Mwalimu Nyerere na ukabila

VoiceOfReason · Jun 11, 2011

Geza Ulole said:
Vijiji vya ujamaa ilikuwa ni flawed concept yaani kumtoa mtu kwenye shamba lake la mamia ya hectares kumpeleka kwenye kajishamba cha hecta mbili ili mradi tu uweze kumletea huduma ambazo afterall hazikufika! ukisahau uzalishaji utapungua vp? hivi economist wake alikuwa nani?

Ukweli ni kwamba Ujamaa doesnt work..., lakini mimi na wewe tunajua hayo because of hindsight, baada ya kuona from history, na ujamaa haufanyi kazi sio sababu ya utekelezaji, bali ni sababu binadamu ni wachoyo na tuna ubinafsi, hatukuwezi kuishi wote sawa na kugawana mali kwa usawa, umimi ni mwingi kwahiyo hata King Solomon angekuwa ndio kiongozi sidhani kama anaweza akafanya Ujamaa a Success..,

Kuhusu kuwaweka watu pamoja na kuweletea huduma haikuwa flawed.., kama ingetekelezwa it was a good idea..., hii nchi ni kubwa wasambaze watu nchi nzima wapelekee huduma zote muhimu ili tuondoe Ujinga, na Umaskini... After All Umoja ni Nguvu Utengano ni Dhaifu..... (If only it can work)

The Boss · Jun 11, 2011

Mwita Maranya said:
Signature ya invisible ina maneno kwamba ficha upumbavu wako, onyesha hekima yako.

Leo hii tunaelekea kutimiza miaka 12 tangu mwalimu alipofariki lakini bado sehemu kubwa ya watanzania wanamkumbuka na kufanya reference kwake, wanafanya reference kwa uchapaji kazi wake, wanafanya reference kwa uzalendo wake, wanafanya reference kwa uwajibikaji wake, wanafanya reference kwa uongozi wake mahiri na kila aina ya utendaji wake.

Huwezi kumlinganisha mwalimu na hawa wanamagamba wa sasahivi, mwalimu alikuwa na vision sio hawa vilaza wa sasa hivi. Wewe mwenyewe huwezi kujilinganisha na mwalimu at any level na katika jambo lolote, ni mwendawazimu tu ndiye anaweza kusimama mbele ya hadhara na kusema kwamba mwalimu alikuwa na mawazo finyu, ni mwendawazimu pekee anyeweza kufanya hivyo!!
Eti ime-mcost? imemcost nini? kufariki? hilo nalo ni jambo la ajabu?kwani mwalimu hakuwa mwanadamu?mwanadamu kufa ni lazima au wewe unadhani mwalimu alikuwa malaika?

Kama tatizo lako ni tv, ni tatizo lako binafsi, si tatizo la watanzania wengi, kuna watu ndani ya nchi hii tv sio kipaumbele kwao
Radio ndio chombo pekee cha mawassiliano kinachoweza kuwafikia hata wale walioko vijijini mno, ambao angalau wanaweza kumudu kununua kiredio cha mkulima na kusikiliza. Kwahiyo hotuba zake kutokuwepo kwenye tv sio issue kabisa as long sauti yake ipo kwenye audio, mtu akitaka kupata ujumbe wa mwalimu anaupata. Tatizo lako nadhani unapenda kuuza sura kama viongozi wako wa sasahivi wanavyopenda kuuza sura ndio maana unalalam kutokuiona sura ya mwalimu kwenye tv. Mwalimu alikuwa anajali zaidi kuchapa kazi na kuwatumikia watanzania, sio kama hawa wasanii wenu wanaopenda kuuza sura lakini utendaji na uwajibikaji ni sifuri!!

sijui kama toka uzaliwe umewahi kukutana na msemo huu

a picture is worth a thousands words...

pole sana

ina maana hujui tofauti ya radio na tv?
basi hata tofauti ya gazeti na internet hujui

huyo kikwete bila kumuona kwenye tv mnafikiri mngeweza hata
kumchachafya??????/

kwenye tv watu wanaona,wanasoma body language
wanajua huyu anaongea ukweli au la....

na faida nyingine tele..
umewahi jiuliza ajira ambazo tv imeleta?????direct na indirect???????

viwanda vilikufa kwa sababu hakuruhusu ushindani
wa biashara....

