ATCL: Another Richmond!

Kulikoni
Maelezo yako kutoka kwa wataalamu (if there were any experts at all) yamenivuta kuandika kidogo.

Utaalamu uliotakiwa uuleze hapa ni costing and pricing. Nje ya hapo ni ubabaishaji tu kama wa swahiba Kikwete. Alitetea dili la Richmond kwamba unit price ilikuwa ndogo zaidi kuliko makampuni mengine. Hata kama hatujui details za mikataba hiyo, lakini hatuwezi kukubali maelezo ya kibabaishaji. We know the principles.

Unit price ni kipengele kimoja tu katika mkataba wowote ule. One has to look at total costs.
 
Invincible said:
Kulikoni
Maelezo yako kutoka kwa wataalamu (if there were any experts at all) yamenivuta kuandika kidogo.

Utaalamu uliotakiwa uuleze hapa ni costing and pricing. Nje ya hapo ni ubabaishaji tu kama wa swahiba Kikwete. Alitetea dili la Richmond kwamba unit price ilikuwa ndogo zaidi kuliko makampuni mengine. Hata kama hatujui details za mikataba hiyo, lakini hatuwezi kukubali maelezo ya kibabaishaji. We know the principles.

Unit price ni kipengele kimoja tu katika mkataba wowote ule. One has to look at total costs.
Click to expand...

Invincible,

Lugha unayoongea wewe ndio hiyo nnayoongea mimi on the other side. Kwamba, hii bei peke yake haitoshi kuconclude kuwa the deal is bogus.. nor is it great. And if we are to look at the price only, dili hili inabidi lisifiwe badala ya kulaumiwa! So, what I'm saying is we don't have enough data to conclude.

By the way, mtaalam alienipa baadhi ya hizo hints si katika wahusika wa ATCL wa hili dili.
 
Bandugu hivi ni lini tutajifunza: kumbukeni ndege zilizokudishwa 1980's kutoka Middle East nafikiri ile dili ilimuhusu Kashogi etc. baada ya ule mkataba kufutwa wale jamaa wenye ndege walishindwa hata kuzilipia na moja nafikiri ilifia pale uwaja wa ndege wakataka kuifanya night club.

TZ YOU WILL NEVER LEARN!
 
Kulikoni,

Hapa mshikaji utakuwa umerukia hoja bila kuzama zaidi kutaka kufahamu.
Hizo dollar 75 kwa siku ni gari gani linalokodishwa kwa bei hiyo na linagharimu kiasi gani likiwa jipya!..What if gari nalozungumzia linagharimu USd 150,000 likiwa jipya!..

Pili,
Umesema kuwa Usd 1.2/m kwa mwaka ni bei nafuu bila kufikiria kuwa shirika la ATCL pia sio shirika litakalo dumu miaka miwili ya contract. Ni shirika ambalo litaendelea kuwepo kwa miaka, na mwisho umeacha kipengele cha kufikiria kuwa hao wenyewe tuliowakodisha bado wanalipia gharama za ndege hiyo hiyo huko walikoinunua. Kwa hiyo hapa tunawalipia hawa jamaa gharama zao na ndege bado ni ya kwao.
Kulikoni,
Unafahamu vizuri kabisa kuwa Boieng hawauzi ndege zao kwa cash kama biashara za Bongo. Hiyo USD. 1.2/m ingekuwa malipo ktk mkopo wa mwaka kwa ndege (hata kama mara 2 au 3 zaidi). Pia sheria nyingi za ndege zinaweza kutu - limit kwani hawa jamaa kufikia kutupa sisi ndege kwa bei hiyo inawezekana kabisa kuwa ndege hizo zina matatizo fulani!..

Kifupi ndege mpya ingelifanya Shirika letu jipya lingekuwa na mwanzo mpya, lingeweza kuwa na ndege mpya kabisa na ya kisasa, kumbuka tu zile za mwanzo zimedumu miaka mingapi!..
 
Mkandara wafurahisha sana.

