"Rwanda: The Untold Story": questions for the BBC

[Kwetunikwetu]

kwanza elewa maana ya Genocide,siyo kukurupuka nakuchangia hoja zisizo za msingi.

Kama nilivyosema awali....pale penye hoja mnakimbia kwa sentensi nyepesi nyepesi.....ndio maana mara nyingi nachangia kidogo na kuondoka....!

Nimesema awali...appeal chamber ya ICTR imetoa ruling kuwa...genocide haikupangwa....sasa wewe na wale majaji nani mwenye ushahidi wa kutosha kutoa hiyo statement...?

 

[Kwetunikwetu]

jamaa kwetunikwetu kaja kwa nguvu ya soda,please acha kutuletea hizo link za wahuni wenzako,nakushauri kwanza ukae chini ufanye utafiti kuhusu rwanda na mahusiano yake na hayo mashirika halafu urudi jukwaani ili uweza kueleweka humu la sivyo wewe umeingia kiushabiki tu.

Kifupi sana knowledge yangu kuhusu Rwandan genocide imetokana na mambo yafuatayo;
1. Kusoma vitabu (pro-Tutsi and pro-hutu) tangu 1995 mpaka leo 2014. Name all the greater writers of Rwandan genocide you know, nina hiyo library at home
2. Kusoma early reports za genocide kutoka mashirika mbalimbali e.g. Human Rights Watch
3. Kusoma 'post-mortem' reports za genocide na specific incidences e.g. govt report like Mutsinzi, Mucyo, critics zao etc
4. First account ya wale walioshudia genocide i.e. hutu and tutsi at grassroot level (ingawa hii ni hatari sana Rwanda)
5. Expert discourse papers e.g. political, military etc
6. ICTR documents in public domains e.g. military trial I, military trial II, appeal chambers verdicts za akina Gratien, Ntabakuze, Bagosora, Nsengiyumva, Augustin Bizimungu etc
7. Indictments za Kagame na kagenge chake cha wahuni e.g. Spanish, France etc
8. Documentaries e.g. Aljazeera, BBC, Role of US, role of France etc
7. Dissidents account on role of RPF in genocide e.g. Sendashonga, Nyamwasa etc

Kwa hivyo unapozungumza na mimi kuhusu Rwandan genocide.....niko well informed more than an average person anayesikia tu abstract kwenye radio na television....!

 

[Talkandtalk]

Kama nilivyosema awali....pale penye hoja mnakimbia kwa sentensi nyepesi nyepesi.....ndio maana mara nyingi nachangia kidogo na kuondoka....!

Nimesema awali...appeal chamber ya ICTR imetoa ruling kuwa...genocide haikupangwa....sasa wewe na wale majaji nani mwenye ushahidi wa kutosha kutoa hiyo statement...?

Unaweza kutupatia link please na ilikuwa kesi gani ICTR ilipotoa hiyo ruling.
Una uhakika waunacho kisema, au umeingia kiushabiki kama mwenzangu alivyokwambia.

 

[Kwetunikwetu]

Unaweza kutupatia link please na ilikuwa kesi gani ICTR ilipotoa hiyo ruling.
Una uhakika waunacho kisema, au umeingia kiushabiki kama mwenzangu alivyokwambia.

Prosecutor vs Bagosora, verdict dated 12/11/2011.......hii sasa ni public knowledge sio kificho. Na wewe usisubiri vya kuambiwa tu, tafuta information

 

[Koba]

Kifupi sana knowledge yangu kuhusu Rwandan genocide imetokana na mambo yafuatayo;
1. Kusoma vitabu (pro-Tutsi and pro-hutu) tangu 1995 mpaka leo 2014. Name all the greater writers of Rwandan genocide you know, nina hiyo library at home
2. Kusoma early reports za genocide kutoka mashirika mbalimbali e.g. Human Rights Watch
3. Kusoma 'post-mortem' reports za genocide na specific incidences e.g. govt report like Mutsinzi, Mucyo, critics zao etc
4. First account ya wale walioshudia genocide i.e. hutu and tutsi at grassroot level (ingawa hii ni hatari sana Rwanda)
5. Expert discourse papers e.g. political, military etc
6. ICTR documents in public domains e.g. military trial I, military trial II, appeal chambers verdicts za akina Gratien, Ntabakuze, Bagosora, Nsengiyumva, Augustin Bizimungu etc
7. Indictments za Kagame na kagenge chake cha wahuni e.g. Spanish, France etc
8. Documentaries e.g. Aljazeera, BBC, Role of US, role of France etc
7. Dissidents account on role of RPF in genocide e.g. Sendashonga, Nyamwasa etc

Kwa hivyo unapozungumza na mimi kuhusu Rwandan genocide.....niko well informed more than an average person anayesikia tu abstract kwenye radio na television....!

