Waafrika ndivyo tulivyo?

kijakazi said:

Nyinyi wote humu ndani mnaomuunga mkono huyo jamaa hamna akili, kwani IQ manake nini??? kama ingekua sisi hatuna akili kiasi hicho na kama huyo msenge masatu anavyosema basi waafrika wanaomaliza sekondary africa wasingeweza kusoma ktk vyuo vikuu ulaya kwa maana wangefeli muhula wa kwanza, madaktari wa afrika wasingeweza kufanya kazi ulaya, baadhi ya makampuni makubwa yasingeweza kuongozwa na waafrika. Mimi nasema kila siku tatizo la watu humu ktk hii foramu ni uwezo mdogo wa kufikiri wanashindwa kuelewa kwamba kinachomtofautisha mtoto mmoja na mwingine ni ni mazingira anayokulia, kama einstein angezaliwa masasi ktk kijiji chetu hakuna mtu angemmjua, kwa hiyo huyo watson wa dna nae hana akili, kwanza baiologia sio sayansi na huwezi kuwa na uwezo mzuri wa kufikiri kama umesoma bailogia kwa maana sio sayansi ya kweli bali ni ubabaishaji tu, kama akili zingekua zinarithiwa basi watoto waakina eistein, gauss, feynmann na wengineo basi nao wangekua maarufu. kupata nobel sio hoja huyo watson hana akili, ni lazma muelewe kuwa nobel ni bahati a haihusiani chochote na akili za mtu,... nitaendelea baadae lkni watu kama akina masatu nyani ngabu wanapaswa KUULIWA.....

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heheee, subiri wakuskie !

kijakazi said:

Nyinyi wote humu ndani mnaomuunga mkono huyo jamaa hamna akili, kwani IQ manake nini??? kama ingekua sisi hatuna akili kiasi hicho na kama huyo msenge masatu anavyosema basi waafrika wanaomaliza sekondary africa wasingeweza kusoma ktk vyuo vikuu ulaya kwa maana wangefeli muhula wa kwanza, madaktari wa afrika wasingeweza kufanya kazi ulaya, baadhi ya makampuni makubwa yasingeweza kuongozwa na waafrika. Mimi nasema kila siku tatizo la watu humu ktk hii foramu ni uwezo mdogo wa kufikiri wanashindwa kuelewa kwamba kinachomtofautisha mtoto mmoja na mwingine ni ni mazingira anayokulia, kama einstein angezaliwa masasi ktk kijiji chetu hakuna mtu angemmjua, kwa hiyo huyo watson wa dna nae hana akili, kwanza baiologia sio sayansi na huwezi kuwa na uwezo mzuri wa kufikiri kama umesoma bailogia kwa maana sio sayansi ya kweli bali ni ubabaishaji tu, kama akili zingekua zinarithiwa basi watoto waakina eistein, gauss, feynmann na wengineo basi nao wangekua maarufu. kupata nobel sio hoja huyo watson hana akili, ni lazma muelewe kuwa nobel ni bahati a haihusiani chochote na akili za mtu,... nitaendelea baadae lkni watu kama akina masatu nyani ngabu wanapaswa KUULIWA.....

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Wewe...wewe...
Yaani wewe ndio mmoja ya hao wanaoongelewa na huyo baba wa DNA. Kwanza, mtu aliyevumbua DNA unamuita hana akili?
Pili, hapa sidhani kama kinachozungumziwa ni akili ya darasani na uwezo wa Waafrika kusoma ktk vyuo vya wazungu/ ulaya. Kabla sijaenda mbali umeshasema 'vyuo vikuu vya ulaya'..jiulize kwa nini sio vyo vikuu vya Afrika? Hii ni dhana kubwa sana kwa upeo ulionao.
Tatu, umezungumzia mazingira. Yaani wewe kwa uwezo wako wa kufikiria umeliingiza hili la mazingira ktk equation? Mazingira unayoyazungumzia wewe ni mazingira gani na ni wajibu wa nani kuyamudu hayo mazingira kwa kutumia vizuri na ipasavyo nyenzo, rasilimali na maliasili zilizopo, kwa faida yao na kwa lengo la kuboresha na kurahisisha maisha?

