tanzania?

 

[Mzee Mwanakijiji]

duh.. sijui kama hata unajua historia Kuhani Mkuu au umeamua kupotosha watu? one, sheria ya Preventive Detention haikuja mwaka 1982 bali mwaka 1985 na siyo sheria yenyewe bali mabadiliko yake kwani sheria yenyewe ni ya 1962. Na hakuna kitu ndani yake kinachosema kama "kushukiwa ni hatia" huu ni uongo wa wazi na unategemea kwa vile watu hawatachukua muda kuisoma basi wataamini. Not me sire..

 

[Rev.Kishoka]

Tukiendelea na mashikata yalioalikwa na utetezi, kama Nyerere alileta vyama vingi ni kwa sababu alikuwa na juto moyoni. Yeye ndiye alivifuta 1965 alipokuja na fikra za Wachina Wekundu. Alikuwa anaogopa yaliyomkuta mwaka 1964 jeshi lilipoona isiwe tabu likaasi. Nyerere alijificha kwenye nyumba ya manyasi Kigamboni, akamtuma Biti Titi akajadiliane na Jeshi na kuongea na Wananchi. (Sikuweka dondoo.) Halafu akaomba msaada wa ulinzi Uingereza. Huku anahubiri kujitegemea.

Soo lilipoisha Bibi Titi akamwambia hizi siasa za Kichina China Mzee hazileti mantiki. Ungedhani atalipa fadhila, basi asivyo kuwa na soni, kamsweka Bibi Titi jela, na nyumba yake kaitaifisha. Ha ha aaaaa! Unasikitika mpaka unacheka.

Kuhani,

Naona umeongeza chumvi hapa. Wakati wa maasi, siasa ya Ujamaa na kujitegemea ilikuwa haijatangazwa!

 

[Mzee Mwanakijiji]

Kuhani,

Naona umeongeza chumvi hapa. Wakati wa maasi, siasa ya Ujamaa na kujitegemea ilikuwa haijatangazwa!

ndio hivyo ili watu wauamini uongo kwa sababu hakuna anayejua historia...

 

[BAK]

Ndugu Bubu;
Ukisema tumwache Mwalimu apumzike, inabidi na wewe upumzike kumtetea, kwa sababu ukianza kumtetea tu na wengine tunaanza kumshitaki, kama Mfisadi na Mtesi wake.

Isitoshe, Nyerere alipo kaburini huko anataka watu wamzungumzie kwa sababu ni mtu wa Kihistoria. Hapana sijaenda makaburini, isipokuwa alisema mwenyewe kabla ya kufa. Aliwahi kuulizwa katika siku zake za mwisho akiwa Marekani - Wabongo wenye kende za kumswalisha Nyerere kama hivi walifungwa - ilikuwaje mawazo yake na Nkurumah kuanzisha Taifa la Afrika yalitoswa na Waafrika. Akajibu hilo jambo wana Historia watajadili, na kwamba yeye alijaribu. Kwa hiyo, hata yeye hataki kufa akasahaulika.

Tukiendelea na mashikata yalioalikwa na utetezi, kama Nyerere alileta vyama vingi ni kwa sababu alikuwa na juto moyoni. Yeye ndiye alivifuta 1965 alipokuja na fikra za Wachina Wekundu. Alikuwa anaogopa yaliyomkuta mwaka 1964 jeshi lilipoona isiwe tabu likaasi. Nyerere alijificha kwenye nyumba ya manyasi Kigamboni, akamtuma Biti Titi akajadiliane na Jeshi na kuongea na Wananchi. (Sikuweka dondoo.) Halafu akaomba msaada wa ulinzi Uingereza. Huku anahubiri kujitegemea.

Soo lilipoisha Bibi Titi akamwambia hizi siasa za Kichina China Mzee hazileti mantiki. Ungedhani atalipa fadhila, basi asivyo kuwa na soni, kamsweka Bibi Titi jela, na nyumba yake kaitaifisha. Ha ha aaaaa! Unasikitika mpaka unacheka.

Mwaka 1982 kidogo yamkute tena. Nyerere akaona isiwe tabu: akaja na Sheria ya Kikangaruu ya 'Preventive Detention Act' inayosema ni hatia kushukiwa!

Unaongelea Vyama Vingi? Nyerere toka lini anajua Demokrasia mjomba?

huh!? 😕

Sasa nyie mkimwacha apumzike katika amani ya milele bila kumjadili hapa, kutakuwa na haja gani tena ya mimi kumtetea? 😕

Nimesema Mwalimu kama binadamu hakuwa perfect, alifanya makosa hata mwenyewe alipokuwa hai aliyasema.

Hivi mnaweza kufananisha mabaya ya Nyerere na ufisadi alioufanya Mkapa alipokuwa madarakani? 😕
Hivi mnaweza kufananisha mabaya ya Mwalimu na uwezo finyu aliokuwa nao msanii katika maamuzi mbali mbali kuhusiana na kashfa nzito dhidi ya mafisadi? 😕

Mobutu alikuwa anafuata siasa za kibepari na rafiki mkubwa wa nchi za magharibi, hata Reagan aliwahi kutamka kwamba kama Marekani ina rafikii mkubwa katika Afrika hakuna mwingine kama Mobutu. Pamoja na nchi yake kuwa na rasilimali chungu nzima aliwafanyia nini wananchi wake kama siyo ufisadi wa hali ya juu!

