African Dictators meet in Addis Ababa

[manucho]

ICC ni mkombozi wetu sisi wananchi wa Africa otherwise tutachinjwa na hawa madikteta kuliko kuku.
Ukiwasikiliza Wakenya wanasema hawatendewi haki na hii inaweza kumtokea kiongozi mwingine wa Africa, kwahiyo hapa ni kwamba wao wafanye mauwaji then watafute support ya kuungwa mkono kwamba hawakufanya mauwaji. Respect ipi unayotaka? Au kuuwa wananchi wako halafu dunia ikushangilie utunukiwe na nishani ya Nobel kwa kuwa muuwaji mzuri??

Kenyatta na Ruto wanatakiwa kufungwa ili iwe fundisho kwa viongozi wa Africa.

 

[mshunami]

Mtu kama Raisi wa Sudan ambaye alipeleka kikosi cha Janjaweed Darfur kuuwa watu wote weusi na badala yake kuleta Waarabu waishi pale kwa kuwa yasemekana kuna mafuta, bado anatetewa na wenzake maraisi wa afrika! Kazi kwelikweli!

 

[babukijana]

Viongozi wa Afrika wanashangaza sana.wanafanya makosa kisha wanataka wawe juu ya sheria.nashangaa hawa jirani EAC wameitenga Tanzania,ila wanaihitaji tz kuwapa support.Kikwete nae alienda huko kufanya nini sasa.

 

[Nkamu]

Mkuu nakuunga mkono sana! Ingawa uwepo wa hii mahakama ya ICC itasaidia kuwazuia viongozi kutumia madaraka yao vibaya wawapo madarakani lakini tumeshuhudia mahakama hii ikiwashughulikia viongozi pekee wa nchi za Afrika! Mbona Bush hajashtakiwa? Blair na Sarkozy? Kwa vitendo vyao vya kuvamia Iraq kwa kisingizio cha matumizi ya kemikali lakin baadae wakamuua Sadam ikafahamika baaadae kuwa hapakuwepo na chemical weapons! Wameua raia wengi sana wasio na hatia! Kwanini hawa hawafikishwi kule ICC? Kwanini Kenyatta, Rutto, Albashir, Laurent Bagbo na yule wa Liberia?

Mimi siwatetei hao viongozi wasishitakiwe kwa makosa waliotenda but kwann Afrika tu? Mimi ningetegemea viongozi wa AU, wangeshinikiza usawa na haki itendeke kwa nchi zote vinginevyo ni sawa wakijitoa!

Napenda kutofautiana kidogo na wewe. Mimi naona si sawa kuwafananisha akina Bush na hawa viongozi wa Africa. Bush hajaua watu wake kwa sababu wanatafuta haki. Bush ameua raia wake na raia wa Iraq kwa kupigania amani ya ulimwengu kwa kuhofia kwamba kiburi cha Saddam kinatokana na silaha za kemikali. Hawa viongozi wa Afrika wanaua raia wao ili waendelee kukaa madarakani au wanaua ili wapate madaraka. Na madaraka hayo ni kwa ajili yao na familia zao na si kwa ajili ya wananchi. Hivyo hawa wanastahili kabisa kwenda ICC.

Vilevile ikumbukwe kwamba miongoni mwa viongozi wa kwanza kwenda ICC alikuwa rais wa Romania bwana Czesco (sijui kama spelling ziko sawa) na aliyefuata ni bwana Milosovic, hao wote sio waafrika!

 

[Maswala]

By this AU resolution, we should expect more constitutional amendments to allow rulers to stay in power the rest of their lives as cover against ICC, should they commit crimes against humanity!

