Nyerere: Salaam zenu mnaomkejeli!

[Rwebangira]

Daima mtu yeyote anayeshambuliwa na KIRUSI (VIRUS) cha ubinafsi hawezi kuielewa hoja yako ambayo kimsingi ni ya kweli na wazi na katika hali ya kawaida haikutakiwa utumie muda na nafasi kubwa kuyaeleza haya ila kwa kuwa tayari kirusi hiki kimeshika hatamu imekugharimu pole sana. Usichoke ni jukumu la kila mtz kupambana na KIRUSI CHA UBINAFSI kama vile ambavyo Yeye BABA WA TAIFA MWL NYERERE ambavyo hakuchoka.

 

[Waberoya]

Mkandara,

Umeongea hoja za msingi sana. Kuhusu suala la u-dictator, Nyerere ni kweli alikuwa na hiyo element, but he wasn't a dictator per se, kwani hali ya udikteta means "expecting unquestioning obedience", this wasn't always the case; Nyerere hakuwa hivyo wakati wote, waliokuwa wanamwogopa ni wale waliokuwa na unafiki katika Ujamaa, otherwise kulikuwa na watu wanam challenge kwelikweli, and he liked it; Tumesikia mengi sana jinsi gani alivyokuwa anawatembelea wanafunzi wa UDSM mara kwa mara kwenda to debate with them kuhusu mambo mbali mbali ya ndani na nje ya nchi – kina Issa Shivji, Sitta na wengineo walikuwa wanapambana nae kweli kweli; Ugomvi mkubwa wa Mwalimu na UDSM wakati ule, Mh. Sitta akiwa ni mmoja wa vinara wa ugomvi ule, was sera ya kutumikia JKT kwa ulazima; Wengi wakiongozwa na Sitta hawakulitaka hilo; walikuwa na hoja, lakini ukiangalia mantiki ya JKT kwa miaka ile, haikuwa mbaya, kwani nchi nyingi mpaka leo kama Israel, Greece, etc, lazima mtu uende jeshini ikiwa sehemu ya kuwa raia madhubuti zaidi;

At least ninakuelewa sasa vizuri........ulichoandika hapa pro-Nyerere wengi huwa hawataki kusema wala kusikia. Kusema Nyerere alikuwa na element za u-dictator umeongea jabo la msingi sana.

Lengo si kumshusha au kudhihaki...kwenye ukweli tuseme ukweli, pazuri tuseme , pabaya tuseme....we learn from mistakes


Tukiweza kuwasema vibaya viongozi wote bila upendeleo utaona taifa taratibu linabadilika na kuwa na viongozi makini walio tayari kukosolewa....tukiweka wigo wa kutokosoana basi tutakuwa na viongozi malaika. Sina shida kumsifia na kumkosoa Nyerere na sitabadilika kwa hili...ila pro-Nyerere wengi humu wanachojua ni matusi tu!! simply kwa sababu walicheza chipukizi za CCM na gwaride na kushikana mikono na walimu..wengine simply kwa sababu eti waliimba wimbo siku ya uhuru! wanachojua matusi tu...wengi wameishazeeka na kupata magonjwa mabaya...Nashukuru wewe si mmoja wao!

Falsafa za mwalimu na mtizamo wake hata kama ulikuwa na makosa..hatuwezi kuishi kwenye makosa hayo. Nyerere alitambua alishindwa nchi na alikiri wazi na tena akatuusia kuwa tuchukue mazuri yake na tuache mabaya......KITU AMBACHO TAIFA LA TANZANIA LITAJUTA MAISHA YAKE YOTE NA HAPA PIA NITAMTUPIA LAWANA NYERERE NI KUTOMWEKA MRITHI WA CALIBER YAKE! caliber kwa maana visionary, msomi, na ambaye anaweza kuchukua nchi ilivyo akaibadilisha smoothly huku akilinda misingi ya utaifa. Mwinyi hakuwa mrithi sahihi wa Nyerere......hakuwa na legacy, hakuwa na maoni na hakuichukua nchi ilipokuwa na hali yake na kubdalisha mitazamo ya watanzania!

Mwinyi hakufit.....na Nyerere alikaa miaka mingi madarakani aliwaza nini juu ya Mwinyi..?? au aliweka boya ili yeye azidi kuonekana mzuri hata hii leo?? lets be honest viatu vya Nyerere vilikuwa vikubwa sana kumtosha Mwinyi........VIONGOZI WALIOYATARISHWA NA NYERERE WAKO WAPI? AKINA NANI? WAMEFANYA NINI? maana sifa ya kiongozi ni kutengeneza warithi......