Hizo talking point zako unazookota from genocidal denials and revisionist wenzako peleka kwa wapuuzi wenzako na ulivyo na akili mbovu unatuambia Bagosora na genge lake ambao wengi wamepigwa life in prison eti hawakupanga genocide lazima utakuwa mwehu wewe,ni useless debating ------ kama wewe...dawa yenu moja tuu kuwafanyizia kama NAZI wanavyofanyiwa mpaka leo even after almost 80yrs

 

[Talkandtalk]

Prosecutor vs Bagosora, verdict dated 12/11/2011.......hii sasa ni public knowledge sio kificho. Na wewe usisubiri vya kuambiwa tu, tafuta information

Ok, kweli sio vizuri kusubiri vyakuambiwa lakini inaelekea between you and me kuna mmoja ndiye ana subiri vyakuambiwa, chini nime copy hiyo verdict unaweza ku outline sehemu wanaposema Genocide haikupangwa??.
Hivi una jua maana ya kusema Genocide haikupangwa, manake ni kwamba kama haikupangwa then it is not a Genocide!!
Kumbuka UN imehalarisha uwepo wa Genocide in Rwanda, and this came after Bagosora ruling:
Bagosora ruling is for Bagosora as an individual:




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[TD="width: 473"]Appeals Chamber Delivers Judgement in the Bagosora and Nsengiyumva Case[/TD]
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[TD="width: 473"]ICTR/INFO-9-2-695.EN[/TD]
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[TD="width: 473"]Dec 14, 2011[/TD]
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The Appeals Chamber of the International Criminal Tribunal for Rwanda, composed of Judge Theodor Meron, presiding, Judge Patrick Robinson, Judge Mehmet Güney, Judge Fausto Pocar, and Judge Liu Daqun, today delivered its judgement on the appeals lodged by Théoneste Bagosora and Anatole Nsengiyumva, reversing a number of their convictions and reducing their life sentences to 35 and 15 years of imprisonment, respectively.
On 18 December 2008, Trial Chamber I found Bagosora and Nsengiyumva guilty of genocide, crimes against humanity, and serious violations of Article 3 common to the Geneva Conventions and of Additional Protocol II for crimes committed in April and June 1994 in Kigali, Gisenyi, and Kibuye prefectures.
The Appeals Chamber affirmed Bagosora's convictions for genocide, crimes against humanity (murder, extermination, persecution, rape, and other inhumane acts), and serious violations of Article 3 common to the Geneva Conventions and of Additional Protocol II (violence to life and outrages upon personal dignity). However, it reversed Bagosora's convictions for the killings of Augustin Maharangari, Alphonse Kabiligi, and the peacekeepers murdered before his visit to Camp Kigali, as well as for the killings in Gisenyi town, at Mudende University, and at Nyundo Parish. The Appeals Chamber also set aside the finding that Bagosora was responsible for ordering crimes committed at Kigali area roadblocks, but found him liable as a superior instead. In addition, the Appeals Chamber reversed a number of Bagosora's convictions for murder as a crime against humanity and, Judge Pocar dissenting, for other inhumane acts as a crime against humanity for the defilement of Rwandan Prime Minister Uwilingiyimana's corpse. The Appeals Chamber, Judges Pocar and Liu dissenting, considered that the reversal of some of Bagosora's convictions called for a revision of his life sentence, and entered a new sentence of 35 years of imprisonment.
The Appeals Chamber reversed Nsengiyumva's convictions for the killing of Alphonse Kabiligi, as well as for the killings at Mudende University, Nyundo Parish, and Bisesero. It also reversed Nsengiyumva's convictions for murder as a crime against humanity. In addition, the Appeals Chamber set aside the finding that Nsengiyumva was responsible for ordering the killings in Gisenyi town on 7 April 1994, but, Judges Meron and Robinson dissenting, found him liable as a superior instead. It thus affirmed Nsengiyumva's convictions for genocide, crimes against humanity (extermination and persecution), and serious violations of Article 3 common to the Geneva Conventions and of Additional Protocol II (violence to life) in relation to the Gisenyi town killings. The Appeals Chamber considered that the reversal of nearly all of Nsengiyumva's convictions called for a revision of his life sentence, and entered a new sentence of 15 years of imprisonment.
At the time of the relevant events, Bagosora was directeur de cabinet in the Rwandan Ministry of Defence. Bagosora was arrested in Cameroon on 9 March 1996. He is to remain in the United Nations Detention Facility in Arusha, Tanzania, pending his transfer to the country in which he will serve his sentence. He was defended by Counsel Raphael Constant (Martinique/France) and Allison Turner (Canada).
Nsengiyumva served as Commander of the Gisenyi Operational Sector. He was arrested in Cameroon on 27 March 1996. He was immediately released following the hearing today in light of time served. Counsel Kennedy Ogetto and Ottachi Bw'Omana from Kenya represented Nsengiyumva.
The Prosecution was initially led by Chile Eboe-Osuji but was transferred to Barbara Mulvaney whose team included Drew White, Christine Graham and Rashid Rashid.

