The Party and the Pickle: Understanding CCM's Vulnerability Towards General Elections 2015

The Party and the Pickle: Understanding CCM's Vulnerability Towards General Elections 2015

CDM is stronger now than it was in 2010, and the time is ripe for change now than any other time.

The fact of matter is that every party has challenges and CCM is not immune. Like I said CDM is not static, they are changing with changes in politics. Drastic times calls for drastic measures. The party has to make sure it has candidates who can win an election not just a list of Professors and Doctors of Philosophy who can’t talk.

Democracy is all about the people, SUGU won an election because many in his constituency trusted him with the job and many people in Mbeya town are not fools. We have seen his numerous contributions in parliament and being an MP is not just about reading pages, there is a lot more, that’s just a tip of the iceberg.

Prof. J just like Afande Sele have established interests in representing people in their constituencies and it is ultimately going to be up to the people in those constituencies to elect who they like. CDM don’t choose for people, people choose for CDM, that’s good politics.

There is no evidence whatsoever that CDM squanders its own funds rather than mere rhetoric by politicians trying to earn political points regardless. Comparing that with an organization of people verifiably embezzling taxpayer’s money and cripple development is not ethical.

Other things you are pointing out works for you and not for many people, CDM is for majority not minority.

Kimweri is right and in fact his opinions are more constructive than you could imagine. CHADEMA should be careful with their choices on the MPs candidates, they should choose cadres with in depth knowledge and well versed in local and international issues. They can help the party counter CCM on issues.
 
CDM is stronger now than it was in 2010, and the time is ripe for change now than any other time.

The fact of matter is that every party has challenges and CCM is not immune. Like I said CDM is not static, they are changing with changes in politics. Drastic times calls for drastic measures. The party has to make sure it has candidates who can win an election not just a list of Professors and Doctors of Philosophy who can't talk.

Democracy is all about the people, SUGU won an election because many in his constituency trusted him with the job and many people in Mbeya town are not fools. We have seen his numerous contributions in parliament and being an MP is not just about reading pages, there is a lot more, that's just a tip of the iceberg.

Prof. J just like Afande Sele have established interests in representing people in their constituencies and it is ultimately going to be up to the people in those constituencies to elect who they like. CDM don't choose for people, people choose for CDM, that's good politics.


There is no evidence whatsoever that CDM squanders its own funds rather than mere rhetoric by politicians trying to earn political points regardless. Comparing that with an organization of people verifiably embezzling taxpayer's money and cripple development is not ethical.

Other things you are pointing out works for you and not for many people, CDM is for majority not minority.

You just summed up Populism.

I will not support an opposition centered on sending to the parliament popular figures. We have diamond platnumz, very popular and can certainly win a popularity contest against any politician in TZ, BUT is he the right person to lead the country or even a constituents. ofcourse NO.

No need to force CDM popularity now. Go through JF and find 5 top threads discussing CDM, NONE. Even you are discussing it inside a thread talking about CCM. CDM popularity was not this low before 2010, i was there.BUT we don't have to play god. lets wait for the elections result, feel free to call up this topic again so we proceed from there.

I told CDM supporters same during Zitto Row, I told you so is not a very nice thing to say to someone, but sometimes some people just ask for it.
 
WOW!

That coming from a CDM supporter who miraculously called out ZITTO for having different ideas. just WOW. I actually despise CDM for following in all CCM mistakes and when they get called out, they be like CCM is doing that as well!Jeez.., IF CCM is bad and does bad things, why would a common mwananchi replace it for another party that does same old junk?

CDM is not surging ahead, stop delludng yourself. Everyone in Tanzania now knows exactly what has to happen for CCM to get their nominee. They know about almost all aspirants message,rhetoric and ideas. YET NO ONE knows anything about CDM aspirants,or UKAWA aspirants. NO ones even knows the process, it's all blanketed in we will have a new nominee by a certain date, just like that. THIS is not USSR. CDM is supposed to be a democratic party. Yet it's getting schooled by an old used to be socialist party how to be democratic, transparent and how to build momentum and PR around them. IF one is told to pick which party is from 1970 without being told the names, that will certainly be CDM.

It's 2015, yet CDM's best ideas come from what CCM will do next.i feel angry when i observe the state of opposition in Tanzania. we once had a vibrant opposition, now we have jobless folks looking for their next gigs.

Can you present anything to suggest that CDM is not surging ahead? With figures please, it will help all of us..

When you say no one knows about CDM/UKAWA's aspirants, did you include me?, because I know a lot..