Narudia tena NYERERE HAKUWA PERFECT LAKINI ALIYOYAFANYA KWA TANZANIA NA AFRIKA NI MAKUBWA MNO NDIO MAANA ANAKUMBUKWA SANA SIO TU NA WATANZANIA BALI WAAFRIKA WENGI WALIOPATA NAFASI YA KUMFAHAMU. Na MWalimu kamwe hawezi kulinganishwa na fisadi Mkapa au huyu msanii ambaye ana uwezo mdogo sana katika kuongoza nchi.

Ufisadi kama huu wa kukupua mabilioni ungefanyika wakati wa Nyerere basi hawa angewasweka wahusika wote lupango na kuamuru wafunguliwe mashtaka mara moja. Wala usingesikia mkuu wa polisi anatamka eti tukiwataja wahusika wa ufisadi pale BoT basi nchi 'italipuka'. Mwalimu hakuwa msanii bwana au mbabaishaji. Kashfa nzito kama hizi angezungumza na wananchi wake na kuchukua maamuzi ambayo yangewafurahisha Watanzania walio wengi.

Hivi kuna dhambi kama serikali yako inataka kupinduliwa na wewe kwenda kuomba msaada ili upambane na wavamizi? 😕
Kumbuka Tanganyika ilikuwa bado nchi changa ambayo ilipata uhuru miaka mitatu tu iliyopita na Tanzania ilikuwa hata mwaka haijatimiza hivyo haikuwa na jeshi lililoimarika kupambana na wavamizi.

Kama hamtaki kuyaona mazuri ya Mwalimu na kuyaona mabaya tu, basi mtajiju, lakini Watanzania wengi tutamkubuka kwa mazuri mengi aliyoifanyia Tanzania na Afrika kwa ujumla.

 

[KadaMpinzani]

fwacts za Kuhani zipo "shaky kidogo," lakini hiyo haikupi wewe mandate ya kutoa blanket statement kama hiyo!!!

kama Nyerere vile, watu usiokubaliana nao basi hawajui na ni wajinga.......!![/QUOTE]

na hii inaudhi, lakini ndio tulivyo !

 

[Mzee Mwanakijiji]

fwacts za Kuhani zipo "shaky kidogo," lakini hiyo haikupi wewe mandate ya kutoa blanket statement kama hiyo!!!

kama Nyerere vile, watu usiokubaliana nao basi hawajui na ni wajinga.......!!

Uongo unaweza kuuita "shaky kidogo" lakini haiondoi ukweli kuwa ni uongo. Kusema "detention act inasema kushuku ni hatia" siyo shaky is pure lie na siyo kutokukubaliana. Kutokukubaliana na uongo siyo kutofautiana kimawazo ni kutofautiana na uongo. Nikifanya kitu cha kijinga ukiniita mjinga hautakuwa umetofautiana na mimi, utakuwa umesema ukweli.

 

[BAK]

Very strong, I love it!

Ndugu Bubu;
Ukisema tumwache Mwalimu apumzike, inabidi na wewe upumzike kumtetea, kwa sababu ukianza kumtetea tu na wengine tunaanza kumshitaki, kama Mfisadi na Mtesi wake.

Nyerere fisadi!? Tangu lini? Na ufisadi upi alioufanya kwa Tanzania na Watanzania? 😕
Hebu fafanua!

 

[Rev.Kishoka]

fwacts za Kuhani zipo "shaky kidogo," lakini hiyo haikupi wewe mandate ya kutoa blanket statement kama hiyo!!!

kama Nyerere vile, watu usiokubaliana nao basi hawajui na ni wajinga.......!!

Unajitwika Ujinga na kutokujua mambo mwenyewe kwa kushindwa kujibu hoja kwa kina!

 

[Kuhani]

Nyerere fisadi!? Tangu lini? Na ufisadi upi alioufanya kwa Tanzania na Watanzania? 😕
Hebu fafanua!

Kabla hatujanza kujadili, au kuumiza mishipa ya kichwa kubishana, kama Nyerere ni Fisadi ama sio, naomba unipe aini ya neno Fisadi ili tujue tunaongelea nini hasa.

Masahihisho
Nyerere alikuwa anahubiri Uhuru wakati anaomba ulinzi Uingereza. Katika tundiko langu la mwisho niliandika kimakosa kwamba alikuwa anahubiri Kujitegemea.

Pia, Nyerere aliibua Sheria ya ‘Preventive Detention Act’ ya 1962 kufunga watu mwaka 1982. Niliandika kimakosa kwamba alikuja nayo mwaka 1982.

Sheria hii ya Kikangaruu inasema Rais anaweza kuamuru mtu afungwe bila mashitaka kama akidhani anahatarisha usalama. Ukishukiwa unafungwa. Nimekosea nini nikisema chini ya Sheria hii kushukiwa ni hatia?