Rwanda - Tanzania Tensions Flare Again

[reandle]

What has Laurent Nkunda got to do with Tanzania? We have so many internal problem why do we want to make Rwanda our problem too?

Jasusi, consider the following highlights!

• Hadi sasa kuna mamia kwa mamia ya thread kwenye hili jukwaa na kila thread ina makumi kwa makumi ya michango! WHY? Because every topic itakuwa na thread yake na kila thread itakuwa na michango yako; simple and clear! Every thread will be discussed bila kujali kama ina-highlight problem or success! The Topic and Discussion that bore this thread is about Kagame-JK's relationship and we'll discuss about this and discuss those internal stuff in their respective threads but not here.
• Alternatively, may be I'd agree with you but what you're saying is like telling me to deal with my snoring wife instead of walevi wanaopiga kelele kwa vigoma vyao huko nje wakati ninachotaka mimi ni kulala coz' it's late night and am supposed to wake up early next day!

 

[MUKAMASIMBA]

NasDaz Mbona story nyingi? mimi nakwambia pk alichaguliwa na wananchi wake marambili na observers wote walikuwepo na walikubaliana na matokeo hayo,sasa wewe mzunguko wa nini bwana.

 

[jMali]

Just be honest ogah...hivi Kuna tatizo gani serious btn these 2 countries au ni ushabiki tuu na agenda za siri za baadhi ya wachangiaji humu?

Hilo ndio swali ulitakiwa kujiuliza, kuna tatizo gani kwa Twagiramungu, karegeya etc kuongea na Tanzania?

 

[Ukana Shilungo]

Kagame hamalizi kutawala rwanda utawala wake utaangushwa,ni vempire anatawala kwa mkono wa chuma,katka mauaji ya kimbali alitakiwa awe mshitakiwa no moja,ndio maana alionekana kuchukia na kutengeneza mtandao wa kumuua mwanasheria Juan Mwakyusa,ambaye alitaka kagame ashitakiwe kama mshitakiwa no moja!

 

[jMali]

Ni kweli naona MAGAMBA wanafanikiwa sana katika haka kamchezo,uchaguzi unakaribia.

kwani hizi fitna kaanza nani, si nyinyi ndio mmeanza kutuchagulia marafiki? magamba wameingiaje hapa? Tanzania ni moja, sio kama Rwanda. Ukituchokoza utashangaa magamba yanaungana na chadema zote za vyumbani mpaka sebuleni, CUF, NCCR, mpaka saccos na vikoba kudadadeki! Tunawachapa halafu tunaendela na fitna zetu za ndani kama kawa.
Sasa utakachoshangaa ni sapoti tutakayopata huko kwenu toka kwa majority!

 

[MUKAMASIMBA]

Ndugu! achanikueleze ushauri sio mbaya hata sikumoja,lakini ushauri wa kikwete ulikua wakinafiki,kwani ilikua inajulikana kikwete anashirikiana na FDLR kwa hali na mali hata kabla ya kumpa ushauri,sasa baada ya kugundua kwamba kigali ilikua ikifahamu nyenendo zake na FDLR ndio ikabidi alianzishe ili ionekane kwamba kigali ndio wabaya,kwani alijua kigali haiwezi ongea na wauaji.
Kitu kingine kinacho endelea humu jf ni kama kwamba tanzania ina haki ya kuingilia politics za rwanda,siyo haki hata kidogo kwakweli mambo anayofanya kikwete watanzania inabidi kumuliza kwani yataleta matatizo kwa watanzania na wanyarwanda,kwa mfano pk akimshauri jk(ccm) kuongea na CHADEMA na ikibidi wagawane madaraka na inajulikana CCM kukaa madarakani ni mabavu tu na wizi mtupu,wewe unafikiri jk atamjibu vipi pk? mimi jibu ninalo atamjibu mind your business,na mimi na conclude jk mind your business,kwani wahenga walisema mkuki kwa nguruwe..kwa binadamu uchungu.

