"Rwanda: The Untold Story": questions for the BBC

[Ukwaju]

jMali

1. The prosecutor's office had evidence to indict kagame in 2002, but she was removed before doing that?
As long as those evidence are not out, as long as Kagame was not indicted why do you force me to believe that??
2. That in 1997, UN investigative team recommended the prosecutor of ICTR to arrest kagame?
Then why they didn`t arrest him?
3. That former US secretary of state Warren Christopher confirms that the white house received intel on RPF mass killings in 1994.
Even to day those msg are still sent not only to white house but also to HRW,UN etc not all sent messages are credible,
Do you know how many reports are being sent by Rudasingwa and the likes?

Watutsi acheni ujinga wenu msiwafanye Watanzania makanyaboya
mmeshasahau mlipoambiwa mrudi kwenu mlianza kulialia hadi humu JF na kusema Mke wa JK ni ndugu yenu
mnadhubutu kusema Kagame kwanini hajakamatwa ok
Ni nani alimuuua Jaji Mwaikasu aliyekuwa akifuatilia tuhuma za Kagame?
mtawaua wapinzani wenu wote lakini kumbukeni hamtatawala tena hiyo Rwanda siku zenu zinzhesabika
sasa hivi mnaanza vitisho hata kwa Member wanaowapa ukweli km jMali
MTASTAARABIKA LINI NA KUACHA ukabila?
https://www.jamiiforums.com/interna...dau-wa-international-forum-who-is-jumali.html

 

[Talkandtalk]

Watutsi acheni ujinga wenu msiwafanye Watanzania makanyaboya
mmeshasahau mlipoambiwa mrudi kwenu mlianza kulialia hadi humu JF na kusema Mke wa JK ni ndugu yenu
mnadhubutu kusema Kagame kwanini hajakamatwa ok
Ni nani alimuuua Jaji Mwaikasu aliyekuwa akifuatilia tuhuma za Kagame?
mtawaua wapinzani wenu wote lakini kumbukeni hamtatawala tena hiyo Rwanda siku zenu zinzhesabika
sasa hivi mnaanza vitisho hata kwa Member wanaowapa ukweli km jMali
MTASTAARABIKA LINI NA KUACHA ukabila?
https://www.jamiiforums.com/interna...dau-wa-international-forum-who-is-jumali.html

Hahah!so Mr.Ukwaju unataka kuchanganya topic sio??

 

[Kwetunikwetu]

1:It is very simple copy and paste it here manake nikipitia ruling i dont see that statement, what i can see are just rulings for Bagosora na mwenzake, ingekuwa hivyo shitaka hilo lingekuwa dropped na prosecution kwa washtakiwa wengine.
2.Reports zilikuwa cover up???? and from 2006 zimeanza ku loose ground?? what are your basis??
Unataka kusema UN,HRW reports are no longer credible and have lost ground due to informations raised by websites like proxylake?
Nadhani tunakalibia mwisho wa mjadala:::Hahah

1. Rudia post zangu utaona conclusion ya presiding judge ndio maana serikali ya Rwanda ilihamaki....! Makosa waliyobaki nayo ni yale yanayohusu specific actions za mauaji yaliyofanywa na surbonates wao...mfano Ntabakuze kwa mauaji yaliyotokea Remera.....! Lakini suala la kupangwa mauaji lilikataliwa
2. Ndio ni public knowledge kulikuwa na cover up...! Sio siri, ndio maana mambo yanawekwa wazi sasa....mnaanza kuhaha...! Carl Del Ponte alipotaka kumchunguza Kagame kwa tuhuma za mauaji ikiwemo kuangushwa kwa ndege ya Habyarimana alizuiwa.....sio siri tena...!

Kama umekosa hoja unaanza kurudia rudia chagua mjadala mwingine.....either Congo, CAR, South SUDAN, DARFUR, SOMALIA, ISIL, GAZA, LEBANON twende kazi

 

[Talkandtalk]

1. Rudia post zangu utaona conclusion ya presiding judge ndio maana serikali ya Rwanda ilihamaki....! Makosa waliyobaki nayo ni yale yanayohusu specific actions za mauaji yaliyofanywa na surbonates wao...mfano Ntabakuze kwa mauaji yaliyotokea Remera.....! Lakini suala la kupangwa mauaji lilikataliwa
2. Ndio ni public knowledge kulikuwa na cover up...! Sio siri, ndio maana mambo yanawekwa wazi sasa....mnaanza kuhaha...! Carl Del Ponte alipotaka kumchunguza Kagame kwa tuhuma za mauaji ikiwemo kuangushwa kwa ndege ya Habyarimana alizuiwa.....sio siri tena...!

