Wanaomkosoa Nyerere wana hoja?

KULIKONI UGHAIB said:

Kwanini tumkosoe Kikwete ilhali naye sio Malaika just like Nyerere?Si kwamba namuunga mkono JK,bali hapa najenga hoja.Pili,unaposema huenda akuna mahali alikosea,hiyo HUENDA inaashiria huna hata hakika kama aliwahi kukosea au la,lakini mwishoni unahitimisha kuwa HAIKUWA MAKUSUDI.How did you know?

Hivi,Nyerere hakutambua kuwa amezungukwa na mbwa mwitu walio kwenye ngozi ya kondoo (eg akina Kingunge)?Hivi Nyerere alipokuwa anatoa adhabu za kuwapa watu ubalozi wanapoboronga hakuwa analea matatizo ambayo leo hii yametuzalishia viongozi wa ajabu kabisa in the form of Kikwete au watangulizi wake Mkapa na Mwinyi?Hudhani kuwa kwa kukumbatia uongozi kama privilege kwa wateule wachache,Nyerere ametuachia CCM inayoamini kuwa uongozi ni u-mUngu mtu kwa wateule wachache hao na si utumishi kwa umma.

Of course,ametufanyia mengi mazuri.Lakini hiyo sio sababu asikosolewe pale alipokosea.Na kumkosoa si dhambi,anyway.

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Hayo ndiyo yalikwa makosa makubwa ya BABA WA TAIFA! walioharibu baadhi yao waliadhibiwa lakini wengi wao WALIHAMISHWA! Ndio maana nimekuwa nikimaanisha nyumba yenye msingi mbovu ibomolewe tujenge nyumba mpya. Shimo la siafu tulimwagie mafuta tulitie moto siafu wasitusumbue tena.

Jasusi is right. Eli Anangisye was involved in a plot to overthrow the government.

Mwalimu Nyerere had nothing against him apart from his involvement in the plot to overthrow the government. He liked Eli Anangisye very much. If you don't believe it, ask some of the people who were close to Mwalimu about that. He was a rising star in the political firmament but squandered his fortune. He was also considered to be brilliant and may be even overconfident.

There are things which can't said here. But if you know some senior intelligence officers who were around then, ask them about Eli Anangisye and about the army officers he talked to, and what happened after that. I knew Eli Anangisye. I talked to him after he was released from detention. I went to his office when he worked at NATEX (National Textile Industries) which was near the Askari monument. He was the head of that office. That was in 1971. I won't go any further. Believe what you want to believe - if you still contend that he was not involved in a plot to overthrow the government; I am not going to be prodded into saying anything else.

Shwari said:

Jasusi is right. Eli Anangisye was involved in a plot to overthrow the government.

Mwalimu Nyerere had nothing against him apart from his involvement in the plot to overthrow the government. He liked Eli Anangisye very much. If you don't believe it, ask some of the people who were close to Mwalimu about that. He was a rising star in the political firmament but squandered his fortune.

There are things which can't said here. But if you know some senior intelligence officers who were around then, ask them about Eli Anangisye and about the army officers he talked to, and what happened after that. I knew Eli Anangisye. I talked to him after he was released from detention. I went to his office when he worked at NATEX (National Textile Industries) which was near the Askari monument. He was the head of that office. That was in 1971. I won't go any further. Believe what you want to believe - if you still contend that he was not involved in a plot to overthrow the government; I am not going to be prodded into saying anything else.

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Shwari,

..sasa mnavyoficha habari namna hii ndivyo mna-create mazingira ya uzushi kushamiri.

..waelezeni vijana ukweli in details ili wasiendelee kuwa victims wa wapotoshaji.

mwanaharakat said:

Truth is the daughter of Time. Hata kama tutatumia nguvu nyingi kiasi gani kumchafua na kumponda J.K Nyerere kwa vigezo tofauti tofauti vyenye maudhui ya udini ndani yake, spirit yake bado itasuta dhamira zetu na kutaka kurudi katika misingi ya utawala bora yenye dhamira ya kumkomboa mtanzania mnyonge. Ikiwa taifa hili halitarejea katika misingi bora ya utawala aliyoiasisi J.K Nyerere basi umaskini utakuwa ni muendelezo wa historia ya vizazi na vizazi. Truth is the daughter of Time.

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hapo naona umeongea kitu ambacho sasa naanza kukielewa.

1. Unasema critisms against Nyerere ni za kidini. Mimi binafsi, naona inawezekana kuwa ni kweli to a certain extent. Bali ziko critisms ambazo sio za kidini, na hizo zina nguvu za hoja. tena ni nyingi.

2. Kwa kuzingatia maelezo niliyotoa hapo juu; ina maana utetezi wa Nyerere; anatetewa kwa sababu za kidini? Ndio mpaka tumefikia kusema awe canonized?

I think we have to be objective. Nyerere was human and bound to make errors like any other

OneManArmyMan said:

...Hebu tufafanulie tafadhali.

