"Rwanda: The Untold Story": questions for the BBC

[MUKAMASIMBA]

Facts zitapingwaje na mtazamo wewe?

wewe jmali unaziita facts kivipi wakati wewe mwenyewe hauna proof? hao jamaa wanasema lakini hawana proof yoyote,sasa hizo zita kua fact kivipi? mimi naona tuite mtazamo wao, unaweza kua negative au positive.

 

[wa kupuliza]

wewe jmali unaziita facts kivipi wakati wewe mwenyewe hauna proof? hao jamaa wanasema lakini hawana proof yoyote,sasa hizo zita kua fact kivipi? mimi naona tuite mtazamo wao, unaweza kua negative au positive.

Jamaa kwenye hizo picha zinazoonesha mauaji waliyofanya hawawezi ku comment chochote,team yao nzima imezuga kama haijaziona vile Hahaha!

 

[Sijali]

Let's establish these facts (some are wading off the topic)
- genocide had happened in Rwanda, the victims of which are Tutsis and Hutus
2- PK has changed the face of Rwanda economically but not so in terms of Tutsi-Hutu relations (social coherence)
3- One should not denigrate the suffering of the Hutus
4- If no true reconciliation by owning up to the suffering of both Hutus and Tutsis, Rwanda will witness more trouble in the near future (possibly immediately after Kagame). Economic achievement alone can never bring content and fulfilment. Justice can.

 

[MUKAMASIMBA]

Jamaa kwenye hizo picha zinazoonesha mauaji waliyofanya hawawezi ku comment chochote,team yao nzima imezuga kama haijaziona vile Hahaha!

Ahahahah..hawa jamaa ni aibu ya waliyo yafanya rwanda inawasumbua yani wanatamani mtusi atoweke duniani ili wawe na amani ya roho zao,unajua kuona mtu ambaye ulimsaliti,ambaye ulikua ukimdharau na kuona si lolote sasa anakuongoza na kuleta mabadiliko makubwa yaliyo positive ambayo wao katika miaka hiyo yote hawakuweza!huu ni wivu wa kijinga sana.

 

[MUKAMASIMBA]

Let's establish these facts (some are wading off the topic)
- genocide had happened in Rwanda, the victims of
which are Tutsis and Hutus
2- PK has changed the face of Rwanda economically but not so in terms of Tutsi-Hutu relations (social coherence)
3- One should not denigrate the suffering of the Hutus
4- If no true reconciliation by owning up to the suffering of both Hutus and Tutsis, Rwanda will witness more trouble in the near future (possibly immediately after Kagame). Economic achievement alone can never bring content and fulfilment. Justice can.

Ndugu reconciliation is the process..not
athingh that will happen one night..hata ndugu wa tumbo moja inawachukua muda mrefu ku reconcile..zamani wakati wa utawala wawahutu hakuna mtusi aliyeshirikishwa katika uongozi wa ngazi za serikali..lakini sasa wahutu wamejaa uongozini na jeshini,watu waliua watusi wengi wameachiwa huru...waliokua wapiganaji FDLR wamesamejewa..hii inaonyesha na mengine yaliyobaki yatafikiwa cha muhinu ni determination na serikali ya kigali iko determined na wataweza kuwaunganisha wanyarwanda ingawa kuna majirani wa rwanda na baadhi ya wazungu ambao hawataki wanyarwanda kua na amani na hawakuamini kama rwanda itakua na amani na maendeleo kiasi hiki.

 

[jMali]

Ndugu reconciliation is the process..not
athingh that will happen one night..hata ndugu wa tumbo moja inawachukua muda mrefu ku reconcile..zamani wakati wa utawala wawahutu hakuna mtusi aliyeshirikishwa katika uongozi wa ngazi za serikali..lakini sasa wahutu wamejaa uongozini na jeshini,watu waliua watusi wengi wameachiwa huru...waliokua wapiganaji FDLR wamesamejewa..hii inaonyesha na mengine yaliyobaki yatafikiwa cha muhinu ni determination na serikali ya kigali iko determined na wataweza kuwaunganisha wanyarwanda ingawa kuna majirani wa rwanda na baadhi ya wazungu ambao hawataki wanyarwanda kua na amani na hawakuamini kama rwanda itakua na amani na maendeleo kiasi hiki.

