Mbowe's arrest lawful – Ndugai | JamiiForums | The Home of Great Thinkers

Dismiss Notice
You are browsing this site as a guest. It takes 2 minutes to CREATE AN ACCOUNT and less than 1 minute to LOGIN

Mbowe's arrest lawful – Ndugai

Discussion in 'Jukwaa la Sheria (The Law Forum)' started by nngu007, Jun 6, 2011.

  1. nngu007

    nngu007 JF-Expert Member

    Jun 6, 2011
    Joined: Aug 2, 2010
    Messages: 15,871
    Likes Received: 58
    Trophy Points: 145
    By In2EastAfrica - Mon Jun 06, 3:22 pm

    Deputy Speaker Job Ndugai

    Parliament has declared that it cannot interfere with the powers of the judiciary following the arrest of the Leader of the Opposition in Parliament and legislator for Hai, (Chadema), Mr Freeman Mbowe.

    As Chadema leaders on Sunday threatened to boycott Bunge sessions if Mr Mbowe is not released, the Police Force has insisted that Mr Mbowe, who is also the party's national chairman, will appear in the Arusha Resident Magistrate's Court today under police escort.

    Deputy Speaker, Mr Job Ndugai, told the ‘Daily News' on Sunday over the phone from Dodoma that the recent arrest of some of the party's top leaders followed a lawful order from the court whose powers cannot be questioned by Parliament.

    Mr Ndugai said that under normal circumstances Members of Parliament were just like any members of the public who are obliged to abide by the law of the land regardless of their positions and status.

    "MPs are protected against any civil charges only when they are in Parliament and not otherwise but as they leave the Bunge premises they are like any other person who must respect the law of the land," he noted.

    However, the Deputy Speaker said that the circumstances relating to when and where an MP enjoys immunity from such arrest is still debatable.

    He was reacting to claims by Chadema Secretary General, Dr Wilbrod Slaa, who said at a press conference on Sunday that the arrests of the party leaders had a hidden political agenda and that the action may disrupt Bunge meetings that start tomorrow.

    Dr Slaa said the arrest of Chadema MPs were purely a sign that the police were receiving orders from some political heavyweights and announced that the situation could not be tolerated any more.

    He condemned the arrests and pointed an accusing finger at security organs for applying double standards when dealing with Chadema leaders.

    He wondered why the same was not applied to Chama Cha Mapinduzi (CCM) MPs. Dr Slaa threatened that
    Chadema MPs would not attend the opening of the Budget Session tomorrow if Mr Mbowe is not released by the police by today.

    "If Mr Mbowe doesn't appear in court in Arusha and released for House sessions our MPs are not going to show up during the opening of the budget meeting on Wednesday," he stressed.

    Mr Ndugai said that the absence of Chadema MPs in the House would be a historical spectacle because since the inception of the multi-party political system in the country such an occurrence has not yet happened.

    It is required by Law that for the budget session to officially take off, the leader of the opposition camp must be in the House.

    He said that if Chadema stick to their guns by boycotting the session, the Administration Committee of Parliament will have to urgently meet today to discuss the matter. Dr Slaa threatened that Chadema followers would take further action including street demonstrations.

    The Minister for Home Affairs, Mr Shamsa Vuai Nahodha, declined to comment on Chadema's move saying that he had not received official information on the party's intention to demonstrate.

    "I'm on my way to Dodoma and am not aware of the development but if it is true, this is a sensitive issue. I need time to digest the matter before giving any public statement," he said.

    On his part, the Dar es Salaam Special Zone Police Commander, Suleiman Kova, told a news conference yesterday that police were implementing the court's order. He added that there was no room for sympathy.

