Kiranga
Platinum Member
- Jan 29, 2009
- 88,000
- 153,670
I am going deeper into the topic, not out of topic.
Just because your knowledge of the topic is shallow do not take the depth to be "out of topic".
Terms husika zipi?
Ni kweli sijawahi wasikia il a nimesoma hayo majina kwenye Misale ya waumini.don't go out of the topic dude tupe tofauti ya terms husika.mwalimu Wang alizoea kutuambia fabricando fit Faber kama nakumbuka spelling.tuonyeshe umahiri kwanza kwa kutueleza utofauti.halafu kutoka nje tu ya topic ni FAILURE
This circuitous faulty argument would work only if Kiranga must be created by god, the very thing in dispute here, since Kiranga disputes the very existence of god.
Your very signature says side with seekers, and do not believe those who claim to have found the truth.
In saying that god is the answers, people are claiming to have found the truth.
In saying that we need to search some more beyond the god idea, I am seeking, not claiming to have found the truth.
Your own signature points to the fallacy of the godhead idea.
Hivi unaweza kutengeneza kitu kibovu ili kitu kizuri ulichotengeneza kiweze kuonekana? Toyota Motors watengeneza magari machache mabovu ili magari yao makali yapate utukufu! Si ndio wataharibu market ya magari mazuri? It does not make any sense whatsoever!Ulichokiandika kina mantiki fulani ila mimi ninaweza kusema labda Mungu anawaumba hawa vilema ili utukufu/matendo yake makuu yaweze kuonekana au unasemaje?
Okay, kwa hiyo tukiona vilema ndio tunamkumbuka Mungu, kwamba anatutisha kuwa atatugeuza vilema au ni vipi? Tukimwaga ugali atamwaga mboga, nothing short of laughable.Pasingekuwa na watu kama hawa kila kitu kingekuwa sawa hakuna mtu ambaye angemkumbuka Mungu.
Okay, ni kweli kabisa, kwamba sina akili.kuliko kilema cha akili.Kushindwa kufikiri na kuelewa,kama wewe yaonyesha una ukilema wa akili,unashindwa kuelewa.
sweetbaby;Da I like this kind of thinking & analysis .thumb up
Mungu anayehitaji kuumba vilema ili utukufu wake uonekane hana utukufu.
Ana standards za morality zilizo chini ya za mwanadamu.
Mungu kumuumba binadamu kilema ili utukufu wake uonekanewakati ana uwezo wa kumuumba mzima ni sawa na baba kukmkata mtoto wake mguu kwa makusudi ili tu ubaba wake uonekane.
That is one sicko god if you ask me.
Kama mungu kweli ana uwezo wa yote basi angekuwa na uwezo wa kuumba ulimwengu ambao hauna vilema, halafu bado tukawa na uwezo wa kumtambua, hata kama angeweka bango tu juu angani linalosema "Niabuduni mimi mungu niko huku juu".
Ukichunguza sana utaona hizi habari za mungu ni kamba tu. Hazina uthibitisho wala consistency.
Yes my signature says it. It might scientifically be true, but then if you take it that way (as you have relied it in your argument here), then you are faced with the paradox of having found the truth using the same statement that denies the very existence of it. and in that way, it will always have an effect of sending you into a spiral of contradictions as well as confusions. However, this applies only in the phsical world.
In the spiritual realm, things become very different, where each person finds the truth using mechanisms that are quiet different from another person and which cannot in any way, be shared between persons.