Kama umekosa hoja unaanza kurudia rudia chagua mjadala mwingine.....either Congo, CAR, South SUDAN, DARFUR, SOMALIA, ISIL, GAZA, LEBANON twende kazi

Ok,hiyo ilikuwa conclusion juu ya Bagosora and not conclusion on what happened in Rwanda, anyway lets stop here.
Naona umeshindwa kutetea the so called facts of yours:

 

[Kwetunikwetu]

Ok,hiyo ilikuwa conclusion juu ya Bagosora and not conclusion on what happened in Rwanda, anyway lets stop here.
Naona umeshindwa kutetea the so called facts of yours:

Naona kwa makusudi unashindwa kuelewa au unazuga kuwa hujui kuwa Bagosora ndio alisemekana kuwa brain behind the genocide....! Kama hujui basi nikujuze, kuwa planning of genocide ilijengwa juu ya Bagosora
1. Kwanza kwa vile alikuwa mtu wa karibu na Habyarimana, na alishiriki vikao vingi vya maamuzi dhidi ya usalama wa Rwanda na hata katika negotiations za Arusha
2. Kauli yake pale aliposusia mazungumzo ya Arusha kutokana na kuona government delegates kutoka vyama vya upinzani ndani ya Rwanda wanaingia irresponsible commitment kinyume na walivyotumwa wala bila consultations...ile famous statement yake kuwa..'naenda kuandaaa apocalypse...' ilikuja kutumika kama ushahidi kuwa mauji yalipangwa
3. Bagosora alikuwa kwenye kamati iliyoundwa na Habyarimana ili kuandaa strategy ya kumshinda adui, na moja na recommendations zake na statements za report ile zilionesha extremism, ambavyo pia vilitumiwa na UN Prosecutor kuwa Bagosora alishiriki kuandaa genocide
4. Ile page ya diary ya Bagosora attached, ilitumika pia kuonesha kuwa katika mkutano huo mipango ya genocide ilikuwa ikifanyika
5. Kwa wadhifa wake kama Katibu mkuu wizara ya Ulinzi alikuwa the most senior political figure within the army after Habyarimana himself. Kwa hivyo, militarily, wakati Habyarimana anauawa, waziri wa Ulinzi alikuwa Cameroon, hivyo Bagosora na alikuwa the most senior, na allegation ni kwamba genocide ilianza siku ile ile 6 April, hivyo Bagosora alikuwa responsible for the execution of the plan



Kwa hivyo hapo nimejaru roughly kukuonesha kuwa theory nzima ya genocide planning ilijengwa juu ya Bagosora. Ndio maana hata RPF walitumia hilo kusema kuwa Bagosora na extreme wenzake ndio walimuua Habyarimana ili wafanye genocide, kauli ambayo kwa sasa hata RPF hawawezi tena kuisema maana ni aibu....!

I hope i have clarified why i talked of Bagosora......hata ukienda kwenye zile memorials za Kigali, story yote ya genocide inaanzia kwa Bagosora...wengine wote hata majina hawatajwi...!

 

[Koba]

