What is God?
Now Kiranga
This is an example of a guy who is open minded,
He may be an atheist but he is willing to listen and be challenged on what he knows
And this is how we learn,by accepting what we know is not enough,
We may not have all the answers,
what may seem right right now could turn out to be wrong once greater knowledge is revealed unto you
Nadhni hata mwanzo wa thread nilianza na logic hiyo hiyo
To a 2nd grader 2-6 is impossible, but to a pHD mathematician, ts a piece of cake
But as for you my friend, making a huuuuuuge conclusion based on one side of the argument ......
I shudder to think
Anyways brother i still hope you are as open minded as you say you are
Nikikupa a good link, read it and compare with zile ulizonipa
Ukimaliza then tukutane tena
Are you willing?
Be specific Mkuu..Jamani hizi mada zenu za kumdhihaki Mungu mi zinaniudhi sana, hebu mwacheni Mungu wetu kwa nini mnamsakama kila wakati..
hebu zitajeni neema zake alizowabariki, acheni kumdhihaki Mungu, Mungu ni MKUU, ASIFIWAYE NA ANATUKUZWA KILA SIKU
Spirit, soul and body.. Mkuu Nisaidie kujua hii misamiati hapo juu...ili nikuelewe.. Na ikiwezekana nikuamini...Hivi kama Mungu yupo, mbona tunabishana juu ya uwepo wake?
Kwa nini hatubishanii juu ya uwepo wa vitu vingine ambavyo wengi wetu hatujawahi kuviona?
Kwa nini Mungu ajifiche mbali na watu wake?
Kuna ubaya gani kwa Mungu kuonekana kwa viumbe wake?
I have come to realize that God is man made phenomenon, He was created within the mind of ancient people.
Mbona alishakuja duniani...yesu kristo..Hivi kama Mungu yupo, mbona tunabishana juu ya uwepo wake?
Kwa nini hatubishanii juu ya uwepo wa vitu vingine ambavyo wengi wetu hatujawahi kuviona?
Kwa nini Mungu ajifiche mbali na watu wake?
Kuna ubaya gani kwa Mungu kuonekana kwa viumbe wake?
I have come to realize that God is man made phenomenon, He was created within the mind of ancient people.
Unajua these matters are deep,Thank you, kindly.
And just an FYI, I am not an atheist.
I am agnostic.
That's probably why you see I'm open minded, which I am when it comes to the issue of deity.
Ok, hapo sawa.
Ushahidi wa kimantiki au maswali ya kimantiki ambayo labda hayajibiki au bado tu hatujapata majibu yake?
Sidhani kama huo unaouita 'ushahidi wa kimantiki' ni ushahidi. Hayo ni maswali. Na maswali si ushahidi.
Sidhani kama huo ni ushahidi. Au pengine unaweza kuniwekea hapa huo ushahidi nami niuone?
Sasa hapo anayesema hivyo ni mungu mwenyewe au watu ndo wanasema kuwa mungu yupo?
La muhimu hapo ni kujua ni nani anasema hivyo. Binadamu tuna uwezo wa kusema lolote lile. Hata wewe mwenyewe huwa unasema/unaandika kuwa wewe ni Papa.
But saying it so doesn't make it so. Sasa mungu mwenyewe ndo aliwachagua Wayahudi wawe taifa lake au watu ndo wanaosema hivyo?
Vipi kama huyo mungu huwa anasingiziwa mengi ilhali yeye mwenyewe wala hayuko hivyo anavodaiwa alivyo?
Ndo maana nasema hapo ni muhimu kujua anayesema ni nani. Je, ni mungu mwenyewe au ni watu tu?
Usikute mungu mwenyewe wala hana hizo sifa zote anazopewa ila baadhi ya watu kutokana pengine na ujinga wao wanamtwisha sifa kemkem ambazo hana.
Kama kweli mungu yupo basi huwezi kumuweka kwenye mizani ya kibinadamu. Yeye ni mungu, after all.
Ni kweli, contradictions zipo, tena nyingi tu.
Lakini kama ambavyo unasema habari zake ni tungo za watu wa kale ambao walikuwa hawana elimu kubwa, inawezekana hata sisi bado tukawa hatuna ujuzi wa kutosha wa kuweza kuujua kwa uhakika ukweli wa mambo.
Maana itafika wakati hata sisi tutaonekana kuwa ni watu wa kale.
I like to think that knowledge is provisional. Miaka milioni mia moja toka sasa unadhani ujuzi na ufahamu wa mambo mengi tulio nao sasa hivi bado utaendelea kuwa ndo huo huo?
Mimi sijui. Ila naweza kutabiri kuwa haitakuwa hivyo.
Mungu ni roho. You cannot see him by your eyes, unless he decides to do so like for the case of Jesus. Mbona wapo watu wamewahi muona yesu in visions, dreams etc.Ubishi huu ni mrefu kwa sababu tunabishania kitu ambacho hakipo.
Kwa sababu kitu kilichopo ni rahisi sana kuthibitisha kipo.
Kitu ambacho hakipo huwezi kuthibitisha kwamba kipo au hakipo kirahisi.
Ukweli kwamba kuthibitisha kwamba Mungu yupo au hayupo ni kitu kigumu unaonesha Mungu hayupo.
Angekuwepo ingekuwa rahisi sana kuthibitisha yupo bila ubishi.