vya serikali vilikuwa peke yake na ubwanyenye kibao...

watanzania aliwanyima nafssi ya kujifunza biashara wenyewe

Mwita Maranya · Jun 11, 2011

Geza Ulole said:
sasa yeye serikali yake ilikuwa inafanya nini kukusanya kodi tu na kuzi-misallocate sio? na kama hata kuzitaifisha then angeweka fixed time yaani nataifisha kwa miaka 10 ili baba zetu wasome halafu azirudishe kwa wamiliki wake? ama that doesnt make sense to you? mbona mpaka leo nyingi bado zipo chini ya serikali? na zinaoza hazina uangalizi mzuri? ukweli huyu jamaa alipenda shortcuts hata vijiji vya ujamaa ilikuwa ni flawed concept yaani kumtoa mtu kwenye shamba lake la mamia ya hectares kumpeleka kwenye kajishamba cha hecta mbili ili mradi tu uweze kumletea huduma ambazo afterall hazikufika! ukisahau uzalishaji utapungua vp? hivi economist wake alikuwa nani?

Hivi nchi ndo punde tu imepata uhuru, ilikuwa na vyanzo vingapi vya mapato ambavyo vingeiwezesha serkali kutekeleza mahitaji ya watanzania kwa mara moja?? Kulikuwa na wafanyakazi wangapi ambao wangelipa kodi na kuiongezea seriali kipato?

Unafahamu fika kwamba kipindi cha utawala wa mwalimu ndicho kipindi pekee katika historia ya marais wa nchi hii ambapo fedha ya serikali ilikuwa haiwezi kuchezewa kirahisi rahisi kama tunavyoshuhudia wakati huu wa ufisadi na mikataba feki.

Kwa kuzingatia kwamba nchi imepata uhuru huku ikiwa na wasomi wachache sana kiasi kwamba ilibidi kuagiza nguvukazi kutoka nje ya nchi ilikuwa ni jambo la busara mno kutaifisha shule za kidini zilizokuwepo ili kujenga taifa la watu wa aina moja.

Vinginevyo watu wa aina fulani ndio wangeendelea kupata elimu wakati wenzao wakiangalia. Kwa kuzingatia kwamba pamoja na kutaifisha shule za dini na mashirika mbali walionufaika ni watanzania wote pasipo kujali rangi zao, dini zao, kabila zao na maeneo yao ya kuzaliwa basi jambo hilo haliwezi kutajwa kama kuliwarudisha nyuma kimaendeleo.

Vinginevyo hata mimi huenda ningekuwa sasa hivi niko Mugumu huko ninachunga ng'ombe na kulima mtama na muhogo, usingenikuta hapa JF, kwa hili mwalimu anastahili pongezi kubwa.

Jasusi · Jun 11, 2011

The Boss said:
kuna story ameandika edwin mtei
kwenye kitabu chake ukiisoma

na ukisikia uvumi kuwa alikuwa na matatizo ya kama ugonjwa hivi wa mentall hivi unaweza connect the dots

mfano nyerere alikuwa impulsive sana

analipuka lipuka mno....

kwenye kitabu mtei anasema aliwapeleka wazungu wa imf ikulu,
nyerere badala hata ya kuwasikilza na kukataa,akasusa kuonana nao.
wakati mwanzo alikubali waje ikulu.
yaani aibu tupu,mtei akamkuta nyerere yuko nje ya ikulu kanuna hataki hata kuongea...

na ukichanganya na jinsi zoezi la vijiji vya ujamaa lilivyopelekwa

yaani watu walihamishwa wakapelekwa kwenye mapori waanzishe hivyo vijiji wengine wakaliwa na simba

na ukiangalia mfano sera yake ya marufuku magari,ni baiskeli tu

unaweza ona

The Boss,
Naona wewe ndiye unayetakiwa kukisoma tena hicho kitabu cha Mzee Mtei. Aliyoyaelezea juu ya huo mkutano na maafisa wa IMF ( hawakuwa wote wazungu kwa sababu najua miongoni mwao alikuwemo raia wa Uganda) ni tofauti na jinsi unavyoelezea hapa kwenye bandiko lako. Hakuna sababu ya kuandika upya au kupotosha historia.