Naona kwa makusudi unashindwa kuelewa au unazuga kuwa hujui kuwa Bagosora ndio alisemekana kuwa brain behind the genocide....! Kama hujui basi nikujuze, kuwa planning of genocide ilijengwa juu ya Bagosora
1. Kwanza kwa vile alikuwa mtu wa karibu na Habyarimana, na alishiriki vikao vingi vya maamuzi dhidi ya usalama wa Rwanda na hata katika negotiations za Arusha
2. Kauli yake pale aliposusia mazungumzo ya Arusha kutokana na kuona government delegates kutoka vyama vya upinzani ndani ya Rwanda wanaingia irresponsible commitment kinyume na walivyotumwa wala bila consultations...ile famous statement yake kuwa..'naenda kuandaaa apocalypse...' ilikuja kutumika kama ushahidi kuwa mauji yalipangwa
3. Bagosora alikuwa kwenye kamati iliyoundwa na Habyarimana ili kuandaa strategy ya kumshinda adui, na moja na recommendations zake na statements za report ile zilionesha extremism, ambavyo pia vilitumiwa na UN Prosecutor kuwa Bagosora alishiriki kuandaa genocide
4. Ile page ya diary ya Bagosora attached, ilitumika pia kuonesha kuwa katika mkutano huo mipango ya genocide ilikuwa ikifanyika
5. Kwa wadhifa wake kama Katibu mkuu wizara ya Ulinzi alikuwa the most senior political figure within the army after Habyarimana himself. Kwa hivyo, militarily, wakati Habyarimana anauawa, waziri wa Ulinzi alikuwa Cameroon, hivyo Bagosora na alikuwa the most senior, na allegation ni kwamba genocide ilianza siku ile ile 6 April, hivyo Bagosora alikuwa responsible for the execution of the plan

View attachment 194540

Kwa hivyo hapo nimejaru roughly kukuonesha kuwa theory nzima ya genocide planning ilijengwa juu ya Bagosora. Ndio maana hata RPF walitumia hilo kusema kuwa Bagosora na extreme wenzake ndio walimuua Habyarimana ili wafanye genocide, kauli ambayo kwa sasa hata RPF hawawezi tena kuisema maana ni aibu....!

I hope i have clarified why i talked of Bagosora......hata ukienda kwenye zile memorials za Kigali, story yote ya genocide inaanzia kwa Bagosora...wengine wote hata majina hawatajwi...!

Keep yapping huyo Bagosora unayemtetea alishapigwa life mwehu mkubwa wewe

Alleged architect of the 1994 mass killings sentenced to life in prison. Last Modified: 18 Dec 2008 20:00 GMT

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[TD="class: articleTitle"]Rwanda genocide 'mastermind' jailed [/TD]

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[TD="align: center"] Bagosora, said to be the 'mastermind' of the 1994 genocide, was sentenced to life in prison [AFP] [/TD]

A UN-backed tribunal has convicted Theoneste Bagosora, a former Rwandan army colonel, of organising the 1994 genocide in Rwanda.
Two other former military officers were also convicted by the International Criminal Tribunal for Rwanda on Thursday for their role in the mass killings of minority Tutsis and moderate Hutus.

"Colonel Bagosora is guilty of genocide and crimes against humanity and war crimes," the court said.
The tribunal, based in Arusha, Tanzania, accused Bagosora of leading the troops and Interahamwe Hutu fighters that carried out the killings, which left an estimated 800,000 dead.
Prosecutors said Bagosora, formerly a cabinet director in the defence ministry, assumed control of military and political affairs in Rwanda after Juvenal Habyarimana, then Rwanda's president, was killed when his plane was shot down.
Bagosora was said to have stormed out of peace talks in Tanzania saying he was returning to Rwanda to "prepare the apocalypse".
'Brutal and racist'
Linda Melvern, a journalist and a consultant for the International Criminal Tribunal for Rwanda, told Al Jazeera that Thursday's convictions would "mean a lot for the people of Rwanda".
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[TD="class: MostActiveDescHeader, bgcolor: #b68809"]Theoneste Bagosora [/TD]
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Born on August 16, 1941 in Rwanda's Gisenyi prefecture, the region home to many of the country's former Hutu elite.Graduated as an officer in 1964 and later went for advanced military studies at a French staff college. He retired from the army in 1993 but remained at his post in the defence ministry.After the genocide, Bagosora fled into exile in Cameroon where he was arrested in 1996.His trial began in 2002.Romeo Dallaire, who led UN peacekeepers during the Rwanda genocide, described Bagosora as the "kingpin" behind the killings and said that the colonel had threatened to kill him with a pistol.​