    Tanzania Daily News
  2. Kigogo

    Kigogo JF-Expert Member

    Jun 6, 2011
    Joined: Dec 14, 2007
    Messages: 20,498
    Likes Received: 1,453
    Trophy Points: 280
    we ndugai nadhani kikombe hakijakusaidia na ile kitu unayoumwa ishakuharibu ubongo...
  3. Ngambo Ngali

    Ngambo Ngali JF-Expert Member

    Jun 6, 2011
    Joined: Apr 17, 2009
    Messages: 3,196
    Likes Received: 135
    Trophy Points: 160

    Not all orders from the court are lawful, show me, tell me the lawfulness of the order issued by the court. It is not necessarily that all orders issued by the court are lawful.
  4. G

    Gagnija JF-Expert Member

    Jun 6, 2011
    Joined: Apr 28, 2006
    Messages: 6,316
    Likes Received: 618
    Trophy Points: 280
    Lawful but unjust. Stupid Ndugai.
  5. G

    Gurtu JF-Expert Member

    Jun 6, 2011
    Joined: May 15, 2010
    Messages: 1,202
    Likes Received: 5
    Trophy Points: 135
    Ndugai hajaongea kitu chochote. Naibu Spika afadhali angekaa kimya kama spika kuliko kupiga porojo. Kusema kuwa "...the circumstances relating to when and where an MP enjoys immunity from such arrest is still debatable."

    Ndugai una maana gani kusema 'debatable'? Kumbe sheria ya kinga inatekelezwa kwa njia ya 'debate'. Maana ya kinga ya bunge, shughuli na maeneo ya bunge yamefafanuliwa na sheria hiyo hiyo, na kama sheria haijafafanua hizo 'circumstances relating to when and where' basi Mh. Ndugai ungekaa kimya kuliko kuonyesha upumbavu wako.
  6. F

    FJM JF-Expert Member

    Jun 6, 2011
    Joined: Apr 11, 2011
    Messages: 8,088
    Likes Received: 90
    Trophy Points: 145

    I would to think that Ndungai is talking about the 'separation of powers' and if believes in that notion then why did he allow one organ to oversee another? This is in relation to the recently passed law which requires Regional Commissioners & District Commissiners to oversee the disciplinary of the judiciary? The height of hypocrisy shown by Ndungi & co is beyond belief!
  7. T

    Twasila JF-Expert Member

    Jun 6, 2011
    Joined: May 12, 2011
    Messages: 1,913
    Likes Received: 494
    Trophy Points: 180
    Deputy Speaker should tell us procedures followed before arresting an MP. Blah blah what for?
    I expected him to be objective!
    He also should tell the public whether ccm mps have been treated differently.
  8. Chapakazi

    Chapakazi JF-Expert Member

    Jun 6, 2011
    Joined: Apr 19, 2009
    Messages: 2,881
    Likes Received: 8
    Trophy Points: 135
    "Inheriting Institutions w/out understanding their works! NO ONE IS ABOVE THE LAW, yet some are privileged!!"

    Tatizo kubwa nililoona kwenye hii kasumba ya Mbowe, Mahakama na Polisi ni jinsi watu wengi wanashindwa kuelewa undani wa hizi Institutions. Tatizo ni tumerithi vitu bila kujua undani wake. Somo la Uraia tulibaki tukiimba nyimbo za ccm na kuenzi fikra za mwenyekiti badala ya kujua undani na utendaji wa hizi institutions.
    Nasikitika sana kuona watu wanadhani kuwa Mbowe anasema au anaashiria yupo juu ya Sheria. Katika vyote vilivyozungumzwa na wahusika kama Lissu, sijaona mahali wametamka hilo. Parliamentary Privileges ni sheria. Na warranty ya kutotii mahakama ni sheria. Sasa hapo kunatokea mwingiliano wa sheria mbili. Ni ipi inayotangulia? Kama Lissu alivyosema, haki za mbunge zipo kwanzia kwenye Katiba. Na ni wazi kuwa Katiba ndio sheria mama. Hivyo basi ni sawa kusema kuwa Parliamentary Privileges prevail against a court warranty. Lakini kumbuka pia Spika anauwezo wa kuruhusu mbunge kukamatwa. Na katika hii saga nzima hatujasikia lolote lile kutoka kwa Spika. Sasa sijui ni uhuni wake au ni kutojua mamlaka yake.
    In regards to the police, nadhani wao hawajatenda kosa ijapokuwa wameonyesha upendeleo. Kosa lingefanyika pale ambapo wangeenda katika eneo la bunge na kumshika Mbowe bila kibali cha Spika. Kwa vile Mbowe ameenda kujisalimisha, hii inaweza kuwa-absolve from any wrong doing. Lakini kuna issue ya ku-interpret maana ya 'kuwa katika eneo la bunge' na zile 'siku arobaini' kabla na baada ya shughuli za bunge. Na hata kama anajisalimisha, lakini yupo katikati ya shughuli za bunge, je polisi bado wanatakiwa kupata kibali cha Spika au la?! Jibu ya hili swali bado sijapata.
    I am just trying to shade a light kwenye hii ishu nzima kwa mueleo wangu. Nipo tayari kusahihishwa popote pale nilipokosea.
  9. Ngambo Ngali

