The War Crimes Charges Against Al Bashir

[Koba]

yaani, kati ya mambo yote ya kutetea, wanasimama kumtetea Bashir?

....the same foolishness all over again ...nimeanza kumkumbuka Nyerere maana hili asingevumilia angeanza kuwa train hao jamaa wa kusini wamchape Bashir

 

[Nyani Ngabu]

yaani, kati ya mambo yote ya kutetea, wanasimama kumtetea Bashir?

go figure....

 

[lidoda]

Walichemsha kwenye Zimbabwe sasa wana hamia Darfur!

Hao wanaouwawa huko Darfur ni NGOZI NYEUSI WAKRISTO!

Na Janjaweed ni WAARABU TU KAMA ROSTAMA na Omar Al Bashir mwenyewe!

Chunga sana JK kwani inaonyesha unamsikiliza sana Rostam na bado unafanya hivyo...Kwani msimamo huu si wa Tanzania bali wako wewe na Rostam na waarabu wengine!


Huyo Bashir aliwahi hata kumpa OSAMA BIN LADEN MAKAZI NA KUMPA NAFASI KAMA RAIS WETU ALIVYOMPA Rosama nafasi!

Bin Laden alikuwa na viwanda hata vya madawa huko Sudan na Bashir mwenyewe kampiga tafu sana!

Na hata sasa si shaka bado anawasiliana na Bin Laden na inawezekana anajuwa alipo.

JK...Usije washington kwani misimamo yako ni ya kigaidi na pia hutaki HAKI!

Bwana Mushi hii viata ya Darfur si kati ya wakristo na Waislam ni vita kati ya waarabu ambao wenye ku control government against Africans tribes ambao nao ni waislamu. Lengo la central government ni ku wipe hao waafrika kupitia hawa janjawid. Wanataka kuwaangamiza hao Wa darfur kusudi wa control utajiri.
Darfur ni tajiri sana kwa mafuta na hata climate yake ni nzuri sana. Hivyo basi kwa kutumia chinese millitary machines wanawaua raia na ku wabaka wanawake na mara nyingi wanatumia ku wa starve civilians as a weapons.
Hapa hawa Wachina ni responsible kwa kila genocide inayofanyika huko Darfur.
Naunga mkono Bashir ashikwe na akajibu mashitaka.
Sio Bashiri peke yake hata Mgabe nae lazima aende huko ICC

 

[jmushi1]

bwana Mushi Hii Viata Ya Darfur Si Kati Ya Wakristo Na Waislam Ni Vita Kati Ya Waarabu Ambao Wenye Ku Control Government Against Africans Tribes Ambao Nao Ni Waislamu. Lengo La Central Government Ni Ku Wipe Hao Waafrika Kupitia Hawa Janjawid. Wanataka Kuwaangamiza Hao Wa Darfur Kusudi Wa Control Utajiri.
Darfur Ni Tajiri Sana Kwa Mafuta Na Hata Climate Yake Ni Nzuri Sana. Hivyo Basi Kwa Kutumia Chinese Millitary Machines Wanawaua Raia Na Ku Wabaka Wanawake Na Mara Nyingi Wanatumia Ku Wa Starve Civilians As A Weapons.
Hapa Hawa Wachina Ni Responsible Kwa Kila Genocide Inayofanyika Huko Darfur.
Naunga Mkono Bashir Ashikwe Na Akajibu Mashitaka.
Sio Bashiri Peke Yake Hata Mgabe Nae Lazima Aende Huko Icc

No!

Waarabu Hao Ndio Waislam Na Weusi WA DARFUR Ni Wakristo...

Janjaweed Ni Waislam Waaarabu Na Si Waislam Weusi!

Hata Waislam Weusi Nao Pia Wanabaguliwa na Muislam MWARABU Kama Ilivyo Kwa Wakristo Weusi Wanavyobaguliwa Na WAKRISTO Wazungu!

Na Ndio Maana Nilishangazwa Sana Na Wazungu hao Kushupalia Zimbabwe Na Kuacha Darfur!

NB:HATA HAO WANAOJIITA WAARABU HUKO SUDAN WANA NGOZI NYEUSI TU KAMA NDUGU ZETU WA HAPO ZENJI...

ILA WANAJIITA WAARABU KAMA ILIVYO KWA NDUGU ZETU WA HAPO ZANZIBAR AMBAO WANATUDHARAU SISI WEUSI NA HUKU NA WAO NI WEUSI ILA WANASEMA WAO NI WAARABU!

SASA HAPO SIJUI VIPI!

NI WATUMWA WA MWARABU NA MUISLAM!

 

[Sam GM]

Mambo muhimu Jk na Membe wake wanakaa kimya ambayo hayana mpango ndio wanalipuka nayo!

 

[Jamco_Za]

Ulimwengu hauna huruma na watu wa kawaida kazi kuwatetea viongozi tu, watu wanavyokufa walitakiwa wawe wamechukua hatua mapema zaid kuliko kusubiri mpaka leo, kwani tayari kuna ushaidi wa kutosha kuwa janjaweed wanafadhiriwa na serikali ya sudan.