Source:http://www.unictr.org/tabid/155/Default.aspx?ID=1248




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[Kwetunikwetu]

Hizo talking point zako unazookota from genocidal denials and revisionist wenzako peleka kwa wapuuzi wenzako na ulivyo na akili mbovu unatuambia Bagosora na genge lake ambao wengi wamepigwa life in prison eti hawakupanga genocide lazima utakuwa mwehu wewe,ni useless debating ------ kama wewe...dawa yenu moja tuu kuwafanyizia kama NAZI wanavyofanyiwa mpaka leo even after almost 80yrs

Unaona unavyofuka...? Give facts sio kukimbia hoja

 

[Kwetunikwetu]

Ok, kweli sio vizuri kusubiri vyakuambiwa lakini inaelekea between you and me kuna mmoja ndiye ana subiri vyakuambiwa, chini nime copy hiyo verdict unaweza ku outline sehemu wanaposema Genocide haikupangwa??.
Hivi una jua maana ya kusema Genocide haikupangwa, manake ni kwamba kama haikupangwa then it is not a Genocide!!
Kumbuka UN imehalarisha uwepo wa Genocide in Rwanda, and this came after Bagosora ruling:
Bagosora ruling is for Bagosora as an individual:




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[TD="width: 473"]Appeals Chamber Delivers Judgement in the Bagosora and Nsengiyumva Case[/TD]
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[/TR]
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[TD="width: 473"]ICTR/INFO-9-2-695.EN[/TD]
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[TD="width: 473"]Dec 14, 2011[/TD]
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[TD="width: 473"]
The Appeals Chamber of the International Criminal Tribunal for Rwanda, composed of Judge Theodor Meron, presiding, Judge Patrick Robinson, Judge Mehmet Güney, Judge Fausto Pocar, and Judge Liu Daqun, today delivered its judgement on the appeals lodged by Théoneste Bagosora and Anatole Nsengiyumva, reversing a number of their convictions and reducing their life sentences to 35 and 15 years of imprisonment, respectively.
On 18 December 2008, Trial Chamber I found Bagosora and Nsengiyumva guilty of genocide, crimes against humanity, and serious violations of Article 3 common to the Geneva Conventions and of Additional Protocol II for crimes committed in April and June 1994 in Kigali, Gisenyi, and Kibuye prefectures.
The Appeals Chamber affirmed Bagosora’s convictions for genocide, crimes against humanity (murder, extermination, persecution, rape, and other inhumane acts), and serious violations of Article 3 common to the Geneva Conventions and of Additional Protocol II (violence to life and outrages upon personal dignity). However, it reversed Bagosora’s convictions for the killings of Augustin Maharangari, Alphonse Kabiligi, and the peacekeepers murdered before his visit to Camp Kigali, as well as for the killings in Gisenyi town, at Mudende University, and at Nyundo Parish. The Appeals Chamber also set aside the finding that Bagosora was responsible for ordering crimes committed at Kigali area roadblocks, but found him liable as a superior instead. In addition, the Appeals Chamber reversed a number of Bagosora’s convictions for murder as a crime against humanity and, Judge Pocar dissenting, for other inhumane acts as a crime against humanity for the defilement of Rwandan Prime Minister Uwilingiyimana’s corpse. The Appeals Chamber, Judges Pocar and Liu dissenting, considered that the reversal of some of Bagosora’s convictions called for a revision of his life sentence, and entered a new sentence of 35 years of imprisonment.