    Ngambo Ngali JF-Expert Member

    Jun 6, 2011
    Joined: Apr 17, 2009
    Messages: 3,196
    Likes Received: 135
    Trophy Points: 160
    Well said, wenzetu wanaita verbal diarrhea sijui sisi kwa kiswahili tuiiteje.
  10. rosemarie

    rosemarie JF-Expert Member

    Jun 6, 2011
    Joined: Mar 22, 2011
    Messages: 6,768
    Likes Received: 1,023
    Trophy Points: 280
    du du du,bwana mzee tupe cv ya huyu *****
  11. Lole Gwakisa

    Lole Gwakisa JF-Expert Member

    Jun 6, 2011
    Joined: Nov 5, 2008
    Messages: 3,962
    Likes Received: 403
    Trophy Points: 180
    Nakubaliana na wewe mkuu ingawaje with reservations.
    Simplicity is the hallmark of a genius.
    Hili swala limeenda kihuni na kwa bahati mbaya kwa kujua au kutojua kwa Mwenyekiti wa CDM.
    Ukiwa na nagging issues kama za kesi alizonazo ndogo ndogo SOLVE THEM FIRST, ili ku-concentrate on bigger and important issues.
    Mimi nimeuliza sipati jibu, angekuwa murder case je, parliamentary privileges angezipata wapi?
  12. pascaldaudi

    pascaldaudi JF-Expert Member

    Jun 6, 2011
    Joined: Mar 25, 2009
    Messages: 534
    Likes Received: 3
    Trophy Points: 0
    Inamaana ana.............n............g.........o...........m...........*!
  13. Albedo

    Albedo JF-Expert Member

    Jun 6, 2011
    Joined: Feb 24, 2008
    Messages: 5,566
    Likes Received: 19
    Trophy Points: 135
    1: Lakini Mbona Polisi hao hao waliomba Ruhusa Kwa Bunge hili hili ili Mbunge wa Bunge Hili hili ila kwa Tiketi ya CCM akamatwe?

    2: Mbona Mahakama Hii hii ilitoa Kibali acha Kukamatwa Kwa Chenge baada ya Kutofika Mahakamani na Hatukuona Polisi Wakikimbia kumkamata Andrew ( Ohoo Nimesahau kumbe Andrew Hakamatiki)

    3: Lakini Jeshi hili hili la Polisi ambalo linaongozwa na Kamanda huyu huyu ( Mwema) OCD wake alipigwa Gwara ( Mtama) na Mgombea Ubunge wa CCM lakini mpaka leo Jamaa anadunda

    Hakuna Mtu anayekataa kwamba ni Lazima Mahakama Iheshimiwe ila Mahakama hiyo hiyo inapokuwa na Double Standard Inapoteza HAKI ya KUHESHIMIWA
  14. Mr.Professional

    Mr.Professional JF-Expert Member

    Jun 6, 2011
    Joined: Oct 4, 2010
    Messages: 1,602
    Likes Received: 7
    Trophy Points: 135
    Tanzania yetu inamatatizo ya kuchanganya serikali na chama na hatima yake ni kuwa wale walioko katika chama ambacho kimebeba serikali basi wanakuwa ni kama wafalme au malkia, kisha sisi wengine regardless ya status yako bado ni mbwa koko mbele ya katiba ambayo haina uhalali hata katika macho na masikio ya watz.