 

[MUKAMASIMBA]

kwani hizi fitna kaanza nani, si nyinyi ndio mmeanza kutuchagulia marafiki? magamba wameingiaje hapa? Tanzania ni moja, sio kama Rwanda. Ukituchokoza utashangaa magamba yanaungana na chadema zote za vyumbani mpaka sebuleni, CUF, NCCR, mpaka saccos na vikoba kudadadeki! Tunawachapa halafu tunaendela na fitna zetu za ndani kama kawa.
Sasa utakachoshangaa ni sapoti tutakayopata huko kwenu toka kwa majority!

AHAHAAHAH kuna msemo unao sema adui wa adui yako ni rafiki yako,sasa hapakua na haja tanzania kua adui ya rwanda kwa kuweka urafiki na adui wa rwanda,huo ni ukweli na utabaki kua ukweli,sasa mimi sielewi sababu gani watu wanaendelea ku judge hasira za rwanda dhid ya tabia ya jk,kwani ameamua kua adui wa serikali ya kigali kwa kushirikiana na wapinzani wa kigali.

 

[MUKAMASIMBA]

Kagame hamalizi kutawala rwanda utawala wake utaangushwa,ni vempire anatawala kwa mkono wa chuma,katka mauaji ya kimbali alitakiwa awe mshitakiwa no moja,ndio maana alionekana kuchukia na kutengeneza mtandao wa kumuua mwanasheria Juan Mwakyusa,ambaye alitaka kagame ashitakiwe kama mshitakiwa no moja!

Mbona hamuongei CCM? tokea uhuru iko madarakani na mpaka leo mmeshindwa kuitoa madaerakani,je mnafikiri pk akiondoka RPF itaondoka? na kama mnataka kuondoa chama basi anzeni na CCM.

 

[jMali]

Ndugu! achanikueleze ushauri sio mbaya hata sikumoja,lakini ushauri wa kikwete ulikua wakinafiki,kwani ilikua inajulikana kikwete anashirikiana na FDLR kwa hali na mali hata kabla ya kumpa ushauri,sasa baada ya kugundua kwamba kigali ilikua ikifahamu nyenendo zake na FDLR ndio ikabidi alianzishe ili ionekane kwamba kigali ndio wabaya,kwani alijua kigali haiwezi ongea na wauaji.
Kitu kingine kinacho endelea humu jf ni kama kwamba tanzania ina haki ya kuingilia politics za rwanda,siyo haki hata kidogo kwakweli mambo anayofanya kikwete watanzania inabidi kumuliza kwani yataleta matatizo kwa watanzania na wanyarwanda,kwa mfano pk akimshauri jk(ccm) kuongea na CHADEMA na ikibidi wagawane madaraka na inajulikana CCM kukaa madarakani ni mabavu tu na wizi mtupu,wewe unafikiri jk atamjibu vipi pk? mimi jibu ninalo atamjibu mind your business,na mimi na conclude jk mind your business,kwani wahenga walisema mkuki kwa nguruwe..kwa binadamu uchungu.

1. Ushikiano upi aliofanya kikwete. FLDL is both a political party na vile vile wako armed. Kikwete kama anashirikiana nao basi ni kwa upande wa politics sio jeshi. Nyinyi mnataka jumuiya ya kimataifa isahau kuwa FDLR ni chama cha siasa ndio maana any support hata kama sio ya kijeshi mnataka iwe hivyo ili mpate kisingizio.
Twagiramungu simply said anaunga mkono FDLR, hayo mengine ni nyinyi mnarefusha by implication zenu wenyewe ili mpate sababu ya kumuua.

2. Kama kikwete anasapoti FDLR kijeshi kutaka kupindua serikali ya Rwanda, kwa nini hatusikii malalamiko toka official channels badala yake mnakuja huku JF? Balozi wenu kazi yake nini, wapi press-conference, wapi taarifa UN? Ni kwa sababu HAKUNA chembe ya ushahidi wowote. Mmezoea kuonea wanyarwanda kwa kuwatuhumu bila ushahidi kama Karegeya na kuwaua bila trials mnadhani na huku nako mtafanya hivyo hivyo. kama kuna ushahidi Rwanda inatakiwa iweke hadharani. Nchi ya kiume kama TZ iliweka press conference hadharani na Mwl akasema kila mtu akimsikia "sababu tunayo, uwezo tunao na nia tunayo", hatukuongea kifala ---- tu. Kikwete alitoa ushauri hadharani mbele ya jumuiya yote including wahusikia Museveni na Kagame, lakini f.al.a akajibu eti atatuhit kupitia kavideo ka youtube alipokuwa akihutubia kikundi cha watoto, huu si uf.ala huu?