Ngoja nikupe kisa cha ukweli kati ya vingi tu ambavyo nimeshawahi kuvishuhudia. Kuna siku tulikuwa nyumbani kijijini, (nadhani ilikuwa mwaka 1978) mwenzetu mmoja (10 yrs old kid) akaamka asubuhi akatusimulia kisa kuwa mwenzetu ambaye alikuwa ameondoka nyumbani tangu mwaka 1975, na alikuwa hajawahi kurudi nyumbani hata mara moja tangu aondoke, kamuota kuwa amekuja, akasema hadi nguo ambazo alikuwa amevaa. Kwenye mida ya saa 4 kweli yule mtu aliingia akiwa amevaa nguo zilezile ambazo yule mtoto alizitaja. Huyu mtoto alikuwa na visa vingi vya namna hiyo ku-predict matukio ya namna hii. Labda ninachoweza kusema ni kuwa TRUTH IS NOT FOUND BUT RATHER REVEALED, and revealation takes place only in the spritual world, not in the physical. In the phsical world, scientific instruments are used to predict the probabilistic truth and not the pure/real truth. That is why reseach is a non stop process where we seek and try to understand things differently each coming day, leading to improvement and/refuting of some already existing scientific theories. Mpaka hapa nadhani tuko pamoja ndugu yangu.
Aumba atakavyo,huko kukosa kiungo fulani ndani ya mwili wako,ndio ushahidi tosha kama yupo Mungu mwenye kufanya hayo.Kama ingelikuwa ni nature,ndio kinachofanya kila kitu,kusingekuwa na ukosekenaji kama huo,kwa sababu nature hufuata asili ya kitu bila hicho kitu kubadilika.Ila Mungu hufanya apendavyo,bila wewe binadamu kupenda ni vip iwe au uwe.Ndio mana hata wewe hukuweza kujichagulia uzaliwe vipi,jinsia gani,rangi gani,kabila gani,uwe na akili kiasi gani.Okay, ni kweli kabisa, kwamba sina akili.
Kwa nini Mungu ameumba watu wengine wana akili wengine hatuna akili?
Na kama ni bora kuwa na kilema cha kiungo kuliko kuwa na kilema cha akili kama mimi, ilikuwaje Mungu akaniumba mimi na viungo kamili na kilema cha akili ilhali akijua kabisa kwamba ni bora cha viungo kuliko cha akili? Au hakujua? Manake wakati ananiumba mimi bila akili apparently haku realize hicho kitu. Yani Mungu wako aliyekuumba ni ignorant kuliko wewe, ama?
Okay, ni kweli kabisa, kwamba sina akili.
Kwa nini Mungu ameumba watu wengine wana akili wengine hatuna akili?
Na kama ni bora kuwa na kilema cha kiungo kuliko kuwa na kilema cha akili kama mimi, ilikuwaje Mungu akaniumba mimi na viungo kamili na kilema cha akili ilhali akijua kabisa kwamba ni bora cha viungo kuliko cha akili? Au hakujua? Manake wakati ananiumba mimi bila akili apparently haku realize hicho kitu. Yani Mungu wako aliyekuumba ni ignorant kuliko wewe, ama?
Yes my signature says it. It might scientifically be true, but then if you take it that way (as you have relied it in your argument here),
then you are faced with the paradox of having found the truth
using the same statement that denies the very existence of it.
and in that way,
it will always
have an effect of sending you into a spiral of contradictions as well as confusions.
However, this applies only in the phsical world.
In the spiritual realm,
things become very different, where each person finds the truth using mechanisms that are quiet different from another person and which cannot in any way, be shared between persons.
Ngoja nikupe kisa cha ukweli kati ya vingi tu ambavyo nimeshawahi kuvishuhudia. Kuna siku tulikuwa nyumbani kijijini, (nadhani ilikuwa mwaka 1978) mwenzetu mmoja (10 yrs old kid) akaamka asubuhi akatusimulia kisa kuwa mwenzetu ambaye alikuwa ameondoka nyumbani tangu mwaka 1975, na alikuwa hajawahi kurudi nyumbani hata mara moja tangu aondoke, kamuota kuwa amekuja, akasema hadi nguo ambazo alikuwa amevaa. Kwenye mida ya saa 4 kweli yule mtu aliingia akiwa amevaa nguo zilezile ambazo yule mtoto alizitaja. Huyu mtoto alikuwa na visa vingi vya namna hiyo ku-predict matukio ya namna hii. Labda ninachoweza kusema ni kuwa TRUTH IS NOT FOUND BUT RATHER REVEALED, and revealation takes place only in the spritual world, not in the physical.