Sent from my BlackBerry 9780 using JamiiForums

 

[Kiwete]

Nahisi sasa viongozi wetu wanahitaji kuombewa.Naomba UN na EU wawawekee vikwazo viongozi wote watakaodhabikia move ya kupunguza madaraka ya ICC kwa nchi za Africa.Japo sishabikii ukoloni mamboleo,sisi wanyonge nani atatusrmea?.Hebu angalia kifo cha mwangosi,mabomu kwenye mikutano ya amani kabisa na watu kufa,government sponsored religious killings like in zanzbar and Geita n.k.
Wahusika hawawezi jishtaki wenyewe na ndo mwanzo wa kulea mijitu kama bokassa,nguema na iddi amin.
LHRC nendeni haraka African Court of Justice kupinga move yoyote ya kujitoa ICC kwa TZ nchi nyingine bila mpango mbadala wa kuhakikisha viongozi wanaochinja raia wao wanaweza kushughulikiwa ipasavyo.

 

[mbalila]

Mnatumiwa na mabeberu kuja hapa JF,mnafurahia Viongozi wenu kudhalilishwa na mfumo wa kikoloni? Blair na Bush wali ua maelufu ya watu hawakwenda hata ICC! Marekani haija saini hata mkataba wa Rome! Enyi waafrika wajinga mna ona kama jambo la kawaida viongozi wenu kudhalilishwa??? Mmelogwa na nani enyi kizazi masikini wa fikra na kutambua utu na thamani yenu????
CC CHUAKACHARA

Ndiyo mkuu,
tatizo la sisi waafrika hatujitambui ,nani anajua kwanini marekani hajasaini mkataba wa Rome wakati wao ndiyo wanaohubili usawa na haki za binadamu na utawara bora mimi naungana na viongozi wa Afrika. Big UP

 

[bona]

rais aliye madarakani asishtakiwe sasa ina maana watu kama kina kagame ambao wanataka wakae madarakani mpaka wafe hawatapata nafasi ya kushtakiwa ICC kwa yale wanayoyafanya kule kivu? bashir wa sudan ambaye pia ana kila dalili ya kua kama kina kagame na museven wa kukaa milele atashtakiwa lini? kenyata ina maana ndo kwanza yuko kipindi cha kwanza atatumia jitihada za ziada arudi kipindi cha 2 ili kesi yake iendelee kusogezwa mbele ina maana kesi yake itaanza sikilizwa miaka 15 toka alipofanya huo uhalifu hii ni haki kweli???

 

[Kashishi]

Experts fault AU resolution on ICC


By Songa wa Songa The Citizen Reporter
Posted Thursday, October 17 2013 at 00:00

IN SUMMARY
“If elections on the continent are anything to go by, then most of those who endorsed the decision are de facto and not de jure Heads of State”


Dar es Salaam. A resolution passed last weekend by African Union (AU) to shield sitting African leaders from prosecution by the International Criminal Court (ICC) has been greeted with strong criticism from lawyers and international relations experts.

After the resolution made in the Ethiopian capital Addis Ababa, the AU wrote to the United Nations Security Council, notifying it of their decision and asking the body to grant the same by directing the ICC to adjourn all cases against African leaders until they complete serving their term in office.

Speaking to The Citizen this week, the doyens observed that AU’s argument that the ICC appears to be targeting African leaders does not hold water. The desperate attempt to save Kenyan President Uhuru Kenyatta, his deputy William Ruto and Sudan president Omar Al-Bashir is more than just that, they said. The leaders are shaken by the Bashir-Kenyatta-Ruto precedent and have found it wise to protect themselves in advance, they argue.

“The argument by AU that all cases be adjourned until the accused leaders complete their term amounts to justice delayed, which means justice denied,” said Prof Chris Maina of the Faculty of Law at the University of Dar es Salaam.

“Yet we have elected leaders in Africa who wish to serve for life, and some monarchs,” he said.

He said the move has, consequently, put in question the integrity of African leaders whose countries willingly adopted the Rome statute but are now backing off in a style that will give room to a culture of impunity in the continent.

Another lawyer, Prof Abdallah Safari, criticised the notion that the Hague-based court was biased, asserting that the main reason African leaders had come to such a decision was fear since most, if not all of them had come to power and wish to maintain it through some degree of irregularity.

“If elections on the continent are anything to go by, then most of those who endorsed the decision are de facto and not de jure Heads of State” he said.