Na kwa jinsi anavyopenda sifa kama mlivyomuandika kwenye vitabu vyenu, angepanga nyota ziandike angani kwamba Mungu yupo hivyo binadamu wote aminini Mungu yupo.
The fact kwamba hakufanya hivyo na anapenda sifa sana ni contradiction inayoonesha hayupo.
What is God?
Ukirudi naomba unifundishe na mimi nielewe.
Cool
No sweat
As a disclaimer I am not 100% in Bible knowledge,nobody is because we're all learning, we're all continually amazed and inspired by it
I will just share what I know
If you can please pitia some references so that once we meet again tusiwe wote blank
We won't get anywhere
Au sio
Peace man
Bible scholars are contradicting themselves or using "Deus ex machina".Kiranga
before i go ahead and start copying-pasting explanations to those contradictions i need to ask you something
Did you ever make time to read what Bible scholars have to say about those "contradictions"
You say you're open minded, then how do you come to a conclusion based on one side of the coin?
That seems so unlike how you said you are
You said you prefer a Logical framework
In logic do we make conclusions after listening to one side of the argument
I don't want to start posting stuff that you won't even read
If you are as open minded as you say allow me to give you a good link a place where Bible scholars have studied and solved these misunderstandings
So that now that you have a clear view on both sides of an argument and can make a conclusion like a science-based person you claim to be
Are you ready?
Because nikianza kupost hapa you will wear me out and you have proven to me that you don't wanna listen to anything, you just want to have the last say.
I am not here for that. I want to reason with you.
But you couldn't even read the one post where i atleast explained one of those contradictions you posted
You are narrow-minded but i'll gladly accept being proven wrong
Nikupe a LINK where you can go read on those so that the next time we talk you have both sides of the argument?
Nah i suggest upitie tenaNimepitia vyema, you don't have to worry.
Nimekujibu.You don't believe Jesus existed anyways
I have texted you hapo juu
Umekubali?
How long do you think it will take you to do that?
Wewe unaweza kutengeneza nini? Njiti ya kiberiti?Angekuwa na uwezo mkubwa hivyo na upendo mkubwa hivyo asingeumba ulimwengu unaoruhusu viumbe ambao hawana 100% efficient systems kwa standards za wanadamu.
Mkuu hata wachungaji wanajua kabisa kuwa hakuna sauti ya Mungu.Ukitaka kuthibitisha hilo fanya zoezi hili:inahitaji ujasiri kufanya mambo hayo sana mana sio tu unadanganya wengine bali unajidanganya mpk ww mwenyewe. Hujawah hata kusikia sauti ya mungu wala malaika halafu unajitokeza hadharani kabisa na kusema yupo...
Bible scholars are contradicting themselves or using "Deus ex machina".
Why would God's book need scholars anyway?
Couldn't God make his book accessible to everybody like breathing in a way that it does not need scholars?
The fact that we need Bible scholars shows that the Bible is not the book of God.
If it was, we would not need these scholars.
First of all can you answer my question?Friend, you will get those answers some other time
I have been here on this thread for atleast 10 hours, i have to pursue other things alright,
Kiranga
I am waiting on you? What do you say?
Are you willing to go through that journey and then we can set an appointment here on JF where we discuss what each one has learned.
I also offer to read the Articles you posted open-mindedly
We go study them and we will meet here on an appointed date and reason together.
How does that sound to you?
If you want to make anything unintelligible, if you are intelligent enough, you can do that.
People have question their own existence, so certainly philosophy has the capacity to create an idea that is beyond human comprehension. After all, we have a great expanse of the unknown, how can we know the unknown? We can't.
I am discussing God in a very methodical way, because any other discussion of such an otherwordly concept will descend into chaos faster than you can say "Shekoloshabangeeshe".
First and foremost, I am discussing a God who has the characteristics of being omnipotent, omniscient and omni benevolent.
Second of all, I am discussing this God in the context and framework of logic. Without such a context, the entire conversation is meaningless.
Without such a context, it is possible God exists, it is possible God does not exist, it is possible God exists and does not exists at the same time, the entire conversation is meaningless.
Having said that, one very important compass that can be used, is the position of humankind.
If God is all that, then he is supposed the have better systems, ethics etc than humankind.
But we don't see that from the natural world. The current hurricane that devastated Haiti is an example of merciless forces of nature supposedly from a God full of mercy. Inconsistent and contradictory.
Of course, any half wit can argue that maybe we do not understand the mind of God because he is just too great. But that is a tired "Deus ex Machina" that could be used to excuse any shortcoming in anything. So I will not take that. A n omnipotent omniscient and omni benevolent Godhead ought to do better than that.
Of course you can say the very characteristics of omnipotence, omniscience and omni benevolence need not apply to God, in response to that I would then say that that God is not really God, maybe just a very powerful Klingon.
Kuhusu ukweli wa mambo, kuna mtu alisema ukweli wa mambo si tu ni wa ajabu kuliko tunavyofikiri, bali pia ni wa ajabu kuliko tunavyoweza kufikiri.
Mungu tumeweza kumfikiri, tumempima akaonekana amepwaya kwenye vipimo vya ukweli.
Tunahitaji kuchunguza zaidi kuelewa mambo deeply zaidi ya habari za Mungu, angalau huyu Mungu mwenye ujuzi wote, uwezo wote na upendo wote ambaye anaonekana wazi kuwa kuwepo kwake kuna matatizo makubwa sana.