Majambazi Arusha: Mabomu, Bunduki, Risasi, Bastola - Hii ni Kashfa JWTZ

[Rufiji]

Mimi sipingani na suala la demokrasia , ila inapokuja suala la kuishi na demokrasia mimi nitachagua kuishi.

 

[Mtoto wa Mkulima]

Rufiji, demokrasia ina gharama na gharama mojawapo ni kuheshimu utawala wa sheria. Kwa maneno yako unataka tuhalalishe raia kuchukua sheria mikononi. Naomba nirudie tena, sibishanii kama walikuwa majambazi au la....nahoji jinsi walivyouawa...

Mwanakijiji! ulitaka wauwaweje? au ulitaa polisi akishauwawa ndio wao wauwawe? Naelewa kuwa unamaanisha hawakuuwawa katika mapambano kutokana na mazingira ya mauaji, hapo sipingani kabisa lakini ni wahalifu na polisi walijifunza kutokana na tukio la Arusha hadi msaada wa jeshi ukatolewa. Polisi Kenya wamethibitisha kuwa baadhi ya Jamaa ni hatari, Je polisi wasubiri hadi maisha ya polisi na zaia wema yapotee ndio wapambane nao? Kama kweli ni majambazi mimi si halalishi mauaji ila nasema KINGA NI BORA KULIKO TIBA. tusitatue migogoro bali tuizuie isitokee?

There is no way Kenyan authorities can defend criminals. In fact, some of those killed last week in Moshi were on the most-wanted list of criminals back home in Kenya,? he noted.
An emphatic High Commissioner Mbaya added: ?The allegations are not true. We cannot do that. I am a Kenyan ambassador talking to you now; please, don?t rely on unofficial reports

 

[Insurgent]

Nafikiri tukubali,
MOJA - wale jamaa walikuwa trapped.
MBILI - Polisi waliwapiga risasi.

Sasa vitu viwili vya kujiuliza,
MOJA - haikuwezekana kuwakamata hai?
MBILI - wale jamaa waliofanikiwa kutoroka, mbona mpaka leo hawajaripoti vituoni kuhusu wenzao kuuawa(kama kweli ni raia wema). Naamini hawa ndio key on what really happened AU hakuna aliyetoroka?(yaani imetungwa). Naamini wako waliotoroka kwani mtu 14 haziwezi kufit kwenye VITARA.

 

[Mwendapole Old]

Kazi ipo.

Kwa hiyo hata hizo silaha zilipangwa pia?...........i mean im lost

Kumbuka kisa cha aliyekuwa RPC wa Bukoba..alijitahidi kujipatia umaarufu kwa kutangaza kila kukicha kuwa polisi mkoani kwake 'wamekurupusha majambazi' wa Burundi/ Tz/Rwanda..na kila mara alionyesha rundo la silaha kwenye TV alizodai zilikamatwa katika purukushani hiyo..hadi polisi wadogo walipotoa siri kuwa silaha hizo zilikuwa zinatolewa polisi...kuwekwa porini...na 'ambush' kupangwa..Uliwahi kusikia 'ambush' ya polisi ikishuhudiwa live na waandishi wa habari/TVs?

Hii ni bongo mzee, anything is possible..Ila kwa hili la juzi..kweli silaha zilikamatwa...

Swali: silaha zilikuwa wapi?
Jibu: obviosly hazikuwa mikononi mwa majambazi wakati wanauawa...ndio maana walipigwa kama kuku

Swali: walikuwa wapi wakati wanakamatwa na kuuawa muda huo wa saa 1.30?
Jibu: walikuwa wanaenda kula, ndio maana hawakuwa na silaha, afterall walikuwa na mwenyeji wao

swali: Hao majambazi waliingiaje/waliruhusiwaje kuingia mpakani
Jibu: waliiingia kama watu wengine waliwa na pasi halali za kusafiria..hata wangesachiwa hizo silaha za kivita wasingekutwa nazo maana zilishatangulia kabla yao kwa namna ambayo polisi wanajua.
Kwa aliyewahi kupita Namanga, atajua kuwa hata ukiwa umevaa mabomu unaweza kupita bila wasiwasi..nobody cares..utapigiwa mhuri pasi yako bila hata kuangaliwa usoni na jamaa anaendela aidha kulala au kupiga soga