Agreed is Dr Kitojo Wetengere of the Mozambique-Tanzania Centre for Foreign Relations who saw the decision as something prompted by fear unleashed by a deep sense of guilt. “The argument that African leaders are targeted and Western leaders are not is very weak; it is like justifying misdeeds because other suspects are free,” he said.

Source: TheCitizen Newspaper.

 

[dudus]

...

After the resolution made in the Ethiopian capital Addis Ababa, the AU wrote to the United Nations Security Council, notifying it of their decision and asking the body to grant the same by directing the ICC to adjourn all cases against African leaders until they complete serving their term in office.

...

Azimio la ajabu sana hili.

Yaani mtuhumiwa wa uhalifu aachwe hadi amalize muda wake wa utumishi kisa kwa kuwa ni rais. Na wengine ndio kabisa hawatakaa "wamalize" huo muda wao, kwanza wanaweza kufariki wakiwa madarakani; pili watang'ang'ania hizo nafasi ikibidi hata kubadili katiba zao.

Pia kuna hatari kubwa ninayoiona hapo kwenye underlined; mtuhumiwa (rais) atahakikisha MASHAHIDI WOTE WANATOWEKA "before completing his term". So, tutegemee "kupotea" kusiko kwa kawaida kwa baadhi ya wananchi endapo rais aliyepo madarakani ni mtuhumiwa wa ICC.

Sikubaliani na hili azimio.

 

[Lunyungu]

Miafrika bwana .Mambo ya haki za watu wao hayataki kuomba omba na kuuza nchi zao wako tayari.Wanatumia vibaya madaraka leo wanaona moto .

 

[Kashishi]

Azimio la ajabu sana hili.

Yaani mtuhumiwa wa uhalifu aachwe hadi amalize muda wake wa utumishi kisa kwa kuwa ni rais. Na wengine ndio kabisa hawatakaa "wamalize" huo muda wao, kwanza wanaweza kufariki wakiwa madarakani; pili watang'ang'ania hizo nafasi ikibidi hata kubadili katiba zao.

Pia kuna hatari kubwa ninayoiona hapo kwenye underlined; mtuhumiwa (rais) atahakikisha MASHAHIDI WOTE WANATOWEKA "before completing his term". So, tutegemee "kupotea" kusiko kwa kawaida kwa baadhi ya wananchi endapo rais aliyepo madarakani ni mtuhumiwa wa ICC.

Sikubaliani na hili azimio.

Mkakati wenyewe ni kwamba AU inampa muda Kenyatta kuhakikisha ndani ya mwaka mmoja ameshateketeza mashahidi wote. Hiyo ndio maana yake kuu. Na kuwa wamesha ikongoroa kesi yenyewe. Kwani mpka sasa wamesha wasambaratisha mashahidi chungu mzima wengine kwa kupotea bila kujulikana na wengine kuhongwa au kutishwa kuuliwa familia zao na hatimaye wajiengua kama mashahidi wa ICC.

Kwa ufupi viongozi wetu wa Kiafrika ni wabinafsi na ni watu wasiokuwa na maono. Wameishia kuwa mizigo kwa wananchi wanaowaongoza. Kwani huwezi kutegemea mtu achome mafuta ya jet kutoka Dar au Joberg kwenda Adis Ababa kwa siku moja na delegation yake kwenda kujadili non sense kama hii. Nazipongeza nchi za Botswana na Tunisia ambazo hazikutaka ytoka mwanzo hata kusikia upuu*zi huu.

 

[VUVUZELA]

More than 20 African countries helped to found it. Of the 108 nations that initially joined the ICC, 30 were African. Five of the court's 18 judges are African, as is the vice-president. The chief prosecutor, who has huge power over which cases are brought forward, is from Africa. The ICC is literally Africa's court.

 

[BabuK]

Poor African Leadership.

