Ooh Poor NSSF!! - What is this?

kobello said:

Nguruvi,
NSSF has to submit its actuarial report to ILO every three years I guess.The notion that NSSF is rushing in to things is just weird,because NSSF has enough experts to oversee these projects(I mean their feasibilty).

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NSSF ilianza kuwa na mpango wa kuingia katika sekta ya kuzalisha umeme lini?

When you say NSSF should invest in TANESCO's poor infrastructure,you didn't take into consideration what it really takes to overhaul the whole infrastructure,it needs a lot of dough!Why should NSSF invest in a poor perfoming company like TANESCO?They cant even collect their bills.

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The same can be said about Kiwira or not?

TANPOWER deal was bogus.

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NSSF gave them 7 million USD; the debt (plus interests) now stands at 15 million USD. NSSF took Masau to court, they Took Mbowe Hotels to court.. but not Tanpower!

However,NSSF is the winner here, the loan added up with interest and now they can cheaply aquire the mine!

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Was this the plan all along? why not acquire Kagera sugar which owes them more money? or acquire General Tyre which also owes them more money?

Can TANESCO buy Zanzibar?

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absurd. Is a Zanzibar a public utility company?

When you talk about taking TANPOWER to court,did you read the terms of their loan agreement?,under which court is the auctioning of General tyre assets was granted?.....and why POAC stopped it?You can reposses the assets without going to court as long as the loan agreement stipulate so.It's the duty of the debtor to stop it in court.

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the loan agreement.. the loan agreement between NSSF and Tanpower..

Lastly,corruption and government interruption affects both parastatals.So we need to look at these things ceteris peribus,and I am damn sure NSSF is more competent as a bidder compared to TANESCO.

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I have no idea where this assurance come from. Why are you sure about NSSF and not Tanesco? Labda utusaidie kutupa majibu ya maswali haya matatu ili angalau na sisi tuweze kuwa na imani uliyonayo na tuunge mkono:

a. NSSF imewekeza kwenye miradi mingapi, kwa kiasi gani na imeanza kupata kiasi gani kutoka kwenye miradi hiyo?
b. Je kuna mikataba yoyote ambayo CAG ameona NSSF imewekeza pasipo tija na kutaka ifikirie upya au hata kujitoa?
c. Nani anayesimamia uwekezaji wa NSSF kuhakikisha kuwa ni ya maslahi kwa taifa - Kumbuka Bodi ya Usimamizi wa Mifuko hii imezinduliwa hivi juzi tu. Lakini ni mfumo gani wa ndani wa NSSF ulio na wajibu wa kisheria wa kusimamia uwekezaji?
Did TANESCO bid?.....[/QUOTE]

kobello said:

Nguruvi,
NSSF has to submit its actuarial report to ILO every three years I guess.The notion that NSSF is rushing in to things is just weird,because NSSF has enough experts to oversee these projects(I mean their feasibilty).
When you say NSSF should invest in TANESCO's poor infrastructure,you didn't take into consideration what it really takes to overhaul the whole infrastructure,it needs a lot of dough!Why should NSSF invest in a poor perfoming company like TANESCO?They cant even collect their bills.
TANPOWER deal was bogus.However,NSSF is the winner here,the loan added up with interest and now they can cheaply aquire the mine!Can TANESCO buy Zanzibar?
When you talk about taking TANPOWER to court,did you read the terms of their loan agreement?,under which court is the auctioning of General tyre assets was granted?.....and why POAC stopped it?You can reposses the assets without going to court as long as the loan agreement stipulate so.It's the duty of the debtor to stop it in court.
Lastly,corruption and government interruption affects both parastatals.So we need to look at these things ceteris peribus,and I am damn sure NSSF is more competent as a bidder compared to TANESCO.
Did TANESCO bid?.....

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You're right, no need to invest into another corrupted Organization. Please allow me to set the record clear.
This is my position without twist and turn.
1. Clean the Tanesco first and give it autonomy free from unnecessary intervention by outsiders or agents.
2. NSSF should think of working together with Tanesco using the extant infrastructure.
3. Then looming power crisis has prompted NSSF to act on Kiwira ASAP. Isn't a rush!! Was Kiwira project in plan three years ago?
4. Tanesco and NSSF have lots in common in terms of management, don't you see that one failure could reflect another.
5. Are you complacent that NSSF has fulfilled its basic obligations before embarking into more complicated project like kiwira.

kobello said:

The government doesn't own kiwira!!

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Once owned! PM Pinda stated in the parliament that the government will reposes kiwira. Also, the government is paying kiwira workers, so why use our tax for something we don't own.

