Does everthing happen for specific reason?????

[Wi-Fi]

.....jambo linalotokea 'bila sababu,' ndio sababu yenyewe hiyo!

Mkuu Sio bila sababu tu, labda niseme bila 'proximate cause'

 

[neggirl]

Polee, kama mbeleni ukija kugundua sababu ya yaliyokukuta please usisite kutu-update hapa!!

Asante mydia! Kwa bahati mbaya sidhani kama naweza kujibu kitu coz ni lazima nihusishe imani. Na weye umetamani iwe nje ya imani.

 

[salimkabora]

This piece of babble is not a complete sentence, it is logically unsound and structurally hanging, it fails to communicate any way you cut it.

You simply talk to hear your own voice

 

[salimkabora]

Who said that?


Do you? The question is irrelevant due to the wrong premise .

I now know i'm dealing with a con-artist or an ancient spirist

 

[Gaijin]

Belief does not question. If you start questioning you are deviating from belief, you are starting to investigate.

I don’t see the logic in saying, if one investigates the laws behind the making of the universe that he believes god created, then that person doesn’t believe in God!

Belief and questions do not mix. You can't believe and question at the same time.Once you start questioning a degree of belief is corroded, the very idea of questioning is rooted in uncertainty and doubt.

God teaches that everything has a reason/cause, hence investigating those causes is part of glorifying God

The very act of trying to prove implies verification, that there is a lack in the belief that needs to be augmented by proof. Otherwise why prove something you already believe?

There is believing and there is knowing. You investigate so you can know.

If you believe in god, at least the Arahamic godhead, investigating god is a blasphemy and certain questions cannot be asked. If you do not believe in god, you do not have this glass ceiling.

What is investigating god? There is nothing wrong in believing in god and investigating proofs of his might. You investigate to prove that he is there not to question if he is there.

There is a kid who as killed in Syria for saying that he would not give his wares for free even if the Prophet Muhammad himself came to his stall.

He was killed for blaspheming prophet Muhammad. Do you think a society like this will tolerate a deep investigation into the nature and existence of god? One would be killed instantly by martyrs rallying for the cause of god.

There is a huge difference between believing in God, organized religions and mob psychology. What the boy said, is being said daily in other places in the world, and is not taken as blasphemy. Besides, in Syria right now, you might get killed for frowning when Assad’s picture was being stomped on. So religion was just an excuse. The Syria of the old, under early Islamic civilization made significant contributions to astronomy, medicine and engineering. How did they get there without investigations?
Or maybe that day was just extra hot, or the previous night was a full moon 🙂

A one eyed person can have the best vision in the land of the blind and become king of the blind.

Just because he is king of the blind it does not mean he has 20/20 vision and should be regarded to have the best vision in the land of 20/20 vision.

Newton was also involved in all sorts of crackpot alchemy to create gold and similar laughable quackery characteristic of the denizens of that Malthusian squalor infested and Dickensian delinquency century, do you want us to uphold that too?

You are joking, right? Doing “alchemy” means nothing less than his keenness in doing investigations. Even now when the absurdity of alchemy has come to light, to sum up his work, we can only say “he was a very smart fool who believed in God” (….and his foolishness is in his tinkering with alchemy and not in believing in god :d ….. mmh maybe it was more than just a tinker…mmh)

 

[Kiranga]

You simply talk to hear your own voice

That's where you are wrong.

First off, I don't talk here at JF, I write.

 

[Kiranga]

I now know i'm dealing with a con-artist or an ancient spirist

Do you know that you know or do you merely think that you know? What is your margin of error?

By the way "spirist" is not a word.

Learn to spell already, can't you even use the free spellchecker?

 

[Kiranga]

I don't see the logic in saying, if one investigates the laws behind the making of the universe that he believes god created, then that person doesn't believe in God!

If you believe in god, why investigate?

God teaches that everything has a reason/cause, hence investigating those causes is part of glorifying God

Why should an omnipotent omniscient omnipresent godhead need glorification from mere mortals in the first place? How should that even be possible?

There is believing and there is knowing. You investigate so you can know.