 

[LeoKweli]

unaonaje JK anang'ata na kupulizi sio.

bush na gadaffi anajaliu kuwaweka sawa sio?

 

[jmushi1]

unaonaje JK anang'ata na kupulizi sio.

bush na gadaffi anajaliu kuwaweka sawa sio?

Sasa kama Kikwete hang'ati na kupuliza...Then ni kwanini HUSHUGHULIKII UFISADI?

AMA sasa kwasababu unajifananisha na rais wa marekani...Ungekuwa unajuwa historia usingefanya hivyo!

Kwani hujuwi Marekani ina histora ya mamia ya miaka toka ipate uhuru?

Unajilinganisha naye na wakati nchi hii haina zaidi ya miaka 50 tangia ipate UHURU?

Unajuwa ni vizazi vingapi vimeshapita mara baada ya UHURU WA USA?

Na hapo mnapokosa kuijuwa historia ya Dunia mnaharibu kwani kuwaiga wamarekani kwa kila kitu ni sawa na kujaza maji kwenye gunia ama kuyatwanga kinuni!

Kwa maana kuwa huwezi ku apply sytem yao ya UBEPARI to the FULLEST KWANI KUNA STAGES MUHIMU AMBAZO TAIFA LAO LILIZIPITIA NA SISI HATUKUFANYA HIVYO!

Na kutokana na hayo...Ni sawa na kumlazimisha mtoto ambaye hata kusimama hawezi na wewe kumtaka aanze kukimbia!

TANZANIA NI KAMA MTOTO ANAYEJARIBU KUSIMAMA AMA HATA KUTAMBAA NA SYSTEM YA MATAIFA YALIYOENDELEA HUWEZI KUI APPLY MOJA KWA MOJA KWENYE MATAIFA YANAOTAKA KUENDELEA KWANI KUNA STAGES.

BUSARA HAKUNA KWA VIONGOZI WETU NA KILA NIKIFIKIRIA KUHUSU UONGOZI WETU BASI MACHOZI UNILENGA LENGA..Kwani UFAHAMU WAO NI MDOGO KIASI CHA KUTISHA SANA!

Hasa hasa ukiangalia maamuzi yao na mikataba yote!

Siajukuelewa hapo kwenye kumtaja Gaddafi na Bush na kuwalinganisha kama vile wana agenda moja...Tafadhali kuwa specific...

However...Bado Tanzania huwezi kuifananisha na Libya kwani hata wao mafuta na utajiri wao unawanufaisha!

JK ANGALIA TAIFA LAKO NA HAYO MAMBO YA KIMATAIFA TAFUTA WATU WENYE UPEO WAKUPE USHAURI MAANA NI VITUKO TU!

NB:Historia ya nchi za kibepari ni TOFAUTI SANA NA HISTORIA YETU YA TAIFA CHANGA!
Kwahiyo ni muhimu sana kuzingatia kuwa...Hatuwezi kusema tunajiingiza moja kwa moja kwenye UBEPARI BILA KUCHUKUWA TAHADHARI KAMA VILE KUWAANDAA WANANCHI KWENYE USHINDANI WA KIBIASHARA...NA SI KUWALETEA WAGENI LUKUKI NA KUSEMA WATAWAFUNDISHA BIASHRA...SANA SANA WATABAKIA KUWA OMBA OMBA...!

KWANI WAO WENZETU WAKO MBELE SANA NA WAMESHAJIKITA NA HIVYO SISI NI LAZIMA TUTOE MSISITIZO KWENYE KUWAANDAA WANANCHI NA MAZINGIRA YAO...PIA KUHAKIKISHA KUWA WANAHUSIKA MOJA KWA MOJA NA KUSHIRIKI KIKAMILIFU KWENYE KILA HATUA!

Maana kwenye issue ya Globalization...Sisi kutaka kushindana na mataifa hayo ni sawa na kutaka kupigana huku UMEFUNGWA MIKONO YOTE NYUMA!

 

[emedichi]

Walichemsha kwenye Zimbabwe sasa wana hamia Darfur!

Hao wanaouwawa huko Darfur ni NGOZI NYEUSI WAKRISTO!

Na Janjaweed ni WAARABU TU KAMA ROSTAMA na Omar Al Bashir mwenyewe!

Chunga sana JK kwani inaonyesha unamsikiliza sana Rostam na bado unafanya hivyo...Kwani msimamo huu si wa Tanzania bali wako wewe na Rostam na waarabu wengine!


Wewe J Mushi naona hapa unafanya assumption ambazo haziko ufanya tatizo la darfur liwe la kidini. NI kwamba Darfur conflict is both inter religious and intrareligious, inter regional and intra regional, inter racial and intra racial, inter ethnic and intra ethnic. Tatizo kubwa Darfur ni kwamba huwezi kuidentify clear Actors. Serikali ambayo inataka iwe kinara katika mediation ni sehemu ya mgogoro wenyewe.

