In DEFENCE of LOWASSA (Warioba & Butiku on it)

[Ukweliii]

Huyu Mh. Warioba naona anachemka na kutoa matamko ya kisiasa akiegemea upande wa kitaalamu. Ripoti na mawasilisho yake yalikuwa wazi kuwa Mh. Lowasa afanye anachodhani ni sahihi, sijaona kama liambiwa ajiuzulu. Aliona mwenyewe kuwa kujiuzulu ndio sahihi. Maana pia alikuwa na choice ya kutokujiuzulu na akamuacha Rais amfukuze kazi kama yeye anaamini kuwa yusafi na hahusiki na skandali ya Richmond.

Hata hivyo kama Mh Lowasa kashinikizwa kujiuzulu haki yake ya kikatiba "free speech" ipo atoe utetezi wake

Pia Mh. Lowasa kama championi wa collective responsibility mawaziri wawili, Taasisi muhimu (TAKUKURU) na Mwanasheria Mkuu wanapohusishwa na tuhuma kubwa/nzito namna hii wajibu wake ni nini??

Hawa ni walinzi wa kile tunacho kipiga vita TZ, KULINDANA, Mwenzetu
Haya hayaleti maendeleo wala uwajibikaji wa mtu binafsi

Challenge is to Maintain the momentum alas we go back to the old ways..

 

[Phillemon Mikael]

Phil tunaomba source kwa sababu unachosema haki make sense, kwamba walishauri ripoti iwekwe bungeni bila kupendekeza chochote is hogwash because technically Mwakyembe hakusema Lowassa ajiuzulu (not in so many words anyway) ila alishauri Waziri Mkuu atumie busara zake, ambayo inaacha wazi option ya rebuttal.

Watu wote walio objective, Warioba included according to the above post, na wanaojua misingi ya sheria wanajua kwamba haki inapoonekana kuwa haikutendeka haki haikutendeka, kwamba siyo tu muhimu kwa haki kutendeka, inabidi haki itendeke na pia haki ionekane kutendeka.Tatizo ni kuwa nikisema hilo hapa naonekana Lowassa apologist which is a very narrow minded outlook.

Watu hawawezi ku reconcile facts kwamba one might be appalled by Lowassa's clear corruption and also be dissapointed that the Mwakyembe Committee did not question Lowassa.

There is this euphoria now that everybody should be happy now that Lowassa is out, and nobody should question the tenets of the procedures.I beg to differ on principle.That Lowassa had to go is as they say a "no brainer" but it would have been nicer to see Lowassa denied any reason to say he was not given a chance to clarify things.I understand the logistics may have been challenging for Mwakyembe but we have to set high standards and care about precedents.

source NI KIPINDI CHA TIDO LIVE TVT JIONI HII....NAONA LENGO KUBWA LA WARIOBA NI KUWA HATAKI KOSA KAMA HILO LIRUDIWE TENA ..KWA KUWA KOSA LIMEFANYIKA NA WAZIRI MKUU PAMOJA NA UKOSAJI ALISTAHILI KUPEWA FAIR HEARING!!

HATA HIVYO HILI LA MAWAZIRI KUJIUZULU LIMETUPA HESHIMA TANZANIA..IN OTHER countries conflict like this would have resulted ito civil war between president supporters and prime ministers...

idumu amani tanzania!!

 

[Moelex23]

Mheshimiwa Lowassa akiwa kiongozi mkuu wa serikali alikuwa na opportunity nyingi kwenda mbele ya kamati na kujieleza maana mamlaka na maamuzi ya mwisho ya Richmond ni ofisi yake. Hii habari ya kuonewa na sijui hakupewa nafasi ni nonsense, na kwanini alimuandikia Spika kuhusu involvement yake in January wakati alijua kamati ilimaliza muda wake December mwakajana. He had all the opportunity kujieleza bungeni. Lowassa ilibidi awajibishwe kwa kusema kamati imetumia udaku na maneno ya mtaani...hapo alidanganya bunge maana Kamati haikutumia hata kielelezo kimoja kutoka kwenye gazeti.
It is ridiculous kusema he wasnt given the opportunity when the comittee had an open door policy. There was no need for him to be interviewed as there was already a paper trail pointing to his involvement, all he had to do as prime minister (who knew there was a trail leading to him) was to speak out in Parliament and explain how he wasnt involved. Period.