CDM is not a democratic party because they chased Zitto..thats absurd, and I will argue in my next comments how CDM is more democratic than CCM..

Try to get a glimpse of CCM's history before you argue in their favor with regards to practicing democracy.. seems you missed the history of how CCM has been electing its candidates..
 
Mzee Mwanakijiji , Lowassa is only a threat inside CCM, outside CCM few will have any reason to be associated with him. Yes he does command an impressive following of party cadres, but this is simply because he somehow managed to get his "friends" to finance this association.

But, this is possible only within CCM. Outside CCM, he will need to have a message to sell, and i don't see any. If he goes against his party, then we both know what CCM will unleash. A massive coordinating attack towards a Man they will blame for all their illness. Makongoro has climbed to the highest order in of the aspirants by simply being blunt. Imagine if each and every CCM bigwig decides to be blunt, even those with shoddy ties. Lowassa, is not that good a politician/public speaker to counter the party machinery.

And most importantly, large percentage of voters are poor, not well off,which means a candidate selling the Ujamaa and "unyerere" policy will easily win the hearts and minds of majority of Tanzanians who never really got to benefit under the recently embraced capitalist policies.

Capitalism never intends to uplift the entire society, that's not the fabric of how it's made. NO one ever wins an election by promising more rich people, its simply does not work, even in the first world country. We saw that in Greece, the US, UK etc. As much as people love getting rich, those who do are actually a very tiny part of any society. Lowassa can get the votes of all middle income, and upper income voters and still lose an election. The elections are won by the lower class, and this is the class CCM needs to curate the message for them this time around, and unfortunately, Lowassa and his army of suspiciously rich cadres, simply do confuse this message.

I am 100% sure Lowassa will not get the nomination, I am also 90% sure either of the two, Makongoro/Ramadhani, will be our president come next year. Why?the message to win an election lies with them. CCM publicized itself about "kujivua Gamba" operation before, but this is the year, it has to go through with it to actually win an election.

If JK won without Lowassa and Mtandao help, and on the backdrop of huge baggage mafisadi had on him, Makongoro/Ramadhani can easily win by simply offering a clean state of back to principles and new hopes to the bearers of CCM flag (farmers and workers).

The only complication that might get into this ticket is If CCM gets cold feet and decides to add a woman in the seat, of which Asha Rose Migiro, could easily become a black horse and scoop either the VP nomination of the Nomination itself. However as things goes, Ramadhani running and any VP(Asha/Mwandosya/Bilal/) or Makongoro running and Ramadhani as VP is about the surest way for CCM to get the votes.

Mwandosya and Makongoro are important for CCM because of the massive voter base they command.While Ramadhani, is important for the outward picture that CCM want's to portray, although with careful Opposition, this picture could backfire.since a carefully calibrated opposition message that his party affiliation was blurry during his tenure as CJ could cause some damage. BUT you do realize you are on the winning side, when the only negative thing about your candidate is an assumption of association.

hapo kwenye red ndio tatizo... Lowassa power ndani ya ccm inaextend hadi nje - reason kubwa ni kwamba watanzania ni mbayuwayu, tunarukia populists, and he is a populist

Kwa upande mwingine, pamoja na kuwa threat kote, ni rahisi zaidi kupambana naye kwasababu ccm wamefanya kazi nzuri ya kumbomoa; it will all depend on who is in his campaign trail endapo atapitishwa na CCM
 
You just summed up Populism.

I will not support an opposition centered on sending to the parliament popular figures. We have diamond platnumz, very popular and can certainly win a popularity contest against any politician in TZ, BUT is he the right person to lead the country or even a constituents. ofcourse NO.

No need to force CDM popularity now. Go through JF and find 5 top threads discussing CDM, NONE. Even you are discussing it inside a thread talking about CCM. CDM popularity was not this low before 2010, i was there.BUT we don't have to play god. lets wait for the elections result, feel free to call up this topic again so we proceed from there.

I told CDM supporters same during Zitto Row, I told you so is not a very nice thing to say to someone, but sometimes some people just ask for it.

Just because you are not supporting CDM means it is not growing, you are just one person..we welcome new thousands of members each day..

CDM is popular than any other party in TZ. I'm suprised that according to you popularity of CCM is some JF pages..by the way a lot of people have to follow up what is going on in CCM not because they are popular, but because people are wondering about all the dirty aspirants CCM has..and who is less dirtier to be nominated to represent CCM..that's all

Wema Sepetu, Irene Uwoya and Steve Nyerere have also established interests in various positions in CCM..you want to discuss about them?
 