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"We can only hope that life [in prison] will mean life and wherever he [Bagosora] serves his sentence there is a guarantee that he will be secure ... The genocide was extraordinarily brutal and these convicts are the most brutal, brutal, racist people."But she said that many of those who played roles in the killings had yet to be brought to justice.
"The original list that I have of category one perpetrators - those who financed and organised the genocide - has some 240 names, so there are very many genocidaires who are still at large," she said.
Kennedy Ndahiro, the editor of the Rwandan daily newspaper The New Times, told Al Jazeera: "The mood here is that something is being seen to be done after 14 years of waiting."
But Ndahiro said that generally the view in Rwanda is that the tribunal has been "very lazy" in taking so long to begin convicting those culpable.
Earlier the tribunal found Habyarimana's brother-in-law Protais Zigiranyirazo, known as "Monsieur Z", guilty of genocide and sentenced him to 55 years in prison.
Zigiranyirazo was accused of being a member of the Akazu, the ruling elite of Hutu family members and relatives who are believed to have plotted to exterminate the minority Tutsis.
He was said to have been a member of the notorious Zero Network of death squads which killed hundreds of Tutsis and opposition leaders in the years leading up to the genocide.
Prosecutors said Zigiranyirazo sanctioned roadblocks to be set up near his three residences and paid for a mass grave to be dug outside his compound to bury those killed.
Zigiranyirazo was also said to have armed, trained and clothed the Interahamwe fighters who conducted most of the killings.
The court began its work in 1997 and has until the end of the year to wind up its activities and until 2010 to hear all appeals.
The UN General Assembly is discussing whether to extend the court's mandate.


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[TD] Source:
Al Jazeera and agencies
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[Talkandtalk]

Naona kwa makusudi unashindwa kuelewa au unazuga kuwa hujui kuwa Bagosora ndio alisemekana kuwa brain behind the genocide....! Kama hujui basi nikujuze, kuwa planning of genocide ilijengwa juu ya Bagosora
1. Kwanza kwa vile alikuwa mtu wa karibu na Habyarimana, na alishiriki vikao vingi vya maamuzi dhidi ya usalama wa Rwanda na hata katika negotiations za Arusha
2. Kauli yake pale aliposusia mazungumzo ya Arusha kutokana na kuona government delegates kutoka vyama vya upinzani ndani ya Rwanda wanaingia irresponsible commitment kinyume na walivyotumwa wala bila consultations...ile famous statement yake kuwa..'naenda kuandaaa apocalypse...' ilikuja kutumika kama ushahidi kuwa mauji yalipangwa
3. Bagosora alikuwa kwenye kamati iliyoundwa na Habyarimana ili kuandaa strategy ya kumshinda adui, na moja na recommendations zake na statements za report ile zilionesha extremism, ambavyo pia vilitumiwa na UN Prosecutor kuwa Bagosora alishiriki kuandaa genocide
4. Ile page ya diary ya Bagosora attached, ilitumika pia kuonesha kuwa katika mkutano huo mipango ya genocide ilikuwa ikifanyika
5. Kwa wadhifa wake kama Katibu mkuu wizara ya Ulinzi alikuwa the most senior political figure within the army after Habyarimana himself. Kwa hivyo, militarily, wakati Habyarimana anauawa, waziri wa Ulinzi alikuwa Cameroon, hivyo Bagosora na alikuwa the most senior, na allegation ni kwamba genocide ilianza siku ile ile 6 April, hivyo Bagosora alikuwa responsible for the execution of the plan

View attachment 194540

Kwa hivyo hapo nimejaru roughly kukuonesha kuwa theory nzima ya genocide planning ilijengwa juu ya Bagosora. Ndio maana hata RPF walitumia hilo kusema kuwa Bagosora na extreme wenzake ndio walimuua Habyarimana ili wafanye genocide, kauli ambayo kwa sasa hata RPF hawawezi tena kuisema maana ni aibu....!

I hope i have clarified why i talked of Bagosora......hata ukienda kwenye zile memorials za Kigali, story yote ya genocide inaanzia kwa Bagosora...wengine wote hata majina hawatajwi...!