amen....

labda tumuulize pundit, dowans ni kampuni iko wapi///
dowans owners ni nani////
check wanazopewa zinawekwa acct gani///
google dowans uone utapata info gani//
kampuni imeundwa pale pale dar, ikasemekana inatoka uae.
ngoja nikupe msaada kidogo, angalia waarabu wa kempinski, halafu angalia nani kapewa hotel 77 arusha kwa mabavu, halafu angalia dowans, then angalia caspian, halafu rudi vodacom uone owners ni kina nani halafu jumlisha balali alikuwa anahang na watu gani huku wanasip wine za 1960s.

usione watu wajinga, mwambie lowassa aende mahakamani then kudai haki ushahidi uletwe.

 

[Pundit]

Huyu Mh. Warioba naona anachemka na kutoa matamko ya kisiasa akiegemea upande wa kitaalamu. Ripoti na mawasilisho yake yalikuwa wazi kuwa Mh. Lowasa afanye anachodhani ni sahihi, sijaona kama liambiwa ajiuzulu. Aliona mwenyewe kuwa kujiuzulu ndio sahihi. Maana pia alikuwa na choice ya kutokujiuzulu na akamuacha Rais amfukuze kazi kama yeye anaamini kuwa yusafi na hahusiki na skandali ya Richmond.

Hata hivyo kama Mh Lowasa kashinikizwa kujiuzulu haki yake ya kikatiba "free speech" ipo atoe utetezi wake

Pia Mh. Lowasa kama championi wa collective responsibility mawaziri wawili, Taasisi muhimu (TAKUKURU) na Mwanasheria Mkuu wanapohusishwa na tuhuma kubwa/nzito namna hii wajibu wake ni nini??

Hawa ni walinzi wa kile tunacho kipiga vita TZ, KULINDANA, Mwenzetu
Haya hayaleti maendeleo wala uwajibikaji wa mtu binafsi

Challenge is to Maintain the momentum alas we go back to the old ways..

Ukwelii,

Sioni kama Warioba anachemka, Warioba ana set high standards kwa nchi yetu.

The dilemma ni kwamba, saa nyingine hizi high standards ndiyo zinatupa vitu kama "Ripoti ya Warioba". An eloquent document ambayo kutokana na technicalities imebaki kwenye makabrasha.

Kwa hiyo kama unataka results tu bila kujali process na rule of law, then Mwakyembe ameharakisha mambo fresh tumemtoa Lowassa kama inavyotakiwa.

Kama unajali rule of law na fairness,Mwakyembe amekosea kutomhoji Lowassa.

 

[Kichuguu]

Baada ya kusoma ripoti ile, nina imani kuwa hata kama Lowasa angeitwa na kutoa utetezi wake, isingesaidia kabisa. Credibility yake ilishakuwa crippled sana kiasi kuwa utetezi wowote ulikuwa unazidi kuonyesha udhaifu wake badala ya kumsaidia. Utetezi kama "serikali ilikuwa na nia njema" ni utetezi dhaifu sana hasa ukizingatia historia ya awali ya mkataba ule ambapo kampuni ambapo serikali iliichagua kwa kuzingatia maagizo ya Waziri Mkuu ilikuwa ni ya mwisho kabisa kwa kufeli vigezo vyote 13 vya awali.

 

[Madela Wa- Madilu]

Warioba is a Past thing, Dr Mwakyembe is the future.

Juzi hapa alisimama kidete kutetea Mafisadi akidai hakuna jipya.

Warioba ni bora unyamaze tu kuliko kujifanya kuongelea haki ambayo wewe na washirika wengine mmetunyima watanzania kwa muda wote tangu tupate uhuru.