 

[2013]

sikubaliani na mawazo ya nchi za kiafrika kutaka kujiondoa katika mahakama ya kimataifa. nchi zetu bado changa na demokrasia bado inalawitiwa na kubakwa kila siku. viongozi wetu wanaweza kuvuruga amani ama kuua jamii fulani kwa misingi ya dini, siasa, ukabila ama rasilimali. ni wakati wa wao kuja kuhojiwa na mahakama ambayo tunaamini si rahisi kutoa rushwa. ikiwa ushahidi wa kuwatia hatiani upo.
swala la kuwa inatumika kwa weusi ni hoja dhaifu kwakuwa nchi zilijiunga kwa ridhaa zao. japo nampenda kenyata lakini naunga mkono akipelekwa mahakama ya kimataifa kujibu tuhuma zinazomkabili.
pia mhalifu sio lazima atoke madarakani ndipo ashtakiwee.
walikuwepo wahalifu kama milosevic, Taylor ambao walishtakiwa na haki kutolewa,
viongozi wetu waache kutu-brainwash wakati wanajulikana kwa kubadilika kama kinyonga.
hata kama kikwete atakutwa alikuwa nyuma ya hii migogoro ya udini, na ikifika wakati watu wanao ushahidi usio na shaka na wakiona nguvu zake zimekwisha basi wanauhuru wa kwenda kimshitaki ili ajibu tuhuma za kuhujumu wananchi wa tanzania.
uzoefu unaonyesha viongozi wetu wanaweza kutumia kisingizio cha uzalendo kufunika maovuyao na kuenezapropaganda zao, kama ambapo swala la mapanki lilivyotumika kuwaaminisha watanzania kwamba hatuli wakati uhalisia hauko hivyo.:yield:

 

[Horseshoe Arch]

Kama mahakama hizi ziliundwa kwa ajili ya viongozi wote naunga mkono ila kama ni kwa ajili ya waafrika tu let em perish...haiwezekani kuanzia kuundwa kwake ni Africa tu...hao weupe, wawili watatu waliingia tu kubalance upepo! Bush ametenda uhalifu nkubwa mara 8 ya Taylor but look what they have done...

 

[Bukyanagandi]

Azimio la ajabu sana hili.Yaani mtuhumiwa wa uhalifu aachwe hadi amalize muda wake wa utumishi kisa kwa kuwa ni rais. Na wengine ndio kabisa hawatakaa "wamalize" huo muda wao, kwanza wanaweza kufariki wakiwa madarakani; pili watang'ang'ania hizo nafasi ikibidi hata kubadili katiba zao.Pia kuna hatari kubwa ninayoiona hapo kwenye underlined; mtuhumiwa (rais) atahakikisha MASHAHIDI WOTE WANATOWEKA "before completing his term". So, tutegemee "kupotea" kusiko kwa kawaida kwa baadhi ya wananchi endapo rais aliyepo madarakani ni mtuhumiwa wa ICC.Sikubaliani na hili azimio.

Mkuu mimi sioni kama barua ambayo Viongozi wa Africa wanataka kuwasilishwa UN kama haitaishia kwenye trash can, Dunia nzima imekwisha shitukia mbinu za baadhi ya viongozi wa Kiafrica waharifu na wapenda madaraka kupindukia, hapa wengi wao wana gang up kwa kuwa wanajuwa nao wana madhambi yao, hivyo the Hague inaweza kuwa halali yao siku za usoni ni hilo tu, sio kwamba wanawaonea huruma/watetea wakina Rutto na Mwenzake - kinacho fanyika pale ni mchezo wa kuhigiza tu.Mambo mengine yanashangaza sana - kabla ya Rutto na Kenyatta kuingia madarakani walikuwa recorded kwenye kanda za sauti na Video wakisema wako tayari kwenda the Hague kujitetea, ikumbukwe walishtakiwa kama Rutto na Kenyatta na sio Rais na makamu/Waziri mkuu wake, si hilo tu hata Watu wenye hekima zao waliwaonya wapiga kura kutumia busara katika uchanguzi wao, wakichagua watu wanaotuhumiwa kwa makosa ya jinai basi wategemee kwamba muda wao mwingi utapotea katika kusikiliza kesi, na hakuna ambaye anaweza kutabiri hukumu itachukuwa mkondo gani, sina shaka raia wengi walizingatia ushauri huo - tatizo likawa si nani alipigaji kura bali ni nani alihesabu kura - wakaweka msemo wa dikteita wa Taifa la URUSI ya zamani kwenye MATENDO 4 a reason - sasa hivi wamebadirisha kauli wanasema huwezi kushtaki Rais aliye madarakani that means vurugu zote za matokeo ya kura shabaha yake ni kujenga mazingira ya kuwahokoa watuhumiwa kwa visingizio vya kitoto nayo ni: Wako madarakani hawawezi kushtakiwa!! Wanaogopa kitu gani? Kama hawana makosa kwa nini hawataki kwenda kujitete? Kama leo hii Dunia nzima inawatafuta magaidi walio husika na vifo vya watu 67 kwenye supermarket nchini Kenya, inakuwaje Kenya hiyo hiyo na baadhi ya Viongozi wa Africa wanataka kuwakingia kifua watuhimiwa walio husika na vifo vya Raia wa Kenya zaidi ya elfu moja na ushee na wengine zaidi ya 300K. wanaendelea kuishi kwenye makambi ya makeshift mpaka leo - Viongozi wa Africa wanataka kutueleza nini? Kwamba damu za Foreigners na a few Kenyans waliopoteza maisha yao hivi juzi juzi kwenye Supermarket damu yao is more precious kuliko damu ya Wakenya elfu moja na ushee waliokufa kwenye machafuko ya 2008/9! Kwa bahati mbaya baadhi ya Viongozi wetu wa Kiafrica save Botswana hilo hawalioni kabisa, as far as they are concern ma Rais na Viongozi wengine ni wa maana zaidi, raia wa nchi zao ni expendable.