Geza Ulole · Jun 11, 2011

VoiceOfReason said:
Okay wahaya na wachagga walikuwa ndio wasomi kwahiyo aliwapa uongozi wa chini sio urais (as you know someone has got to be a leader) lakini baadhi yao walikuwa na different opinions kuhusu kuiendesha nchi.

Now this was mapungufu ya Nyerere "it was either his way or the highway".. kwahiyo hao viongozi wengine kina Kambona (wahaya) walitaka kumpindua so akawapotezea..., alafu hawa wasomi wangekuwa wanambishia while he wanted people to agree with him (another bad side ya Mwalimu), so kina Kawawa the Yes man ndio walikuwa perfect for his team.., after all ukiwa kwenye Jahazi unahitaji watu wanaokusikiliza especially on those days...

Lakini all in all he was a good leader na Mzalendo wa Kweli

Ninachoweza kumsifu mimi ni kupinga kwake rushwa, na hiyo tu ingetosha kuweka nchi hii katika mstari sawa lakini wenye neema kwa vile overall alikuwa na element za good governance lakini ile kuingilia ustawi wa kiuchumi katika dhana ya kuweka usawa simkubali hapo.

Maana watu wameumbwa na hulka tofauti, ukiangalia vizuri wale waliokuwa na maendeleo yalitokana na juhudi zao aidha binafsi au katika vikundi.

Huwezi kumchukua leo Mzaramo ukampa chama cha ushirika aendeshe from nowhere anatakiwa awe amejengeka kifikra na mazingira pia. Ndio maana hata kama Mchagga na Mzaramo watakuwa na elimu moja mazingira na fikra inaweza kumfanya mmoja akawa best suited kuongoza chama cha ushirika kutokana tu na addition advantage yaani malezi yake ya kujua jinsi kahawa inavyolimwa pia muda gani wa kuiosha, kuikausha na muda gani wa kuipeleka sokoni na kadhalika.

That is a plus... likewise Mzaramo can be best suited katika uvuvi compared to Mchagga.

VoiceOfReason · Jun 11, 2011

The Boss said:
mbona internet ina porno kuliko chombo chochote?
je ipigwe marufuku???????/

angekuwepo nyerere hata jamiiforums isingekuwepo

Ukweli ni kwamba its easy kuwatawala watu wajinga kuliko werevu, angeruhusu challenge kipindi hicho ingekuwa kama familia ambayo baba mama na watoto wote wana masharubu, mpaka leo nchi kama China na nchi nyingi tu bado zinazuia baadhi ya habari, and that was a critical time iliyoitaji dictatorship, ili tuweze kusonga mbele..., I'm not saying kwamba aliyoyafanya ni mazuri lakini alikuwa tayari kutumia mbinu zote kufika anapotaka...,

Na angeruhusu to be questioned sidhani kama tungefika popote...., am a great believer kwamba kuna nchi nyingine ukizipa demokrasia mambo hayaendi.... A good example is Iraq and Saddam... jamaa ingawa alikuwa anawapelekesha lakini ilikuwa bora kuliko what is happening now where there is a power vacuum which am sure it might happen to Libya as well.

Mwita Maranya · Jun 11, 2011

The Boss said:
wewe una matatizo ya kuelewa
sasa ntajaribu tena kukuelewesha labda itasaidia....

hakuna sehemu niliposema nyerere alikuwa hafai kuongoza
au alikuwa mtu mbaya sana

Naona unajaribu kukimbia kivuli chako mwenyewe, vinginevyo wewe ndo una matatizo ya kuelewa ama la hata unachokitetea hukijui.
Angalia utumbo ulioandika dhidi ya mwalimu Nyerere!!!

The Boss said:
yaani nyerere mawazo yake yalikuwa finyu mpaka na yeye yamem cost

Mshume Kiyate · Jun 11, 2011

Hawa sitaki hata kumsikia Mwl Nyerere, alikuwa ana roho mbaya sana nimeuona utawala wake wa kidikiteta. Alimkamata Mzee wangu eti muhujumi uchumi duka lake likikuwa na dazeni kumi za kanga kutoka mwatex, na dola 500, miaka ya 80. Alikuwa mkabila pia alichaguwa waziri mkuu na, mkuu wa majeshi kutoka kwao mkoa wa MARA

Sooth · Jun 11, 2011

zomba said:
Kwanza unakosea unaposema watu wengi walimpenda sana. Naomba kukufahamisha kuwa mimi nilikuwepo kabla, alipokuwepo, na baada yake. Nyerere hakupendwa na wengi kama unavyotakiwa kufikiria, Nyerere alilazimisha kupendwa, ukionesha kumpinga unapotezwa au unaswekwa ndani. Nyerere kisha koswa kupinduliwa mara nyingi tu kuliko Rais mwingine yoyote wa Tanzania.Mengine hayo utajaza mwenyewe.