Umesema Darfur, wana kaa wakristu. Huu ni uongo mkubwa. Darfur is moslem dominant area. Tena wale waislamu haswa. Ni kweli wengi wa Janjaweed wana asili ya kiarabu lakini pia si wote. Mzizi wa mgogoro wa Darfur ni ardhi hasa ukame. Hii inaweza kutokea hata kwetu Tanzania. Tunamkoromea Bashir lakini uharibifu wa mazingira unaweza sababisha sehemu nyingi Tanzania zikawa Darfur pia. Kinachotokea sehemu mbalimbali zenye migodi, Mwanza, Shinyanga nk. Maeneo yanayozunguka mlima Kilimanjaro na sehemu nyingine Tanzania, ni kama tunaandaa Darfur taratibu tu. Inabidi tujifunze kutoka sudan na sio kukoroma tu kana kwamba sisi ndio tumestaarabika sana.

J Mushi unachanganya Sudan kusini na Dar fur. Mgogoro kati ya Kaskazini mwa Sudan na kusini ni zaidi kati ya waislamu na wakristu. Sasa hivi Sudan imezungukwa na migogoro mingi na tusiangalie tu Darfur in Isolation. Mgogoro kati ya serikali ya sudan na sudan kusini bado uko hati hati. Mashariki mwa sudan ambapo ndipo makampuni mengi zaidi ya kichina na kihindi yanachimba mafuta kuna mgogoro mwingine umeibuka hivi karibuni. Darfur kwa upande wa magharibi Chad kuna mgogoro ambao hapo mwanzoni ulikua unaleta wakimbizi sehemu za Darfur. Hii inaweza pia kuwa imesababisha land pressure.

So ni kwamba bado hata Bashir akipelekwa mahakama gani, haitakua tatizo lan kudumu Darfur wala Sudan. Tukumbuke kuwa Kartoum sasa hivi inangara kwa uchumi Afrika. Inakua kama ndio Dubai ya Afrika. Ni katika kipindi Cha Bashir wafanyabiashara wengi wameweza kunufaika Sudan. Matajiri wengi wakubwa Afrika wanatoka Sudan. So si kwamba Bashir anachukiwa na watu wote Sudan. Infact wanaomchukia ni wachache kuliko wanaompenda. Ninaishi na wasudan wengi mchanganyiko toka sehemu tofauti Sudan. Wengi wanakubali kuwa yuko responsible kwa kiasi fulani katika mgogoro wa Darfur lakini bado wanaamini he is among the best president they ever had, hasa kwa maswala ya uchumi. Bashir kama Mugabe ametangazwa mwaka huu na taasisi moja ya utafiti kuwa worst dictator in the world. Yeye kama Mugabe amekua mtu aliyeonesha wazi wazi chuki yake kwa nchi za Magharibi. Kwa standard za Magharibi Bashir hafai kuwa Rais. lakini hali halisi Sudan iko hatihati sana. Bashir may be not the right person, but does current social and political environment allow flourishing of liberal democracy. Nasema haya kwa sababu Somalia mwaka 1991 ilikua hivihivi. Barhe alipinduliwa lakini nini kilifuata. Damu tupu kwa miaka zaidi ya 15, bila serikali.

 

[emedichi]

oh no!! kwanini asimwambie Bashir I suspend janjaweed, rape, killings and dislocation of people ili wasort matatizo kwanza? Inakuwaje URT ikimbilie kutoa tamko kuhusu Bashir lakini kwa muda mrefu sasa haijapinga kile kinachofanyika kule Darfur kwa wazi na kutoa shinikizo kwa Bashir?

MJJ INAELEKEA HUU MGOGORO HUJAUFUATILIA VIZURI. Ni kwamba Bashir alishashinikizwa na umoja wa mataifa asitishe mauaji darfur. Kuna resolution 1706 ya baraza la usalama ambalo lilizitaka nchi ntyingine kuweka vizuizi vya kibiashara Sudan ili Bashir aridhie. Lakini hili limekua resolution bubu lisilo na meno. Kwanza kati ya wanachama 15 wa baraza la usalama Urusi, China na Quatar walikataa kusign.

1) Urusi kwa sababu ndio wanaouzia Sudan Silaha. Waikisign watapata hasara kibiashara.

2) China ni nchi yenye makampuni mengi zaidi Sudan. Tangu mwaka 2005 Bashir alipotembelea China kila mwaka kuna kiongozi wa juu Sudan huenda China kwa majadiliano namna ya kuboresha biashara. China inahitaji mafuta ya Sudan hivyo haingeweza kusign hii resolution

3) Quatar ni sababu hizo hizo

China hawataki amani Sudan hata kidogo. Kwa nini? Kabla ya miaka ya 1980 Sudan kulikua na makampuni mengi ya nchi za magharibi ikiwemo Shell, BP nk. Baada ya machafuko ya kisiasa yalianza kuondoka. China walichukua hii nafasi kuanza kuinvest Sudan kwa fujo. Tukumbuke kila sehemu wachina walioinvest zaidi Afrika kuna mgogoro. Nigeria, Angola, Afrika ya Kati, Congo Brazaville, Sierra Leone nk.