1. Unazungumzia wakati wa utawala wa wahutu baada ya mapinduzi, je wakati wa UFALME WA KITUTSI wahutu walishirikishwa katika uongozi? Statistically, watu 8 kati ya 10 ni wahutu, watu 2 kati ya kumi ni watutsi, hivi kuna ajabu gani kwa nchi yenye takwimu hizo kukosa watutsi katika uongozi? Ajabu itakuwa pale watutsi wakiwa nusu au zaidi ya uongozi kama ilivyo sasa sio kinyume chake! Kuna polisi wangapi waarabu Tanzania? kuna wanajeshi wangapi wahindi tanzania? Hivi unadhani kuna hila hapo?

2. unadai eti watu waliua watutsi wengi wameachiwa huru, huu ni uongo wa wazi wazi! Hata wahutu ambao hawakuua watu wamewekwa ndani. Na kwa upande wa pili, walioua wahutu hata kesi hawana!

3. Eti unadai waliokuwa wapiganaji FDLR wamesamehewa: wasemehewe kwa kosa lipi? FDLR imeanzishwa mwaka 2000 huko DRC, ili kujilinda na mashambulizi ya Kagame. hii FDLR as an entity imefanya kosa gani Rwanda? Sema hivi, waliokuwa wapiganaji wa FDLR ------------ na kagame. Sio udai mambo ya kitoto kuwa "wamesamehewa". Mwanzilishi wa FDLR bila kupewa cheo na fedha angerudi Rwanda?
FDLR wanadai mazungumzo na Kagame. Kama kweli wamesamehewa shida inakuja wapi mpaka aliyeshauri hilo atishiwe "kupigwa"? If anything FDLR ndio inatakiwa kumsamehe Kagame/RPF!

4. Unadai kuwa majirani wa Rwanda na baadhi ya wazungu wana hila dhidi ya Rwanda. Hebu tuambie why on earth? Rwanda is the most densely populated country nadhani in Africa nzima, hamna ardhi yoyote ya maana mpaka watu wenu wanahamia kiharamu nchi zetu (of course kagame owns a big farm), hamna madini yoyote kuzidi anybody else in the EAC, maybe Burundi ambayo nadhani haimo kwenye maadui zenu (since tutsi-extremists control it too), hamna mafuta, hamna chochote. Hivi why do you think Rwanda is so important mpaka eti Tanzania, DRC, SADC, marekani, ufaransa, Uingereza....WOOTE HAWA WAIONEE WIVU? kwa nini hasa? Hii ni typical tutsi extremists-superiority syndrome, kujiona nyinyi watu wa maana sana...

 

[wa kupuliza]

1. Unazungumzia wakati wa utawala wa wahutu baada ya mapinduzi, je wakati wa UFALME WA KITUTSI wahutu walishirikishwa katika uongozi? Statistically, watu 8 kati ya 10 ni wahutu, watu 2 kati ya kumi ni watutsi, hivi kuna ajabu gani kwa nchi yenye takwimu hizo kukosa watutsi katika uongozi? Ajabu itakuwa pale watutsi wakiwa nusu au zaidi ya uongozi kama ilivyo sasa sio kinyume chake! Kuna polisi wangapi waarabu Tanzania? kuna wanajeshi wangapi wahindi tanzania? Hivi unadhani kuna hila hapo?

2. unadai eti watu waliua watutsi wengi wameachiwa huru, huu ni uongo wa wazi wazi! Hata wahutu ambao hawakuua watu wamewekwa ndani. Na kwa upande wa pili, walioua wahutu hata kesi hawana!