Ungekuwa na interest ya kujuwa ukweli, ungefanya na analysis ya UN,HRW reports zilizokuwa zinatolewa kabla hata ya ndege kuangushwa, ungefuatilia mauaji ya Watutsi years before.
This can be endless i think i am ending here, labda uki raise new point:
On my side:
As per UN security Council, as per Human rights watch what happened in Rwanda was Genocide against Tutsi (i have attached documents to support my argument):

 

[Koba]

Ungekuwa na interest ya kujuwa ukweli, ungefanya na analysis ya UN,HRW reports zilizokuwa zinatolewa kabla hata ya ndege kuangushwa, ungefuatilia mauaji ya Watutsi years before.
This can be endless i think i am ending here, labda uki raise new point:
On my side:
As per UN security Council, as per Human rights watch what happened in Rwanda was Genocide against Tutsi (i have attached documents to support my argument):

Dont waste time na hawa revisionist wanakupotezea muda tuu.

 

[Kwetunikwetu]

Ungekuwa na interest ya kujuwa ukweli, ungefanya na analysis ya UN,HRW reports zilizokuwa zinatolewa kabla hata ya ndege kuangushwa, ungefuatilia mauaji ya Watutsi years before.
This can be endless i think i am ending here, labda uki raise new point:
On my side:
As per UN security Council, as per Human rights watch what happened in Rwanda was Genocide against Tutsi (i have attached documents to support my argument):

Itoshe kusema kuwa hayo yote kwenye paragraph yako ya kwanza nayafahamu vizuri sana...! Vitabu vingi zimeeleza historia hiyo kwa undani....tangu enzi za wafalme wa kihutu na kitutsi mpaka kuja ukoloni....! Habari za southern and northern kings na jinsi walivyo support au kupinga ukoloni vyote nafahamu vizuri sana.....at least at advanced level!

Reports hizo unazozisema za Human Rights Watch, Unclassified UN communication, unclassified US Embassy communications etc zimesisoma sana....hata Gersony report nimeisoma pia...! Kuhusu literature kuhusu Rwandan genocide nimesoma vya kutosha.....!

I don't take sides.....nisichokubaliana na baadhi ya watu ni kung'ang'ania kuwa mauji yalifanywa one-sided, kitu ambacho si kweli...! During and after the Genocide officially ended, yet people continued to be killed.....Gen. Romeo mwenyewe kwenye UN report anakiri kuwa alipokutana na Kagame at one point in Mulindi, na kumweleza hisia zake kuwa kutatokea bloodbath akianzisha vita....Kagame alimjibu kuwa hiyo ni part of collateral damage and it is within war plan...!

Isingekuwa unafiki wa US na kutumia mabavu kupindisha mambo pale UN, Kagame nae angeshafikishwa ICTR siku nyingi.....! Kama ilivyokuwa kwamba sio ex-FAR wote walikuwa extremists, pia sio RPF wote walikuwa extremists na wauaji, isipokuwa Kagame na kagenge chake cha wahuni historia haiwezi kuwaacha watudanganye...!

Hakuna anaekataa kuwa Presidential guards walianza kuweka roadblocks mara baada ya ndege ya raisi kuangushwa na kuwa confirmed na Ntabakuze aliyekuwa wa kwanza kwenda kwenye crush site kudhibitisha yaliyojiri kwa Habyarimana...! Reaction ya Presidential guards in event of sudden death of head of state especially under suspicious circumstances inajulikana....! For education sake angalia Opunta panel ya Nigeria, tafuta clips za Major Mustafa alipokuwa akizungumzia yaliyojiri shortly after sudden death of Abacha ndio utajua nachosema ni nini...!

Kwa hivyo ingawaje akina Bagosora waliweka crisis committee, lakini kwa siku mbili au tatu za mwanzo operations nyingi pale Kigali zilitegemea Mudacumura na Mpiranya walivyoamua....na hakuna aliyekuwa na uwezo wa kuwazuia kwa wakati ule...!

 

[Kwetunikwetu]

Naona huyu Koba ananipotezea muda tu kumbe hata haelewi kinachoendelea duniani leo...! Yaani hujui kuwa kwenye appeal chamber ICTR Bagosora alipunguziwa kifungo mpaka miaka 35...? Mpaka leo hujui kuwa Protais Zigiranyirazo aliachiwa huru..?

Ndio maana nasema baadhi yenu mnanipotezea muda tu... hata mnachokisimamia hamkijui...!