Where the assurance came from?....It's easy,
NSSF collects 200m$ annually,TANESCO runs in subsidies.
NSSF owns the government through treasury bonds worth 186m$ plus loans from UDOM,POLICE,TPDF...while TANESCO is owned by a broke government as a liability.
NSSF can easily inject private capital,a lot of tanzanians here in the US are eyeing NSSF membership while TANESCO is a laughing stock of private investors.
NSSF automatically collects money,while TANESCO can't collect money even from their existing customers.
Honestly,apart from "fisadi conpiracy theories" you haven't shown us how TANESCO is a better bidder!
PS:STAMICO and TANESCO failed to produce amid a flock of experts,so don't throw the expertise card,it's the management that really matters.

Nguruvi3 said:

Once owned! PM Pinda stated in the parliament that the government will reposes kiwira. Also, the government is paying kiwira workers, so why use our tax for something we don't own.

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Because STAMICO owns 30% of kiwira...i.e mainly workers.

Nguruvi3 said:

Are you complacent that NSSF has fulfilled its basic obligations before embarking into more complicated project like kiwira.[/SIZE][/FONT]

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Are you that they haven't?...or jusT paranoid?...sorry

Mzee Mwanakijiji said:

Nadhani "udini" unaanza kutumika kama majibu ya kila tatizo; yaani wapo watu ambao kweli kabisa hawawezi kuangalia jambo lolote isipokuwa kama kuna dini nyuma yake.

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Ukiangalia hoja za msingi ya udini zinadhihirisha kuwa wapo wenzetu ambao kama hawana hoja basi wataamua kuvuruga mada. Mfano, sijaona wapi Dau ameshambuliwa katika mada hii zaidi ya NSSF. Tena kama ukiangalia management ya NSSF utagundua kuwa hawa wadini wana tataizo la uchambuzi.
Nilidhani dini zipo kuimarisha maarifa na ueledi, sasa nina shaka kama hazichangia uzembe wa kufikiri. sorry!

Nguruvi3 said:

Once owned! PM Pinda stated in the parliament that the government will reposes kiwira. Also, the government is paying kiwira workers, so why use our tax for something we don't own.

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Kikwete alipotoa hutuba yake hivi majuzi amesema Kiwira imerudishwa serikalini.

kobello said:

Are you that they haven't?...or jusT paranoid?...sorry

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I can prove failures associated with the same, but think of this as a tip of iceberg. What happen with Kigamboni bridge 5 years now.
How is the retiree benefit from their contributions looking at life after retirement

Nguruvi3 said:

You're right, no need to invest into another corrupted Organization. Please allow me to set the record clear.
This is my position without twist and turn.
1. Clean the Tanesco first and give it autonomy free from unnecessary intervention by outsiders or agents.
2. NSSF should think of working together with Tanesco using the extant infrastructure.
3. Then looming power crisis has prompted NSSF to act on Kiwira ASAP. Isn't a rush!! Was Kiwira project in plan three years ago?
4. Tanesco and NSSF have lots in common in terms of management, don't you see that one failure could reflect another.
5. Are you complacent that NSSF has fulfilled its basic obligations before embarking into more complicated project like kiwira.

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1.agree
2.Nope,once cleaned and overhauled,TANESCO can be the most competent company in electricty supply than any other...not even close!
3.agree,but thats like getting beyonce when you expected let say.....Ray C?
4.No,NSSF can easily disregard government intervention,TANESCO depends on government.
5.Funny...I'm just a regular guy but....Ithink I answered that.

kobello said:

Where the assurance came from?....It's easy,
NSSF collects 200m$ annually,TANESCO runs in subsidies.

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Inatumia kiasi gani kwa mwaka?

NSSF owns the government through treasury bonds worth 186m$ plus loans from UDOM,POLICE,TPDF...while TANESCO is owned by a broke government as a liability.
NSSF can easily inject private capital,a lot of tanzanians here in the US are eyeing NSSF membership while TANESCO is a laughing stock of private investors.
NSSF automatically collects money,while TANESCO can't collect money even from their existing customers.
Honestly,apart from "fisadi conpiracy theories" you haven't shown us how TANESCO is a better bidder!
PS:STAMICO and TANESCO failed to produce amid a flock of experts,so don't throw the expertise card,it's the management that really matters.

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a. NSSF imesamehe madeni yenye thamani ya kiasi gani ambayo hayalipiki?
b. Katika uwekezaji wake wa hisa imepata dividends ya kiasi gani?