Siku ikifika jiandae kuulizwa maswali juu ya Ufisadi wa BOT, hatujasahau kwamba jina lako limo humo kama mshiriki wa namna fulani.

 

[Pundit]

amen....

labda tumuulize pundit, dowans ni kampuni iko wapi///
dowans owners ni nani////
check wanazopewa zinawekwa acct gani///
google dowans uone utapata info gani//
kampuni imeundwa pale pale dar, ikasemekana inatoka uae.
ngoja nikupe msaada kidogo, angalia waarabu wa kempinski, halafu angalia nani kapewa hotel 77 arusha kwa mabavu, halafu angalia dowans, then angalia caspian, halafu rudi vodacom uone owners ni kina nani halafu jumlisha balali alikuwa anahang na watu gani huku wanasip wine za 1960s.

usione watu wajinga, mwambie lowassa aende mahakamani then kudai haki ushahidi uletwe.

Moe,

Maswali yote hayo ni irrelevant to my argument,na argument aliyoitoa Warioba.

Argument ya kwamba regardless whether Lowassa is implicated or not, Lowassa was not questioned, and without that the report does not have his side of the story and technically one sided.

A huge flaw.

 

[Madela Wa- Madilu]

Ukwelii,

Sioni kama Warioba anachemka, Warioba ana set high standards kwa nchi yetu.

The dilemma ni kwamba, saa nyingine hizi high standards ndiyo zinatupa vitu kama "Ripoti ya Warioba". An eloquent document ambayo kutokana na technicalities imebaki kwenye makabrasha.

Kwa hiyo kama unataka results tu bila kujali process na rule of law, then Mwakyembe ameharakisha mambo fresh tumemtoa Lowassa kama inavyotakiwa.

Kama unajali rule of law na fairness,Mwakyembe amekosea kutomhoji Lowassa.

Who dont care about rule of law?

Us,wananchi or them,Government official?

 

[Pundit]

Baada ya kusoma ripoti ile, nina imani kuwa hata kama Lowasa angeitwa na kutoa utetezi wake, isingesaidia kabisa. Credibility yake ilishakuwa crippled sana kiasi kuwa utetezi wowote ulikuwa unazidi kuonyesha udhaifu wake badala ya kumsaidia. Utetezi kama "serikali ilikuwa na nia njema" ni utetezi dhaifu sana hasa ukizingatia historia ya awali ya mkataba ule ambapo kampuni ambapo serikali iliichagua kwa kuzingatia maagizo ya Waziri Mkuu ilikuwa ni ya mwisho kabisa kwa kufeli vigezo vyote 13 vya awali.

Ahsante kichuguu,

Ingekuwa vizuri zaidi kama Lowassa angekuwa cornered akashindwa kujitetea kimsingi, akakosa hata kusema kuwa "sikupewa nafasi ya kujitetea"

Sasa hivi alichofanya Mwakyembe ni kumpa nafasi Lowassa kusema kuwa hakupewa nafasi ya kujitetea.

 

[Pundit]

Who dont care about rule of law?

Us,wananchi or them,Government official?

Nasema mtu yeyote anayejali rule of law na due process ataona kuwa the basic tenets za fairness hazikufuatwa.

Mwananchi wa kawaida wa Tanzania hata hajui rule of law ni nini, sembuse ku care.

 

[Madela Wa- Madilu]

Ahsante kichuguu,

Ingekuwa vizuri zaidi kama Lowassa angekuwa cornered akashindwa kujitetea kimsingi, akakosa hata kusema kuwa "sikupewa nafasi ya kujitetea"

Sasa hivi alichofanya Mwakyembe ni kumpa nafasi Lowassa kusema kuwa hakupewa nafasi ya kujitetea.

Ok anataka nafasi yakujitetea?

Vizuri.

Tukutane Kisutu, pale kwa Pilato, tena aje na utetezi wake wote.