Swali: walikuwa majambazi
Jibu: Ndiyo

swali: Walipanga kuiba wapi
Jibu: walikuwa na mission kubwa mbili; moja kuvamia magereza na kuwatoa wenzao ; mbili; wakati kubdi jingine likiwatoa, jingine linaiba bank..ndege wawili kwa jiwe moja..off they go with their full battallion

swali: kwanini polisi hawakuwakamata wakiwa hai
Jibu; waliambiwa hao jamaa ni hatari, ni kikosi cha makomandoo; hivyo kwa hofu/mashaka/kutojiamini wakaamua kuchukua the easy way out

swali: ilikuwa halali kufanya hivyo?
jibu: hapana; ndio maana hata polisi hawathubutu kueleza ukweli

swali: next time polisi wakipata taarifa ya kuwepo majambazi wafanye nini?
jibu: wafuate maadili yao ya kazi..hawakufundishwa kuua kwa style hiyo

swali: kwanini watu wananlalamikia mauaji hayo?
jibu: 1.kwasababu ni kinyume na haki za binadamu; kanuni na taratibu za jeshi la polisi; unyama..na tena; polisi hawakusema ukweli katika taarifa yao
2. Tukiacha mauaji kama hayo yaendelee tutashuhudia watu wenye mgogoro binafsi na polisi wakiuawa kwa madai ya 'mapambano' au katika maandalizi ya kufanya ujambazi
Mfano; Zombe's case; kesi ya mauaji waliyofunguliwa askari Arusha kwa mauaji ya namna hii..hii nayo ingekufa kama sio wazazi wao kuwa na sauti ndani ya CCM..wewe na mimi tutakuwa hatuna wasemaji wa kutetea haki zetu..bora tukomeshe hiyo tabia, kama mtu anashukiwa kujiandaa kufanya ujambazi sheria iko wazi, akamatwe apelekwe mahakamani...kama polisi wanaogopa kuzidiwa nguvu basi wajipange upya au wawape jeshi la wananchi hiyo kazi, au wsashirikiane nao, afterall kuna makomandoo wa plisi na jeshi..wawatumie kukamata watu kwa kutumia ngumi na karate kama wanaopgopa kuzidiwa nguvu..na kama hofu yao ni kuwa watakosa ushahidi mahakamani..then they have no case, na kisheria mtu ambaye hajatenda kosa, unamshuku kuwa anakusudia kujiandaa, huyo ni mtu safi, hata hakuna kipengele cha kosa la namna hiyo kwenye Penal code..kuna kosa la "Attempt ..." Hawa hata ku-attempt walikuwa bado ...kwa kosa lipi wameuawa?

haina maana nashabikia kushamiri ujambazi..nawachukia vibaya.. lakini mtu ni jamabzi pale anapofanya ujambazi..otherwise washukiwa ni wengi, kwa hiyo ni vema tukawa na utaratibu mzuri wa kuwashughulikia..Ingekuwa ni watz wameuawa naamini mtizamo wa wengi hapa ungekuwa tofauti kwa kuhofia asije kuwa ndugu/jamaa au rafiki unayemjua ..tukumbuke jeshi la polisi nalo linatumikiwa na wanadamu, sio malaika, tukiacha wachukuie sheria mkononi tujue there is no limit to what they can do., to the extent to which they can go...Kama RPC mzima anaweza kukusanya silaha porini na kujifanya kazikamata ili apate umaarufu na cheo unafukiri ni kitu gani hatafanya?

 

[Mtoto wa Mkulima]

MBILI - wale jamaa waliofanikiwa kutoroka, mbona mpaka leo hawajaripoti vituoni kuhusu wenzao kuuawa(kama kweli ni raia wema). Naamini hawa ndio key on what really happened AU hakuna aliyetoroka?(yaani imetungwa). Naamini wako waliotoroka kwani mtu 14 haziwezi kufit kwenye VITARA.

Ndio hapo sasa maana hawa jamaa majina ya watatu yalipatikana na hadi sehemu walizokuwa wanaishi huko Kenya. Hawa wanaweza kutoa picha halisi ya movie nzima ilivyokuwa lakini kwasababu sio raia wema hawawezi kujitokeza. Kama hawanaimani na jeshi la polisi la TZ na Kenya basi waende kwenye taasisi nyingine za haki za binaadamu.