3. Kama rwanda haiwezi kuongea na 'wauaji' poa tu, haituondolei uhuru wetu kuongea nao.

4. Kama PK atamshauri JK kitu ambacho JK hataki ni kweli anaweza kumuambia mind your business, but "i will wait for you at a certain time and hit you".."ignorant" ....i doubt that.

 

[jMali]

Mbona hamuongei CCM? tokea uhuru iko madarakani na mpaka leo mmeshindwa kuitoa madaerakani,je mnafikiri pk akiondoka RPF itaondoka? na kama mnataka kuondoa chama basi anzeni na CCM.

yale yale, CCM ilichaguliwa toka enzi hizo, haikupindua nchi ya Tanzania toka Uganda!

 

[East African Eagle]

mimi na conclude jk mind your business,

Ku-mind business ni pamoja na kagame kuacha kutoroka rwanda usiku na kwenda kuchungulia usiku vyumba vya watanzania kikiwemo chumba cha Kikwete kuchungulia dirishani kuwa huko chumbani Kikwete yuko na Twagiramungu au nani na wanafanya nini na kuongea nini akome kama kweli anajua maana ya mind your own business kama usemavyo.

 

[jMali]

AHAHAAHAH kuna msemo unao sema adui wa adui yako ni rafiki yako,sasa hapakua na haja tanzania kua adui ya rwanda kwa kuweka urafiki na adui wa rwanda,huo ni ukweli na utabaki kua ukweli,sasa mimi sielewi sababu gani watu wanaendelea ku judge hasira za rwanda dhid ya tabia ya jk,kwani ameamua kua adui wa serikali ya kigali kwa kushirikiana na wapinzani wa kigali.

Tuna haki ya kutofautiana na bado kuendelea kuwa marafiki. Kwa muda mrefu siasa za TZ na kenya zilikuwa zinapingana. Man eats man vs Man eats Nothing. Ulisikia tumepigana? Wapo political exiles kama Kambona etc, waliokimbilia uhamishoni Uingereza na kwingineko ulisikia Nyerere anatishia ku-hit nchi zilizowahifadhi? tulivunja uhusiano?
Misaada yenu mingi inatoka US na western countries, mbona hamuwatishii kwa kuwa wanahifadhi kina Rudasingwa huko? Mbona hamsemi america ni adui wa Rwanda. Mnatutishia sisi ambao tunawasikiliza tu watu wanaokuja na kuondoka zao kama Twagiramungu?
Pili, tambua kuwa Kikwete katika hili ana-enjoy support ya watanzania wote, hautampata mtanzania halisi yoyote anayesapoti msimamo wa kagame/Rwanda wa vita na FDLR vs mazungumzo. Nchi hii sio dictatorship kama Rwanda, Kikwete ana-represent msimamo wa Taifa zima, hivyo acha kufanya swala hili kama ni la kikwete personally.

 

[MUKAMASIMBA]

Tuna haki ya kutofautiana na bado kuendelea kuwa marafiki. Kwa muda mrefu siasa za TZ na kenya zilikuwa zinapingana. Man eats man vs Man eats Nothing. Ulisikia tumepigana? Wapo political exiles kama Kambona etc, waliokimbilia uhamishoni Uingereza na kwingineko ulisikia Nyerere anatishia ku-hit nchi zilizowahifadhi? tulivunja uhusiano?
Misaada yenu mingi inatoka US na western countries, mbona hamuwatishii kwa kuwa wanahifadhi kina Rudasingwa huko? Mbona hamsemi america ni adui wa Rwanda. Mnatutishia sisi ambao tunawasikiliza tu watu wanaokuja na kuondoka zao kama Twagiramungu?
Pili, tambua kuwa Kikwete katika hili ana-enjoy support ya watanzania wote, hautampata mtanzania halisi yoyote anayesapoti msimamo wa kagame/Rwanda wa vita na FDLR vs mazungumzo. Nchi hii sio dictatorship kama Rwanda, Kikwete ana-represent msimamo wa Taifa zima, hivyo acha kufanya swala hili kama ni la kikwete personally.