The Appeals Chamber reversed Nsengiyumva’s convictions for the killing of Alphonse Kabiligi, as well as for the killings at Mudende University, Nyundo Parish, and Bisesero. It also reversed Nsengiyumva’s convictions for murder as a crime against humanity. In addition, the Appeals Chamber set aside the finding that Nsengiyumva was responsible for ordering the killings in Gisenyi town on 7 April 1994, but, Judges Meron and Robinson dissenting, found him liable as a superior instead. It thus affirmed Nsengiyumva’s convictions for genocide, crimes against humanity (extermination and persecution), and serious violations of Article 3 common to the Geneva Conventions and of Additional Protocol II (violence to life) in relation to the Gisenyi town killings. The Appeals Chamber considered that the reversal of nearly all of Nsengiyumva’s convictions called for a revision of his life sentence, and entered a new sentence of 15 years of imprisonment.
At the time of the relevant events, Bagosora was directeur de cabinet in the Rwandan Ministry of Defence. Bagosora was arrested in Cameroon on 9 March 1996. He is to remain in the United Nations Detention Facility in Arusha, Tanzania, pending his transfer to the country in which he will serve his sentence. He was defended by Counsel Raphael Constant (Martinique/France) and Allison Turner (Canada).
Nsengiyumva served as Commander of the Gisenyi Operational Sector. He was arrested in Cameroon on 27 March 1996. He was immediately released following the hearing today in light of time served. Counsel Kennedy Ogetto and Ottachi Bw’Omana from Kenya represented Nsengiyumva.
The Prosecution was initially led by Chile Eboe-Osuji but was transferred to Barbara Mulvaney whose team included Drew White, Christine Graham and Rashid Rashid.

Source:http://www.unictr.org/tabid/155/Default.aspx?ID=1248




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Mdanganye asiyejua....hata ukitukana ukweli uko pale pale.....Bagosora alipunguziwa kifungo toka kifungo cha maisha mpaka miaka 35 na Nsenginyumva for 15 years. Download verdict yote usome acha matusi na ujinga...!

Kama huwezi kusoma verdict yote na kuilewa basi soma hata wachambuzi walivyoichambua...! This is public knowledge ndio maana hata serikali ya Rwanda ilihamaki baada ya hii verdict..!

[h=2]Legally relevant facts[/h] Nsengiyumva submitted 15 grounds of appeal. Specifically, he alleged a violation of Article 22 of the Statute (para. 21), numerous errors of law and fact which violated his right to fair trial and caused prejudice to him (para. 27), errors relating to the Indictment (para. 91), the burden of proof and the assessment of evidence (para. 220), errors relating to the elements of criminal responsibility (para. 229), errors in law and in fact in convicting him for the killings in Gisenyi Town (para. 237), for the killing of Alphonse Kabiligi (para. 305), for the killings at Nyondo Parish (para. 333) and at Mudende University (para. 350), errors relating to the elements of the crimes (para. 379), errors concerning cumulative convictions (para. 410) and sentencing (para. 418).
Bagosora presented six grounds of appeal with numerous sub-grounds challenging his convictions and sentence. He alleged errors relating to his superior position and effective control (para. 433), violation of fair trial rights by failing to enforce subpoena (para. 529), errors in the assessment of circumstantial evidence (para. 548), in applying the law of superior responsibility (para. 637), errors relating to the roadblocks (para. 700), errors relating to the sexual violence against the Prime Minister (para. 723) and to cumulative convictions (para. 732). He further submitted that the sentence imposed on him should be reduced (para. 738).