 

[Rufiji]

Mimi sielewi watu mnatetea nini haswa ? Jamani ni muhimu kuheshimu utawala wa sheria lakini ni lazima tutambue hapa tunazungumzia Tanzania . Jee kama polisi wangewakamata wale watu na kuwapeleka kortini , mnadhani wangeweza kushinda hiyo kesi . Let us make hypothetical assumption kwamba hawa watu walikamatwa njiani na hawakuwa na silaha kipindi hiko kwani waliziacha nyumbani, Jee prosecutor angeweza kuprove vipi mahakamani kwamba zile silaha ni za wale jamaa ?

Kwenye makosa yoyote ya jinai Prosecutor ana burden of proof , trust me hawa watu wangeachiwa na wangerudi kufanya kazi yao walioizoea . Ni rahisi sana kwa watu walioko nje ya nchi kuzungumzia haki za binaadamu kwa sababu hawajui ni mateso kiasi gani watu wanaoishi katika mikoa ya mipakani are going through ! Hivi mlitaka polisi wawili wafe ndio muone haki imetendeka ? Kwa nini manakuwa wepesi kuona haki za hawa majambazi lakini hamuoni haki za wananchi na polisi pia ?

Ni vizuri kukopi mifano ya nchi za magharibi lakini pia ni lazima pia kuangalia ni mazingira gani polisi wetu wanayofanyia kazi ! Trust me , polisi wetu hawana silaha za kisasa kama walizokuwa nazo hao majambazi na ndio maana ilibidi jeshi liingilie kule Arusha . Na kama wangesubiri wawakamate nyumbani then matatizo yangekuwa makubwa ....sina uhakika kama ni kweli waliuwa kwa execution style kama watu wengine hapa walivyo- conclude.

Kwa kumalizia naomba nimalizie kwa hii quote toka kwa Michael Savage ambaye ni mtangazaji maarufu wa radio :

These leftists would put their socialist principles above survival. Let me remind them, that the ultimate principle is survival.

 

[Koba]

Rights group condemns Kenyans` killing in Tanzania

2007-09-12 09:17:37
By NAIROBI


A Kenyan rights group said yesterday it would go to a regional court to seek redress over 11 Kenyans killed by Tanzanian police as suspected robbers.

The Oscar Foundation said the bodies of some Kenyans who were shot dead in Moshi last week bore marks of torture.

Police on Wednesday shot dead 14 people suspected to be armed robbers after they defied an order to stop at a roadblock on their way to rob a bank near Moshi.

But Oscar Foundation executive director King`ara Kamau said: `We wish to categorically state that the killings were occasioned by misinformation and lacked any intelligent information to justify the killings.`

He added that the group would take the case to the East Africa Court of Justice in Arusha `to ensure the alleged perpetrators of the killings are brought to justice.`

Extrajudicial police killings are common in many African countries, including Kenya, rights groups say.

The deaths of the Kenyans produced very different reactions
in both nations.

Many Tanzanians lauded the shootings as a necessary deterrent to Kenyan criminals crossing their border.

But in Kenya, many have called for more investigations.
`Those found to have acted against the law, used excessive force or executed Kenyans must face the full force of the law,` Kenyan daily The Standard said in an editorial.

Tanzania has far less violent crime than Kenya, whose capital Nairobi has been dubbed `Nairobbery` by foreigners.

Both nations fear crime may deter tourism in a region famous for its game parks, beaches and mountain ranges.

Tanzanian police said they recovered grenades, assault rifles and bullet-proof vests from the suspected robbers.
But Kamau said post mortem results were suspicious.

`Preliminary autopsy results of the victims of this heinous crime shows that they were shot at close range and with a high velocity rifle,` his statement said.

`We are also convinced beyond reasonable doubt that the victims were subjected to torture before being shot.`

Kenya`s ambassador to Tanzania, Boaz Mbaya, backed the police action. `There is no way Kenyan authorities can defend criminals.

In fact, some of those killed last week were on the most wanted list of criminals back home in Kenya,� he was quoted as saying by the press.