Kama kwa wakati huo Nyerere alishindwa kuwa-inspire watu wake wa karibu wawe kama wewe na wakubali kuwa yeye ni mentor wao..then there was something very terrible kwenye tabia ya Nyerere! sitaki kusema kwa sasa


Mwinyi alikuwa kama anaanza taifa jipya kabisa na watu wapya kabisa.......inaonekana Nyerere alikufa tangu 1985! what happened?

 

[Waberoya]

Daima mtu yeyote anayeshambuliwa na KIRUSI (VIRUS) cha ubinafsi hawezi kuielewa hoja yako ambayo kimsingi ni ya kweli na wazi na katika hali ya kawaida haikutakiwa utumie muda na nafasi kubwa kuyaeleza haya ila kwa kuwa tayari kirusi hiki kimeshika hatamu imekugharimu pole sana. Usichoke ni jukumu la kila mtz kupambana na KIRUSI CHA UBINAFSI kama vile ambavyo Yeye BABA WA TAIFA MWL NYERERE ambavyo hakuchoka.

umesema neno zuri, njia gani Nyerere alitumia kupambana na kurusi cha ubinafsi..maana ndiyo human nature, hata wewe unacho mkuu

 

[Brine]

mmh hadi nasinzia mkuu

 

[Barubaru]

Naona htuataki kuelewa au hujaelewa. Swali langu naliweka katika simple way. Kenya na Uganda ambao ni majirani zetu na tunamhusiano makubwa ya kijamii ambazo zilikuwa na free market kuanzia wakati huo zimefanikiwa kiasi gani ili tuweze kusema umasikini wa Tanzania kama zao la ujamaa ni mbaya zaidi ya ule wa Kenya.

Pili, lini nyerere alikataza watu wasilime kwa matrekta. Unakumbuka Azimio la Iringa na Moshi yanasemaje.
Jiulize miaka 25 baada ya Nyerere na 10 baada ya kifo kitu gani kinatuzuia tusiitumie ardhi hiyo ili hali ujamaa umekufa kabisa.

Kuhusu R& D ni nchi ipi inaweza kusema imewkeza sana na imefanikiwa miongoni mwa majirani zetu.

Labda nikudokolee kidogo, Tanzania leo hii ina jeuri ndani ya EAC kwasababu moja, nayo ni heshima ya kusimama kama taifa. Ungekuwepo mwaka 1977 wakati Kenya wanaua EAC na kuzuia kila kitu ungeelewa tunasema nini. Nchi ilikuwa haina kitu chochote.
Mwalimu akaitoa hapo na sasa tunasimama na kuwaambia wakenya hatuwategemei na tunaweza peke yetu.

Changamoto za vita halafu EAC na uchumi wa dunia kwa ujumla ungemkuta mpuuzi taifa hili lisingekuwepo.
Huu ni ukweli hata akina Kikwete wanaukubali ukiwauliza. Bahati nzuri yalitokea wakati wa Baba wa Taifa.

Tuwe na utamaduni wa kumsifia mtu pale anapofanya mema na kumkosoa pale alipoteleza.

Mimi nitamsifia Nyerere kwa kujijenga kisiasa na kuiletea Tanganyika hishma kubwa kisiasa. Lakini tukitazama kwa upande wa Uchumi hapa alifeli kwa asilimia zote. Tatizo kubwa ni kuwa alikuwa haambiliki. Kwa wale wachache wetu ambao tulibahatika kufanya nae kazi watalijua hilo . Kwani kwake siasa ilikuwa mwanzo na taaluma baadae.

Nitawarudisheni Nyuma kidogo. Enzi za Nyerere aliweza ku identify maadui zake nao aliwasema hadharani kuwa walikuwa ni Ujinga, Umasikini na Maradhwi.

Na vile vile aliweka bayana kuwa ili Tanganyika iendelee ilihitaji vitu vinne. yaani Watu, Ardhwi, Siasa safi na Uongozi Bora. Suala la kujiuliza je aliweza kufanikiwa katika vita hivyo hususan katika kuinua uchumi wenu?