ICD - Bagosora & Nsengiyumva - Asser Institute

 

[Kwetunikwetu]

"The UN Prosecutor has not shown Rwanda's ex-leaders conspired to commit genocide before their President was murdered on April 6, 1994"

Hayo ni maneno ya kufunga ya presiding judge kwenye appeal ya Bagosora

 

[Talkandtalk]

"The UN Prosecutor has not shown Rwanda's ex-leaders conspired to commit genocide before their President was murdered on April 6, 1994"

Hayo ni maneno ya kufunga ya presiding judge kwenye appeal ya Bagosora

Twende pole pole, sijatukana sehemu labda ume mquote mwingine angalia vizuri;
Naona umequote ruling ya Bagosora na Anatole Nsengiyumva:
Una maana Bagosora na Anatole kama hawakupanga Genocide, then in general Genocide haikupangwa?
The case was between Bagosora and Anatole vs the Presecution i.e the ruling was for Bagosora and Anatole.
Hii verdict ilikuwa inamuangalia Bagosora na mwenzake.
Are you trying to say that, kama Bagosora angekutwa hana hatia yoyote, then it would automatically mean hakukuwa na mauaji Rwanda?
Genocide planning is more than that verdict.

Unaposema ICTR imetoa ruling kwamba Genocide haikuwa planned YET KAMBANDA is serving life sentence for among other things GUILTY IN GENOCIDE PLANNING, do you see any sense in your statement??
Then confidently eti nasubiri ya kuambiwa, sasa nani anasubiri yakuambiwa mimi au wewe??.
Ndio maana mara nyingi wenzangu wanaishia ku wa ignore manake what you call facts are just uchafu mnaookota okota from different uncredible sources.
Na mara nyingi when you are biased from the start you will always search for the negative stories to support your thinking.

 

[Kwetunikwetu]

Twende pole pole, sijatukana sehemu labda ume mquote mwingine angalia vizuri;
Naona umequote ruling ya Bagosora na Anatole Nsengiyumva:
Una maana Bagosora na Anatole kama hawakupanga Genocide, then in general Genocide haikupangwa?
The case was between Bagosora and Anatole vs the Presecution i.e the ruling was for Bagosora and Anatole.
Hii verdict ilikuwa inamuangalia Bagosora na mwenzake.
Are you trying to say that, kama Bagosora angekutwa hana hatia yoyote, then it would automatically mean hakukuwa na mauaji Rwanda?
Genocide planning is more than that verdict.

Usiwe mbishi....kama kitu hujui kubali hujui huo ndio uungwana...! Uliza pro-tutsi anayejua kilichotokea kwenye hiyo verdict...hiyo ni public knowledge....! Ushahidi uliotumika kusema genocide ilipangwa ulijikita zaidi kwenye ile diary ya Bagosora kuwa kulikuwa na kikao kilichopanga genocide...! Judges wa appeal chamber walikataa hilo, na mengine ni kama ifuatavyo;
1. Kwamba genocide haikupangwa bali ilikuwa public chaos due to nurtured hatred generated over time. It was triggered by downing of Habyarimana plane
2. Local militia group....hiyo judges walisema ni common strategy in most of Africa countries, so one can not tell it was due to genocide planning
3. Propaganda radio ilikuwa ni mkakati katika kutekeleza genocide....judges walisema hiyo sio kweli kwa vile hata RPF walikuwa na radio yao....hivyo hizo propaganda radio sio kielelezo kuwa genocide ilipangwa....isipokuwa makosa ya kuhamasisha yanabaki kuwa ni makubwa

Sasa kama hujui hayo ndio yaliyojiri kwenye appeal chambers...! Angalia na kesi za wengine uone...!

 

[Kwetunikwetu]

Twende pole pole, sijatukana sehemu labda ume mquote mwingine angalia vizuri;
Naona umequote ruling ya Bagosora na Anatole Nsengiyumva:
Una maana Bagosora na Anatole kama hawakupanga Genocide, then in general Genocide haikupangwa?
The case was between Bagosora and Anatole vs the Presecution i.e the ruling was for Bagosora and Anatole.
Hii verdict ilikuwa inamuangalia Bagosora na mwenzake.
Are you trying to say that, kama Bagosora angekutwa hana hatia yoyote, then it would automatically mean hakukuwa na mauaji Rwanda?
Genocide planning is more than that verdict.

Unaposema ICTR imetoa ruling kwamba Genocide haikuwa planned YET KAMBANDA is serving life sentence for among other things GUILTY IN GENOCIDE PLANNING, do you see any sense in your statement??
Then confidently eti nasubiri ya kuambiwa, sasa nani anasubiri yakuambiwa mimi au wewe??.
Ndio maana mara nyingi wenzangu wanaishia ku wa ignore manake what you call facts are just uchafu mnaookota okota from different uncredible sources.
Na mara nyingi when you are biased from the start you will always search for the negative stories to support your thinking.