Kama hujanielewa nenda kale mavi kwani nimesikia yana-boost upeo wa kufikiri kwa kiasi fulani kwa watu kama nyie ambao mko upeo-challenged

Huyo watson sio baba wa dna kama unavyodhani mama wa dna anaitwa franklin rosakind, na hao wakina watson waliiba tuu kazi a huyo mama, hakuna chochote kipya walichokifanya, mengine nitakujibu kesho............

Huyo mama anatokea Karatu...?

eeeehhh oohhhhh !

Ndugu yangu nyani ngabu soma kwanza uelewe mambo huyo watson hajagundua dna kama unavyodhania, dna ina historia ndefu na haianzii na huyo mwizi wa kazi za watu (watson), na mtu yeyote mwenye akili mwanasayansi hawezi kulopoka utumbo kama huyo mwizi watson, kwa maana intelijensia haihusiani chochote na na genetics na ndio maana nikakupa mfano watoto wa watu ambao majiniasi kama einstein, gaus, na feynmann hawakuweza kufanya yale ambayo baba zao walifanya kwanza gaus aligombana na mwanawe kwa sababu hakutaka asomee sayansi na hisabati kwa hofu ya kuogopa kuharibu jina la ukoo. Na kama huyo mwizi watson angekua sawa basi wangeshaanza kutengenza watoto majiniasi kwa kuonanisha majiniasi kwa majiniasi, kwa hiyo haya mambo si marahisi kama unvyofikiria......nitaendelea

Mzee Mwanakijiji said:

My take:

Is this really what some of these people think about us?

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The problem is that he is not producing any evidence that he has any scientific findings. His area of expertise is in DNA but he has not isolated the DNA differences between races that account for differences in intelligence. If he had produced such data then it would be possible to debate these results yet as he has not done so then it reasonable to claim that his remarks are based on prejuduice. Having a scientific reputions doesn't mean that every utterance he makes ishas scientific validity.

Kinachofanya Waafrika waonekane mazuzu ni jinsi tunavyotumia uwezo wetu wa akili katika mambo yetu yote. Kusoma na kuwa na phd au professor bado haikufanyi kuonekana wewe unauwezo mkubwa kwani hayo ni mazingira ambayo umetengenezewa na kuwekewa mipaka ili uwe hivyo. Ni product gani utatoa baada ya kuachiwa darasani katika mazingira yoyote; hapo ndipo ngoma inaanza kuchezwa. Kusema kwamba mimi nilikuwa kipanga darasani wakati kazi zako zote ni bomu hiyo haisadii.

Ili kuweza kuwahakikishia hao mamluki wa kizungu kwamba na mtu mweusi zimo lazima tuonyeshe umahiri wa darasani sambamba na maisha yetu.

Tutumie mifano ya wasomi wetu waliobobea, je ni vipi wameweza kubadilisha maisha yao na yawanao wazunguka kwa kutumia elimu zao?

Bila kuonyesha kwa vitendo bado mweusi ataonekana zuzu milele.

Nchi zetu masikini.
Tawala zetu bomu.
Halafu tukiulizwa visingizio kibao ooh wazungu, ooh walitutawala haya yote ni kutaka kukimbia ukweli. Iko kitu.

Ni wangapi mpaka sasa wameshasoma kwenye vyo mahiri duniani wakarushwa Afrika?
Je nini walifanya ukilinganisha na schoolmate au classmate wao waliowaacha ughaibuni; visingizio mazingira yetu ya kazi mabovu.

Myahudi alipochukua jangwa nini alikifanya pale israel? Ipo kitu sijui ni nini?