Meanwhile Our Correspondent Kasembeli Albert from Nairobi reports that Oscar Foundation yesterday claimed that some of its officials who had travel to Moshi to carry out autopsy examination on the bodies of the 14 suspects killed last week in an abortive bank robbery were temporarily locked by police in Moshi, on Monday.

The delegation`s leader, King�ara Kamau said human rights activists had petitioned the police authorities for permission to carry out post mortem on the bodies of the suspects

Kamau said the three officials had arrived at the Kilimanjaro Regional Police headquarters and sought audience with the commander, Lucas Ngohboko, when they were led to a room and locked up.

He said that a police officer demanded that they hand over their mobile phones and other particulars. `They wanted to take our finger prints and pictures, but we refused,` he said on the phone.

He said the officers calmed after they sought help at the Kenyan embassy.

It took the intervention of an embassy official only identified as Mr Resunda who arrived to have the activists released after hours in custody at the Kilimanjaro Provincial Police headquarters.

The activists had travelled to Moshi from Nairobi to carry out independent investigation into the Wednesday killings.

At the same time Oscar Foundation claimed that the family of Anne Kangara, one of the victims, was denied access to view her body at the local mortuary.

Police asked the family to get clearance from Kenyan Police or embassy.

However, when contacted for comment, the Director for Criminal Investigation, Robert Manumba, said he was not informed of the incident.

`The doors were open to anybody to see the scene of incident, thus if anybody was mistreated she or he is free to come forward and complain to police authorities,` he said.

SOURCE: Guardian

 

[Mzee Mwanakijiji]

MBILI - wale jamaa waliofanikiwa kutoroka, mbona mpaka leo hawajaripoti vituoni kuhusu wenzao kuuawa(kama kweli ni raia wema). Naamini hawa ndio key on what really happened AU hakuna aliyetoroka?(yaani imetungwa). Naamini wako waliotoroka kwani mtu 14 haziwezi kufit kwenye VITARA.

Insurgent.. unassume kuwa kulikuwepo na watu waliokimbia eneo la tukio...? What if they were not there at all and the Police missed them?

 

[Mzee Mwanakijiji]

Moshi police rough up Kenyans, reject plea
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


By Cyrus Ombati

Tanzanian police confiscated two cameras from relatives of one of the 14 Kenyans shot dead in Moshi.

They also rejected an independent post-mortem on the bodies by Kenyan doctors.

And in Nairobi, police on Tuesday sided with the Tanzanian authorities, saying six of the suspects had criminal records.

Police spokesman, Mr Eric Kiraithe, said they had not established the circumstances under which the other eight people died, but they believed they were accomplices

In Moshi, relatives of Anne Kang’ara and officials of Oscar Foundation had taken pictures of a Suzuki Vitara alleged to have been carrying the victims when they were shot dead, when police confiscated two cameras.

The officers also arrested a guide hired by the family to take them to the scene of the shooting.

Oscar official, Mr King’ara Kamau, said Kilimanjaro police had denied them permission to hire a private pathologist to carry out a post-mortem.

The officers insisted that only their government’s pathologist and two people would be allowed into the operation room.

"There is a standoff here because the post-mortem has not even started and they took away our cameras. We have not even viewed the bodies," Kamau told The Standard by telephone.

Anne’s family was on Monday detained for hours as they sought permission to probe the incident.

In Nairobi, Kenyan police said they had established that Moses Kuria Kamau had been convicted of robbery with violence in 1997 and sentenced to death, but could not tell how he was released.

Another victim, David Njuguna Mbugua, was jailed for stealing by a Nakuru court in 1981, while Zachary Mwangi Kimathiro was charged with robbery in 2004.

Kiraithe said John Gikonyo Buku was in 1996 accused of preparing to commit an offence, and Philip Irungu Wanjiru was also charged with robbery in Nairobi.

Peter Maina Waweru was charged with robbery in a Thika court in 2004.

"We believe most of them had appealed their cases before they were released from jail," said Kiraithe.