Sasa Mlipofikia Tz ni matunda ya misingi mibovu iliyowekwa na muasisi wa uhuru wa Taifa lenu Mwl Nyerere. Mpaka leo watu siasa nyingi sana lakini utendaji mdogo sana.

Poleni sana,

 

[Mchambuzi]

.......inaonekana Nyerere alikufa tangu 1985! what happened?

Kwa uelewa wangu, Nyerere hakumuweka Mwinyi, ni mazingira ya siasa za muungano, kwani kama tunavyofahamu, baada ya hali ya hewa kuchafuka Zanzibar mwaka 1984 na kupelekea Jumbe kujiuzulu, wenzetu wa visiwani walimpitisha Mwinyi kuwa Rais wao, hivyo kumfanya awe among next to the throne, especially given umuhimu wa kuwa na Rais kutokea visiwani kama njia ya kudumisha muungano (ingawa suala la zamu sio la kikatiba). Lakini despite of that, tuliona jinsi gani Mwalimu alimpigania Salim awe next in 1985, lakini siasa za ZNZ zikamshinda Mwalimu; hakuwaburuza Zanzibar, bali aliacha demokrasia ichukue mkondo wake na wafanye maamuzi yao, na ndio Mwinyi akapatikana in the process;

Kuhusu Nyerere and grooming viongozi, nadhani alijaribu kufanya hilo, ingawa with very little outcome; Watu waliokuwa groomed na Mwalimu ni pamoja na Salim, Warioba, Mkapa, Kaduma, Kitine, the list is long, lakini ukiangalia historia, wote hawa sio favorites kwa wengi walio madarakani, na for reasons zisizo na maslahi kwa taifa hili hata kidogo. Aliyefanikiwa kwenda mbali ni Mkapa peke yake, na kwa kubebwa na Nyerere, na wote tuliona how different of a leader Mkapa was/is. Otherwise tangia wakati wa uhai wake Mwalimu, Chama kilikuwa tayari na a distaste with him or anyone who belonged to his school of thought, that's why watu wa Mwalimu walikuwa wanapigwa sana vita, na tukaja gundua kwanini baadae wakati wa msiba wa Azimio La Arusha kule ZNZ mwaka 1992;

Kwa mtazamo wangu finyu pengine, vision ya Nyerere kwa nchi hii was on two things: One, A Self Determination by doing away with muundo wa kikoloni usio kuwa wa haki, kupitia azimio la Arusha, particularly Ujamaa na Kujitegemea; and Two, Muungano wa Tanganyika na Zanzibar chini ya serikali mbili; these are the two main fronts ambazo Nyerere's legacy inapimwa. Kwa mtazamo wangu, none of these ilikuwa ni kwa maslahi yake binafsi; For both Ujamaa and Muungano, the END was justified, but tatizo lilikuwa on the MEANS; and that's how Nyerere's legacy or failure, in my humble opinion, should be examined;
Uzuri mmoja wa Nyerere ni kwamba aliandika sana makala na vitabu, sio baada ya kustaafu but as things happened/transpired – kuanzia anapigania uhuru, baada ya uhuru, baada ya kustaafu – hotuba zake wakati wa kupigania uhuru; vitabu kuanzia TANU NA RAIA (1962), TUJISAHIHISHE (1962),UHURU NA UJAMAA 1968; UHURU NA MAENDELEO 1973; BINADAMU NA MAENDELEO 1974, AFRIKA TODAY AND TOMORROW; UONGOZI WETU NA HATIMA TANZANIA, etc. Watu wanaopata wasaha kumsoma how he perceived and reflected things as they were happening (sio uandishi to reflect what happened after he stepped down in 1985), watamwelewa vizuri sana Mwalimu alikuwa na malengo gani kwa taifa letu, pamoja na mapungufu yake;

Naomba nikuache with a few of his quotes (NYERERE):

Mwaka 1957, Governor Twinning nominated Nyerere kuwa the first member of legislative council (Bunge). Hii ni nafasi ambayo ilikuwa inamezewa mate na wenzake wote wa Mwalimu wakati ule, kwani wengi wao walikuwa wanapigania uhuru ili wafaidi tu yale wanayofaidi watawala wa kikoloni (and Mwalimu wrote about this kwenye kitabu cha TANU na RAIA 1962); wengi wa waliokuwa na Mwalimu hawakuwa nae kuwakomboa wananchi Per Se. Mwalimu aliteuliwa July, 1957 kuwa Mbunge wa kwanza na Governor baada ya kuwasumbua sana wakoloni na harakati zake za ukombozi; Ilipofika December 1957 (four months later), Mwalimu akajiuzulu ubunge kwa maelezo yafuatayo:

****************
"I have given everything that it was in my power to give and what I have given has been rejected. I came to the council expecting a little of the spirit of give and take; That spirit is not there; I would feel that I am cheating the people and cheating my own organization (TANU) if I remained on the council, receiving allowances and attending sundowners as an honorable member, giving the impression that I was still of some service on that council, when in fact I know that I am useless. I had therefore no alternative but to tender my resignation and to ask that my resignation take effect from Friday, 14[SUP]th[/SUP] December, 1957, the day my last compromises were rejected by the government"
JKN, 1957.

*****************

Alipochukua uamuzi huu, wengi wa wenzake 16 ambao walitajwa juzi kwenye kilele cha miaka 50 ya uhuru hawakukubaliana na hilo, walitaka abakie ndani mle ili alete mabadiliko from within, not from nje; Mwalimu akakataa, na akawaelewesha why sio njia sahihi, wakamuelewa na matokeo yake later ikawa uhuru;

Sasa jamani, heshima hii ya baba wa taifa ni questionable kweli?

Kuna hotuba nyingine nyingi za za UN in the 1950s alipoenda kudai uhuru, ambazo zilimpelekea hata JFK ampe heshima ambayo pengine haijawaji tolewa kwa kiongozi yeyote wa Africa na White House (search you tube on Mwalimu Visit to US 1963);

Pia kuna maelezo mengi sana yaliandikwa na westernes on how wenzake wale 16 walikuwa wanaogopa sana msimamo wa Mwalimu kwamba uta back fire, so many abstained, mfano alipotoa tamko in the 1950s, kupiga marufuku Queen Elizabeth kuitwa na kutambulika kama our Queen;

Siku ya uhuru akatoa hotuba kwamba:

"We are celebrating a victory. Yet it is essential that we remember even on that day that what we have won is the right to work for our selves, the right to design and build our own country."
JKN, 1961

*******

Sasa jamani, uhuru maana yake nini, si kujiamulia mambo wenyewe na sera zenu wenyewe? Au uhuru ni kuamuliwa na IMF-WORLDBANK-WTO kama ilivyo leo? Hata wachumi wakubwa wa WorldBank, kina Joseph Stiglitz wamelikemea sana hili in his book titled "Globalization and Its Discontents"; watu wengi wanapinga Ujamaa na kujenga hoja kwamba tungefuata soko huria kama Kenya na Nigeria, je wapo wapi leo? Wengine wanatumia mifano ya Asian Tigers, je wanajua nini kilijiri kule? Ilikuwa ni state led capitalism ya makusudi kuwaziba wale watu nyuso zao from communism ili wasiingie huko; What made Asian Tigers be powerful leo ni Cold War, kule ndio ilikuwa ni battle ground, na waliitumia vizuri sana wenzetu wale;

Baada ya uhuru wa Tanganyika (1961), Mwalimu awawa Waziri mkuu wa kwanza. Angetaka, angeweza kabisa kufanya mambo mengi ya kibinasfi kulivuruga taifa kama kina Mobutu na wengineo, lakini ebu sikia maneno yake haya alipopata tu cheo cha uwaziri mkuu wa Tanganyika:

******
"We have agreed that our nation shall be a nation of free and equal citizens, each person having an equal right and opportunity to develop himself, and contribute to the maximum of his capabilities to the development of our society. We have said that neither race nor tribe, nor religion nor cleverness, nor anything else, could take away from a man, his own rights as an equal member of society. This is what we have now put into practice"

JKN, 1961.

******
Huyu kweli alikuwa mbinafsi na mpenda sifa, hivyo hafai kuitwa baba wa taifa?

Miaka michache baadae baada ya kuona muundo wa kibepari hauna maana kwa 95% ya watanzania ambao walikuwa vijijini, ndipo akapaat wazo la Azimio la Arusha, which was basically a declaration of intent, which implied kwamba, Sasa TANU ilikuwa tayari kwa vita vya all sorts of oppression and exploitation. Azimio la Arusha rose out of increasingly growing awareness of our poverty, weakness and dependence, na hadi leo hatujajikomboa na hayo. Mwalimu alisema hivi in 1967:

*******
"We have been oppressed a great deal, we have been exploited a great deal and we have been disregarded a great deal. It is our weakness that has led to our being oppressed, exploited and disregarded. We now intend to bring about a revolution which will ensure that we are never again victims of these things.