 

[Synthesizer]

Nafurahi kuona kuna watu wengine wameliona hili. Nililisema katika thread nikiuliza yafuatayo;

• ICC ifanyeje basi, pale raisi dikteta na muuajiyuko katika nchi ambayo katiba yake haina ukomo wa kugombea uraisi (kamaZimbabwe, Uganda nk)? Je, ICC isubiri hadi huyo raisi atakapokufa ndioimfungulie mashitaka?
• Je, kwa kutaka maraisi waliopo madarakaniwasifunguliwe mashitaka ICC, maraisi wa Afrika watakuwa tayari pia kuhakikishakatiba za nchi zote Afrika zina ukomo wa vipindi vya uraisi, viwili visivyozidimiaka mitano kila kimoja?
• Je, ikiwa maraisi wa Afrika wanataka raisialiyepo madarakani asifunguliwe mashitaka ICC, watakubali kwamba mtu yeyotemwenye tuhuma za mauaji asiruhusiwe kugombea uraisi katika nchi yeyote, eidhakabla hajawa raisi au kutogombea muhula mwingine ikiwa yeye ni raisi tayari?(kwa mantiki hii Kenyatta asingegombea uraisi Kenya kwa kuwa alikuwa na tuhumatayari, au asiruhusiwe kugombea uraisi awamu ya pili)

https://www.jamiiforums.com/kenyan-politics/538306-kenyatta-na-maraisi-wa-afrika-kutokukubali-kufikishwa-icc-ni-double-standard.html

 

[TUJITEGEMEE]

....
Pia kuna hatari kubwa ninayoiona hapo kwenye underlined; mtuhumiwa (rais) atahakikisha MASHAHIDI WOTE WANATOWEKA "before completing his term". So, tutegemee "kupotea" kusiko kwa kawaida kwa baadhi ya wananchi endapo rais aliyepo madarakani ni mtuhumiwa wa ICC.

Sikubaliani na hili azimio.

Kukosa umakini wa ICC, kuonyesha upendeleo wa Wazi kwa viongozi wa mabara mengine waliofanya makosa kama waliyofanya viongozi wa kiafrika na mengine kama hayo ndiyo hasa yameifanya ICC ikose credibility miongoni mwa nchi za kiafrika.

Kwa hiyo mpaka hapo kitakapopatikana chombo huru cha kufanya shughuli hii... ndipo uhalali wa kuwashitaki viongozi hawa wakiafrika utakapoonekana, lakini kwa ICC ya sasa naunga mkono azimio la AU.