Others killed are Jeremiah Wachira Macharia, Wilson Irungu Kiige, David Njuguna Mbugua, Rudovic Gicheru Kariuki, Ephrahim Maina Mwangi and Genson Karuhi

 

[Koba]

...haiiingii akilini kuua watu 14 huku wakiwa na silaha na hakuna hata polisi mmoja aliyeumia,naamini hao jamaa walikuwa exucuted kama raia wengine tuu wanaokufa mikononi mwa polisi kwa vipigo na inaonekana hawakuwa na silaha yeyote....polisi wengi ndio majambazi na michoro yote ya wizi wa mabank mara nyingi ni wao....wanahitaji kubadilisha mambo mengi sana la sivyo sitashangaa hii ikitokea tena

 

[Mzee Mwanakijiji]

Koba watu wameridhika kwa vile waliouawa ni Wakenya. Period.

 

[Chakaza]

Kumbuka kisa cha aliyekuwa RPC wa Bukoba..alijitahidi kujipatia umaarufu kwa kutangaza kila kukicha kuwa polisi mkoani kwake 'wamekurupusha majambazi' wa Burundi/ Tz/Rwanda..na kila mara alionyesha rundo la silaha kwenye TV alizodai zilikamatwa katika purukushani hiyo..hadi polisi wadogo walipotoa siri kuwa silaha hizo zilikuwa zinatolewa polisi...kuwekwa porini...na 'ambush' kupangwa..Uliwahi kusikia 'ambush' ya polisi ikishuhudiwa live na waandishi wa habari/TVs?
He! kumbe ule umaarufu wa Kamanda ulikuwa wa kuchonga?

 

[Koba]

Mimi sielewi watu mnatetea nini haswa ? Jamani ni muhimu kuheshimu utawala wa sheria lakini ni lazima tutambue hapa tunazungumzia Tanzania . Jee kama polisi wangewakamata wale watu na kuwapeleka kortini , mnadhani wangeweza kushinda hiyo kesi . Let us make hypothetical assumption kwamba hawa watu walikamatwa njiani na hawakuwa na silaha kipindi hiko kwani waliziacha nyumbani, Jee prosecutor angeweza kuprove vipi mahakamani kwamba zile silaha ni za wale jamaa ?

...I find it so intimidating!

 

[Rufiji]

Intimidating ni hao majambazi kuuwawa au wangeachiwa wawadhuru wananchi ?

 

[Rufiji]

...haiiingii akilini kuua watu 14 huku wakiwa na silaha na hakuna hata polisi mmoja aliyeumia

Ulitaka polisi wafe ndio huamini yale yalikuwa majambazi ....this is preposterious !

 

[Koba]

Ulitaka polisi wafe ndio huamini yale yalikuwa majambazi ....this is preposterious !

...acha upumbavu wako humu na inaonekana hakuna kitu unajua zaidi ya ushabiki tuu.

 

[Rufiji]

Ukishamuona mtu anaanza "name calling " kama kumuita mwenzake ******** then jua wazi ya kuwa ameishiwa . Koba usije ukafikiri ya kuwa hakuna mtu ambaye hajui kutukana , kwa hiyo angalia kitu unachoandika .

 

[Mzee Mwanakijiji]

Ulitaka polisi wafe ndio huamini yale yalikuwa majambazi ....this is preposterious !

Rufiji, hatuwezi kuendesha nchi kwa mawazo ya "pre-emptive strike" kwenye kazi za Polisi. Vinginevyo maana ya "haki" na "utawala wa sheria" vitatoweka kabisa. Hivi Polisi wakimkuta mtu anabunduki wamshambulie tu kwa vile wanaamini kuwa anahatarisha amani? Kama mtu hakuwa tishio la moja kwa moja kwa Polisi kwanini wawaue tu kwa assumption kwamba kesho yake watu hao watafanya mabaya? Kumbuka hakuna mahali ambapo Polisi wamesema kuwa silaha zilikutwa mikononi mwa washukiwa.

 

[Rufiji]

Mwanakijiji ,

Naona wewe sasa tunaweza kuwa na dialogue tofauti na Koba ambaye anatukana watu .Ok Mwanakijiji , ngoja mimi ni act kama devil advocate hapa ni ushahidi gani ulionao ya kuwa wale polisi walifanya pre- emptive strike? Mimi tangu mwanzoni nilisema maoni yangu yalikuwa yamebase kwenye hypothetical assumptions. Pili hili suala la kutaka kuwafanya hawa watu kama wananchi wa kawaida sijui mmelitoa wapi , kwa mujibu wa polisi hawa watu walikuwa na AK 47 sio bunduki kama Mwanakijiji ulivyosema , hizi ni silaha za kivita na ni kinyume cha sheria kwa raia yeyote kuwa nayo !