3. Eti unadai waliokuwa wapiganaji FDLR wamesamehewa: wasemehewe kwa kosa lipi? FDLR imeanzishwa mwaka 2000 huko DRC, ili kujilinda na mashambulizi ya Kagame. hii FDLR as an entity imefanya kosa gani Rwanda? Sema hivi, waliokuwa wapiganaji wa FDLR ------------ na kagame. Sio udai mambo ya kitoto kuwa "wamesamehewa". Mwanzilishi wa FDLR bila kupewa cheo na fedha angerudi Rwanda?
FDLR wanadai mazungumzo na Kagame. Kama kweli wamesamehewa shida inakuja wapi mpaka aliyeshauri hilo atishiwe "kupigwa"? If anything FDLR ndio inatakiwa kumsamehe Kagame/RPF!

4. Unadai kuwa majirani wa Rwanda na baadhi ya wazungu wana hila dhidi ya Rwanda. Hebu tuambie why on earth? Rwanda is the most densely populated country nadhani in Africa nzima, hamna ardhi yoyote ya maana mpaka watu wenu wanahamia kiharamu nchi zetu (of course kagame owns a big farm), hamna madini yoyote kuzidi anybody else in the EAC, maybe Burundi ambayo nadhani haimo kwenye maadui zenu (since tutsi-extremists control it too), hamna mafuta, hamna chochote. Hivi why do you think Rwanda is so important mpaka eti Tanzania, DRC, SADC, marekani, ufaransa, Uingereza....WOOTE HAWA WAIONEE WIVU? kwa nini hasa? Hii ni typical tutsi extremists-superiority syndrome, kujiona nyinyi watu wa maana sana...

Vp kwny zile picha sioni comment yako!!

 

[murutongore]

jMali

Kama CCM ilivyoanzishwa 1977

 

[Kwetunikwetu]

Hili swali niliwahi kumuuliza jMali, kwa nini na tuhuma zote hizo ambazo mnasema Kagame alifanya hajafikishwa mahakamani? Labda msaidi jMali manake yeye huwa analikwepa hili swali

Ni swali jepesi sana.....! World Politics imechezwa on favour ya Kagame na kagenge chake cha wahuni...! US na UK ndio walikuwa nyuma ya kuzuia juhudi zozote za kumfikisha Kagame na kagenge chake cha wahuni kwenye mashtaka.....ushahidi upo wa kutosha hilo halina shaka kabisa....!
1. Mtazamo wa kinafiki wa US na UK ulikuwa kwamba ni kweli Kagame and kagenge chake cha wahuni wameshiriki kwenye genocide.....lakini walionelea si vyema kuruhusu uchunguzi wa kina juu yao na kuwashitaki kwa vile ingeleta more disturbance kuliko stability
2. Mpango mzima wa kumweka Kagame na kagenge chake cha wahuni ulikuwa una baraka za US na UK. Ukianzia kwenye Arusha Accord kama umeisoma vizuri utaona mapungufu mengi ambayo yalikuwa na makusudi ya kuiweka RPF kwenye driving seat. Shinikizo kubwa lilitoka kwa US na UK ili mkataba huo usainiwe na pia uwe implemented (refer the critical statement by Bagosora wakati akijitoa na kususia mazungumzo ya Arusha...'going back to prepare an apocalypse')
3. Final attack dhidi ya ndege ya Habyarimana ili kupelekea vita ya mwisho kutwaa madaraka ilipangwa mapema sana (refer written statements by Luc Machal). Miscalculation ya Kagame na kagenge chake cha wahuni ndio ilileta tragedy (refer recent statement by Nyamwasa na pia soma maelezo ya Anatoe Nsengiyumva, Gen. Romeo mwenyewe etc)......ukitaka kujua zaidi jikumbushe pale Gaza 2007 US walipomtumia Mohamed Dahlan kufanya final solution dhidi ya Hamas na matekeo yake ilikuwa nini. Kwa kifupi Kagame na kagenge chake cha wahuni wali-underestimate uwezo wa silaha za FAR (kwa vile tayari according to Arusha Accord...Kigali haikupaswa kuwa na silaha kali...kumbe wajuzi wa mambo ya kijeshi waliliona hilo na kuficha silaha nyingi kali within the perimeter ya Kigali....hata Gen. Romeo kwanye kitabu chake anakiri kushangazwa na kuona silaha mpya zikiwa na Para commando battalion. Pili Kagame na kagenge chake cha wahuni wali-underestimate uwezo wa vikosi vilivyoko Kigali....hivyo upinzani mkubwa walioupata toka kwa Presidential Guards (akina Protais Mpiranya), Reconaissance batallion na Para-Commando batallion (akina Ntabakuze) iliharibu ramani yote ya RPF ya vita.