If you really believe, why should you want to know? Wanting to know implies a dissatisfaction with belief. Those who are satisfied with belief would not want to know, those wanting to know are not satisfied by belief.

What is investigating god? There is nothing wrong in believing in god and investigating proofs of his might.

The moment you start to investigate proofs, you stop believing. You cannot believe and investigate at the same time. That is in the real of that Reaganisque deception of "Trust but verify". The very act of verifying implies that you do not trust.If you trust, why verify? You can only verify that which you do not feel comfort with.If you have a pretty god level of comfort that something is so, you have no reason to verify.

I have no reason to verify that I cannot walk through a brick wall. There is no need for me to verify, I trust that I cannot.

Now if I hear that there is an Ebola outbreak in my village, and some people are dying, I would want to verify that my family is OK, because I am not sure. You can only verify that which you have doubt about. You cannot verify something that you have belief in.

You investigate to prove that he is there not to question if he is there.

If you already believe he is there, why do you need proof? Proof is a need for those with doubt, not believers.

There is a huge difference between believing in God, organized religions and mob psychology.

What is the difference? Have you investigated all organized religions before this sweeping generalization?

What the boy said, is being said daily in other places in the world, and is not taken as blasphemy. Besides, in Syria right now, you might get killed for frowning when Assad's picture was being stomped on. So religion was just an excuse.

Religion is an excuse alright.The biggest excuse for people to not think for themselves the world has ever known.

The Syria of the old, under early Islamic civilization made significant contributions to astronomy, medicine and engineering. How did they get there without investigations?

You are ignoring that what I wrote is not that religious societies are not capable of investigations, but rather, the investigations are limited by the god idea.

Or maybe that day was just extra hot, or the previous night was a full moon 🙂

Lousy excuses for a murderous rampage.

You are joking, right? Doing "alchemy" means nothing less than his keenness in doing investigations.

You are totally missing the point. Alchemy is a relic of a goneby age. Get the message? You are drawing from a well that is poisoned by the Malthusian scum and the limitations of that age and upholding that water as being laser filtered.

Even now when the absurdity of alchemy has come to light, to sum up his work, we can only say "he was a very smart fool who believed in God" (….and his foolishness is in his tinkering with alchemy and not in believing in god :d ….. mmh maybe it was more than just a tinker…mmh)

The problem here, as is often the case with believers, is the focus on personalities and building cults around them and not ideas. So if you focus on the principle of focusing on ideas instead of people, the entire notion of invoking Newton as an endorsement for the belief in god is laughably quaint. Why, Newton himself had the humility to admit that he is but a child exploring a pebble while the great sea lay unexplored ahead of him. And he was right, he was working in the realm of classical physics in an age when quantum physics was undiscovered, time was considered absolute, universal, unidirectional and separate from space. We have since found out all of these to be untruths.Why do you want me to take some untestable ideas from Newton about god as the truth?

 

[Gaijin]

The problem here, as is often the case with believers, is the focus on personalities and building cults around them and not ideas. So if you focus on the principle of focusing on ideas instead of people

So aatheists are allowed to point out examples, but believers are not!

the entire notion of invoking Newton as an endorsement for the belief in god is laughably quaint.

You missed the point entirely. Newton was not mentioned as an endorsement for the belief of God. Not at all. It was to show that believing in god does not stop a person from being investigative of unknown things

Why, Newton himself had the humility to admit that he is but a child exploring a pebble while the great sea lay unexplored ahead of him.

Nobody said anything about him being a super human. Or anymore special than other people who have contributed to science.

Why do you want me to take some untestable ideas from Newton about god as the truth?

I never asked you to do that. I don't know how you came up with that conclusion!

 

[Nyani Ngabu]

There is nothing wrong in believing in god and investigating proofs of his might.

Believing something means accepting it as true. So if you accept everything said about god then what's the point of investigating anything about him/her/it?

Because once you venture into the realms of investigation that right there is proof that you don't believe all or some of what is being said hence the reason(s) for you to try to find out the facts in order to know.

You investigate to prove that he is there not to question if he is there.

Embarking upon investigation is in itself questioning. Why? Because you have already expressed doubt about whatever it is that you believe and that's why you want to know more.