Jamani mmoja kati ya jambazi lililouwawa alikuwa kwenye death row huko kenya na polisi hawajui ametoroka vipi , sasa jamani kama mtu ametoroka death row unategemea kweli kama he has anything to loose? Hebu soma hiki kipande hapa chini to standard online :


In Nairobi, Kenyan police said they had established that Moses Kuria Kamau had been convicted of robbery with violence in 1997 and sentenced to death, but could not tell how he was released.

 

[Mzee Mwanakijiji]

Mwanakijiji ,

Naona wewe sasa tunaweza kuwa na dialogue tofauti na Koba ambaye anatukana watu .Ok Mwanakijiji , ngoja mimi ni act kama devil advocate hapa ni ushahidi gani ulionao ya kuwa wale polisi walifanya pre- emptive strike? Mimi tangu mwanzoni nilisema maoni yangu yalikuwa yamebase kwenye hypothetical assumptions.

Rufiji ningekuwa na ushahidi nisingetaka uchunguzi ufanyike. Hata hivyo nina maswali ambayo ndiyo nimeyaanisha hapo juu.

a. Inapotokea kuwa kuna watu wameuawa mikononi mwa Polisi na maelezo pekee ya kuelezea mauaji hayo yanatolewa na waliohusika na mauaji hayo peke yao, sina budi kuhoji. Endapo sauti nyingine (siyo ya Polisi wa Kenya) ikitolewa kuunga mkono maelezo ya Polisi basi wanayapa maelezo ya Polisi nguvu zaidi. Sasa hivi, ni Polisi tu wenye kuelezea tukio hilo. Kuna ubaya gani kupata sauti huru kuhalalisha jambo hilo?

b. Matundu makubwa kwenye maelezo ya Polisi.
- idadi ya waliouawa
- Silaha walizodaiwa kuwa nazo (zilitumika au la)
- Usafiri uliotumiwa
- Wapi waliuawa na wali wapi walikutwa wote 14 kwa wakati mmoja (kuna tetesi kuwa kuna baadhi (walinyakwa kwenye baa moja...na kuunganishwa na wenzao)
- Walikuja kuiba Benki ya Exim (maelezo ya mwanzo ya Kamanda Lukas) au walikuja kuwatoa wenzao jela kwa nguvu (maelezo ya awali uraiani na Polisi Kenya). Ina maana walikuwa wamepanga kutekeleza mission hizo mbili siku hiyo wakiwa na silaha hizo tu kwa muda gani? wakati gereza na benki haviko mtaa mmoja? Sijui kama unafahamu liliko Gereza la Karanga....
- Wakati wanauawa, 5 kati yao haikuwezekana kabisa kuwa na silaha mkononi. How do you kill 5 unarmed people?

c. Ibara ya 130, Kifungu cha 4 cha Katiba yetu imeunda tume ya Haki za Binadamu na Utawala Bora inasema hivi kuhusu mojawapo ya majukumu ya tume hiyo:

(4) Tume itafanya uchunguzi kwa kufuata masharti ya ibara
hii na masharti ya sheria iliyotungwa na Bunge kwa ajili hiyo, na
itafanya uchunguzi juu ya mtu yeyote anayehusika au taasisi
yoyote inayohusika kila itakapoagizwa na Rais kufanya
uchunguzi; vilevile, isipokuwa kama Rais ameagiza Tume
isifanye uchunguzi, Tume yaweza kufanya uchunguzi wakati
wowote inapoona infaa kuchunguza mwenendo wa mtu yeyote
anayehusika, au taasisi yoyote inayohusika, na masharti ya ibara
hii anayetuhumiwa au inayotuhumiwa kwa kukiuka madaraka ya
kazi yake, kutumia vibaya madaraka ya kazi yake au majukumu
ya taasisi hiyo au kwa uvunjaji wa haki za binadamu au misingi
ya utawala bora.

Sasa Rufiji,

kwa kuzingatia hayo mambo matatu kuna ubaya gani kwa Tume ambayo tayari iko na ina bajeti yake kuingilia kati na kujaribu kuangalia nini kilitokea?