Itoshe kukujibu kuwa, Kagame na kagenge chake cha wahuni hawajashtakiwa hata mmoja kwa vile kesi za Arusha ziliendeshwa kisiasa.....na kutokana na shinikizo la US na UK walihakikisha Carla Del Ponte anasitisha uchunguzi dhidi ya maafisa wa RPF. Hata majaji wa ICTR walikuwa pressurized kutoa political convinctions kwa washitakiwa toka upande wa ex-FAR. Lakini mambo yaliyovyokuja kujiri kwenye Appeal chambers yameonesha mengi ambayo ulimwengu ulikuwa hauyajui....! Ni jambo la kufurahisha kuwa Tanzania ilishinda ile tenda ya kuhifadhi nyaraka za ICTR, hivyo with time tutajifunza mengi sana.....!

Binafsi msimamo wangu ni kuwa...
1. Ni kweli watu wasio na hatia waliuawa Rwanda...wahutu kwa watutsi
2. Idadi ya waliouawa ni kubwa.....makadirio yawezekana kuwa sahihi....ila majority ni wahutu through reprisal and systematic killings that happened later
3. Some key figures within ex-FAR and RPF walistahili kushtakiwa kwa kushindwa kusimamisha vita na kupelekea mauaji ya halaiki

 

[king kan]

Mtazamo wa Kwetunikwetu unaweza kuwa na mantiki. RPF inawezekana kuna mauaji walifanya ila wameleta stability na uhakika wa maisha nchini Rwanda. Kujaribu kumshitaki Kagame kungesababisha disaster kwa watutsi waliokuwa wamesalia.
Kampeni inayoendeshwa na genociders haikubaliki nchi imekuwa stable anayetaka kuparticipate akaungane na wenzake wajenge nchi. Tabia ya kujificha na kushutumu wengine kwa malengo maovu haikubaliki.

 

[murutongore]

Mtazamo wa Kwetunikwetu unaweza kuwa na mantiki. RPF inawezekana kuna mauaji walifanya ila wameleta stability na uhakika wa maisha nchini Rwanda. Kujaribu kumshitaki Kagame kungesababisha disaster kwa watutsi waliokuwa wamesalia.
Kampeni inayoendeshwa na genociders haikubaliki nchi imekuwa stable anayetaka kuparticipate akaungane na wenzake wajenge nchi. Tabia ya kujificha na kushutumu wengine kwa malengo maovu haikubaliki.

cc jMali aka Jean Marie, aka Leader wa Interahamwe in Diaspora
Koba, Talkandtalk, MUKAMASIMBA,

 

[Koba]

Kwetunikwetu
Waulize FAR na interahamwe kama RPF walikuwa kagenge ka wahuni?ukipata jibu rudi tuongee

 

[jMali]

Mtazamo wa Kwetunikwetu unaweza kuwa na mantiki. RPF inawezekana kuna mauaji walifanya ila wameleta stability na uhakika wa maisha nchini Rwanda. Kujaribu kumshitaki Kagame kungesababisha disaster kwa watutsi waliokuwa wamesalia.
Kampeni inayoendeshwa na genociders haikubaliki nchi imekuwa stable anayetaka kuparticipate akaungane na wenzake wajenge nchi. Tabia ya kujificha na kushutumu wengine kwa malengo maovu haikubaliki.

1. sio RPF inawezekana...., mauaji ya RPF ni FACT hata wao wenyewe baadhi ya mauaji walikubali, walichokuwa wanabisha ni idadi, mauaji ya RPF DRC yako documented, mauaji ya RPF kwenye makambi ya wahutu yako documented. Tukirudi mwanzo kabisa wa mgogoro ni uvamizi wa RPF kuanzia mwaka 1990. Kwa hayo yote napata wasiwasi na wewe unapotoa kauli eti "inawezekana kuna mauaji wamefanya...", hiyo ni sawa na kusema interahamwe "inawezekana kuna mauaji wamefanya"!