 

[Kiranga]

Believing something means accepting something as true. So if you accept everything said about god then what's the point of investigating anything about him/her/it?

Because once you venture into the realms of investigation that right there is proof that you don't believe all or some of what is being said hence the reason(s) for you to try to find out the facts in order to know.



Embarking upon investigation is in itself questioning. Why? Because you have already expressed doubt about whatever it is that you believe and that's why you want to know more.

I have repeatedly tried to impart this and impress some basic logic onto this lady on this account to no avail.

There is a fundamental contradiction in believing something and trying to investigate the nature of it's veracity at the same time.

 

[Kiranga]

So aatheists are allowed to point out examples, but believers are not!

Atheists by definition cannot point to prophets. And no, the Ayatollah Dawkins was saying that in a lighthearted manner.

You missed the point entirely. Newton was not mentioned as an endorsement for the belief of God. Not at all. It was to show that believing in god does not stop a person from being investigative of unknown things

You have demonstrated that Newton's belief, as is also the case with almost all believers, was lacking.The mere investigations in the nature of god implies verification and takes away from belief.

Nobody said anything about him being a super human. Or anymore special than other people who have contributed to science.

Which should be more of a reason to look at processes and ideas, not cults of personalities.

I never asked you to do that. I don't know how you came up with that conclusion!

You touted Newton as an authority in a matter he himself admitted knew very little about.You touted him as being both an icon of investigation and belief in god, while, by mixing the two, he lacked in both.

 

[Gaijin]

Nyani Ngabu , Kiranga

Because you guys think belief is black and white- either you have it or you dont. In reality it is not absolute

Hizo dini zinazofuatwa zinakwambia uenende ukatafute dalili za Mungu ili uongeze imani yako

Kwa hiyo kila unavyotafuta hizo dalili, ndipo imani yako inavyoongezeka

 

[Kiranga]

Nyani Ngabu , Kiranga

Because you guys think belief is black and white- either you have it or you dont. In reality it is not absolute

Which is why belief is not knowledge, it is not even the pursuit of knowledge, because it is a value system that is not rooted in knowledge, but rather in submission.

Hizo dini zinazofuatwa zinakwambia uenende ukatafute dalili za Mungu ili uongeze imani yako

Hizo dini dini gani? Hizi Judeo-Christian/ Abrahamic ambazo kila zinachosema pahala pamoja ukitaka kutafuta pengine zinapoji contradict utapata?

Huku zinakwambia nenda katafute dalili ya mungu ili uongeze imani yako, huku zinakwambia mungu anataka total submission and belief, how could the two be reconciled?

Kwa hiyo kila unavyotafuta hizo dalili, ndipo imani yako inavyoongezeka

Kitendo cha kutafuta kuwepo kwa mungu tu kishaonesha kupungua kwa imani.

Ni kama mimi nakupa bidada kibunda, nakwambia "kanunue viatu, kiasi fulani hicho". Halafu unambie "Hewalla bwana, ngoja nihesabu nihakiki".

Nitaamini kwamba una imani na uwezo wangu wa kukupa kiasi nilichosema? Nitakuona ama unaona nakupunja kwa makusudi unataka kuhakikisha, ama unaona inawezekana nikawa nimeghafilika na kufikiri nimekupa kiasi nilichosema lakini nimekosea kuhesabu, unahakiki.

Kama una imani kabisa siwezi kukosea, na nina wakfu wa kiwalii usioniwezesha kukosa kukupa kiasi ambacho nimesema, kwa nini uanze kuhesabu pesa kama unapokea kwa karani wa benki?

When examining the very nature of the deity you cannot go willy-nilly fifty shades of grey, you have to nail down matters and penetrate them deeply in the fundaments.

 

[salimkabora]

Do you know that you know or do you merely think that you know? What is your margin of error?

By the way "spirist" is not a word.

Learn to spell already, can't you even use the free spellchecker?

It is a swahili word meaning kiranga

 

[salimkabora]

Do you know that you know or do you merely think that you know? What is your margin of error?

You mean resolution?

 

[Kiranga]

You mean resolution?

Of course you won't understand.

 

[salimkabora]

Of course you won't understand.

That's pure kiranga you know