Can you present anything to suggest that CDM is not surging ahead? With figures please, it will help all of us..

When you say no one knows about CDM/UKAWA's aspirants, did you include me?, because I know a lot..

CDM is not a democratic party because they chased Zitto..thats absurd, and I will argue in my next comments how CDM is more democratic than CCM..

Try to get a glimpse of CCM's history before you argue in their favor with regards to practicing democracy.. seems you missed the history of how CCM has been electing its candidates..

let me give you the easy figures, Mmepoteza majimbo karibia ma-3, kabla hata uchaguzi haujaanza. Mmepoteza viongozi wakuu waliokuwepo 2010 wawili, makamu mwenyekiti na naibu katribu mkuu, achilia mbali wenyeviti wa mikoa na wilaya.

So You honestly think there is Democracy in a party that has no term limit on its chairmanship?do you think there is democracy in a party that automatically disqualifies any court challenge?do you think there is democracy in a party that any dissent is labelled usaliti, and there is a special taskforce to root out dissidents?where are we communist russia?

Sorry if your standards of democracy are that low, BUT, i have seen better democracy, and it does not resemble even a little to the offering i see at CHADEMA. and PLEASE don't come up with that tired excuse of CCM also does same junk we do.., You are an opposition part with the word democracy in your name. You should not be comparing yourselves to a party born in the cold war era under Socialist ideas.


By the way, how many people have vied for the presidential position through CDM?why is no one challenging Slaa?why is no one challenging Mbowe?
 
Just because you are not supporting CDM means it is not growing, you are just one person..we welcome new thousands of members each day..

CDM is popular than any other party in TZ. I'm suprised that according to you popularity of CCM is some JF pages..by the way a lot of people have to follow up what is going on in CCM not because they are popular, but because people are wondering about all the dirty aspirants CCM has..and who is less dirtier to be nominated to represent CCM..that's all

Wema Sepetu, Irene Uwoya and Steve Nyerere have also established interests in various positions in CCM..you want to discuss about them?

CCM is collecting JUNK, why shouldn't CDM do the same?are you reading yourself?

As for what party is popular now between CCM and CDM, let's not kid ourselves, CCM has absolutely blanketed the entire country with it's Nomination Mambo jambo!

UKAWA is soon to vote for its aspirants, yet none has ever come out and speak for what kind of leaders they would be.NONE.

It's like a NAZI german kind of election in UKAWA, where everything is done in secrecy in fear of dissent. just bonkers.
 
Kimweri is right and in fact his opinions are more constructive than you could imagine. CHADEMA should be careful with their choices on the MPs candidates, they should choose cadres with in depth knowledge and well versed in local and international issues. They can help the party counter CCM on issues.

Do you know that until yesterday 9th July 2015, of the fraction of MPs who haven't talked in parliament since 2010, how many are CCM's and how many are CDM's?

Among CDM's MPs and CCM's MPs how many in ratio have in depth knowledge of local and international issues? supportive data is important..

He is not offering any constructive opinions rather destructive opinions, I'm surprised you bought them..
 
why do you think the 42 aspirants went running for presidential forms?they are assured of "maradona's goal" sad and bitter truth,the outcome,..a dead body here a dead body there...coalition government.Mwanakijiji is deeper than them roots.
 
CCM is collecting JUNK, why shouldn't CDM do the same?are you reading yourself?

As for what party is popular now between CCM and CDM, let's not kid ourselves, CCM has absolutely blanketed the entire country with it's Nomination Mambo jambo!

UKAWA is soon to vote for its aspirants, yet none has ever come out and speak for what kind of leaders they would be.NONE.

It's like a NAZI german kind of election in UKAWA, where everything is done in secrecy in fear of dissent. just bonkers.

CCM has not blanketed anything, if you can't decipher a small thing like what makes CCM popular right now, then I can't tell about your ability to handle sophisticated stuffs..

These are cheap arguments coming from you..so cheap that I don't have to beat my brain..
 
let me give you the easy figures, Mmepoteza majimbo karibia ma-3, kabla hata uchaguzi haujaanza. Mmepoteza viongozi wakuu waliokuwepo 2010 wawili, makamu mwenyekiti na naibu katribu mkuu, achilia mbali wenyeviti wa mikoa na wilaya.

So You honestly think there is Democracy in a party that has no term limit on its chairmanship?do you think there is democracy in a party that automatically disqualifies any court challenge?do you think there is democracy in a party that any dissent is labelled usaliti, and there is a special taskforce to root out dissidents?where are we communist russia?