Hilo gari likiwa la $150K, ni sawa na kama miaka mitano hivi ya kulipa $75 kwa siku. ... while gari la gharama hiyo unatarajia litakuwa in good condition for a lot more than 5 years.. na kisha ni la kwako. Anyway, this is a side issue.

USD 1.2M ni kwa miaka yote miwili ya leasing, sio mwaka mmoja.

Yes, Boeing hawauzi kwa cash. But I can bet you installments zao haziwezi kuwa anywhere near the $50K per month. Maana, assuming the price is $40M (nimeishusha from the $47M iliyo katika website), you will need a down payment of ..usually 10% i.e. 4M na kisha monthly installments for the rest of the amount. Kawaida ni miaka 20, but let's take miaka 30. Ili kulipa the remaining 36M in 30 years, inabidi ulipe $100K per month!

Kwa hiyo kuna 4M + $100K per month for 30 years.

Kama ATCL wanazo pesa, this would still be a good deal as ndege inakuwa ni ya kwao. Lakini kwa shirika hohe hahe kama lilivyo, I still think price wise leasing at $50K was good, if there is no wierd catch in the agreement and the condition of the aircraft. Within financial constraints, the move is good to get back on air without a big capital. My logical assumption is that they will use these 2 yrs to get funds from internal and external sources so that they can buy their own air crafts, and no need to re-lease for another term.

I repeat my conclusion, we don't have enough data to conclude that this deal is good or bad. And if we choose to look at the price ONLY, it was a great deal!
 
Kulikoni,
ndugu yangu wewe mtetezi mzuri sana wa deal hii mbovu...
naona hapa umesahau kuwa gari hilo la laki moja unusu unalihitaji kwa muda wa miaka miwili tu kama unavyochukulia deal la ndege!
Hivi hata kama ni $ 100K kwa mwezi unajua zinakuja na vimbwanga vipi... maintanance bure kwa miaka kadhaa.! seat design unavyotaka wewe na mengine mengi tu.
Ndugu yangu ndege kupelekwa maintanace unajua gharama zake?..je, unafahamu kuwa hiyo ndege tuliyo i ground tumeshindwa costs za maintanance kwa sababu ndege yenyewe imesha choka!..
Bado unasahau kuwa ndege ni yako!..je, Tuliwezaje wakati wa Nyerere ikiwa hesabu zako zina uzito kiasi cha sisi kukodisha!.
In two years, kwa ndege za kukodisha ambazo si ajabu zimekwisha muda wa guarantee ya maintanance, pili Insurance yake hatufahamu - safety na mengine mengi yanachangia kuwa bure siku zote ni ghali!..Huu msemo hauna kipingamizi.
hata kama nikifuata mtazamo wako wewe, I mean kama tumekodisha kwa kiasi cha Usd elfu 50 kwa mwezi huoni kama hapa unakodisha Mercedes bus kwa dola 10 kwa siku!..Na huyo aliyekukodisha hilo bus analo shirika la mabus linalokufa. Katika nchi ambayo mashirika ya namna hii huundwa na kufa mwaka hadi mwaka, ndege zinakuwa transfered tuu. Now, jiulize dollar 10 kwa siku kwa bus la Mercedes?

Lini chale zinatucheza mahala ambapo kunanuka!..
 
Naam Bob,

Sasa nadhani tunaelekea kuelewana.

Kama ulisoma vizuri nlivyoandika before nilisema hii bei ni NDOGO mno. Yaani badala ya kuwa na wasiwasi kuwa tumeliwa kwa bei kuwa kubwa... wasi wasi unatakiwa uwe why the price is this low. Yaani too good to be true. Na hapo ndipo nnaposema kuwa, kwa info tulizopewa publicly, hazitutoshi kuconclude haraka kuwa ni dili bovu. All we can do is speculate with what we have. We only speculate that there must be a catch somewhere .. but we don't know. Hayo masuala ya maintanance guarantee kuisha muda, safety, insurance etc ... yote hayo hatujaambiwa tunaspeculate tu kuwa hayatakuwa mema kwetu.. at that price.