JKN, 1967.

********
Hivi kulikuwa na tatizo gani katika this intention?

Wapo wanaomsema kwamba Nyerere ametuachia misingi mibovu ya uongozi. Ebu tutazame hilo. Mwaka 1973 mwalimu aliweka msingi ambayo ilizaa uadilifu wa viongozi. Mwaka 1973, alipotamka yafuatayo:

****
"At all levels of leadership in TANU we need good and honest men and women. And throughout the party, we need leaders who are good and active socialists, who are able to implement our policies of socialism and self-reliance for the greatest benefit of all the people"

JKN, 1973

****
Hapa ndipo matatizo yalipoanza kwani kwa wenzake wengi, uhuru maana yake ilikuwa kujilimbikizia mali kama wenzao kina Charles Njonjo etc wa Kenya, ambao walikuwa marafiki wakubwa wa baadh ya wenzake Mwalimu katika TANU. Leadership code marked the beginning of Mwalimu kutopata viongozi watekelezaji wa Ujamaa, kwani hata kwenye mashirika ya UMMA, kuna wengine walikuwa wanafanya sabotage tu ili kuonyesha Ujamaa haufanyi kazi,wakishirikiana na mabepari wa ndani na wa nje; Wanaosema Ujamaa was a failure, wapo sahihi lakini wasisahau kuangalia kila kitu kilichochangia that failure.

Suala lingine interesting ni la Ajira:
Mwalimu in the 1960s alikuja na sera ambazo hata EU, USA ndio wanazitumia hadi sasa. Alitamka:

*******
" It is therefore naturally the intention of the government that in the long term, and I want to emphasize the phrase in the long term, the composition of the civil service should broadly reflect that racial pattern of the territory's population as a whole, and thus that the great preponderance of posts should be held by indigenous Africans. Indeed, anything else would be artificial and unhealthy…it will remain the policy of the government that every vacancy arising in the civil service should, if possible, be filled by an appointment made locally and that resource should only be had to recruitment from outside East Africa if no suitable candidate (of any race) can be found locally. That is our first principle. Secondly, within this policy, in the case of new appointments to the service, it is the government's intention That African candidates of Tanganyika should have prior claim to consideration.

JKN, 1968.

******
Kuna ubinafsi gani au upendeleo gani wa Mwalimu hapo?

Angeweza kabisa to ignore this and get away with it. Viongozi waliomfuatia wanalitazamaje suala hili kwa ujumla wake? Mawizarani huko, pamoja na kwamba tuna wataalaum wengi sana wachumi etc miaka ya sasa compared to enzi za Ujamaa, kwenye corridors na board rooms za HAZINA na BOT, wamejaa bado wazungu wa IMF kutuamulia sera zetu za uchumi huko BOT na Hazina. Ndio maana Mwalimu alipata uliza:

Since when does the IMF stand for INTERNATIONAL MINISTRY OF FINANCE?

 

[Mchambuzi]

Mkuu Nyerere kwa alivyoiweka Tanzania anatakiwa awe miongoni mwa founding fathers

where is karume? au Nyerere ni baba wa taifa lipi, Tanzania au Tanganyika ambayo haipo?

Yaani jumla ya Tanganyika na zanzibar inaunda Tanzania yet baba wa taifa atoke tanganyika tu? ndio maana nikaweka founding father..
kwa sababu hiyo ..Huku kwetu visiwani hakuna anayemtambua Nyerere kama baba wa TAIFA. Nimekazania sana logic zaidi kuliko maneno, ila kwao karume sr ndiobaba wa taifa.

Kwa mtazamo wangu, baba wa taifa ina sound vyema kama katika taifa hilo race/kabila ni moja, siyo kwa taifa letu kama hili ambalo tuna makabila na dini nyingi. kwa stability ya taifa tulitakiwa tuwe na founding fathers. Nadhani unasikia kwenye mihadhara na wengine wanasema humu haiwezekani mkatoliki kuwa baba wa taifa!! hii itaendelea tu whether you agree with them or not.


cheers

Suala la udini, ukabila, muungano, na ubaba wa taifa nililielezea sana kwenye my original post; naomba pia nikuuize, hivi je, yule mwanaharakati John Okello mnamzungumziaje katika mazingira ya ubaba wa taifa zanzibar?