    Tatizo jingine ni wote Spika na Naibu spika sio wanasheria hivyo uwezo wao wa kufasiri sheria ni mdogo kuliko wa mwanafunzi wa mwaka wa kwanza chuo kikuu anayechukua fani ya sheria. Ndungai kazungumza vitu ambavyo kimtizamo hajui anazungumza nini na katika boundary ipi haswa.Ni bora angeendelea kukuaa kimya kuliko kujishushia heshima kma alivyofanya.
  15. Zak Malang

    Zak Malang JF-Expert Member

    Jun 6, 2011
    Joined: Dec 30, 2008
    Messages: 5,410
    Likes Received: 18
    Trophy Points: 0

    Kwa kuongezea tu hiyo orodha Mrema na Mtikila kwa nyakati tofauti hawakuhudhuria kesi zao za jinai zilizokuwa zikiwakabili lakini hatukuona spidi hii ya zima moto kama ya Mbowe kutoka kwa akina Kova kuwakamata. Ndugai azungumzie double standard hii kama ataweza au sivyo he should sharrrap!
    Nilifikiri he is better kuliko yule lady! Both are worse.
  16. Chapakazi

    Chapakazi JF-Expert Member

    Jun 6, 2011
    Joined: Apr 19, 2009
    Messages: 2,881
    Likes Received: 8
    Trophy Points: 135
    Nilikujibu...akiwa katika shughuli za bunge lazima polisi waombe kibali cha spika kabla hawajamkamata. Samething happened to Vijisenti alipoua. Kuna mtu aliongelea hili, nadhani Mnyika. Mbunge akiwa katika shughuli za bunge...privilege applies. Ni sheria hiyo. Lakini kwa utamaduni, ikiwa murder, lazima Spika aachie Polisi au Mahakama ifanye kazi. Ndio maana nasema hapa ni Institutions 3 zimekutana. Iliyo na nguvu ni Parliament maana tunafuata parliamentary supremecy ideology!
  17. GeniusBrain

    GeniusBrain JF-Expert Member

    Jun 6, 2011
    Joined: Nov 3, 2010
    Messages: 4,321
    Likes Received: 18
    Trophy Points: 135
    Bora Bunge limesema kuwa ni halali, sasa watu mlikuwa wataka kauli ya bunge, hiyo hapo juu someni !
  18. J

    Jasusi JF-Expert Member

    Jun 6, 2011
    Joined: May 5, 2006
    Messages: 11,484
    Likes Received: 165
    Trophy Points: 160
    Jamani, naulizeni swali la kizushi: Hivi Ndungai ana utaalamu gani wa kisheria?
  19. Mwita25

    Mwita25 JF-Expert Member

    Jun 6, 2011
    Joined: Apr 15, 2011
    Messages: 3,840
    Likes Received: 18
    Trophy Points: 0
    Aliongea kiswahili ikatafsiriwa kiingereza, huyu mzee namjua hajui kiingereza tangu anatufundisha S/M MBANDE, Kongwa back in 87
  20. The Emils

    The Emils JF-Expert Member

    Jun 6, 2011
    Joined: Apr 16, 2011
    Messages: 570
    Likes Received: 1
    Trophy Points: 0
    ndugai gamba lingine hilooo! Hawezi kutetea chadema hata siku moja..kwahyo hyo jamaa ameongea sahihi kulingana na kanuni za kimagamba