Jitihada za Kupinduliwa kwa Nyerere hazihusiani na kuchukiwa, bali ni COLD WAR na kipindi kigumu kimaisha tulichokuwa tunapitia wakati ule. Rejea Speech ya Nyerere kwa bunge la South Africa 1997 (kuhusu cold war na kupinduliwa kwa viongozi wa Africa) na pia kitabu cha Ludovick Mwijage ("The dark side of Nyerere legacy). Cold war imeisha na Viongozi waliofuatia hawana influence ktk siasa za kimataifa (Africa) kama Nyerere na harakati za ukombozi kusini mwa Africa, so they are not a threat to anyone- kwanini wapinduliwe?

Anko Sam · Jun 11, 2011

FaizaFoxy said:
Hee babu lile, waislaam kawanyanyasa sana, kumbe hata makabila mengine alikuwa anayanyanyasa? ndio maana ile hotuba yake moja anawasannif wakara? mungu amuweke anapostahili.

Duh huyu nyoka mwenye kujivua gamba anatokea wapi? Mbona anataka kuvuruga kikao!

FaizaFoxy · Jun 11, 2011

Mwita Maranya said:
Faiza welcome back baby!!you know some of us loves you much. You must relook at your attitude when discussing issues of public interest.Why associating each and everything with islam?? why always discussing issues with an islamic eyes??Come on Faiza try to be realistic. Angalizo: usinishangae kwa kidhungu changu cha kayumba school!!!

Have you finished with Geza Ulole?Nyerere was a super destroyer, he had what, in myths, they call the "midas touch" what he touched turned into stone. Nyerere was scared of everything big, may it be a big tribe or any other major ethnic. Similarly Islam, you can never talk about ethnic descrimination without touching major religious ethnics. Islam being a major religion at the time, nyerere never was ashamed of clipping its wings. By the way, why discuss about unions if you are discussing tribes?

The Boss · Jun 11, 2011

Mwita Maranya said:
Naona unajaribu kukimbia kivuli chako mwenyewe, vinginevyo wewe ndo una matatizo ya kuelewa ama la hata unachokitetea hukijui.
Angalia utumbo ulioandika dhidi ya mwalimu Nyerere!!!

wewe ndo unaona utumbo

utumbo ni wale wote wanaomuona nyerere alikuwa nabii hivi
na eti mtakatifu fulani hivi......

baadhi ya mawzo ya nyerere yalikuwa finyu na finyu mno
period...
kiongozi mzima alikuwa anasema eti serikali idhibiti magari kwa sababu baiskeli zinatosha kabisa

hiyo ilikuwa 1987 yeye ni mwenyekiti wa ccm waka huo,mwinyi ndie rais
ujinga mtupu

Sooth · Jun 11, 2011

The Boss said:
Kila aliempinga alionja joto yajiwe

waulize kina bibi titi,kambona,edwin mtei na wengine weengi

Bibi Titi hakumpinga Mwalimu, bali alikuwamo ktk mpango wa kumpindua, na kumpindua Rais ni uhaini. Kitu kizuri ni kwamba hawakunyongwa, hata bibi titi alisamehewa baada ya kutumikia kifungo kwa muda.

Geza Ulole · Jun 11, 2011

Mwita Maranya said:
Hivi nchi ndo punde tu imepata uhuru, ilikuwa na vyanzo vingapi vya mapato ambavyo vingeiwezesha serkali kutekeleza mahitaji ya watanzania kwa mara moja?? Kulikuwa na wafanyakazi wangapi ambao wangelipa kodi na kuiongezea seriali kipato?

Unafahamu fika kwamba kipindi cha utawala wa mwalimu ndicho kipindi pekee katika historia ya marais wa nchi hii ambapo fedha ya serikali ilikuwa haiwezi kuchezewa kirahisi rahisi kama tunavyoshuhudia wakati huu wa ufisadi na mikataba feki.