 

[Koba]

Naona huyu Koba ananipotezea muda tu kumbe hata haelewi kinachoendelea duniani leo...! Yaani hujui kuwa kwenye appeal chamber ICTR Bagosora alipunguziwa kifungo mpaka miaka 35...? Mpaka leo hujui kuwa Protais Zigiranyirazo aliachiwa huru..?

Ndio maana nasema baadhi yenu mnanipotezea muda tu... hata mnachokisimamia hamkijui...!

Sina haja ya kujua and 35 or life doesn't matter, huyo hero wako Bagosora hatatoka humo kwa age yake,unajipotezea muda mweyewe na garbage zako unazopost humu,waambie heros zako kina Kabuga wataokotwa one at a time

 

[Kwetunikwetu]

Sina haja ya kujua and 35 or life doesn't matter, huyo hero wako Bagosora hatatoka humo kwa age yake,unajipotezea muda mweyewe na garbage zako unazopost humu,waambie heros zako kina Kabuga wataokotwa one at a time

Nikushukuru sana kwa kukiri kutokujua mambo ila unashabikia tu......! Murakoze cyane......!

 

[jMali]

Acha kujifanya wa maana wakati njaa tupu...and why do you have lie? reason hautaonekana kwa sababu utakuwa huna hoja hukuiona? now imegeuka kupigwa risasi,kunyongwa,vitisho etc then mwenzako kwetunikwetu jump in eti acheni vitisho kwa jmali....nice try though.

kwa hiyo huwa mnatoa uhai wa wa watu wa "maana" tu au sio?

 

[jMali]

Sina haja ya kujua and 35 or life doesn't matter, huyo hero wako Bagosora hatatoka humo kwa age yake,unajipotezea muda mweyewe na garbage zako unazopost humu,waambie heros zako kina Kabuga wataokotwa one at a time

just pure hate then....

 

[Bongolander]

Wakuu i must be honest, i really hate this uhutu and ututsui bullsh!t. Ninasikitika sana kuona kinacoendelea humu kinaanza kufanana sana na contents za Radio Television Libre des Mille Collines. Ni bora tujadili mzizi wa tatizo ambao ni chuki za kikabila.

Facts are the ones that need to be discussed, not political gibberish. If we buy the narrative that it is only tutsis who got murdered and keep spreading it, or the narrative that all Hutus are Bagosoras and should apologize, huo utakuwa ujinga sana.

Sidhani kama kuna mtu anabisha kuwa watutsi waliuawa, we saw bodies and we have buried some on our land. But we buried hutus too.

Ni jambo la aibu sana kuendelea kuwasifia watu wenye akili kama kina Bagosora. A murderer is a murderer regardless of his looks. He can be Tanzanian, hutu or tutsi. Lets reject that ideology of murder, and the propaganda that spreads it.

CC Mukamasimba, Koba, Rushasha

 

[murutongore]

Wakuu i must be honest, i really hate this uhutu and ututsui bullsh!t. Ninasikitika sana kuona kinacoendelea humu kinaanza kufanana sana na contents za Radio Television Libre des Mille Collines. Ni bora tujadili mzizi wa tatizo ambao ni chuki za kikabila.

Facts are the ones that need to be discussed, not political gibberish. If we buy the narrative that it is only tutsis who got murdered and keep spreading it, or the narrative that all Hutus are Bagosoras and should apologize, huo utakuwa ujinga sana.

Sidhani kama kuna mtu anabisha kuwa watutsi waliuawa, we saw bodies and we have buried some on our land. But we buried hutus too.

Ni jambo la aibu sana kuendelea kuwasifia watu wenye akili kama kina Bagosora. A murderer is a murderer regardless of his looks. He can be Tanzanian, hutu or tutsi. Lets reject that ideology of murder, and the propaganda that spreads it.

CC Mukamasimba, Koba, Rushasha

Mkuu, labda hujaelewa tatizo ni nini. tatizo kubwa ni watu ambao wanataka ku rewrite history ya genocide. Period. Hivi mbona sioni watu hao hao wakiwatetea NAZIs waliowauwa Jews?

