Kiranga
Platinum Member
- Jan 29, 2009
- 86,012
- 146,424
Ni imani katika framework gani?
Hata wewe kukubali kwamba upo ni imani. Inawezekana haupo ni software katika computer tu kama The Matrix.
Ni imani katika framework gani?Kukubali kuwa hakuna mungu ni imani,kwani hapa tusichoelewana ni kipi?
Hujathibitisha kwamba Mungu yupo bado.Ndiyo umeeleza nini hapo?
Mie nimesema wanaosema hakuna mungu wakishindwa kujibu swali husema kushindwa kwao kujibu haifanyi kuwa mungu yupo,ila wao wanataka imani zengine wawajibu kila swali watakalojisikia kuuliza.
Watu wamekuwa wapinga mungu kwa sababu ya kukosa majibu kwenye imani zao,lakini kwenye imani ya kuamini hakuna mungu hata kama watakosa majibu bado wataendelea kuamini tu kuwa hakuna mungu.
Hao wazazi wako nao walitengezwa na wazazi wao,huyo mzazi wa kwanza wa hao wazazi wa wazazi wako,alitengenezwa na nani?PUMBA TUPU.
Unaweza kuthibitisha Roho ipo na kuitest?
Mimi nilizaliwa kwa wazazi wangu hakuna mtu aliyenitengeneza.
Hizo ulizotaja ni sifa za viumbe hai siyo viashiria vya utumwa.
Mbona dini ikiguswa mnatokwa povu sana?.....ndio maslahi yenu eh?
You are wrong ! Because you think you intellectual capacity is without limit sir.If complexity must be designed, and the designer must be more complex, then the designer must also be designed.
By your logic, God must be designed, his designer must be designed and so on and so forth endlessly.
In this setup, there is no God.
The fact that my thinking has limitation does not prove God exists.You are wrong ! Because you think you intellectual capacity is without limit sir.
Look:-
1) with your naked eyes you can not see with clarity anything at a distance of 10km
2) the same with your hearing capacity
3) the same with your smelling
4)Then how do u think u can think without limitation.
What we think as our thinking department in our body system is a free given matter.and I believe not given at 100% level.
Mimi niulize aliyenizaa, nami nitakujibu ni wazazi wangu.Kama unataka kujua nani aliwazaa wazazi wangu hadi yule mzazi wa kwanza, inabidi ukawaulize wao.Hao wazazi wako nao walitengezwa na wazazi wao,huyo mzazi wa kwanza wa hao wazazi wa wazazi wako,alitengenezwa na nani?
That fact of yours is immaterial that the worldly calamities are a proofThe fact that my thinking has limitation does not prove God exists.
In fact, the vast amount of ignorance the human mind possesses shows an all knowing, all loving and all capable God does not exist.
Why?
Human ignorance causes so much suffering. Unnecessary war, slavery dictatorships etc.
An all knowing, all capable and all loving God could not have created a universe in which such ignorance is possible, that would have contradicted Gods very nature.
We see such ignorance.
Therefore, such a God does not exist.
That fact of yours is immaterial, that the worldly calamities are a proof of the absence of God !The fact that my thinking has limitation does not prove God exists.
In fact, the vast amount of ignorance the human mind possesses shows an all knowing, all loving and all capable God does not exist.
Why?
Human ignorance causes so much suffering. Unnecessary war, slavery dictatorships etc.
An all knowing, all capable and all loving God could not have created a universe in which such ignorance is possible, that would have contradicted Gods very nature.
We see such ignorance.
Therefore, such a God does not exist.
If God's primary nature is goodness, you would not want to dismiss evil as immaterial.That fact of yours is immaterial that the worldly calamities are a proof
That fact of yours is immaterial, that the worldly calamities are a proof of the absence of God !
What about the fortunes? What do they prove? The existence of God?
Na wanaoamini Mungu ni hivyo,wameamini kwa kupitia kwa wazazi wao,na wazazi kwa kupitia wazazi wao,mpaka ikafikia kizazi cha sasa kilichopo.Mimi niulize aliyenizaa, nami nitakujibu ni wazazi wangu.Kama unataka kujua nani aliwazaa wazazi wangu hadi yule mzazi wa kwanza, inabidi ukawaulize wao.
Kwanini hutaki kujua aliyewazaa wazazi wako hadi mzazi wa kwanza?Mimi niulize aliyenizaa, nami nitakujibu ni wazazi wangu.Kama unataka kujua nani aliwazaa wazazi wangu hadi yule mzazi wa kwanza, inabidi ukawaulize wao.
Kwanini hutaki kujua aliyewazaa wazazi wako hadi mzazi wa kwanza?
Hii mada imefika hadi ukurasa wa 80+ bila ya kupatikana majibu ya kutosha.Na wanaoamini Mungu ni hivyo,wameamini kwa kupitia kwa wazazi wao,na wazazi kwa kupitia wazazi wao,mpaka ikafikia kizazi cha sasa kilichopo.