Kuhusu KAMBANDA......hiyo verdict ilitolewa siku nyingi na hakukata rufaaa.....hilo lazima uelewe....! Pili, waliokata rufaa wote angalia mwanzoni walifungwa maisha.....lakini kwenye appeals zao karibu wote vifungo vyao either vilipunguzwa au kuachiwa huru....! Fuatilia Military trial I kuhusu appeal za Kabiligi, Bizimungu, Bagosora na Ntabakuze. Pia akina Ndindiliyimana

 

[jMali]

Twende pole pole, sijatukana sehemu labda ume mquote mwingine angalia vizuri;
Naona umequote ruling ya Bagosora na Anatole Nsengiyumva:
Una maana Bagosora na Anatole kama hawakupanga Genocide, then in general Genocide haikupangwa?
The case was between Bagosora and Anatole vs the Presecution i.e the ruling was for Bagosora and Anatole.
Hii verdict ilikuwa inamuangalia Bagosora na mwenzake.
Are you trying to say that, kama Bagosora angekutwa hana hatia yoyote, then it would automatically mean hakukuwa na mauaji Rwanda?
Genocide planning is more than that verdict.

Unaposema ICTR imetoa ruling kwamba Genocide haikuwa planned YET KAMBANDA is serving life sentence for among other things GUILTY IN GENOCIDE PLANNING, do you see any sense in your statement??
Then confidently eti nasubiri ya kuambiwa, sasa nani anasubiri yakuambiwa mimi au wewe??.
Ndio maana mara nyingi wenzangu wanaishia ku wa ignore manake what you call facts are just uchafu mnaookota okota from different uncredible sources.
Na mara nyingi when you are biased from the start you will always search for the negative stories to support your thinking.

1. Assuming Kambanda is guilty, je inawezekana vipi genocide nzima kupangwa na mtu mmoja tu?
2. kesi nzima ya kambanda iko hapa: Rwandan Ex-Prime Minister Kambanda: Inside Story of His Court Case. | The Proxy Lake huhitaji kuwa mwanasheria kujua kuwa mchezo mchafu ulifanyika.

 

[murutongore]

Twende pole pole, sijatukana sehemu labda ume mquote mwingine angalia vizuri;
Naona umequote ruling ya Bagosora na Anatole Nsengiyumva:
Una maana Bagosora na Anatole kama hawakupanga Genocide, then in general Genocide haikupangwa?
The case was between Bagosora and Anatole vs the Presecution i.e the ruling was for Bagosora and Anatole.
Hii verdict ilikuwa inamuangalia Bagosora na mwenzake.
Are you trying to say that, kama Bagosora angekutwa hana hatia yoyote, then it would automatically mean hakukuwa na mauaji Rwanda?
Genocide planning is more than that verdict.

Unaposema ICTR imetoa ruling kwamba Genocide haikuwa planned YET KAMBANDA is serving life sentence for among other things GUILTY IN GENOCIDE PLANNING, do you see any sense in your statement??
Then confidently eti nasubiri ya kuambiwa, sasa nani anasubiri yakuambiwa mimi au wewe??.
Ndio maana mara nyingi wenzangu wanaishia ku wa ignore manake what you call facts are just uchafu mnaookota okota from different uncredible sources.
Na mara nyingi when you are biased from the start you will always search for the negative stories to support your thinking.

cc jMali

 

[Talkandtalk]

1. Assuming Kambanda is guilty, je inawezekana vipi genocide nzima kupangwa na mtu mmoja tu?
2. kesi nzima ya kambanda iko hapa: Rwandan Ex-Prime Minister Kambanda: Inside Story of His Court Case. | The Proxy Lake huhitaji kuwa mwanasheria kujua kuwa mchezo mchafu ulifanyika.