Nguruvi3 said:

I can prove failures associated with the same, but think of this as a tip of iceberg. What happen with Kigamboni bridge 5 years now.
How is the retiree benefit from their contributions looking at life after retirement

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Nah!...Think of this as two people fighting over a bar tab while the ship is about to hit an iceberg!..Kigamboni bridge project had to be halted after the dutch partner pulled out.

Mzee Mwanakijiji said:

Inatumia kiasi gani kwa mwaka?



a. NSSF imesamehe madeni yenye thamani ya kiasi gani ambayo hayalipiki?
b. Katika uwekezaji wake wa hisa imepata dividends ya kiasi gani?

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Dude!!! I'm just a normal person,all that information is too much for my head...I like partying and chasing girls better than politics,but I have enough common sense to separate synicism from the truth.
PS:I'm more into Rachel maddow/Keith Olberman than Glenn Beck/Rush Limbaugh.... But I admire your patriotism Mzee Mwanakijiji!

kobello said:

Dude!!! I'm just a normal person,all that information is too much for my head...I like partying and chasing girls better than politics,but I have enough common sense to separate synicism from the truth.
PS:I'm more into Rachel maddow/Keith Olberman than Glenn Beck/Rush Limbaugh.... But I admire your patriotism Mzee Mwanakijiji!

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hahaha.. you just gave me some ideas of what to do for the weekend..

Mzee Mwanakijiji said:

hahaha.. you just gave me some ideas of what to do for the weekend..

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Seriously..... I hope u dont mean the "chasing girls" part....!

Xyln said:

Seriously..... I hope u dont mean the "chasing girls" part....!

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Inabidi uje na maelezo kwanza..... maana.. this is not like you. And no.. not that part..

Mzee Mwanakijiji said:

Inabidi uje na maelezo kwanza..... maana.. this is not like you. And no.. not that part..

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Phew!! feeling very relieved...
Nilipata shock kidogo when u were onto that idea of spendin the weekend...!
Maana that did not seem like you at all....:tongue:

kobello said:

3.agree,but thats like getting beyonce when you expected let say.....Ray C?
4.No,NSSF can easily disregard government intervention,TANESCO depends on government.

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Kobello, I could imagine what is going on in your mind. The problem is not the name like Tanesco, NSSF, TRC, UDA etc as you believe. Changing the names will not have any impact iota.Think of this:
Government abandoned TTCL in favor of celtel. What's the result
Government abandoned UDA and venture in Dala dala, you see the chaos in city!.
Govern. Abandoned TRC to invest into Beyonce TRL, see what's going on now.

Just few examples to prove that clean up is more important than changing the name under the same label i.e. Government.
Please prove to me if UDA, TTC, TRC and the likes could not dissociate or disregard the government interference, how could our beloved Beyonce NSSF do without.

MTAZAMO said:

Ikiwa CAG basi atangaze tender hasa ipate international recognised Audit firm espicially big 4 ambao kwa mfumo wa utendaji wao itatoka genuine report maana sheria inamruhusu kufanya hivyo maana akiifanya CAG mwenyewe ingawa sheria zinamlinda lakini anaweza kuingiliwa during work in progress ambayo huvuruga report.kama tuna nia njema nafikiri baada ya kuumwa na nyoka tuwe makini na kila tunachofanya hatutaki baadae kuwa na mjadala wa nssf kuomba serikali kuisaidia kulipa wanachama wake!

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Hakuna cha big 4, mmoja wa big4 hao alifanya Audit ya PPF kwa mahesabu ya 2008, akauona uizi wa wakurugenzi wa Bilion 1.2 akafukia eti PPF wamewaonyesha barua ya Katibu Mkuu Kiongozi Bw. Luhanjo kuwa amebariki ufujaji huo hivyo hawawezi kuendelea na hiyo hoj kwani wa kumpelekea kesha pigwa dongo la macho na ERIO wa PPF

Kwa hata kwa NSSF itakuwa hivyo hivyo

Nguruvi3 said:

Kobello, I could imagine what is going on in your mind. The problem is not the name like Tanesco, NSSF, TRC, UDA etc as you believe. Changing the names will not have any impact iota.Think of this:
Government abandoned TTCL in favor of celtel. What's the result
Government abandoned UDA and venture in Dala dala, you see the chaos in city!.
Govern. Abandoned TRC to invest into Beyonce TRL, see what's going on now.

Just few examples to prove that clean up is more important than changing the name under the same label i.e. Government.
Please prove to me if UDA, TTC, TRC and the likes could not dissociate or disregard the government interference, how could our beloved Beyonce NSSF do without.

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Those companies are subsidized by the government,NSSF owns the government through treasury bonds and loans.
It's easier for politics to overshadow principles when the parastatal is broke.