In the phsical world,
scientific instruments are used to predict the probabilistic truth and not the pure/real truth.
That is why reseach is a non stop process where we seek and try to understand things differently each coming day, leading to improvement and/refuting of some already existing scientific theories.
Mpaka hapa nadhani tuko pamoja ndugu yangu.
Mpaka sasa, Kiranga, et al wana 95% while the opponents wana 1%! The rest (ambao wana 4%) hawajui kitu. Tahadhari: Hii ni kwa mujibu wa Wachangiaji na si maoni ya Mwandishi!Mungu gani ana sense ya fairness iliyo kuwa lower than a human sense of fairness? I thought he was supposed to be better.
Chochote kinachofanywa na viumbe,duniani ujuwe ipo nguvu nyuma yake.
Kama ingekuwa hakuna nguvu hiyo,Ambayo ndiye Mungu muweza,
yasingetokea hayo.
Unazaliwa bila kujijuwa,bila wewe kuchagua uzaliwe wapi,na uzaliwe kabila gani,rangi gani,jinsia gani,urefu gani,akili za namna gani.
Na pia huwezi kuchagua kufa au usife,
Wakati ule anaoutaka huyo aliyekuumba
ndio unakufa,bila wewe kupanga siku ya kufa,wala kuijuwa.
Ikiwa una akili zilizotimia,na zinazofanyakazi,kufa kwa kiumbe chochote,ikiwa pamoja na binadamu,ni somo tosha la kujuwa kuwa yupo anaendesha maisha yako,
bila ya hiyari yako,ambaye ni Mungu,muweza,asiyeshindwa na chochote.
Ukiweza kujiondolea expire date yako,usife,hapo unaweza ukasema hakuna anayendesha maisha yangu.
Lakini hujui mda,wala siku,wala saa,wala eneo gani,mji gani,na utakufa vipi.kwa ajali au ugnjwa,au usingizini au utaanguka ghafla,ujuwe yupo Mungu,anayeyafanya yote hayo.
Ndio lakini kwa tabu na mateso makali.
Theory ya uumbaji hai make sense. Mimi binadamu wa kawaida mwenye madhambi kibao namuonea huruma huyu mwenzangu, iweje Mungu ambae yeye tunaambiwa ni Mungu wa upendo Mungu wa huruma hana huruma? Hizi imani za Mungu uwepo wa mtu kwenye mawingu anaeumba vilema halafu anasifiwa ni total nonsense na binadamu anazikubali hook line and sinker. Duuuh....
Sawa, the second law of thermodynamics explains that in closed systems entropy tends to increase, ndiyo maana tunahitaji kufagia, kula, kuweka mafuta kwenye magari etc.
Kwa hiyo hili si geni na lishaelezewa bila kumuhitaji mungu. We do not need "the god hypthesis" in this.
Hapa umeruka na "ku force king".
Unajuaje kwamba nguvu hiyo ni mungu muweza na si mabaki ya irrational numbers, au tambiko la Wachagga wenye miguu mitatu wanaoishi juu ya mlima Kilimanjaro? Au the Kaluza Klein manifold manifestation of the 541st spatial dimension of a string theory's brane colliding with four mirrored wormholes at the edge of negative two multiverses receding in the 36th imaginary temporal dimension which happens to be the 36th Chamber of the art of the covenant of the Wu Tang Clan and the Asimovian Book of Quest for Nighfall?
Unajuaje? Ushawahi kuwepo kwenye ulimwengu ambao hauna mungu na kuona kwamba hayawezekani?
Totally irrelevant. Kuzaliwa bila kujijua si uthibitisho kwamba kuna mungu.
Totally irrelevant. Kutoweza kuchagua wakati wa kufa si proof kwamba mungu yupo.