Sorry if your standards of democracy are that low, BUT, i have seen better democracy, and it does not resemble even a little to the offering i see at CHADEMA. and PLEASE don't come up with that tired excuse of CCM also does same junk we do.., You are an opposition part with the word democracy in your name. You should not be comparing yourselves to a party born in the cold war era under Socialist ideas.


By the way, how many people have vied for the presidential position through CDM?why is no one challenging Slaa?why is no one challenging Mbowe?

Loosing a constituency happens after an election not before, if loosing is before then there is no need for an election, there is no need for an Electoral Commission..

People move from parties to parties that is what democracy is, it happens everywhere in the democratic world..

You started comparing CCM to CDM, now that comparison has been countered and you don't want it..

I'm sorry I don't respond to speculations, rumors or things that you can't verify..because in doing so, I'll be spreading rumors myself..
 
CCM has not blanketed anything, if you can't decipher a small thing like what makes CCM popular right now, then I can't tell about your ability to handle sophisticated stuffs..

These are cheap arguments coming from you..so cheap that I don't have to beat my brain..

Stop worrying about any of my abilities,they Re irrelevant here.
We were talking of populism not quality of the party or leadership both if which can be judged on many sets of parameters.

CDM failed with populism by not being in control of the news circle.they are dancing to CCM's tune.not good.

I don't expect you who is in the box to know about how it looks from the outside.you can guess but thats about all you can do.

I tried to talk about democracy,leadership and ethics,you turned things to be about populism,now you have noted even that CDM is not doing well,you blame that on me,again.

So where exactly is CDM a trend setter in Tanzanian politics post 2010?
 
Loosing a constituency happens after an election not before, if loosing is before then there is no need for an election, there is no need for an Electoral Commission..

People move from parties to parties that is what democracy is, it happens everywhere in the democratic world..

You started comparing CCM to CDM, now that comparison has been countered and you don't want it..

I'm sorry I don't respond to speculations, rumors or things that you can't verify..because in doing so, I'll be spreading rumors myself..

Now you are properly deluded if you think CDM will win in Zitto,Arfi and Shibuda constituency.what next,winning in Msoga and monduli?

One thing j have always condemned CDM of is their lacking in proper stratergists.and if your stratergists are telling you you will recover kigoma kaskazini or moanda mjini they need to get fired.

I haven't said anything that's not a fact or thats not in public domain.

When I compare CCM to CDM do not take it as a compliment,its a disdain,so comparing CDM back is not really helping. As I said many times if I were to pick a party that's to be resembling CCM,there is no point of replacing CCM for a CCN wannabe that's even less experienced and more disorganised.
 
Stop worrying about any of my abilities,they Re irrelevant here.
We were talking of populism not quality of the party or leadership both if which can be judged on many sets of parameters.

CDM failed with populism by not being in control of the news circle.they are dancing to CCM's tune.not good.

I don't expect you who is in the box to know about how it looks from the outside.you can guess but thats about all you can do.

I tried to talk about democracy,leadership and ethics,you turned things to be about populism,now you have noted even that CDM is not doing well,you blame that on me,again.

So where exactly is CDM a trend setter in Tanzanian politics post 2010?

At first you compared CDM and CCM, then you said you don't want comparison, now you are comparing again, next you won't want comparison, shilly shally..

How can you see me inside the box while you are outside of it, certainly we are both outside of it, that's why you can see me..

It seems you haven't followed the developments in the parliament since 2010 or even read papers..you would have known how CDM have set the agenda on several occasions..
 
Some one might concur with what you believe to be a factual stance in your own sight mzee but mind you the deepened roots of this ancient party aren't soft to be cut easily,the upcoming 2015 G.election will prove this.
By N'yadikwa
 
Now you are properly deluded if you think CDM will win in Zitto,Arfi and Shibuda constituency.what next,winning in Msoga and monduli?

One thing j have always condemned CDM of is their lacking in proper stratergists.and if your stratergists are telling you you will recover kigoma kaskazini or moanda mjini they need to get fired.

I haven't said anything that's not a fact or thats not in public domain.

When I compare CCM to CDM do not take it as a compliment,its a disdain,so comparing CDM back is not really helping. As I said many times if I were to pick a party that's to be resembling CCM,there is no point of replacing CCM for a CCN wannabe that's even less experienced and more disorganised.

Anything is possible in politics..anything, we can win anywhere, that's how politics work..

Why don't you share with us your reliable sources of information from 'public domain'..

You said CCM is democratic and CDM is not..I gave you a glimpse of the history and now you don't want such comparison..
 