Tofauti yangu na wewe, and probably wengineo humu, ni hii opinion yangu - drawn from the calculations I gave - kuwa .. if we are to base our conclusions only on the facts that we have been given, then the conclusion is supposed to be favourable. Wenzangu mmechagua kuconclude mapema kuwa hili dili lazima ni bovu ... which I can also understand, na ndio maana nlianza kwa usemi kuwa 'ukishaumwa na nyoka basi hata ujani ukikugusa unashtuka'!
 
Kulikoni mzee anakuja next week, wewe huwezi kumwambia ukweli. Kuwa na uchungu na nchi yako ndugu yangu. lete vitu hapa vya maana.

Mambo ya anasa yanapita tu, tulikuja hatuna kitu na tutarudi hatuna kitu 6 feet under. Huu mkataba ni bomu tununue ndege mpya kwani hizi tayari watu watazisusia kutokana na historia yake.
 
Kulikoni,
Shukrani, napoona nawe unaanza kuja vizuri ktk msitari sambasamba nasi...
Ebu turudi nyuma umesema swala la Insurance, Safety na Maintanance ni vitu ambavyo tuna speculate!.. how come?
Hapo huoni kama unakosea kusema hivyo kwani vitu hivi ni muhimu sana na lazima ktk biashara yeyote?
Hakuna kampuni yoyote ile inayoweza kukupa maintanance guaratee kwa third part hilo unalifahamu, Safety na Insurance ni lazima kwa biashara yoyote kwa hiyo hizi sio speculation.. ni lazima ziwepo kwa shirika letu ili liweze kufanya kazi.
Pili, katika shughuli hizi za consultation za biashara tunasema kila siku kuwa Business plan huanzia penye BIASHARA yenyewe ambayo itakupa VIFAA vinavyotakiwa..(short or long term) na sio ununuzi wa VIFAA kwanza kuijenga BIASHARA - sijui kama tafsiri hii ipo wazi.
Yaani hapa ATCL wametumia lugha ya vifaa kwanza kujenga biashara!...kama vile mabaharia wanavyonunua mabus ya daladala huko nje kuja kutafuta tender nyumbani huku hawana uhakika na biashara.... No future plan!
ATCL ni shirika la ndege la taifa na mradi huu sio wa miaka miwili ama mitatu kufikia uamuzi wa kununua ndege za ku-lease. Je, baada ya miaka miwili wataangalia hali ya biashara ili kutoa maamuzi ya kunendesha shirika la taifa! au ndipo watakapo fikia uamuzi wa kununua ndege mpya!
Haya yametokea ktk mradi wa kitaifa wa nguvu za umeme kiasi ambacho serikali yetu inashindwa kuelewa kuwa Umeme sio mradi wa kufikiriwa in short terms. Unapojenga unajenga kitu kwa kutazama mbele miaka zaidi ya kumi ijayo....na sio kununua Generators za kukidhi leo na kesho hadi hapo sijui nchi itakapo kuwa tajiri.
Haya EL alikwenda Thailand na kupata mganga wa mvua, leo hii kama huyo mganga angekuwa kesha fika angejivuna sana na mvua alizoleta Mungu kwa sababu tu ilionekana cheap machoni kwa EL... only USd 2/m! Hapo EL hakufikiria kabisa kesho na kesho kutwa kwa taifa letu kiuchumi isipokuwa kuficha ama kuondoa lawama zilizokuwepo. And thats what ATCL wanachofanya hapa.. Rushwa ni kama kazi bob, hii ni kichombezo cha Mdanganyika yeyote! Ulaji ni lazima... no doubt!
Swala la umeme sio swala la kuridhisha macho ya watu ni nguzo ya uchumi wa nchi, na shirika la ndege ni moja kati ya vitega uchumi muhimu vya nchi huru.
 
Mkandara,

Naomba niclarify zaidi ... ingawa nadhani nliandika vizuri tu kabla.