2. Unadai RPF wameleta stability, well, nani alileta instability to begin with? kabla ya uvamizi wa RPF walioua wanyarwanda na kufanya wanyarwanda kuwa wakimbizi ndani mwao (internal displacement) kulikuwa na vita Rwanda? what stability ambayo RPF imeleta ikiwa leo waandishi wa habari wanapigwa risasi, wagombea urais wa upinzani wanachinjwa, wapinzani wengine wanapotea kusikojulikana, mabomu yanalipuliwa sokoni, wanyarwanda wanakimbilia nchi jirani kuwa wahamiaji haramu, wanyarwanda wakimbizi (namaanisha watutsi sio wahutu wa DRC) HAWATAKI kuondolewa hadhi ya ukimbizi kwenye nchi walizomo (malawi, zambia, msumbiji...) kwa kuhofia kurudi kwao chini ya kagame na mengineyo mengi hapo kuna stability?

3. Unasema kumshitaki kagame kungesababisha disaster hii sio kweli. Kagame sio protector wa watutsi na wala hajawahi kuwa protector wa watutsi. Rwanda ina asilimia around 15 tu ya watutsi na asilimia around 85 wahutu. Baada ya mapinduzi ya 1959 mpaka 1994 ulishawahi kusikia "genocide against tutsis"?

4. Unasema kuna kampeni inaendeshwa na genociders...Je hao genociders ni nani? Majina yao ni nani?

 

[jMali]

Waulize FAR na interahamwe kama RPF walikuwa kagenge ka wahuni?ukipata jibu rudi tuongee

kwa vile sisi ni watanzania hatuwezi kuuliza FAR wala interahamwe, ila tumeshawauliza TPDF ambao nao pia wamepigana na RPF (according to UN report) na majibu nadhani unayajua.

 

[Koba]

jMali
All noise,nyie lazima msafishwe na ideology zenu zote ili Amani ya kweli ipatikane Rwanda na mtasafishwa tuu 100%.

 

[jMali]

All noise,nyie lazima msafishwe na ideology zenu zote ili Amani ya kweli ipatikane Rwanda na mtasafishwa tuu 100%.

siku hizi hadi BBC wana ideology hiyo hiyo!

 

[Koba]

kwa vile sisi ni watanzania hatuwezi kuuliza FAR wala interahamwe, ila tumeshawauliza TPDF ambao nao pia wamepigana na RPF (according to UN report) na majibu nadhani unayajua.

RPF hawajawahi kupigana na TPDF and you are NOT Tanzanian at all...may be in your dreams.

 

[Kwetunikwetu]

Waulize FAR na interahamwe kama RPF walikuwa kagenge ka wahuni?ukipata jibu rudi tuongee

Hakuna shaka yeyote ndani ya Rwanda kuwa Kagame na kagenge chake cha wahuni ndio tatizo. Si kweli kuwa RPF wote walikuwa ni wauaji. Ndio maana mara baada ya kugundulika uovu ambao Kagame na kagenge chake cha wahuni kulitokea mtafaruku na reprisal killings ikaongezeka...! Baada ya mauaji ya Kibeho jiulize na watu wangapi wa RPF walijitoa na kukimbia Rwanda?

 

[jMali]

RPF hawajawahi kupigana na TPDF and you are NOT Tanzanian at all...may be in your dreams.

hahahaha. kwa vile mlichapwa unajikataa sio? anyway hata humu JF wewe si mmarekani? hamna tabu "mmarekani"!

 

[Koba]

Hakuna shaka yeyote ndani ya Rwanda kuwa Kagame na kagenge chake cha wahuni ndio tatizo. Si kweli kuwa RPF wote walikuwa ni wauaji. Ndio maana mara baada ya kugundulika uovu ambao Kagame na kagenge chake cha wahuni kulitokea mtafaruku na reprisal killings ikaongezeka...! Baada ya mauaji ya Kibeho jiulize na watu wangapi wa RPF walijitoa na kukimbia Rwanda?

No time for debate killers wanajulikana....either face the justice system or muokotwe mtaani one at a time.