 

[Mchambuzi]

Vijiji vya Ujamaa na Ubabe wa Nyerere

These and similar studies suggest that the failure of the Ujamaa scheme was predicated on a number of salient a priori and
empirical factors. Three of these factors are pertinent to this discourse. First is the argument that the initiative to start Ujamaa villages did not come from rural peasants. The scheme failed to gain the necessary ideological
acceptance among the vast majority of the peasantry. Right from the beginning, the dominant attitudes of the people ranged from skepticism and mistrust to outright resentment and opposition (Lofchie, 1978: 452). Secondly, the use of coercion to ensure mass villagization - from threats of forced transportation to short prison sentences under the pretext of tax arrears -
militated against the effective operation of Ujamaa villages. Finally, the efforts at building Ujamaa villages were greatly constrained by bureaucrats who held out government aid as incentives to peasants to move into villages.

The END to Vijiji Vya Ujamaa was justified, tatizo was the MEANS towards that END; how hard is that for you to understand? usisome makala za wazungu kwa jicho la samaki bali la mwewe; ingia kwenye makala zao ukiwa na uelewa wa political economy na historia ya nchi yako kwanza, kwani wao wanaelewa lakini hawahitaji kukuelewesha;

 

[Mkandara]

At least ninakuelewa sasa vizuri........ulichoandika hapa pro-Nyerere wengi huwa hawataki kusema wala kusikia. Kusema Nyerere alikuwa na element za u-dictator umeongea jabo la msingi sana.

Lengo si kumshusha au kudhihaki...kwenye ukweli tuseme ukweli, pazuri tuseme , pabaya tuseme....we learn from mistakes


Tukiweza kuwasema vibaya viongozi wote bila upendeleo utaona taifa taratibu linabadilika na kuwa na viongozi makini walio tayari kukosolewa....tukiweka wigo wa kutokosoana basi tutakuwa na viongozi malaika. Sina shida kumsifia na kumkosoa Nyerere na sitabadilika kwa hili...ila pro-Nyerere wengi humu wanachojua ni matusi tu!! simply kwa sababu walicheza chipukizi za CCM na gwaride na kushikana mikono na walimu..wengine simply kwa sababu eti waliimba wimbo siku ya uhuru! wanachojua matusi tu...wengi wameishazeeka na kupata magonjwa mabaya...Nashukuru wewe si mmoja wao!

Falsafa za mwalimu na mtizamo wake hata kama ulikuwa na makosa..hatuwezi kuishi kwenye makosa hayo. Nyerere alitambua alishindwa nchi na alikiri wazi na tena akatuusia kuwa tuchukue mazuri yake na tuache mabaya......KITU AMBACHO TAIFA LA TANZANIA LITAJUTA MAISHA YAKE YOTE NA HAPA PIA NITAMTUPIA LAWANA NYERERE NI KUTOMWEKA MRITHI WA CALIBER YAKE! caliber kwa maana visionary, msomi, na ambaye anaweza kuchukua nchi ilivyo akaibadilisha smoothly huku akilinda misingi ya utaifa. Mwinyi hakuwa mrithi sahihi wa Nyerere......hakuwa na legacy, hakuwa na maoni na hakuichukua nchi ilipokuwa na hali yake na kubdalisha mitazamo ya watanzania!

Mwinyi hakufit.....na Nyerere alikaa miaka mingi madarakani aliwaza nini juu ya Mwinyi..?? au aliweka boya ili yeye azidi kuonekana mzuri hata hii leo?? lets be honest viatu vya Nyerere vilikuwa vikubwa sana kumtosha Mwinyi........VIONGOZI WALIOYATARISHWA NA NYERERE WAKO WAPI? AKINA NANI? WAMEFANYA NINI? maana sifa ya kiongozi ni kutengeneza warithi......

Kama kwa wakati huo Nyerere alishindwa kuwa-inspire watu wake wa karibu wawe kama wewe na wakubali kuwa yeye ni mentor wao..then there was something very terrible kwenye tabia ya Nyerere! sitaki kusema kwa sasa


Mwinyi alikuwa kama anaanza taifa jipya kabisa na watu wapya kabisa.......inaonekana Nyerere alikufa tangu 1985! what happened?