Kwa kuzingatia kwamba nchi imepata uhuru huku ikiwa na wasomi wachache sana kiasi kwamba ilibidi kuagiza nguvukazi kutoka nje ya nchi ilikuwa ni jambo la busara mno kutaifisha shule za kidini zilizokuwepo ili kujenga taifa la watu wa aina moja. Vinginevyo watu wa aina fulani ndio wangeendelea kupata elimu wakati wenzao wakiangalia.

Kwa kuzingatia kwamba pamoja na kutaifisha shule za dini na mashirika mbali walionufaika ni watanzania wote pasipo kujali rangi zao, dini zao, kabila zao na maeneo yao ya kuzaliwa basi jambo hilo haliwezi kutajwa kama kuliwarudisha nyuma kimaendeleo vinginevyo hata mimi huenda ningekuwa sasahivi niko mugumu huko ninachunga ng'ombe na kulima mtama na muhogo, usingenikuta hapa jf, kwa hili mwalimu anastahili pongezi kubwa.

Kama alishindwa kufanya hivyo then hakuwa qualified ku-rule the country, kwanini basi, aliomba uhuru maana that means hakuweza ku-meet expectations alizoongelea katika kupigania uhuru.

Au kwanini asi-resign, he wasnt a hard worker basi kushindwa kujenga hata shule kuwezesha kila Mtanzania kusoma bali kutaifisha zilizopo maana nathani immediately baada ya kupata uhuru alitoa national deveolopment plan kama aliyotoa Kikwete hapo juzi! akisema anatarajia kufanya nini katika miaka kumi.

VoiceOfReason · Jun 11, 2011

FaizaFoxy said:
Similarly Islam, you can never talk about ethnic descrimination without touching major religious ethnics. Islam being a major religion at the time, nyerere never was ashamed of clipping its wings. By the way, why discuss about unions if you are discussing tribes?

In privatising mission schools so everyone of whichever faith could study, wasn't that got for islam.., and there is no leader in the world who does not protect himself especially in those times just after independence it was easy to be toppled down.., you had to be afraid of even your own shadow.., if you have forgetten Kambona, Uncle Tom and others nearly succeded in putting him down... therefore the guy had many negatives but lets give credit when its due..., and lets not magnify the negatives by making a mountain from a mole hill.

The Boss · Jun 11, 2011

VoiceOfReason said:
Ukweli ni kwamba its easy kuwatawala watu wajinga kuliko werevu, angeruhusu challenge kipindi hicho ingekuwa kama familia ambayo baba mama na watoto wote wana masharubu, mpaka leo nchi kama China na nchi nyingi tu bado zinazuia baadhi ya habari, and that was a critical time iliyoitaji dictatorship, ili tuweze kusonga mbele..., I'm not saying kwamba aliyoyafanya ni mazuri lakini alikuwa tayari kutumia mbinu zote kufika anapotaka...,

Na angeruhusu to be questioned sidhani kama tungefika popote...., am a great believer kwamba kuna nchi nyingine ukizipa demokrasia mambo hayaendi.... A good example is Iraq and Saddam... jamaa ingawa alikuwa anawapelekesha lakini ilikuwa bora kuliko what is happening now where there is a power vacuum which am sure it might happen to Libya as well.

by nature binadamu ni watu huru
hakuna kitu kama too much freedom

huko iraq na libya ni lazima wapitie stages zote za freedom
kama wangekuwa na freedom japo kidogo yasingefika haya

mbona south africa walisema haitaweza kuishi kwa amani
na imewezekana so far

The Boss · Jun 11, 2011

ngondya said:
Bibi Titi hakumpinga Mwalimu, bali alikuwamo ktk mpango wa kumpindua, na kumpindua Rais ni uhaini. Kitu kizuri ni kwamba hawakunyongwa, hata bibi titi alisamehewa baada ya kutumikia kifungo kwa muda.

wewe acha uwongo wewe
huo mpango wa kumpindua zilikuwa njama zake nyerere za kudhibiti
wote waliopigania uhuru ili wasimkumbushe makubaliano ya kabla ya uhuru

yaani hata baraza la wazee la tanu lilitaka kumpindua nyerere???????/

VoiceOfReason · Jun 11, 2011

Geza Ulole said:
kama alishindwa kufanya hivyo then kwanini aliomba uhuru maana that means hakuweza ku-meet expectations! au kwanini asi-resign, he wasnt a hard worker basi kushindwa kujenga hata shule kuwezesha kila Mtanzania kusoma bali kutaifisha zilizopo maana nathani immediately baada ya kupata uhuru alitoa national deveolopment plan kama aliyotoa Kikwete hapo juzi! akisema anatarajia kufanya nini katika miaka kumi!