 

[mchambawima1]

Bongolander

Exactly! And honestly you are a real Tanzanian or ''perfectlypretended'' (the true sons of Nyerere (RIP) who I mentioned in some of myposts) myself I was born and raised in Tanzania so If I see one I can easilyIdentify him/her based on the content of character and not by face. So for thatyou deserve explanation about our decision as a country.
Just returned from church and guess what? The service was aboutgood vs evil, a pastor went on giving biblical examples and finally came to Davidvs Goliath, I said Amen in a very strong voice and everybody in a church wasamazed but they didn't know what was in me! Moyoni nilikuwa nafikiria kinaJmali na wafaransa wao ambao hawakomi, wamekimbilia DRC wakamloga Mobutu oohunajeshi kubwa mipesa kibao na sisi tutakuongezea vijana na pesa hebutuwafwate, basi tukawapa kibano na Mobutu tukamtupilia mbali lkn hawakomi sikuhizi wanasema wamekuwa wengi na wako na support ya msanii na wafaransa kamakawaida, hawajui kwamba maadili mabovu ya kumaliza kabila ndio yanawaharibia,sasa mungu aumbe watu alafu we ujifanye Pilato eti uwamalize wote eh jamani,Utashinda vp?
Back to your point, do you accept the fact that nobody isforced to ask for forgiveness on behalf of the Hutus? It is done voluntarily, Iknow this is what Jmali and his fellows united in evil been selling in thisforum.
Personally I know and it is naked truth that bot Tutsi, Hutusand even Twas (who are barely mentioned) died in 94, but my question is inwhich context?
What we don't buyfrom those evil is the suggestion that everybody killed, a match is draw and aball should be taken to the center and start all over, this is absurd! Genocidevictims/survivors should and must be treated differently by any country that mistreatedthem in Rwanda we do just that and nothing will change it! For the case of warvictims we simply say there is no problem everybody can mourn their loved one individuallyjust like other countries do.
Let me stop from here but if you need more xplanation of howwe do things in Rwanda then you're always welcome because you have shown somecivility at least to me.

 

[eliakeem]

What you really mean is: hamtamsikia kwa kuwa atakuwa kapigwa risasi na "majambazi" kama yule prof, kanyongwa hotelini kama patrick karegeya, kapigwa risasi kama Sendashonga, kachinjwa kama rwisereka, au "kapotea" na maiti ikaokotwa majini burundi!

Usiogope hufi.... hamna MTU atakufanya lolote.... mtandao wa PaKa unajulikana... we are watching them closely....

 

[Bongolander]

Exactly! And honestly you are a real Tanzanian or ''perfectlypretended'' (the true sons of Nyerere (RIP) who I mentioned in some of myposts) myself I was born and raised in Tanzania so If I see one I can easilyIdentify him/her based on the content of character and not by face. So for thatyou deserve explanation about our decision as a country.
Just returned from church and guess what? The service was aboutgood vs evil, a pastor went on giving biblical examples and finally came to Davidvs Goliath, I said Amen in a very strong voice and everybody in a church wasamazed but they didn't know what was in me! Moyoni nilikuwa nafikiria kinaJmali na wafaransa wao ambao hawakomi, wamekimbilia DRC wakamloga Mobutu oohunajeshi kubwa mipesa kibao na sisi tutakuongezea vijana na pesa hebutuwafwate, basi tukawapa kibano na Mobutu tukamtupilia mbali lkn hawakomi sikuhizi wanasema wamekuwa wengi na wako na support ya msanii na wafaransa kamakawaida, hawajui kwamba maadili mabovu ya kumaliza kabila ndio yanawaharibia,sasa mungu aumbe watu alafu we ujifanye Pilato eti uwamalize wote eh jamani,Utashinda vp?
Back to your point, do you accept the fact that nobody isforced to ask for forgiveness on behalf of the Hutus? It is done voluntarily, Iknow this is what Jmali and his fellows united in evil been selling in thisforum.
Personally I know and it is naked truth that bot Tutsi, Hutusand even Twas (who are barely mentioned) died in 94, but my question is inwhich context?
What we don't buyfrom those evil is the suggestion that everybody killed, a match is draw and aball should be taken to the center and start all over, this is absurd! Genocidevictims/survivors should and must be treated differently by any country that mistreatedthem in Rwanda we do just that and nothing will change it! For the case of warvictims we simply say there is no problem everybody can mourn their loved one individuallyjust like other countries do.
Let me stop from here but if you need more xplanation of howwe do things in Rwanda then you're always welcome because you have shown somecivility at least to me.