This is a logical non-sequitur. The latter does not follow from the former. Just because hatuwezi kuzuia kufa haimaanishi kwamba hilo lina prove kuwapo kwa mungu. Second law of thermodynamics inaelezea kwa nini tunakufa, sio sisi tu, mpaka nyota na ulimwengu utakufa. Huhitaji mungu kuelezea entropy and how it works.
You must be the king of "forcing king" or something. Hujanionesha proof kwamba mungu yupo usharukia ku force kwamba mungu ndo anaua watu.
Tatizo umeshakunywa maji ya dini sana hata reason huwezi kufuata.
Utasemaje mungu ndiye anayesababisha kifo kabla ya ku prove kwamba yupo at all?
Kwa nini kifo kitokane na mungu? Mpaka sasa una dance na generalities tu, hujanipa sababu kwa nini kifo changu kiwe kimpangwa na mungu. Hujanionesha hata kamba mungu yupo.
Ni kama mimi nianze kukuambia kwamba kifo chako kinapangwa na Chifu wa Wachagga wenye miguu mitatu aliye juu ya mlima Kilimanjaro, bila hata ku prove kwamba yupo hata kwa picha ya Photoshop. Utaniona chizi.
Kwa nini nisikuone wewe chizi kwa kuamini huyu mungu anasababisha kifo changu hata bila ya kuwa na proof kwamba yupo?
Si kweli kwamba hashindwi chochote, even if for the sake of argument I grant he exists, ameshindwa kujidhihirisha kwangu. There is one thing ameshindwa kufanya.
Again this is a non-sequitur. The second law of thermodynamics explain why things die, all things, not only living things. It explains why cars die, buildings collapse, stars burs in supernovae and ultimately the universe will die out. You do not need god to explain death.
Kutokujua ni kutokujua. Kwa nini unaona kutokujua majibu ya maswali hayo maana yake mungu yupo?
Hujaonesha relationship ya mimi kutokujua nitakavyokufa na proof of the existence of god.
Unasema sijui nitakavyokufa, kweli.
How does that prove god exists?
Mpaka sasa, Kiranga, et al wana 95% while the opponents wana 1%! The rest (ambao wana 4%) hawajui kitu. Tahadhari: Hii ni kwa mujibu wa Wachangiaji na si maoni ya Mwandishi!
Kuna kitu kinaitwa clairvoyance...kuna watu wana nguvu hizo. Na siyo kwamba hiyo ni revelation as per the so called holy book.
Basi Kiranga, imetosha. Nimegundua kuwa wengi wetu (kama siyo 99%) tumepokea dini kama dogma tu. Hata kasisi, kuhani, padre, Mchungaji, Askofu, Shehe, Imamu, Mufti Mdogo, Mufti Mkuu, Papa, Kambare, Baba Askofu, Mama Askofu, Mama Mchungaji, Mzee wa Kanisa, Bibi wa Kanisa, Katekista, Father, Mother, Sister, Brother, Shemasi, Msharika, Mshiriki, Muumini, Mwanajumuiya (iwe ya dini au zile za CCM), Mwanakwaya au mtu awaye yeyote yule katika dini yoyote ile (save pagans), hwajui hata huyo mungu / Mungu wanayemwabudu kila wiki / siku / saa / dakika / sekunde ni nani hasa, katokea wapi, uwezo wake ukoje, na ana uhusiano gani na sisi! Kama vile mmoja nimeona akiandika eti heri aamini kuwa Mungu yupo ili hata asipokutana naye atakuwa kwenye upande salama kuliko kuamini kuwa Mungu hayupo halafu mwisho wa siku akakutana naye! Sasa wa hivi si bora tu aifute hata hiyo dhana ya Mungu? Mtu wa hivyo naye anatazamia Mungu ampeleke peponi akifa? Tena usikute ni Kiongozi ndani ya dini zao hizo! WHAT NONSENSE!