Darfur kukiwa na amani ina maana makampuni ya magharibi, ambayo huenda sambamba na sera za magharibi yataanza kuivamia Sudan kwa fujo. Hii ina maana kutakua na ushindani kwa makampuni ya China, na faida wanayopata itapungua.

Kama Bashir ana hatia na wapambe wake China, India, Urusi nk nao washtakiwe.

 

[WildCard]

Darfur inataka iwe NCHI. Hilo ndio tatizo hasa baada ya kuona akina Salvar Kirr wana ka-nchi kao huku kusini ya Sudan. Mnataka Sudan iwe vipandevipande?

 

[Chuma]

Edimichi naona umemfahamisha vyema JMushi na Mwanakjj wavamiaji wasiojua nini kinaendelea sudan.

Lkn pia nataka nikuweka sawa juu ya Statement moja hapo juu kuwa china hawataki Aman hata kidogo hapo sudan...Kimsingi West wanataka mafuta yaliyopo Sudan wapewe wao, kama ilivyo Middle East, Sudan wamewapa tender wachina...na West wameapa kuisambaratisha sudan kwa Hili...

Jmushi na Mwanakjj, jueni ya kuwa west si wapenda Aman, wao ni wezi wa mali zilizopo popote zilipo, wapo tayari kununua Vita at any cost, ili wapate malighafi za Nchi Husika.Vita vinavyoendelea sasa sehem kubwa ktk Ulimwengu ni kutaka sehem ya uchumi husika uwe mikononi mwao.

Back to ICC, I accept na Msimamo wa JK thru Membe 100%, ICC wenyewe sio official NGO ya UN. ni Genge Fulani tu. US na baadhi ya nchi hawajasign treaty yoyote ya ICC. West wanapressurize ICC itake over, msimamo wa AU ni mzuri si wa kuyumbishwa kila mara na West. ICC haijawachukulia wanaoendesha vita Iraq wala Afghanstan...Bush na wenzake.

 

[jmushi1]

[FONT=Verdana,Helvetica,Sans-serif]He is President of the Republic of the Sudan and led an Islamic fundamentalist revolution in the Sudan which created an Islamic state. Bashir knew and respected bin Laden when he lived in the Sudan, but eventually asked bin Laden to leave because of US and Saudi pressure. Bashir has called for an international investigation into the US strike against the Sudan pharmaceutical plant. [/FONT]

What was Osama bin Laden doing in the Sudan?

... [He] was on business in Sudan. And he was responsible for one of the big projects in Sudan, which is the, the highway which leaves Khartoum northward towards [Atbara] City. ...

When did you become aware that he might be a problem for you?
In fact, during the attacks against Sudan and accusations towards Sudan of harboring terrorism, Osama bin Laden's name has popped up as one of the names that was targeted by those who were linking Sudan to terrorism.

This was six or seven years ago?
About three to four years ago.

And this was the US government talking to you about him?
Mostly by the United States and Egypt.

And they were saying that he was sponsoring assassinations or terrorist acts or what was he doing? Osama was know to be in Afghanistan before [as] the leader of the group of Arabs who were in Afghanistan and who were financed and trained by the United States. After he came to Sudan, most of those who were linked to him from Afghanistan, they came and settled with him in Sudan. Some of them worked with him in his projects here in Sudan. ...

Most of the Arab youth [who] went there to Afghanistan ... were encouraged by their own respective government. Most of these governments thought that these individuals, after their victory in Afghanistan, they had [a] spirit of being more fundamentalist, and they thought that they were looking forward to establish a fundamentalist or radical Islamic government in their own respective countries. Their presence was unwanted in their own respective countries. It happened at that time Sudan was open to all Arabs. They didn't need a visa to enter Sudan. As well as the Islamic Sheik of the government in Sudan [had] encouraged them to come to Sudan and enter and settle here.

So they were heroes as long as they were fighting somewhere else but they were unwanted then at home.
Of course they were unwanted in their own countries. Their presence in Khartoum has its own merits and reasons, but this, of course, did not give them the license to work here from Khartoum to destabilize their own countries or government. They didn't have a license to do that. ...

But a number of the people who have been charged in the United States, Osama bin Laden, Wadih El Hage, and two others who lived here and worked here in Khartoum--they have been charged in the Nairobi bombing. It would seem that they were doing or planning or inclined to do these things.

... What we are sure about is that when they were in Sudan, they were not conducting any activity like that. Actually when we are asked, asked to send [Osama bin Laden] outside the country by the Saudis and others, we told them that it would be better to keep Osama bin Laden in Khartoum because here it is not [worried that he is going] to conduct any activity. He is busy with his own business. We can keep an eye on him ... .