At least you said it openly that Tutsi, Hutus and Twas (and a handful of foreigners ) were killed in Genocide. There are people here who are questioning that fact. In order for killing to be categorized as Genocide, it has to to target one ethnic group, that is why some of us agree that it was genocide outright.

But when we try to equate Hutus to Interhamwe this is where i find it hard to understand. I equally reject the idea of equating PK to tutsis. There are people who think PK is God and is always right. I do believe that this is bad i dea.

And Murakoze be careful when you compare Nazis and jews to Hutus(interhamwe) and Tutsis. If you get the opportunity go to Poland, Ukraine, Romania, Slovakia and other countries in eastern Europe, ask ordinary people'sr views about Holocaust, you will be shocked to hear what the say. To this day i am terrified what i heard and saw. Tragedly extreme views did not come from interahamwes of Europe (skin heads and other racists), they came from ordinary people. So please do not buy what media and politicians want to have you believe, just look at the reality on the ground.

Ndio maana huwa nasema we need to get to the mind of interahamwe and ask them why did they kill people, that way we will find out how did they get the evil mind of murder and hate, and be able to teach them peace and love. This is not what i see being done by Kigali government.

Tell me if a Tutsi can marry a Hutu, or a Hutu can marry a tutsi. Tell me whether watu wanaishi kwa umoja, amani na upendo au woga, utengano na mashaka.

If you read many of my posts, you will see that my cry is on true reconciliation which in my view will result to a long lasting peace. Mtutsi/mhutu/mtwa anatakiwa aishi Rwanda kama anavyoishi kwa amani na wengine Kenya na Tanzania. Economic prosperity alone does not bring long term stability to the country, this is what authorities in Kigali need to know.

 

[Jamaa_Mbishi]

At least you said it openly that Tutsi, Hutus and Twas (and a handful of foreigners ) were killed in Genocide. There are people here who are questioning that fact. In order for killing to be categorized as Genocide, it has to to target one ethnic group, that is why some of us agree that it was genocide outright.

But when we try to equate Hutus to Interhamwe this is where i find it hard to understand. I equally reject the idea of equating PK to tutsis. There are people who think PK is God and is always right. I do believe that this is bad i dea.

And Murakoze be careful when you compare Nazis and jews to Hutus(interhamwe) and Tutsis. If you get the opportunity go to Poland, Ukraine, Romania, Slovakia and other countries in eastern Europe, ask ordinary people'sr views about Holocaust, you will be shocked to hear what the say. To this day i am terrified what i heard and saw. Tragedly extreme views did not come from interahamwes of Europe (skin heads and other racists), they came from ordinary people. So please do not buy what media and politicians want to have you believe, just look at the reality on the ground.

Ndio maana huwa nasema we need to get to the mind of interahamwe and ask them why did they kill people, that way we will find out how did they get the evil mind of murder and hate, and be able to teach them peace and love. This is not what i see being done by Kigali government.

Tell me if a Tutsi can marry a Hutu, or a Hutu can marry a tutsi. Tell me whether watu wanaishi kwa umoja, amani na upendo au woga, utengano na mashaka.

If you read many of my posts, you will see that my cry is on true reconciliation which in my view will result to a long lasting peace. Mtutsi/mhutu/mtwa anatakiwa aishi Rwanda kama anavyoishi kwa amani na wengine Kenya na Tanzania. Economic prosperity alone does not bring long term stability to the country, this is what authorities in Kigali need to know.

Dude, you are deadly on the point. You see, in Rwanda....Kagame has managed to brainwash people by force. I'm saying by force because the majority of Rwandese civilians know Kagame is the enforcer behind genocide but can't say anything because they are scared of being butchered or lost in the open. The majority of Tutsi's force themselves to believe that Kagame is their savior when he's NOT. As a matter of fact, Kagame is the biggest war criminal to date and still lives. Africa does not need criminals like Kagame, we need peace and freedom of speech.