Uvivu wa kufiri na kutenda ndio unaosababisha matusi. Woga wa kuhoji na uduni wa elimu ndio unasababisha matusi. Viongozi washenzi na wezi ndio wanaotuletea matusi. Rushwa iliyojaa afrika ndio ugonjwa unaokula akili yote hata uwe na phd Rushwa inatafuna yote na kubakia mweupe.

Mweupe atatuletea rushwa kwa viongozi wetu kwani wamejua hilo ndilo bomu nafuu kwa mwafrika.

Nyani Ngabu said:

Hahahahaha....wewe sasa unataka kumuibua Raj Patel kutoka machimboni..
Nakwambia akiiona hii atajiandikisha in split seconds...kama bado hajajiandikisha already (Manji Supporter au kwa jina jingine)

My take about your take: Of course, that is really what they think about us whether they want to admit or not. Deep down that is their feeling. But I think we give them all the reasons to think that about us so I make no apologies for us.

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Nyani Ngabu, actually I would love to argue with Watson - but he hasn't presented anything to argue with scientifically.

If you read the article he says he believes that in 10 years genetics will prove his case regarding blacks.

How can argue with something that someone claims will be discovered inn the future?

I will wager you that there will be no African/black gene which causes lower intelligence.

Until Watson comes up with something he cant start race arguments on the basis of what he believes in the future will be discovered.

Masatu said:

Im sorry I have to agree with the gaffer u dont need to go any further to see blacks adm across africa, if u go to europe those school with minority (blacks) are always performed mediocricity.

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Masatu, a scientist uses the results of an investigation to examine and, possibly, improve an hypothesis. He/She also uses then to suggest further refinements in the methods used, and to suggest fruitful areas for future research.

Good scientists tend to avoid making broad sweeping generalizations until the underlying mechanisms leading to the results are pretty well understood and verified.

In this case the hypothesis is that there might be differences in the outcome of certain tests across entire populations that are genetically determined. The idea that the IQ of an individual (that is, is or her ability to do well in certain tests) might be genetically influenced, does not seems to be very contentious, but I would imagine it is a very complex relationship.

To extrapolate that across entire populations you would need to have pretty strong evidence of a causal link to some genetic factor that is common across an entire population, but not found in those it is compared with. So far the only factor that has been suggested is skin colour, which seems somewhat unlikely. After all what ever the truth about East African runners, they don't run well just because their skin is black.

So what we have is (possible) evidence of correlation, but none at all of causation. I'm sure everyone is aware that correlation between factors is something that needs to be examined very carefully. For example, it is fairly easy to choose the outcome you want, then choose a comparison that will produce it.

The racist uses an announcement like this to confirm his belief that he (an individual white man, say) is inherently superior to another individual (who happens to be black), and is therefore justified in treating him like shit.

Even if there was a provable difference between the average results across large populations, it doesn't lead in any way to his conclusions at the individual level; a smart African is always going to be brighter than a dumb European, no matter what the equivalent averages say. But this won't stop a dumb racist believing the opposite. This is why broad generalizations such as this are so dangerous.

The uber-racists,especially on the right wing, believe that these results justify denying entire populations the assistance and education they need, which is even more dangerous. Even leaving aside the repellent injustice of exploiting nations for centuries, bleeding them of their wealth and resources, then leaving them to rot, on the basis that you consider them 'inferior', there is also the issue of the immense resentment this creates.

Enlightened self-interest ought to tell us that we should continue the attempt to bring everyone's living standards up to the level currently enjoyed by many in the so-called 'developed' countries. Those who use their pseudio-science to justify not doing so are doing us a great disservice and show themselves to be the truly unintelligent of the world, no matter what their IQ tests tell them.

hata pasipo kuisolate a specific gene angeweza kufanya simple research through a scientific method. Angechukua waafrika 100 na wazungu 100 angewapa kila sawa elimu, mazingira ya kusomea, elimu ya msingi n.k halafu angewajaribu darasani compared to a control group of both races that is not provided with anything.. baada ya hapo ndio angeweza kujenga angalau hoja ambayo wanasayansi wengine wangeweza kurudia majaribio hayo na kuona kama nao wanapata suluhisho hilo hilo.