Its not assuming, but he was found guilty; and remember those taken to ICTR are those who participated in Genocide directly.
Genocide plannification took more than 100 days of Genocide even before those taken to Arusha held their posts.
UNAMIR ilitoa onyo kabla kuwa kuna maandalizi ya kuua wa Tusi, hii ilikuwa kabla ya kifo cha habyarimana.
The UN, Rwanda and the 'Genocide Fax' -- 20 Years LaterÂ-|Â-Simon Adams

Kikosi cha umoja wa mataifa kilichokuwepo Rwanda chini ya Gen.Dallaire walikuwa wanaona wazi what was going on:
Hii ni fax iliyotumwa na General Dallaire ikionyesha MPANGO uliokuwepo
http://www2.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB53/rw011194.pdf

Ukweli wa hukumu zinazotolewa na mahakama hutegemea vitu vingi, among them ni uwezo wa prosecution and defence.
Dunia ya leo ukiwa na wakili mzuri unaweza kushinda kesi hata kama una makosa, au kushindwa wakati huna makosa.
Issue ya threat to Kambanda any great thinker ataona kwamba huu ni upuuzi, serikali ya Rwanda ingekuwa na uwezo wa ku influence nadhani hata Bagosora angekubali, wangetumia mbinu ileile iliyotumiwa kwa Kambanda.

Just kukumbusha watu proxylake ni website ya extremists Hutus waishio uhamishoni,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCa4xWajE2w:A S check_03:

 

[murutongore]

Its not assuming, but he was found guilty; and remember those taken to ICTR are those who participated in moja kwa moja.
Genocide plannification took more than 100 days of Genocide even before those taken to Arusha held their posts.
UNAMIR ilitoa onyo kabla kuwa kuna maandalizi ya kuua wa Tusi, hii ilikuwa kabla ya kifo cha habyarimana.
The UN, Rwanda and the 'Genocide Fax' -- 20 Years LaterÂ-|Â-Simon Adams

Kikosi cha umoja wa mataifa kilichokuwepo Rwanda chini ya Gen.Dallaire walikuwa wanaona wazi what was going on:
Hii ni fax iliyotumwa na General Dallaire ikionyesha MPANGO uliokuwepo
http://www2.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB53/rw011194.pdf

Ukweli wa hukumu zinazotolewa na mahakama hutegemea vitu vingi, among them ni uwezo wa prosecution and defence.
Dunia ya leo ukiwa na wakili mzuri unaweza kushinda kesi hata kama una makosa, au kushindwa wakati huna makosa.
Issue ya threat to Kambanda any great thinker ataona kwamba huu ni upuuzi, serikali ya Rwanda ingekuwa na uwezo wa ku influence nadhani hata Bagosora angekubali, wangetumia mbinu ileile iliyotumiwa kwa Kambanda.

Just kukumbusha watu proxylake ni website ya extremists Hutus waishio uhamishoni,

Mkuu..sio kwamba jMali hajui who runs this interahamwe websites, huwa ana selective memory. Or maybe he is one of the founders..who knows

Hiyo fax ya Dallaire ndio inadhihirisha kuwa Genocide was planned by akina jMali na sasa hivi the bodies of those that he killed are back haunting his conscious

 

[Kwetunikwetu]

Mkuu..sio kwamba jMali hajui who runs this interahamwe websites, huwa ana selective memory. Or maybe he is one of the founders..who knows

Hiyo fax ya Dallaire ndio inadhihirisha kuwa Genocide was planned by akina jMali na sasa hivi the bodies of those that he killed are back haunting his conscious

Gen. Romeo amejaribu mara kadhaa kutaka kujiua kwa sababu ya msongo wa mawazo kutokana na mchango wake katika mauaji ya Rwanda...!

Soma kitabu chake vizuri 'Shaking the hands with Devil' utaona jinsi gani yeye mwenyewe anakiri kusaidia kampeni za RPF ikiwa ni pamoja na kusaidia wasaliti wa FAR aliowaita moderate hasa kutokea Butare na maeneo mengine ya kusini....!
Gen. Romeo yeye mwenyewe pia anakiri ni jinsi gani RPF revenge killings zilizokuwa zikifanywa na RPF...!

Pia anakiri mwenyewe tuhuma ambazo alikuwa akituhumiwa na FAR kuwa alitumia mwanya wa waangalizi wa kijeshi wa UNAMIR kukusanya intelligence information na kuzipitisha kwa RPF.....!

Pia Gen. Romeo ameenda mbali zaidi kukiri kuwa alikuwa 'fooled' na propaganda za RPF, kuwa si kweli walitaka peace solution but military victory kuchukua madaraka

Gen. Romeo huyo huyo anakiri kumhimiza Kagame kuongeza juhudi kuteka Kigali badala ya kudivert na kuelekea kusini ....anakiri kuwa Kagame alimjibu kuwa watutsi wanaokufanya sio jukumu lake kuhakikisha usalama wao...eti huo ndio mchango wao pia katika ukombozi.....! Then Kagame huyo anajitapa kuwa alienda kusimamisha mauji ya halaiki...!