Mkuu wangu wala hakuna sababu ya kumshusha Nyerere bali ni ukweli ambao hauhusiani kabisa na mapungufu. Mimi nitasema wazi sioni kabisa ubaya wa DIKTETA ikiwa unataka kufuata UJAMAA maana hapa Ujamaa unachukuliwa kama usafiri kulingana na sehemu unayosafiria. Huwezi tumia meli ktk usafiri wa mto, na haya mazingira tulokuwepo ndio wengi wanashindwa kutazama. Hivyo matumizi ya mashua (UJAMAA) was the right idea kabisa kutumia mashua (mtumbwi) na nahodha naye hupiga kasia akiwa nyuma ya watu wote kuongoza mashua tofauti na Ubepari ambao upo ktk bahari kuu matumizi ya Meli ni muhimu na nahodha hashiki usukani wala kupiga kasia..Sisi tulipata Uhuru tukiwa kati na nchi za mwisho na maskini duniani nadhani chini ya Haiti na E. Guinea kama sikosei, hatuwezi kuchukua Ubepari ktk hali ile hata kidogo...

Tunachobishana hapa ni kutojali Watu na Mazingira, Kenya waliokuwa koloni walikuwa na viwanda chungu nzima na ndio walitu supply almost everything.. toka mkoloni vitu vyote vilikuwa vinatoka Kenya toka sabuni, nepi hadi blueband.. Tanzania hatukuwa na kitu kabisa sawa na nchi ilikuwa torned na vita vya Uhuru kama Rwanda na tulihitaji Dikteta kwa hali yoyote ile.... Viongozi wa nchi mbili au tatu hawawezi kufuata mfumo mmoja ikiwa mazingira hayalingani hilo napinga hadi kesho..Udikteta sii ktk mapungufu ya mwalimu hata kidogo, Udikteta ndio ulompa sifa zote hizi za uongozi na pengine kuleta pia mapungufu ya Udikteta wake.

Ujamaa ulikuwa suluhisho la usafiri wetu wote tunapiga kasia na nahodha anapiga kasia huku akiielekeza meli tunakokwenda jambo hilo waswahili hawakulipenda walitaka wawe abiria ndani ya meli ambayo nahodha kavaa uniform nyeupe na tepe za mafunzo na tuzo..Haiendi hivyo mkuu wangu. Na nakubaliana sana na wewe ktk URITHI.. Nyerere hakuwa mzazi mzuri ktk kurithisha. Ni uongo tukisema hakuwa na jinsi maana Nyerere alikuwa Dikteta hivyo aliweza kabisa kuchagua mtu wa maana na kumwachia madaraka sio wahuni hawa. Walikuwepo wengi sana toka Zanzibar Kina Abraham Babu, Hassan Moyo, Marehemu Professor Haroub na wengine wengi wasomi badala ya wahuni hawa wote..Maadam nakubali Mwinyi na Mkapa ni matunda ya mwalimu sina sababu ya kupinga kurithisha kwake ndiko kumetupeleka pabaya maana wananchi walimwamini sana.

 

[Ndalama]

Kwanza kabisa mimi sikubaliani na hilo "baba" wa Taifa, huo ni ukatoliki na hutumika kanisani kuwaita wachungaji "baba", kumuita "papa" "baba" mtakatifu.

Hii nchi Nyerere aliikuta ina watu wa imani tofauti na ameondoka ametuwacha watu wa imani tofauti, kwanini mtubambikie vyeo vya kikatoliki na Kikristo? hamuoni kuwa huo ni "udini" wa wazi wazi?

Hakuna "baba" wa Taifa, huo ubaba alipewa na nani na kwa ridhaa ya nani? msitujaze ujinga.

Alaa upo usingizini au? wewe kweli ni great sinker, huna chochote unachowaza zaidi ya udini?

 

[Mchambuzi]

Alaa upo usingizini au? wewe kweli ni great sinker, huna chochote unachowaza zaidi ya udini?

Dada Yetu Faiza yupo, hajalala, ni kwamba tu amegundua kwamba mjadala huu akija na zile picha zake za UDOM, Pantoni jipya la kigamboni, Mlimani City iliyosheheni vitu ambavyo havihitaji watu kupanga foleni, hiyo pekee haitoshi kumpokonya Mwalimu Nyerere, heshima yake ya Baba wa taifa;

 

[Waberoya]

Suala la udini, ukabila, muungano, na ubaba wa taifa nililielezea sana kwenye my original post; naomba pia nikuuize, hivi je, yule mwanaharakati John Okello mnamzungumziaje katika mazingira ya ubaba wa taifa zanzibar?