 

[Kichuguu]

Kichuguu,'
Nasikia hata kule Musoma watu walikuwa wanasherehekea kuondolewa kwa Lowassa.
Watu walijua jeuri na ulafi wake.

Ingawa matatizo yetu hayajaisha, hata mimi nimefurahi sana kwa vile najua tumetua mzigo mmoja wa fisi.

 

[Pundit]

Warioba is a Past thing, Dr Mwakyembe is the future.

Juzi hapa alisimama kidete kutetea Mafisadi akidai hakuna jipya.

Warioba ni bora unyamaze tu kuliko kujifanya kuongelea haki ambayo wewe na washirika wengine mmetunyima watanzania kwa muda wote tangu tupate uhuru.

Siku ikifika jiandae kuulizwa maswali juu ya Ufisadi wa BOT, hatujasahau kwamba jina lako limo humo kama mshiriki wa namna fulani.

MADELA,

I hope you do not fail to see beyond personalities and take a look at the principles.I am not interested in Warioba as a person, he is contrary to your statement (the past), rather more of an elderly statesman.

I am more interested in what he said and the principle behind it.Tatizo ni kuwa tunataka kuwa simplistic, sasa hivi as long as you are against Lowassa anything goes and people cheer.

Ndesamburo kasema bungeni na hansard imerekodi kuwa "China watu kama hawa wanapigwa risasi" ina maana Ndesamburo anataka ku endorse sheria za kichina kuwapiga risasi mafisadi? Kama mtunga sheria na kweli ana passion na hilo kwa nini asi table motion hiyo iwe sheria? Najua kuna watu wanashabikia vitu kama hivyo regardless ya principles zetu.

Inabidi tuwe na uwezo wa kwenda zaidi ya for and against na kuchambua vitu hivi with a sophisticated eye.

 

[Mkandara]

Kichuguu,
Naelewa sana kuwa Mwinyi hakuhusika moja kwa moja lakini swala hapa ni mfumo wa CCM kuwabeba watu ambao tayari wamekwisha jiuzuru kutokana na makosa yaliyofanyika... which mean hawana ajira tena serikalini kisha watu hawahawa wanabadilishwa wizara na kupewa madaraka kama yaleyale isipokuwa wizara tofauti ama kupanda ngazi, wakati hakuna kitu walichofanya kuonyesha wamejifunza na makosa kama yale hayawezi rudiwa..hapo ni kutaka kufanya majaribio ya maabara ktk maslahi ya Taifa zima. Hii ni process mbovu sana na inakuwaje ndani ya chama CCM sivyo wanavyofanya....

 

[Kichuguu]

Ahsante kichuguu,

Ingekuwa vizuri zaidi kama Lowassa angekuwa cornered akashindwa kujitetea kimsingi, akakosa hata kusema kuwa "sikupewa nafasi ya kujitetea"

Sasa hivi alichofanya Mwakyembe ni kumpa nafasi Lowassa kusema kuwa hakupewa nafasi ya kujitetea.

Hata hivyo, ukipitia terms of reference ambazo Mwakyembe alikuwa amepewa, huwezi kuona nafasi ya Waziri Mkuu au ya Lowasa kwenye uchunguzi ule.

 

[Dua]

..AKIHOJIWA na tido muhando jana ..waziri mkuu mstaafu jaji joseph warioba akiungwa mkono na mwenyekiti wa taasisi ya mwalimu nyerere ..joseph butiku..,warioba ameongelea sakata la richmond..na kusema ripoti haikuwa mbaya ..