Inaonesha ujumbe umefika.Hujathibitisha kwamba Mungu yupo bado.
Hilo ndilo la muhimu.
Kabla ya kuthibitisha Mungu yupo, lolote utakalosema litaandamwa na ukweli kwamba hujathibitisha kwamba Mungu yupo.
Imani yako ikishindwa kujibu maswali inasema kushindwa kujibu maswali haifanyi kuwepo mungu.Hii mada imefika hadi ukurasa wa 80+ bila ya kupatikana majibu ya kutosha.
Ukweli ni kwamba hata nyie wenyewe hamna uhakika ama hamjui kama kweli Mungu yupo.
Mkijitafakari wenyewe kwa utulivu binafsi halafu mchunguze ni nini hasa mnachokiabudu, mtagundua kuna maswali mengi yanayoibuka na pengine kuwaacha njia panda.
Waliomuumba Mungu kwenye mawazo yao walishajifia zamani wamewarithisha watu hii dhana ya Mungu na kuieneza kwa watu.
Mungu + dini ni tamaduni za watu, ni kama mababu wa Afrika walivyokuwa na dhana potofu kuwa miti, miamba, ama milima ndiyo Mungu.Waliiabudu na kuitolea sadaka, waliitukuwa pamoja na mizimu ya watangulizi wao.
Vivyo hivyo kwa Miungu ya kwenye Bibilia, ni utamaduni wa waisrael(kama zilivyo tamaduni za makabila ya Afrika), wana mizimu yao kama kina Abraham, Isaka, na Yakobo.Ni watu waliokufa zamani lakini mizimu yao inatukuzwa kwenye makabila yao na kuenezwa nje ya makabila yao.
Kinachofanya hizi mila za wayahudi(dini) kuendelea kuwepo na kuenezwa ni ubabe na dharau kwa mila nyingine.Walizieneza hadi Ulaya kisha Afrika.Waliozipinga waliteswa sana na wengine waliuawa.
Dini na Mungu ni tamaduni za watu, hata sisi tulikuwa na za kwetu lakini kutokana na udhaifu wa mababu zetu, tamaduni zetu ziliuawa na kuwa replaced na hizi za wageni ambazo waafrika wanazienzi na kuziendeleza hadi leo kama Mnachokifanya hapa Jukwaani.
Existence ya kitu haipimwi kwa macho tu.... Bali properties zake... u can not see utamu wa sukari but u can taste it...uwezi kuona ushuzi but u can smell it... hauwezi kuona sauti but u can hear it... hauwezi kuona baridi but u can sense it... kwa maana hiyo prove ya jambo lolote linafall katika sense organs 5 za mwanadamu...but proving if God exist can not be justified by just looking at the moon, sun etc.... the complexity of this matter bring people to hallucination.How is that
Thank you for that example
It is a lamp that is present on Mt. Kilimanjaro that can not be picked by human eyes
The human eye can't pick everything hence some things are visible: within the visible spectrum of light
If you pass an X ray machine and it releases X-Rays, can i see them, No i can't
But doesn't mean they are not there?
Nah i oughta get a better tool that will enable me to appreciate them au siyo
Same with God, human mind and knowledge is not the optimal tool
There's a much better tool that can be used to appreciate God
And that is the Spiritual realm, that is faith
My request to you, don't reply to this message
Continue reasoning with Nyani ngabu and the rest they can take it on from here
I repeat please don't reply any further
You want to use the long way to reach destiny (conclusion) while there is a short and quicker way to get there, why? or you just like adventures (long debates)?We are going by elimination.
It is important to establish what is true and what is false and the reason.
Else we will not converge anywhere.
On that note. Are the Gods of the Bible and of the Quran for that matter, false?
How could a DNA evolve? Explain. If not evolved, then how and why it appeared. Who created gender? Does gender appear by chance? Be smarter!If at all it is possible for anything to appear without a designer, then the designer is not needed in the first place.
Why are you employing a "Deus ex machina" to resolve a jam you get into by following your own rule?
Does all that appear to be complex need a designer or not?
Either way you answer this question, your God fails.
If you say that all that appears to be complex need a designer, then God needs a designer. That breaks your God.
If you say that a designer is not necessary (as in God was not designed) then your God is not needed as the first mover. That breaks your God.
The only way you can get out of this jam is by using an inconsistent "Deus ex machina" that excuses God from your logic arbitrarily.
"Arbitrary logic" is euphemism for lack of logic.
So much for "logic za msingi".
Unathibitishaje kuwa Mungu hayupo?Hujathibitisha kwamba Mungu yupo bado.
Hilo ndilo la muhimu.
Kabla ya kuthibitisha Mungu yupo, lolote utakalosema litaandamwa na ukweli kwamba hujathibitisha kwamba Mungu yupo.
Did I say DNA evolved?How could a DNA evolve? Explain. If not evolved, then how and why it appeared. Who created gender? Does gender appear by chance? Be smarter!