I like Mzee Mwanakijiji's analysis. It is a critical one. Asante, I see the following:
1. CCM has planned, is somehow afraid to get rid of Lowassa. All these timing of not releasing the remaining name, are a sign of cowardice or Lowassa influence and his people's opposition in defending him, by any means, in and outside CCM decision rooms. Lowassa is believed to have corrupted so many members in the CCM decision making bodies using clean and dirty money and leadership promises, just like what jakaya did ten years ago.
2. CCM has all information about Lowassa's behaviour in BUYING the presidency, something he had started earlier than ALL other aspirants, just like what Kikwete did ten years ago. However, this time other CCM members are saying NO to this. For sure, there is a hot debate on how to better anounce the remaining five names without Lowassa's, without losing CCM unity amongst its members.
3. All in all. I agree that the Ramadhani/makongoro or Ramadhani/Migiro combination may result to CCM survial, given the analysis you have provided.
Go CCM go.......
 
I have supported CDM and opposition in general way before JF was renamed from JamboForum, but they keep disappointing and disappointing year in year out. 2010 was the high point, a culmination of massive effort that JF and others contributed to. Kinyume chake hawa hawa wapinzani wakaanza kujiona kama watawala nao. They used to come here to get advice, wakaanza kuja kutoa matamko.

I support change in Tanzania, i just don't see any positive change in TZ Opposition at the moment. CDM has become so similar to CCM in many things, copying it's hopeless strategies, bureaucracy and bad decisions.

A wise man once said,....When you are fighting vampires make sure you don't become one of them.
Tofauti ya Chadema na CCM kwa sasa ni kwamba mmoja ana dola mmoja hana.
This is very disappointing.

 
Mzee Mwanakijiji said:
The General, the Priest, and the Judge: Enter Augustino Ramadhani
Mmmh! Judge Augustino Ramadhani...How I wish, at one time, he hadn't been the Vice-Chairman of the National Electoral Commission under Judge Lewis Makame! How I wish, at one time, he hadn't been the Vice-Chairman of the Constitutional Review Commission under Judge Joseph Sinde Warioba! What bothers me most about him is that his presence in these two organs was never felt, it was just as if he wasn't there!

Macko...Because of the name he is a contender but without the name, nobody would even bother talking about him. I doubt if he would even have dared to pick a form!

Lowassa...He has the money and the influence (within his party). Unfortunately he is what he is and because of that some of us have hope...hope that he drags his party to where both deservedly belong, in the gutter.

Come on guys, there is life outside this den of hungry hyenas...let us get out of and get some fresh air and sunshine.
 
Mmmh! Judge Augustino Ramadhani...How I wish, at one time, he hadn't been the Vice-Chairman of the National Electoral Commission under Judge Lewis Makame! How I wish, at one time, he hadn't been the Vice-Chairman of the Constitutional Review Commission under Judge Joseph Sinde Warioba! What bothers me most about him is that his presence in these two organs was never felt, it was just as if he wasn't there!

Macko...Because of the name he is a contender but without the name, nobody would even bother talking about him. I doubt if he would even have dared to pick a form!

Lowassa...He has the money and the influence (within his party). Unfortunately he is what he is and because of that some of us have hope...hope that he drags his party to where both deservedly belong, in the gutter.

Come on guys, there is life outside this den of hungry hyenas...let us get out of and get some fresh air and sunshine.

It speaks volume of Makongoro if his name is his biggest downfall.

At the time when CCM has cornered itself, finding a leader who is good in economics or whatever that the country might need, might not be so wise after all.
If Lowassa and his puppets were not so greedy, 2015 would have a different setup, but we have to deal with what we have at hand, not hypothetical. CCM is almost broken, and Makongoro is about the only candidate that is sincere,seems to know what is the problem within his party and looks like will be decisive. This is exactly what CCM needs. CCM already has a lot of technocrats who can be told what to do and do it. what it lacks is a leader, who can actually tell this technocrats the correct thing to do. And Makongoro by virtual of superior Upbringing and DNA seems to be the perfect match.

Ramadhani won't do much in a way of dramatics, but at least you will be sure, IKULU will be a respectable place and uswahili we have become so accustomed with in the way of our dealings will be kicked out. You don't get to become CJ, Brigadier General and pastor if your moral compas is remotely broken. As Mwanakijiji said, Ramadhani simply is one remarkable Man, should he be selected or not. What he has achieved in one lifetime, many great men would struggle to achieve in 3 lifetimes.

Is there life outside CCM, yes ofcourse there is, but sensing the political landscapes, Tanzanians are as lazy when it come to change as lazy gets.
 
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