But didn't the United States tell you that we had evidence in the United States that he was involved in acts in Yemen, that he was possibly linked to the bombings in Riyadh? That he was doing things.
All these accusations after he left Khartoum, because the bombing of Riyadh, everything, after he already left Sudan. Even the bombing of Riyadh.

Well, Riyadh was in '95.
'96, '96. We are sure that all this is after he left. Before that he didn't have any activity. Only when there was some tension between ... Sudan and Saudi Arabia. He just started doing some political leaflets against the government in Saudi Arabia. This is the only activity he conducted from inside Sudan. After that we had some contacts with the Saudi government. Even those what we called paper activity has been stopped after that agreement with the Saudis, before we sent him out of the country.

But, you know, in 1993 when the United States added you and Sudan to the terrorism list, the allegation is in the official statement that you provided a home base for all of these terrorist organizations. For bin Laden, for Hezbollah, for Hamas, because that is what you did. You helped them all, giving them a home.
As I said, we had what they called the Afghan Arabs who were staying in Sudan. This has brought all this problems. But when we speak about parties like Hamas or Hezbollah, we don't deny that we had a relation with them. But all these parties, they don't need to stay in Sudan. For example, Hezbollah is a legitimate party in Lebanon. Is part of the parliament, is working there, its activities [are] in the southern part of Lebanon and they don't need the safe haven in Sudan.

So you are not the place where everyone conspires to kill Americans?
We don't have any interest to make enemies with America or kill Americans. On the contrary, we would like to have good relations and would like to bring Americans to work with us in Sudan. ...

Help me understand or help us in the United States understand. You met with Osama bin Laden?
Yes. ...

What kind of person is he?
He is a very normal person and he is very religious. He believes in Islam and he believes in changing the state and the political Islam. The period that he spent in Afghanistan might have affected his personality to believe that he could change ... politically by military means.

And he had some of his fellow veterans here in Khartoum with him?
Most of those were, or all of those were around him here. They were mainly working with him on his own projects and they didn't have any other activity other than those business projects that he was doing in Sudan. ...

But you see, at the same time in the United States, they are investigating the bombing of the World Trade Center and when they are investigating that bombing, they find money flowing from Osama bin Laden to some of the people who were involved in that bombing. And now they find many of those people they have charged in the Nairobi bombing. So from our perspective, it looks like he was here involved with people in the United States who were involved in terrorist acts and then he leaves, but then he and his friends do more. ... I guess I am asking, I am asking you if you can help us understand how they went from Afghanistan to here to apparently being involved in various terrorist acts either in the United States or in Kenya in Dar es Salaam?
Of course I don't have relationship with him to tell you exactly how he acts, but what I know that when he was in Sudan, he didn't have any activity.

The reason I am asking is that the United States then says ... you are involved. You are providing aid and support.
Of course the legal principle that the accused is innocent until you prove otherwise. I don't think the American and the US administration is working with this principle. In other countries the accused is convicted, unless otherwise he proves that he is not guilty.

And is that what happened to you when the cruise missile showed up in Khartoum?
We are very sure of ourselves to the extent that which made us be astonished that how come a big power like the United States came not to know that this factory is only a pharmaceutical factory. This has led us to think that we believe that they know that this plant is innocent. They know that this does not produce any chemical weapons. And it was just bombed for other political reasons. ...

But you know, you do sit and you tell us he wasn't involved in any terrorist acts or planning while he was here in the Sudan. ... You tell us that you have no knowledge of him or his associates since then, and then we go to the US government and they say he was involved while he was here in Yemen. He was involved, they say, in Riyadh. He involved in sending money to people like Ramzi Yousef, who was involved in the World Trade Center bombing. This is what the US government says. And the US government says, in documents, I don't know if you have seen them, that are put out by the US Congress, say that you were involved with Iraq in chemical warfare. So it is almost like, to you, the sun is shining and to the US government, it is dark and evil.
We are in the conviction that the United States knows that this information is false and all this informations are fabricated and the sources of this information, also they need to fabricate this information. The sources are Egypt, ... Uganda ... . All of them they have their own problems with Sudan. They are in need of the United States. They find it the easiest way to beat the Sudan and give false information. ...

You say when Osama bin Laden was here he was not involved in any terrorist activities. You kept a close watch on him.
Yes.

Today, in the United States, in court there is a document that says that one of his people, Mahmoud Salim, was here in Khartoum, that he was involved in obtaining explosives, weapons production, that he was involved in getting communications equipment for your intelligence services, working with them.
First of all, all our information confirmed that all the accusations against the Mahmoud Salim are false accusations. I think that the American administration has failed to track the perpetrators of the operation of Dar es Salaam and Nairobi. And we think that they tried to convince their own citizens that they are doing something, but they did not hit the real thing about all this matter. We know that Salim used to work with Osama bin Laden but we know that he left Osama bin Laden a long time ago. It doesn't mean that anybody who knew Osama bin Laden, worked with him a certain time, that ... he is involved in anything that Osama bin Laden does. ... Until now we didn't have any information that links anybody related to Osama bin Laden doing anything from inside Sudan. And we do not want to defend Osama bin Laden, but even we believe that there is nothing concrete until now against Osama bin Laden. ...