Ingawa nafahamu fika kua wewe ni mnyarwada acha ni kujibu kama mtanzania,cha kwanza hujajibu hoja yangu unaleta story za kambona sijui USA! ninacho kueleza ni kwamba huwezi chaguliwa rafiki nakubali lakini nawewe inabidi kuangalia ni rafiki gani nachagua,basi kwanini tanzania haina urafiki na ALQUAIDA au alshababu? ni kwasababu wanajua effect yake kutoka USA,sasa kwasababu rwanda ni nchi ndogo basi mnaidharau,wanasema mudharau mwiba.....

 

[MUKAMASIMBA]

Ku-mind business ni pamoja na kagame kuacha kutoroka rwanda usiku na kwenda kuchungulia usiku vyumba vya watanzania kikiwemo chumba cha Kikwete kuchungulia dirishani kuwa huko chumbani Kikwete yuko na Twagiramungu au nani na wanafanya nini na kuongea nini akome kama kweli anajua maana ya mind your own business kama usemavyo.

Huko sio kuingilia business ya jk,kwani moja kwa moja hiyo ni business ya pk kwani inahusu usalama wa rwanda na wanyarwanda,ndio maana USA wakisikia ALQUAIDA imefika sehemu fulani wanatuma watu huko,mimi nauliza pk ana deal na FDLR na hao si watanzania na u deal nao haina effect kwa tanzania.

 

[jMali]

Ingawa nafahamu fika kua wewe ni mnyarwada acha ni kujibu kama mtanzania,cha kwanza hujajibu hoja yangu unaleta story za kambona sijui USA! ninacho kueleza ni kwamba huwezi chaguliwa rafiki nakubali lakini nawewe inabidi kuangalia ni rafiki gani nachagua,basi kwanini tanzania haina urafiki na ALQUAIDA au alshababu? ni kwasababu wanajua effect yake kutoka USA,sasa kwasababu rwanda ni nchi ndogo basi mnaidharau,wanasema mudharau mwiba.....

1 .Ni upumbavu kubishana uraia wangu mtandaoni wakati si mimi au wewe tunaweza kuthibitisha.

2. Narudia tena mbona balozi wenu yuko kimya, Rwanda iko kimya, lakini wewe na fellow inkotanyi humu ndani ndio mnazo hizo taarifa za Tanzania kushirikiana na FDLR kupindua Rwanda. Hudhani kuwa serious allegations kama hizi zinapaswa kutolewa through official channels?

3. Obviously kutembelewa na Twagiramungu au Nyamwasa, Rudasingwa etc, sio tukio zito kiasi cha kuleta uhasama kati ya nchi na nchi. Ndio maana nikakupa mfano kuwa na sisi kama Taifa tulikuwahi kuwa na watu kama Kambona, 'uncle tom' lugakingira tena huyu aliteka ndege, mpaka UK! Lakini haikuwa ishu btn TZ na UK. Lakini kwa kuwa nyinyi ni dictatorship mnataka kila atakayeshirikiana na watu mliopishana nao kuwa na yeye ana malengo yale yale.

 

[reandle]

Mbona story nyingi? mimi nakwambia pk alichaguliwa na wananchi wake marambili na observers wote walikuwepo na walikubaliana na matokeo hayo,sasa wewe mzunguko wa nini bwana.

Na ndio maana nikaamua kukuambia ni kwanini alikwepa kuwa president from the beginning ili apate kukaa madarakani kwa muda mrefu...23 years huku akitaka supporters wake waamini kwamba amekuwa president kuanzia 2003 (kwa kuchaguliwa kama unavyosema wewe) wakati he's de facto ruler since 1994!! And take it from me, anywhere around 2016 towards 2017, Kagame atatengeneza military situation in Rwanda ili asiondoke 2017! Atatengeneza military situation kama vile kuanza vita against opponents kv FDLR ili apate uhalali wa kuendelea kuwapo into power kwa kigezo kwamba the country is under unstable condition so we can't have general election until peace is restored!

 

[murutongore]

Murutongore i may agree with you in certain cases and may not agree with you in others. True colors of a Tanzanian, like me, is that of welcoming people regardless of who they are. And not fueling hate to those who have different looks from us.