 

[nngu007]

Desmond Tutu. FILE
By Desmond Tutu

Posted Saturday, October 12 2013 at 11:11
IN SUMMARY
Leaving the ICC would be a tragedy for Africa for three reasons.

• First, without justice, countries can attack their neighbours or minorities in their own countries with impunity.
• Second, without justice there can be no peace.
• Third, as Africa finds its voice in world affairs, it should be strengthening justice and the rule of law, not undermining it.

African leaders behind the move to extract the continent from the jurisdiction of the International Criminal Court are effectively seeking a licence to kill, maim and oppress their people without consequences.

They are saying African leaders should not allow the interests of the people to get in the way of their personal ambitions. Being held to account interferes with their ability to act with impunity. Those who get in their way should remain faceless and voiceless. They are arguing that the golden rule of reciprocity should not apply to them. And nor should any legal system.

But they know that they cannot say these things in public, so they say that the ICC is racist.

At first glance, when one tallies the number of African leaders versus European and North American leaders prosecuted by the court, their argument appears as if it might be plausible. When one considers the facts, however, one quickly realises that the number of Africans put on trial is an indictment of leadership and democracy in some countries, not of the court.

When thousands of people are murdered and displaced in any country, one would hope that country’s systems of justice would kick in to right the wrongs. But when that country is unwilling or unable to dispense justice, who should represent the interests of the victims?

Those accused of crimes proclaim their innocence and vilify the ICC as racist and unjust. The eight matters brought before the court were initiated by African countries and their leaders. There was no witch-hunt or imposition, the judges and investigators were invited in.

So while the rhetoric of leaders at the AU may play both the race and colonial cards, the facts are clear. Far from being a so-called “white man’s witch hunt,” the ICC could not be more African if it tried.

More than 20 African countries helped to found it. Of the 108 nations that initially joined the ICC, 30 were African. Five of the court’s 18 judges are African, as is the vice-president. The chief prosecutor, who has huge power over which cases are brought forward, is from Africa. The ICC is literally Africa’s court.

Leaving the ICC would be a tragedy for Africa for three reasons. First, without justice, countries can attack their neighbors or minorities in their own countries with impunity.

Two years ago, when the warlord Thomas Lubanga was arrested to face charges of conscripting child soldiers, the threat of the ICC undermined his support from other militia. In Cote D’Ivoire, since Laurent Gbagbo was taken to face justice in The Hague, the country has rebuilt. Without it, there would be no brake on the worst excesses of criminals. And these violent leaders continue to plague Africa. Perpetrators of violence must not be allowed to go free.

Second, without justice there can be no peace. In South Africa, it has taken a long process of truth and reconciliation for the wounds of apartheid to begin to heal. In Kenya, the post-election violence wounds will take a long time to heal. Put simply, where justice and order is not restored, there can be no healing, leaving violence and hatred ticking like a bomb in the corner.

Third, as Africa finds its voice in world affairs, it should be strengthening justice and the rule of law, not undermining it. Everyone has a duty to adhere to these principles; they are part of global collective responsibility, not a menu we can choose from as and when it suits us.

Right now, thousands of people from across the planet are joining a campaign hosted by Avaaz, an international advocacy organisation calling on Africa’s leaders to stay in the ICC and stand behind international justice and what it means for so many vulnerable citizens everywhere. They represent our global commitment to working together to make the future brighter and safer for the next generations.

The alternatives are too painful: Revenge, like what happened in Rwanda, Kosovo, Bosnia; or blanket amnesty, a national commitment to amnesia like what happened in Chile. The only way a country can deal with its past is to confront it.

We need loud voices in Addis Ababa to deliver the message of the world’s people, to shout down those that want us to do nothing. At the front, we need the heavyweight champions of Africa – South Africa and Nigeria – to exercise their leadership and stop those that do not like the rules from attempting to re-write them.


If Africa’s democracies truly believe in justice and the rule of law, they must stand up against this attempt by their least democratic brothers and sisters to undermine those values.

The Addis meeting is a contest between justice and injustice. Far from a fight between Africa and the West, this is a fight within Africa, for the soul of the continent.


Desmond Tutu is a Nobel laureate.