Okay. Let me change the subject. The other area that is mentioned in the State Department is the attempted assassination of Mubarak by Egyptian radicals and that some or one fled to the Sudan and that your security service got involved in this.
From the first day that we got the information that one of these people entered Sudan, we checked our records at the airport and we made sure that this man really entered Sudan.

And did he enter Sudan?
He probably entered Sudan.

We found records that he entered Sudan through the airport after the attempt. But after that you could not trace him. ... Someone would say Mubarak is not one of your favorite presidents.
We don't deny that we used to have problems with President Mubarak but it is known that we, as Sudanese, we have never been involved in such acts of assassination in Sudan. We don't have this history, even in our own oppositions, we didn't have this history of assassinations. We don't think that assassinating President Mubarak will solve any problem. ...

The New York Times reported that in February of 1997 that you sent President Clinton a personal letter to allow US intelligence and counter-terrorism people to come here to the Sudan, to have access to anything they wanted, to stop terrorism.
That is true. I have sent a letter like this to President Clinton, until this moment we did not get any response to that.

You have ambassadors in the United States. Have they asked? It is our ambassador who took the letter and handed it there and tried to follow-up the matter with the White House ... . But nothing came and it was turned down.

See the difficulty for us is that if we listen to you, then everything the US government is putting out, this information, is false. We assure you that all of it is false. And we are ready for any kind of investigation or fact finding, and we already asked for fact finding about Al Shifa. Even now we are ready to receive any group from the American intelligence to work on these matters ... . As I said ... I wrote to President Clinton asking for cooperation. That means we were ready to accept any team from the FBI or CIA or whatever to come here and work with out people and investigate. But they refused. That means they were not interested in the truth, in the facts. They were interested in passing their own false accusations. If they were interested in the truth they would have sent people to come and investigate. ...

 

[BAK]

Mimi nashangaa sana hawa viongozi wa Afrika akiwemo JK kumtetea huyu muaji aliyeua maelfu ya watu wasiokuwa na hatia yeyote eti ICC wasimfungulie mashtaka dhidi ya crime against humanity.

 

[jmushi1]

Ukiisoma kwa makini hii habari hapo juu..Utagunduwa kuwa hao The so called Afghan Arabs ndio hao JANJAWEED!

 

[The Truth]

Every crisis in the African continent can only be solved by outsiders, specifically the West. The Darfur crisis is no different. The solution to the Darfur crisis will not come from the Sudanese government nor from the African Union. The solution will come from the West. Perhaps this indictment of President Bashir is the first step towards that solution, I don't know. But one thing I know for sure is Africans can not solve and are incapable of solving this Darfur crisis. As my good European friend used to say, Africa is a White man's burden. Oh, how true those words were and still are today.

 

[jmushi1]

Hapo....Bashir alipoulizwa kama alishawahi kukutana na Bin Laden!
Sasa tukisema hao JANJAWEED NI HAO MAVETERAN WA AFGHAN AMBAO KINA MEMBE WANAUTETEA WATABISHA?

Help me understand or help us in the United States understand. You met with Osama bin Laden?

Yes. ...

What kind of person is he?

He is a very normal person and he is very religious.

He believes in Islam and he believes in changing the state and the political Islam.

The period that he spent in Afghanistan might have affected his personality to believe that he could change ... politically by military means.

And he had some of his fellow veterans here in Khartoum with him?

Most of those were, or all of those were around him here.

They were mainly working with him on his own projects and they didn't have any other activity other than those business projects that he was doing in Sudan

 

[jmushi1]

Na hapa ndiyo balaa LENYEWE...SASA KAMA MAMBO NI HAYO..USIJE SHANGAA BIN LADEN ANA HISA NA SIRIKALI YETU!

But you see, at the same time in the United States, they are investigating the bombing of the World Trade Center and when they are investigating that bombing, they find money flowing from Osama bin Laden to some of the people who were involved in that bombing. And now they find many of those people they have charged in the Nairobi bombing. So from our perspective, it looks like he was here involved with people in the United States who were involved in terrorist acts and then he leaves, but then he and his friends do more. ... I guess I am asking, I am asking you if you can help us understand how they went from Afghanistan to here to apparently being involved in various terrorist acts either in the United States or in Kenya in Dar es Salaam?

 

[akilimtindi]

[FONT=Verdana,Helvetica,Sans-serif]He is President of the Republic of the Sudan and led an Islamic fundamentalist revolution in the Sudan which created an Islamic state. Bashir knew and respected bin Laden when he lived in the Sudan, but eventually asked bin Laden to leave because of US and Saudi pressure. Bashir has called for an international investigation into the US strike against the Sudan pharmaceutical plant. [/FONT]

What was Osama bin Laden doing in the Sudan?

... [He] was on business in Sudan. And he was responsible for one of the big projects in Sudan, which is the, the highway which leaves Khartoum northward towards [Atbara] City. ...