Nnaposema suala la Insurance, Safety na Maintanance tunaspeculate, simaanishi tunaspeculate kuwepo au kutokuwepo kwake ... bali tunaspeculate whether they are good or bad in this case. Hatujaambiwa vikoje katika hiyo leasing agreement.

Yes, long term plan has to be done... and I hope it is being done. But when you have some stranded passengers and your plane is grounded, na huna pesa za kununua mpya at the moment..... leasing some aircrafts at a reasonable cost while working on the long term plan is a very logical thing to do, as far as I am concerned. Maswali tu ni whether there is a wierd catch or not.

On a side note, we know that tangu serikali ilichukue tena hili shirika la ATCL by buying back the shares from south africans .. bado hajateuliwa mkuu mpya wa shirika. It is one of the pending presidential appointments. I would assume that it is not fair to make any long term commitments before the new guy gets into the office .. as he would be tied to agreements he was not involved in, which will limit his decision making, strategies and effectiveness at the post. It would have been better if the appointment was done even before this leasing thing was done.

Mengineyo nadhani tuko pamoja.
 
Mzee Mwanakijiji said:
Why Boeing 737-200 that is all that I want to know!
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If and only if the facts that are coming out are corrrect: the only explanation would be because Boeing 737-200 are the only ones who are desperately in need of getting rid of the two 'crippled birds'. The world must know by now that its only in Tz where you can make a dirty deal and get away with it: Remember the Kigamboni ferry saga, the radar saga, the Richmonduli saga...and many many others before them; hawa wazungu wanafuatilia, they have their ears and eyes on the ground such that they know where theres a mteremko. Nasikitika tu kwamba, like somebody said, we never learn. Or may be we do, its only that we are so greedy and money hungry that we are deliberately blind. Sio kweli kwamba hii issue imepitishwa kimya kimya; I want to beleive that before these deals are concluded the head of the state must know; he is surrounded by legal, economic,etc experts; does he ever make use of them? or do they ever advise him.
Inaniuma sana kuona vile hii nchi inajidhalilisha; imagine, from one scandal to another, as if we are all fools: and to think that UDSM in its prime time did produce the best products in and outside TZ! where are they? uzalendo karibu utatushinda; unatetea nchi kama mkatoliki anavyotetea padri na bado uozo unaendelea
God bless us!
 
(1). Richmonduli - mkataba wa kukodi generators for two years,

(2). ATCL - mkataba kukodi ndege mbili ambazo life span yake iko mashakani haziruhusiwi kutua katika baadhi ya viwanja huko ulaya for two years,

(3). Kufukuza au kuwaonya viongozi wa Dar Es Salaam kumaliza kipindupindu for two weeks,

(4). Kufuta leseni za biashara ya wanunuzi wa korosho wasipoanza kununua zao hilo time given two weeks.

This government has got a two year and two weeks syndrome, very shortly they will start two months etc.

The big question is; Do they know any other way of governing?
 
Dua said:
(1). Richmonduli - mkataba wa kukodi generators for two years,

(2). ATCL - mkataba kukodi ndege mbili ambazo life span yake iko mashakani haziruhusiwi kutua katika baadhi ya viwanja huko ulaya for two years,

(3). Kufukuza au kuwaonya viongozi wa Dar Es Salaam kumaliza kipindupindu for two weeks,

(4). Kufuta leseni za biashara ya wanunuzi wa korosho wasipoanza kununua zao hilo time given two weeks.

This government has got a two year and two weeks syndrome, very shortly they will start two months etc.

The big question is; Do they know any other way of governing?
Click to expand...

Dua
I love that stuff.
 
MwanaKJJ ndiyo ukweli huo and they are both stretching ama wanatuzuga ?
 
Kuna mtu aliyemshawishi Rais kukubali dili hili ingawa mwenye alikiri kuwa alikuwa na mashaka nalo. Swali ni nani aliyemshawishi Rais kuendelea na mkataba huu na kwa sababu gani! Tukimjua huyo, tutaelewa the powers behing the throne!
 
Kuna mtu ? Kama u wanna know the powers behind the throne basi ni greedness na 20%
 
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