Soma kitabu chote cha Gen. Romeo sio hio fax tu.....!

 

[mchambawima1]

Talkandtalk

Tofautisha mtazamo na fact. Mtazamo ni idea za mtu, so you are right, kata vipande vyote vya rudasingwa, nyamwasa etc: je kuna utata katika the following FACTS kutoka kwenye hiyo documentary?:

1. The prosecutor's office had evidence to indict kagame in 2002, but she was removed before doing that?
2. That in 1997, UN investigative team recommended the prosecutor of ICTR to arrest kagame?
3. That former US secretary of state Warren Christopher confirms that the white house received intel on RPF mass killings in 1994!

ndio kuna utata tena sana na mass killings unazoongeea wewe kama sikosei ni Kibeho na kambini Mugunga DRC si ndio? sasa wewe ulitaka iweje? kama Interahamwe mngejitenga na familia zenu nakuamua kupigana kama wanaume hayo yote yasingetokea ila mlicho fanya ni kujimx na familia zenu huku mkifanya hit n run, tena mlitangaziwa vya kutosha lakini hamkutaka kusikia, RPF ikaomba wazungu waliokua wanawahudumia kambini kwamba wapiganaji wakae chonjo ya familia zao la svyo mziki wote mtaucheza bado hamkutaka kusikia kwa hiyo kwa akili zako watu njia zote walizopita wanaruka maiti za ndugu zao wapenzi mpaka hapo Kibeho ulitaka washike bible waombe mungu mjitenge?
hao UN waache tu Jumali usione hawafuatilii kitu ukafikiri eti hawasikii kilio chenu wanajua mmeyataka wenyewe

 

[Koba]

Gen. Romeo amejaribu mara kadhaa kutaka kujiua kwa sababu ya msongo wa mawazo kutokana na mchango wake katika mauaji ya Rwanda...!

Soma kitabu chake vizuri 'Shaking the hands with Devil' utaona jinsi gani yeye mwenyewe anakiri kusaidia kampeni za RPF ikiwa ni pamoja na kusaidia wasaliti wa FAR aliowaita moderate hasa kutokea Butare na maeneo mengine ya kusini....!
Gen. Romeo yeye mwenyewe pia anakiri ni jinsi gani RPF revenge killings zilizokuwa zikifanywa na RPF...!

Pia anakiri mwenyewe tuhuma ambazo alikuwa akituhumiwa na FAR kuwa alitumia mwanya wa waangalizi wa kijeshi wa UNAMIR kukusanya intelligence information na kuzipitisha kwa RPF.....!

Pia Gen. Romeo ameenda mbali zaidi kukiri kuwa alikuwa 'fooled' na propaganda za RPF, kuwa si kweli walitaka peace solution but military victory kuchukua madaraka

Gen. Romeo huyo huyo anakiri kumhimiza Kagame kuongeza juhudi kuteka Kigali badala ya kudivert na kuelekea kusini ....anakiri kuwa Kagame alimjibu kuwa watutsi wanaokufanya sio jukumu lake kuhakikisha usalama wao...eti huo ndio mchango wao pia katika ukombozi.....! Then Kagame huyo anajitapa kuwa alienda kusimamisha mauji ya halaiki...!

Soma kitabu chote cha Gen. Romeo sio hio fax tu.....!

Revisionist....kawadanganye mafala wenzako sio hapa

 

[Kwetunikwetu]

Revisionist....kawadanganye mafala wenzako sio hapa

Talkandtalk......endelea kuona jinsi 'chama lako' linavyokimbia hoja kwa kufurumsha matusi...!

Kama kweli umesoma kitabu cha Gen. Romeo huwezi kujifanya hizo hoja hujaziona. Kama hujasoma kitabu hicho sema tu kuwa sifahamu hayo...!

Sometimes kama mtu hawezi kushindanisha hoja ni vizuri kukaa kimya......!

Ni vizuri kupanua ufahamu wako, hata kama unatetea jambo ambalo halina mashiko, tumia facts sio matusi...!