When did you become aware that he might be a problem for you?
In fact, during the attacks against Sudan and accusations towards Sudan of harboring terrorism, Osama bin Laden's name has popped up as one of the names that was targeted by those who were linking Sudan to terrorism.

This was six or seven years ago?
About three to four years ago.

And this was the US government talking to you about him?
Mostly by the United States and Egypt.

And they were saying that he was sponsoring assassinations or terrorist acts or what was he doing? Osama was know to be in Afghanistan before [as] the leader of the group of Arabs who were in Afghanistan and who were financed and trained by the United States. After he came to Sudan, most of those who were linked to him from Afghanistan, they came and settled with him in Sudan. Some of them worked with him in his projects here in Sudan. ...

Most of the Arab youth [who] went there to Afghanistan ... were encouraged by their own respective government. Most of these governments thought that these individuals, after their victory in Afghanistan, they had [a] spirit of being more fundamentalist, and they thought that they were looking forward to establish a fundamentalist or radical Islamic government in their own respective countries. Their presence was unwanted in their own respective countries. It happened at that time Sudan was open to all Arabs. They didn't need a visa to enter Sudan. As well as the Islamic Sheik of the government in Sudan [had] encouraged them to come to Sudan and enter and settle here.

So they were heroes as long as they were fighting somewhere else but they were unwanted then at home.
Of course they were unwanted in their own countries. Their presence in Khartoum has its own merits and reasons, but this, of course, did not give them the license to work here from Khartoum to destabilize their own countries or government. They didn't have a license to do that. ...

But a number of the people who have been charged in the United States, Osama bin Laden, Wadih El Hage, and two others who lived here and worked here in Khartoum--they have been charged in the Nairobi bombing. It would seem that they were doing or planning or inclined to do these things.
... What we are sure about is that when they were in Sudan, they were not conducting any activity like that. Actually when we are asked, asked to send [Osama bin Laden] outside the country by the Saudis and others, we told them that it would be better to keep Osama bin Laden in Khartoum because here it is not [worried that he is going] to conduct any activity. He is busy with his own business. We can keep an eye on him ... .

But didn't the United States tell you that we had evidence in the United States that he was involved in acts in Yemen, that he was possibly linked to the bombings in Riyadh? That he was doing things.
All these accusations after he left Khartoum, because the bombing of Riyadh, everything, after he already left Sudan. Even the bombing of Riyadh.

Well, Riyadh was in '95.
'96, '96. We are sure that all this is after he left. Before that he didn't have any activity. Only when there was some tension between ... Sudan and Saudi Arabia. He just started doing some political leaflets against the government in Saudi Arabia. This is the only activity he conducted from inside Sudan. After that we had some contacts with the Saudi government. Even those what we called paper activity has been stopped after that agreement with the Saudis, before we sent him out of the country.

But, you know, in 1993 when the United States added you and Sudan to the terrorism list, the allegation is in the official statement that you provided a home base for all of these terrorist organizations. For bin Laden, for Hezbollah, for Hamas, because that is what you did. You helped them all, giving them a home.
As I said, we had what they called the Afghan Arabs who were staying in Sudan. This has brought all this problems. But when we speak about parties like Hamas or Hezbollah, we don't deny that we had a relation with them. But all these parties, they don't need to stay in Sudan. For example, Hezbollah is a legitimate party in Lebanon. Is part of the parliament, is working there, its activities [are] in the southern part of Lebanon and they don't need the safe haven in Sudan.

So you are not the place where everyone conspires to kill Americans?
We don't have any interest to make enemies with America or kill Americans. On the contrary, we would like to have good relations and would like to bring Americans to work with us in Sudan. ...

Help me understand or help us in the United States understand. You met with Osama bin Laden?
Yes. ...

What kind of person is he?
He is a very normal person and he is very religious. He believes in Islam and he believes in changing the state and the political Islam. The period that he spent in Afghanistan might have affected his personality to believe that he could change ... politically by military means.

And he had some of his fellow veterans here in Khartoum with him?
Most of those were, or all of those were around him here. They were mainly working with him on his own projects and they didn't have any other activity other than those business projects that he was doing in Sudan. ...

But you see, at the same time in the United States, they are investigating the bombing of the World Trade Center and when they are investigating that bombing, they find money flowing from Osama bin Laden to some of the people who were involved in that bombing. And now they find many of those people they have charged in the Nairobi bombing. So from our perspective, it looks like he was here involved with people in the United States who were involved in terrorist acts and then he leaves, but then he and his friends do more. ... I guess I am asking, I am asking you if you can help us understand how they went from Afghanistan to here to apparently being involved in various terrorist acts either in the United States or in Kenya in Dar es Salaam?
Of course I don't have relationship with him to tell you exactly how he acts, but what I know that when he was in Sudan, he didn't have any activity.