Binadamu kwanza anatambaa kabla hajaweza kukimbia..., we had to start from somewhere, na mtu mmoja hawezi akafanya all the changes, especially the Ujamaa policy being flawed. Angalia sasa miaka 50 baada ya uhuru ni kipi tumekifanya?

Maybe its time tuanze kujiangalia na sisi wenyewe labda kuna something seriously wrong in our heads..., kama sisi tumeshindwa na tuna wasomi na kukusanya kodi nyingi na tunajipongeza, sidhani kama itakuwa bora kumsingizia Nyerere kwamba hakuna alichokifanya.

After all mwenyewe alisema kuna mengi mazuri na mabaya mengi tumeyafanya.., kwahiyo tuyaache mabaya na kuendeleza mazuri, lakini it seems we are going the opposite way.

Mwita Maranya · Jun 11, 2011

FaizaFoxy said:
Have you finished with Geza Ulole?Nyerere was a super destroyer, he had what, in myths, they call the "midas touch" what he touched turned into stone. Nyerere was scared of everything big, may it be a big tribe or any other major ethnic. Similarly Islam, you can never talk about ethnic descrimination without touching major religious ethnics. Islam being a major religion at the time, nyerere never was ashamed of clipping its wings. By the way, why discuss about unions if you are discussing tribes?

Forum hii si ya Gezaulole na Mwita Maranya,
Umetoka jela na kukuta mjadala unaendelea tukiwa tunazungumzia dhana ya ukabila enzi za utawala wa mwalimu Nyerere lakini naona wewe unaingiza hoja yako ya udini. Kama unataka tujadli hoja ya udini unaelewa utaratibu, ifungulie thread tutaichangia. Si ustaarabu hata kidogo (na uislamu unasisitiza hilo) kuja kuharibu thread ya mwenzako wakati unao uwezo na nafasi ya kujadili hoja yako pahali pengine panapohusika.

Hebu anzisha thread yako, na mimi nitakuja unionyeshe takwimu zinazothibitisha kwamba islam ni major religious ethnic.
Tafadhali kuwa mstaarabu na muungwana kama kweli wewe ni muislamu wa kweli!!

Geza Ulole · Jun 11, 2011

VoiceOfReason said:
Binadamu kwanza anatambaa kabla hajaweza kukimbia..., we had to start from somewhere, na mtu mmoja hawezi akafanya all the changes, especially the Ujamaa policy being flawed. Angalia sasa miaka 50 baada ya uhuru ni kipi tumekifanya..??, maybe its time tuanze kujiangalia na sisi wenyewe labda kuna something seriously wrong in our heads..., kama sisi tumeshindwa na tuna wasomi na kukusanya kodi nyingi na tunajipongeza, sidhani kama itakuwa bora kumsingizia Nyerere kwamba hakuna alichokifanya.... After all mwenyewe alisema kuna mengi mazuri na mabaya mengi tumeyafanya.., kwahiyo tuyaache mabaya na kuendeleza mazuri, lakini it seems we are going the opposite way.

mere excuses, tume-fail kwa ville tumekuwa na watawala wanaoturudisha nyuma kwa maslahi yao binafsi ya kuendelea kuwa madarakani not visionary! katika Watanzania, wapo ambao walijitahidi kutumikia taifa hili kama wale waliojiweka kwenye ushirika na kulipa kodi na kuliletea taifa hili fedha za kigeni! Je Nyerere aliwasaidia vp? au aliwafanya nini? nathani unajua aliwaona threat na aliwakandamiza na kuwalazimisha through dictated economy kuwa kama wale waliolala badala ya kuwaamsha wale walio usingizini kuwa kama wale walio macho! fikra za kijamaa zili-police hata kile kilichokuwa na manufaa kwa jamii kiujumla na kuua hata that goose that lays egg!

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