Koba anataka kuleta ujinga wa kuwafanya watu waanze kuwa na akili za Bagosora, i am telling you that will never happen in Tanzania, those kind of ideas will not be welcomed. Hapa Tanzania akija mhutu, mtusi, m-ha, m-hima aje tu. Lakini mhutu akija kwa lengo la kutaka kumuua mtanzania eti kwa kuwa anafanana na mtusi, am telling you he will not last. Hata mtu kama Koba akijaribu kuleta mentality ya Bagosora, it is not going to be welcomed. We value humans who respect human dignity, sio kama KOba mwenye akili za Bagosora.

Bongolander, naomba nikuulize kitu na naomba unijibu as i have asked you?

Kwanza tunajua kuwa Twagiramungu is sworn to overthrow the elected government of rwanda. Halafu tunajuwa kuwa makazi yake sio tanzania bali ni ubelgiji! Sawa.. naomba kukuuliza kitu kimoja?

1. Twagiramungu amealikwa na raisi wenu kuja kufanya nini?
2. Hawa akina Rudasingwa who self-exiled himself in the US because of corruption practises when he was the ambassador ambae nae pamoja na akina Kalegeya swore to use any necessary means to overthrow our government wamekuja tanzania kufanya nini...na mind you wamekuja wakifuatana...is that a coincidence? I don't think so.

3. Hivi jirani yako ukianza kumuona anaalika maadui zako kila siku utafanyaje? Halafu anawaingiza kwake usiku usiku lakini kwa umakini wako unagundua? Huyo ni jirani mwema?

Naomba unijibu

 

[murutongore]

Join date 23rd january 2014. Post=1....Mtafungua ID kontena zima mwaka huu!!

Toka huko f.a.l.a wewe hata wewe kuna siku ulijiunga..and overall you have been of no use in this forum.

 

[Talkandtalk]

Join date 28th january 2014, post=1,. Mnajihangaisha tu kufungua ID mbilimbili, hata mkononi hamjai. Tumeshawashtukia. Btw, hiyo misifa yote ni ya kununua toka Racepoint PR company, Ukweli ni kuwa Rwanda ni maskini sana ndio maana kila siku tunatimua wakimbizi haramu maporini kwetu! Pia Rwanda ina wakimbizi zaidi ya 100,000 malawi, zambia, DRC, ulaya, marekani, SA...ukiacha DRC, waliobaki majority ni watutsi!

Rwanda maskini sana, harafu Tanzania tajiri sana, ok!!mkuu hivi kwanini kila anayetoa point ya kutaka kumaliza Hutu-Tutsi conflict unamjibu kwa kufoka, unafaida gani kwenye mgogoro huu,uliouanzisha wewe kwenye thread yako:
Jmali wewe ni nani haswa?nimejaribu kupitia post zako zote hakika wewe sio mTanzania, i swear!
Statement ya I will hit Kagame kaisema wapi, ebu tupatie hiyo link ya youtube nasisi tusikie,tatizo watu wanadandia tu, nakupandisha jazba zisizo nasababu:
Watu kama Jmali wako kazini wanalipwa, na haohao ndio wameongeza hiyo statement ya i will hit him:

 

[murutongore]

Rwanda maskini sana, harafu Tanzania tajiri sana, ok!!mkuu hivi kwanini kila anayetoa point ya kutaka kumaliza Hutu-Tutsi conflict unamjibu kwa kufoka, unafaida gani kwenye mgogoro huu,uliouanzisha wewe kwenye thread yako:
Jmali wewe ni nani haswa?nimejaribu kupitia post zako zote hakika wewe sio mTanzania, i swear!
Statement ya I will hit Kagame kaisema wapi, ebu tupatie hiyo link ya youtube nasisi tusikie,tatizo watu wanadandia tu, nakupandisha jazba zisizo nasababu:
Watu kama Jmali wako kazini wanalipwa, na haohao ndio wameongeza hiyo statement ya i will hit him:

Asante mkuu kwa kuliona hilo...i have been saying this for quite some time. Sio bure, lijamaa lina uchungu na rwanda kuliko wanyarwanda halisi.