The reason I am asking is that the United States then says ... you are involved. You are providing aid and support.
Of course the legal principle that the accused is innocent until you prove otherwise. I don't think the American and the US administration is working with this principle. In other countries the accused is convicted, unless otherwise he proves that he is not guilty.

And is that what happened to you when the cruise missile showed up in Khartoum?
We are very sure of ourselves to the extent that which made us be astonished that how come a big power like the United States came not to know that this factory is only a pharmaceutical factory. This has led us to think that we believe that they know that this plant is innocent. They know that this does not produce any chemical weapons. And it was just bombed for other political reasons. ...

But you know, you do sit and you tell us he wasn't involved in any terrorist acts or planning while he was here in the Sudan. ... You tell us that you have no knowledge of him or his associates since then, and then we go to the US government and they say he was involved while he was here in Yemen. He was involved, they say, in Riyadh. He involved in sending money to people like Ramzi Yousef, who was involved in the World Trade Center bombing. This is what the US government says. And the US government says, in documents, I don't know if you have seen them, that are put out by the US Congress, say that you were involved with Iraq in chemical warfare. So it is almost like, to you, the sun is shining and to the US government, it is dark and evil.
We are in the conviction that the United States knows that this information is false and all this informations are fabricated and the sources of this information, also they need to fabricate this information. The sources are Egypt, ... Uganda ... . All of them they have their own problems with Sudan. They are in need of the United States. They find it the easiest way to beat the Sudan and give false information. ...

You say when Osama bin Laden was here he was not involved in any terrorist activities. You kept a close watch on him.
Yes.

Today, in the United States, in court there is a document that says that one of his people, Mahmoud Salim, was here in Khartoum, that he was involved in obtaining explosives, weapons production, that he was involved in getting communications equipment for your intelligence services, working with them.
First of all, all our information confirmed that all the accusations against the Mahmoud Salim are false accusations. I think that the American administration has failed to track the perpetrators of the operation of Dar es Salaam and Nairobi. And we think that they tried to convince their own citizens that they are doing something, but they did not hit the real thing about all this matter. We know that Salim used to work with Osama bin Laden but we know that he left Osama bin Laden a long time ago. It doesn't mean that anybody who knew Osama bin Laden, worked with him a certain time, that ... he is involved in anything that Osama bin Laden does. ... Until now we didn't have any information that links anybody related to Osama bin Laden doing anything from inside Sudan. And we do not want to defend Osama bin Laden, but even we believe that there is nothing concrete until now against Osama bin Laden. ...

Okay. Let me change the subject. The other area that is mentioned in the State Department is the attempted assassination of Mubarak by Egyptian radicals and that some or one fled to the Sudan and that your security service got involved in this.
From the first day that we got the information that one of these people entered Sudan, we checked our records at the airport and we made sure that this man really entered Sudan.

And did he enter Sudan?
He probably entered Sudan.

We found records that he entered Sudan through the airport after the attempt. But after that you could not trace him. ... Someone would say Mubarak is not one of your favorite presidents.
We don't deny that we used to have problems with President Mubarak but it is known that we, as Sudanese, we have never been involved in such acts of assassination in Sudan. We don't have this history, even in our own oppositions, we didn't have this history of assassinations. We don't think that assassinating President Mubarak will solve any problem. ...

The New York Times reported that in February of 1997 that you sent President Clinton a personal letter to allow US intelligence and counter-terrorism people to come here to the Sudan, to have access to anything they wanted, to stop terrorism.
That is true. I have sent a letter like this to President Clinton, until this moment we did not get any response to that.

You have ambassadors in the United States. Have they asked? It is our ambassador who took the letter and handed it there and tried to follow-up the matter with the White House ... . But nothing came and it was turned down.

See the difficulty for us is that if we listen to you, then everything the US government is putting out, this information, is false. We assure you that all of it is false. And we are ready for any kind of investigation or fact finding, and we already asked for fact finding about Al Shifa. Even now we are ready to receive any group from the American intelligence to work on these matters ... . As I said ... I wrote to President Clinton asking for cooperation. That means we were ready to accept any team from the FBI or CIA or whatever to come here and work with out people and investigate. But they refused. That means they were not interested in the truth, in the facts. They were interested in passing their own false accusations. If they were interested in the truth they would have sent people to come and investigate. ...

Mkulu hapa panahitaji busara ya hali ya juu, lakini pia panahitaji uzoefu na ujuzi wa mambo maana inatakiwa uwe unaujua ukweli ili ukichukua uamuzi basi uwe tayari kwa matokeo.

 

[jmushi1]

DAR ES SALAAM, July 14 (Reuters) - Tanzania wants the International Criminal Court (ICC) to suspend any moves to arrest Sudan's President Omar Hassan al-Bashir for genocide in Darfur, the foreign affairs minister told Reuters on Monday.

"We would like ICC to suspend its decision to seek al-Bashir's arrest for a moment until we sort out the primary problems in Darfur and southern Sudan," Bernard Membe, Tanzania's Minister for Foreign Affairs said, speaking on behalf of African Union Chairman and Tanzanian President Jakaya Kikwete