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Nimeonyesha, kwa vyanzo mbali mbali, hoja ya bajeti na kubadilisha Katiba iko jamvini, Wabunge wanajadili kupunguza manguvu ya Rais na hatamu ya chama, Nyerere anaona watu wamechachamaa mjadala unaenda ndiko siko, anamtuma Rashidi aende Karimjee kuzima mdahalo na kutamka Bungeni "Hili nataka lieleweke mara moja kwa wote; na iwe mwisho kuhoji hoji Chama." Wabishi wa demokrasia hawakubali, baada ya wiki mbili wanafukuzwa TANU, wanafukuzwa ubunge, na wanatiwa nguvuni.

"A Tanzanian example: On October 19, 1968, Nyerere, then president, ordered several members of his parliament expelled, and detained others without trial. Their crime: criticising his policies during a budget debate. Among the victims were Eli Anangisye and a one-time friend of Nyerere, Joseph Kasella-Bantu; the others were former trade union leader Christopher Kassanga Tumbo, Ndugu Choga, Ndugu Bakampenja, and Ndugu Kaneno.

Several hundred people were detained without trial that same month, up to sixty in the Kilimanjaro region alone. When a report about these detentions appeared on October 2, 1968, in the widely circulating Daily Nation, a Kenyan newspaper, the government promptly ordered the arrest of Tanzanian journalist Melek Mzirai Kangero, for filing the report. CHANZO

Hebu imagine, unamtia nguvuni mwandishi wa habari kwa kuandika habari kwamba kuna wabunge wametiwa nguvuni!

Kwa hiyo, Nyerere alikuwa anajitungia sheria za ku maintain manguvu yake ya kidikteta, halafu baadae anataka tumuenzi "...Katiba ilikuwa inaniruhusu kuwa dikteta, ningetaka ningekuwa dikteta." Unataka nipige makofi kwa hilo?

Ni kama mtu anakwambia inabidi unishukuru, nilikuwa nimeshakuvua nguo ya mwisho, tuko gizani kichochoroni, mazingira yanaruhusu, ningetaka ninge kurepu! Kwa nini utengeneze hayo mazingira, niseme ahsante kweli?

wakati mnaendeea kumjadili nyerere wenxenu haooooo

Taso said:

Nimeonyesha, kwa vyanzo mbali mbali, hoja ya bajeti na kubadilisha Katiba iko jamvini, Wabunge wanajadili kupunguza manguvu ya Rais na hatamu ya chama, Nyerere anaona watu wamechachamaa mjadala unaenda ndiko siko, anamtuma Rashidi aende Karimjee kuzima mdahalo na kutamka Bungeni "Hili nataka lieleweke mara moja kwa wote; na iwe mwisho kuhoji hoji Chama." Wabishi wa demokrasia hawakubali, baada ya wiki mbili wanafukuzwa TANU, wanafukuzwa ubunge, na wanatiwa nguvuni.

"A Tanzanian example: On October 19, 1968, Nyerere, then president, ordered several members of his parliament expelled, and detained others without trial. Their crime: criticising his policies during a budget debate. Among the victims were Eli Anangisye and a one-time friend of Nyerere, Joseph Kasella-Bantu; the others were former trade union leader Christopher Kassanga Tumbo, Ndugu Choga, Ndugu Bakampenja, and Ndugu Kaneno.

Several hundred people were detained without trial that same month, up to sixty in the Kilimanjaro region alone. When a report about these detentions appeared on October 2, 1968, in the widely circulating Daily Nation, a Kenyan newspaper, the government promptly ordered the arrest of Tanzanian journalist Melek Mzirai Kangero, for filing the report. CHANZO

Hebu imagine, unamtia nguvuni mwandishi wa habari kwa kuandika habari kwamba kuna wabunge wametiwa nguvuni!

Kwa hiyo, Nyerere alikuwa anajitungia sheria za ku maintain manguvu yake ya kidikteta, halafu baadae anataka tumuenzi "...Katiba ilikuwa inaniruhusu kuwa dikteta, ningetaka ningekuwa dikteta." Unataka nipige makofi kwa hilo?

Ni kama mtu anakwambia inabidi unishukuru, nilikuwa nimeshakuvua nguo ya mwisho, tuko gizani kichochoroni, mazingira yanaruhusu, ningetaka ninge kurepu! Kwa nini utengeneze hayo mazingira, niseme ahsante kweli?

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Source?? Chanzo??? Ludovick Mwijage. Needless to say, chanzo chako happens to be extremely biased; kwa nini umchague mtu aliyejipatia umaarufu kama "mhanga wa utawala dhallmu wa JKN" wakati wapo neutral and more objective sources wengi tu?

OneManArmyMan said:

Source?? Chanzo??? Ludovick Mwijage. Needless to say, chanzo chako happens to be extremely biased; kwa nini umchague mtu aliyejipatia umaarufu kama "mhanga wa utawala dhallmu wa JKN" wakati wapo neutral and more objective sources wengi tu?