hata hivyo warioba ameelezwa kusikitishwa kwake na kitendo kwa utaratibu wa haki kukiukwa kwa ripoti kubwa kama hiyo kuonesha udhaifu wa kutomuhoji MTUHUMIWA MKUU.,amesema hilo kiutaratibu si sawa na kisheria imesababisha haki isionekane kutendeka..alimlaumu mbunge lucas dseleli na mwakyembe kwa hilo..HATA hivyo seleli alijitetea kuwa wao walikuwa wakijiuliza kama wamuite wakaona anaweza kukataa..wakafikiria kumuuliza rais kama wamuite ..pia wakaacha na mwisho wakaamua bora tu wapeleke ripoti bungeni,..hata hivyo warioba aliwaambia kwa kuwa walikuwa hawakumuita..jambo la busara lingeweza kuwa kupeleka ripoti bungeni NA KUTOPENDEKEZA LOLOTE KWA WAZIRI MKUU KWA KUWA YEYE HAKUHOJIWA ..HIVYO BUNGE LINGEFANYA KAZI YA MWISHO YA KUSIKILIZA UTETEZI WAKE ..NA KUAMUA PENDEKEZO AU AZIMIO LA KUTOA KWA RAIS KUHUSU WAZIRI MKUU..ALIMALIZIA KWA KUSEMA KWA KUWA KOSA LA KISHERIA LIMESHAFANYIKA ..IWE FUNZO KWA TUME NYINGINE ZITAKAZOFUATA...KUTOMUHUKUMU MTU BILA KUMSIKILIZA!

Hivi huyu Warioba na Butiku wametoka wapi? Sio hawa waliotuletea huu uvundo kwa kushindwa kwao kazi walipokuwa karibu na usukani? Hivi sasa wanakula pension yao halafu wanataka kukebehi wananchi, hawa ni wezi na hakuna sababu ya kutafuta ushahidi kwa kila jambo.

Kama EL kweli anaona hakutendewa haki afungue mashitaka kulishitaki Bunge na kamati yake. Hatuwezi kuendelea na lelemama kama hizi, kwanza ni lazima ashitakiwe arudishe ubadhirifu wa kulihujumu taifa. Anaweza kutetewa na mtetezi mkuu wa MAFISADI Mkono wa Mkono.

 

[Madela Wa- Madilu]

MADELA,

I hope you do not fail to see beyond personalities and take a look at the principles.I am not interested in Warioba as a person, he is contrary to your statement (the past), rather more of an elderly statesman.

I am more interested in what he said and the principle behind it.Tatizo ni kuwa tunataka kuwa simplistic, sasa hivi as long as you are against Lowassa anything goes and people cheer.

Ndesamburo kasema bungeni na hansard imerekodi kuwa "China watu kama hawa wanapigwa risasi" ina maana Ndesamburo anataka ku endorse sheria za kichina kuwapiga risasi mafisadi? Kama mtunga sheria na kweli ana passion na hilo kwa nini asi table motion hiyo iwe sheria? Najua kuna watu wanashabikia vitu kama hivyo regardless ya principles zetu.

Inabidi tuwe na uwezo wa kwenda zaidi ya for and against na kuchambua vitu hivi with a sophisticated eye.

Warioba is a past in everything agewise and the way he reacts to events that touches nation interests.

Katika ripoti ile waziri mkuu alijaziwa lawama.

Je, kuna kifungu kilimtaka waziri mkuu ajihuzuru?

 

[Pundit]

Hata hivyo, ukipitia terms of reference ambazo Mwakyembe alikuwa amepewa, huwezi kuona nafasi ya Waziri Mkuu au ya Lowasa kwenye uchunguzi ule.

Wale walipewa dili kuchunguza Richmond au sio? In principle ilitakiwa hata kama wangechunguza na kuona rais au makamu wake yuko implicated ilitakiwa wamuhoji.

 

[BAK]

Hawa Dowans ilikuwa ni kuendeleza ufisadi ili kuzima kelele zilizoshamiri za Richmonduli. Hawa nao ni wezi wengine.

 

[Pundit]

Warioba is a past in everything agewise and the way he reacts to events that touches nation interests.

Katika ripoti ile waziri mkuu alijaziwa lawama.

Je, kuna kifungu kilimtaka waziri mkuu ajihuzuru?

The past is an illusion.

Kama kuna kifungu au hakuna kifungu kinachomtaka ajiuzulu is not material to the issue.The issue ni kwamba the report is one sided and did not get Lowassas input and did not afford him a chance to clarify things from his viewpoint.