angetumia huo mfano hapo juu mwanakijiji asikwambie mtu, waafrika wangewatoa nishai wazungu haki ya nani, si unajua waafrica wanavyojua kusoma na kuelewa, tokea kipindi kile kusoma usiku na vibatari lakini mtu still anamanage kufanya vizuri achilia mbali hawa waliozoea study lamp, na still wanafanya poor darasani, sasa uniambie wote wapate breakfast ya nguvu asubuhi, computer, wanalaza ubavu wao kuzuri kitandani ndani na kyoyozi, wazungu watatafuta pa kukimbilia nakwambia !

Shida yangu iko kwa wale waliomuunga mkono huyo mzungu, akina Nyani Ngabu, Masatu na wenzake. Kama mko huko ughaibuni ninyi ndio huenda mkawa "unrepresentative sample" ambayo Watson anatumia. Mtu unafikia mpaka unajidharu mwenyewe, hatari! MWAFRIKA JIAMINI, USILAGHAIWE NA MBAGUZI WA RANGI...hana data zozote alizoonyesha kudhibitisha hayo..maoni yake tu machafu ..

Even if there was a provable difference between the average results across large populations, it doesn't lead in any way to his conclusions at the individual level; a smart African is always going to be brighter than a dumb European, no matter what the equivalent averages say. But this won't stop a dumb racist believing the opposite. This is why broad generalizations such as this are so dangerous.



Mkuu Theory,

This is what I am talking about, this is you tena for real, ndio maana ninaipenda hii forum maana ina vichwa makini sana!

SALUTE!

Intelligence ya mtu inategemea na mazingira na wala siyo inherited trait. Mtoto anapozaliwa huwa hana kitu kichwani lakini mazingira anayokulia hu determine intelligence yake.

Kama watu wanaomzunguka ni mazuzu kama Kikwete na Lowassa, bila shaka huyo mtoto atakuwa zuzu. Lakini, kama mtoto amezungukwa na watu wenyeakili (anapata lishe nzuri, afya njema, mafunzo etc...) mtoto atakuwa na akili nzuri.

Rangi ya ngozi inasbabishwa na pigment zinazoitwa melanin. Hizi pigment hazina uhusiano wowote na intelligence ya mtu. Ninadhani huyu mwanasayansi aliye bobea anahitaji kufanya uchunguzi zaidi na aache ubaguzi ili tukubalianae nae.

Mzee Mwanakijiji said:

hata pasipo kuisolate a specific gene angeweza kufanya simple research through a scientific method. Angechukua waafrika 100 na wazungu 100 angewapa kila sawa elimu, mazingira ya kusomea, elimu ya msingi n.k halafu angewajaribu darasani compared to a control group of both races that is not provided with anything.. baada ya hapo ndio angeweza kujenga angalau hoja ambayo wanasayansi wengine wangeweza kurudia majaribio hayo na kuona kama nao wanapata suluhisho hilo hilo.

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No..no...no!!! Hayo mazingira mnayoyasema, ni nani aliyeyatengeneza? Si ni mwanadamu mwenyewe? Tuachane na hoja ya huyo Watson, tuangalie mazingira ya kule tunakotoka na ya wenzetu maana hapa sasa naona watu wanataka kusema wazungu au watu Wa Magharibi wamezaliwa ktk mazingira mazuri yanayomwezesha kuendelea. Msione vyaelea...vimeundwa. Mazingira waliyonayo hawakundelewa na Mungu...wameyajenga wenyewe. Kama sisi kila siku tunajidai kuwa tumejaliwa rasilimali na maliasili kibao lakini ndio watu wa mwisho dunia nzima ktk umaskini sasa kwa nini umaskini wetu usiwe ndio chachu ya kukuna bongo zetu ili tuwe na maisha bora? Sidhani kama elimu ya darasani ni hoja maana hilo limeshathibika kuwa ni sivyo.