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Thank you, Jeshi la Mtu mmoja. Ludovick Mwijage hana credibility, hata ukisoma kitabu chake unaona kuwa hakuwa "innocent bystander." Taso bado anahitaji kufanya homework yake. Anangisye aliwekwa detention 1967. Walifukuzwa TANU 1968. Wapi na wapi?

Makame;2196685]hapo naona umeongea kitu ambacho sasa naanza kukielewa.
1. Unasema critisms against Nyerere ni za kidini. Mimi binafsi, naona inawezekana kuwa ni kweli to a certain extent. Bali ziko critisms ambazo sio za kidini, na hizo zina nguvu za hoja. tena ni nyingi.
2. Kwa kuzingatia maelezo niliyotoa hapo juu; ina maana utetezi wa Nyerere; anatetewa kwa sababu za kidini? Ndio mpaka tumefikia kusema awe canonized? I think we have to be objective. Nyerere was human and bound to make errors like any other

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Kuna big mispresentation ya topic. Inaonekana kuna wanao metetea mwalimu na wanao mpinga. Hoja ni kumjadili kulingana na kile alichokifanya, alichotarajia kukifanya n.k bila upendeleo.
Kinacholeta malumbano ni wale wanaomtuhumu mwalimu hawako tayari kusema mazuri yake hata moja. Siamini kiongozi aliyetuongoza miaka 23 hana hata jema moja la kumkumbuka. Kibaya zaidi ni kutunga 'theory' za uongo au zisizo na uthibitisho ili kukidhi haja ya uharibufu na kuutumia uharibu waliousababisha kusafisha viongozi wengine waliomfuata.

Ukweli ni kuwa viongozi waliomfuata wote wanafanyia kazi misingi aliyoweka mwalimu. Sasa kama mwalimu alikosea kwa kutodhamiria kwanini makosa hayo yanaendelezwa? na kwa mazuri kwanini asipewe credit?

Mambo kama ya udini inadhihirika hakuna mwenye 'solid evidence' kutokana na maelezo ya watu mbali mbali kama akina Bukuku na Mohamed Said. Pengine ni upotoshaji huo ndiyo maana mchangiaji Makame amesema anaamini kuna udini. Sasa labda naye aje na theory ya udini kutusaidia kuelewa.
Watu wanatumia canonization kuwa sehemu ya udini lakini hilo ni shauri la waumini husika na haliwagusi watu wengine.
Tumesoma habari kuwa yeye amesema ni dikteta, na mwandishi anajua anachoeleza ni kuwapumbaza watu lakini anajua pia ataweza kuwachanganya wengine na kukamilisha dhima yake iliyojengeka katika misingi ya chuki na kurithisha chuki hiyo siku za baadaye.

Hakuna utetezi wa Nyerere kama kiongozi bali utetezi wa rekodi yake ambayo inapotoshwa, finyangwa na kupakwa matope bila sababu ya msingi.
Mfano watu wanaolaani ujamaa wa mwalimu wamesahau kuwa mila na dini zao zinahubiri ujamaa iwe buddha, christian, moslem n.k Lakini hawajaweza kutuonyesha wapi ubepari ulileta neema. Kipimo cha uzuri ni ubaya huwezi kuwa na kimoja ukatoa hukumu.

Kila mara inapoletwa nyaraka inayomhusu mwalimu wale wanaomtuhumu hukimbia, halafu hujitokeza na vichwa vya habari ni mdini, mkabila au aliua watu wengi, alifunga watu wengi n.k hakuna uthibitisho wowote mathalani wengi ni kiasi gani 10 au 3 au 1000. Huu ni uthibitisho kuwa wanaomtuhumu hoja zao zimejikita katika masimulizi na sio ushahidi. Kwa kukaa kimya baadhi ya watu wakitumia elimu zao kupotosha umma ni makosa, historia iandikwe kwa utimilifu wake na sio chuki wala hisia. Mbona ya Htler inaandikwa kama ilivyo?

........Shwari na Jasusi........thanks..............RIP Elly...............

Wapendwa, kuna habari nyingi sana hapa JF za kumchafua SHUJAA WETU baba wa taifa letu tanzania!

Najua zina malengo ya kufikia ushindi katika upinzani wa fikra zake hasa UWEPO WA MUUNGANO, ila sasa imekua too much!

Kwa wale tunaojua ukweli kuhusu uzalendo wa nyerere, tunakerwa sana na MLOLONGO WA MADA MFU na mijadala ya kipuuzi inayoendelea humu!, watu wameacha kuchambua tulipo na tunakoenda katika kupambana na maadui wa taifa, wanahangaika kupanga njama za kuua muungano kupitia kumchafua baba wa taifa!

Bila hatua madhubuti za MOD, JF INAPOTEZA MVUTO KWA KASI kwa kujadili uzushi na upupu!

Tumesha tafakali, Chukua hatua Mods!