Halafu ktk dunia ya leo ya political correctness kufanya study kama hiyo ni sawa na kukufuru na wala sidhani hata kama ingethibitisha kitu.

KadaMpinzani said:

angetumia huo mfano hapo juu mwanakijiji asikwambie mtu, waafrika wangewatoa nishai wazungu haki ya nani, si unajua waafrica wanavyojua kusoma na kuelewa, tokea kipindi kile kusoma usiku na vibatari lakini mtu still anamanage kufanya vizuri achilia mbali hawa waliozoea study lamp, na still wanafanya poor darasani, sasa uniambie wote wapate breakfast ya nguvu asubuhi, computer, wanalaza ubavu wao kuzuri kitandani ndani na kyoyozi, wazungu watatafuta pa kukimbilia nakwambia !

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eeeh...wataenda Mars...na watawaachia mhangaike na dunia yenu huku wao wakila raha kwenye sayari ingine..

Nyani Ngabu said:

Wewe...wewe...
Yaani wewe ndio mmoja ya hao wanaoongelewa na huyo baba wa DNA. Kwanza, mtu aliyevumbua DNA unamuita hana akili?
Pili, hapa sidhani kama kinachozungumziwa ni akili ya darasani na uwezo wa Waafrika kusoma ktk vyuo vya wazungu/ ulaya. Kabla sijaenda mbali umeshasema 'vyuo vikuu vya ulaya'..jiulize kwa nini sio vyo vikuu vya Afrika? Hii ni dhana kubwa sana kwa upeo ulionao.
Tatu, umezungumzia mazingira. Yaani wewe kwa uwezo wako wa kufikiria umeliingiza hili la mazingira ktk equation? Mazingira unayoyazungumzia wewe ni mazingira gani na ni wajibu wa nani kuyamudu hayo mazingira kwa kutumia vizuri na ipasavyo nyenzo, rasilimali na maliasili zilizopo, kwa faida yao na kwa lengo la kuboresha na kurahisisha maisha?

Kama hujanielewa nenda kale mavi kwani nimesikia yana-boost upeo wa kufikiri kwa kiasi fulani kwa watu kama nyie ambao mko upeo-challenged

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Did Kijakazi's posting deserve this harsh response? Really?
May be I am missing something here.

TzPride said:

Shida yangu iko kwa wale waliomuunga mkono huyo mzungu, akina Nyani Ngabu, Masatu na wenzake. Kama mko huko ughaibuni ninyi ndio huenda mkawa "unrepresentative sample" ambayo Watson anatumia. Mtu unafikia mpaka unajidharu mwenyewe, hatari! MWAFRIKA JIAMINI, USILAGHAIWE NA MBAGUZI WA RANGI...hana data zozote alizoonyesha kudhibitisha hayo..maoni yake tu machafu ..

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Unajua kuna hoja fulani hivi...inaweza ikawa inasound kuwa ni ya kitoto au kijinga lakini mimi naona ina make sense...kuna baadhi ya watu wanaamini kuwa sisi watu weusi ni zaidi ikija kwenye mambo ya michezo na mambo ya sanaa, starehe na mambo kama hayo na tuko haraka kujivunia sifa hiyo(zo) na kukiri kuwa kweli tumewazidi wazungu na blah blah blah. Sasa ikija kwenye mambo ya kichwani tunakuja juu..oooh eti wabaguzi..

GAME THEORY said:

The problem is that he is not producing any evidence that he has any scientific findings. His area of expertise is in DNA but he has not isolated the DNA differences between races that account for differences in intelligence. If he had produced such data then it would be possible to debate these results yet as he has not done so then it reasonable to claim that his remarks are based on prejuduice. Having a scientific reputions doesn't mean that every utterance he makes ishas scientific validity.

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I agree with this totally.

Kalamu said:

Did Kijakazi's posting deserve this harsh response? Really?
May be I am missing something here.

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Absolutely!! He said I deserve to die/ be killed just because he happens to disagrees with me