Okelo mwanaharakati kivipi?? Okelo alifanya mapinduzi ya serikali halali kabisa ya zanzibar?? Mapinduzi yaliyobuniwa kwa ustadi na Nyerere na baadae akamweka Karume ambaye naye alimdindia Nyerere kwa mambo mengi??

JAMANI KWA WALE TUNAOFUATILIA HISTORIA YA TANZANIA TUNAFAHAMU ZANZIBAR ILIPATA UHURU MWAKA 1963 CHINI YA WAZIRI MKUU MOHAMED SHAMTE SASA IWEJE LEO HII TUMSAHAU SHAMTE KIRAHISI TU WAKATI YEYE NDIYE BABA WA TAIFA?

On December 16, 1963, Prime Minister Mohammed Shamte, as the head of the independent and sovereign goverment of Zanzibar, delivered what was to be a historic speech to the United Nations General Assembly in New York.

Hii ndio speech yake;

1963 UN Speech​

Prime Minister Muhammed Shamte Hamad (as Head of Government of the independent and Sovereign State of Zanzibar) delivered the following historic speech on the historic day of 16th December, 1963 to the General Assembly of the United Nations Organization in New York.

Mr. President! It is a very great honour and a very great pleasure for me to be here as Zanzibar's representative at the moment when Zanzibar's application to join the United Nations Organization has been accepted by the General Assembly. Zanzibar's entry to this great Organization is to my mind of special significance, and this is that there is no country so small and so modest in its means that it cannot be represented here in equal terms with the great nations of the world. There are some people who consider this scheme of things to be wrong. But I consider it to be a source of strength to this Organization, and that one that will inspire Zanzibar to use its privileges with a sense of responsibility and dedication to the ideals which prompted the establishment of the United Nations.

To our many friends throughout the world who have done so much in supporting our struggle towards national liberation, to the Decolonization Committee which has contributed so much in speeding up our march to Independence, and to this august Organization of the United Nations to which we owe so much, I would like to convey my country's deep gratitude. To them we continue to look for aid and support in the upliftment of our people so that we may also be able to contribute our humble share towards the solution of the world's problems. To the distinguished delegates in the Security Council and in this General Assembly who paid tributes to the struggle and achievements of my country I would like to convey the sincere gratitude of my delegation. To all those who have sponsored our application, and to all the distinguished delegates who have unanimously voted us into membership of the United Nations, I say: Thank you.

Mr. President. Political problems tend to hit the world headlines, but it is not generally known, for instance, that malaria which a few years ago used to cause as much havoc as any war, is now almost wiped out from Zanzibar, as a result of an intensive joint effort on the part of WHO, UNICIEF and the Government and people of Zanzibar. It is also not known that quietly but determinantly we are trying with the aid of the ILO and FAO to do away with the curse of under-employment. There are many other ways in which individual countries and international organizations have been co-operating with us in solving our problems. We are grateful to them all.

Now that the energies of our people are unleashed by the restoration of our national pride and sovereignty we can look forward with confidence to greater and more comprehensive assistance from every quarter. Zanzibar is one of the smallest nations in terms of population and size to be accepted for membership. This in itself entails sacrifices for Zanzibar, sacrifices which are of little significance to nations of great wealth, but are of very great concern to us of slender means. These sacrifices we are very glad to make. If we are not rich in numbers, in territory, in material wealth we do not count ourselves poor in values of life which are so inestimably more important; and it is because of this that we feel we can contribute, even if only modestly, in the affairs of this Assembly.

We have a long and honourable history and civilization behind us. Like so many of the great peoples of the world our roots are sprung from many different sources, from Africa primarily, but also from Arabia, from the civilization of Asia, Persia, from India and from many others. The Europeans in their great voyages of exploration found succour and sustenance on our shores. And men of many races found rest and stability in our islands from where to organize the exploration and development of Central and Eastern Africa It is due to these roots established over centuries, the mixing of so many cultures, that make us proud of our reputation for moderation and friendliness. While in the modern world we do not intend looking back to our past, it is this tradition on which we intend to build our future.

Zanzibar is a constitutional monarchy founded on liberal and democratic traditions, governed by a Prime Minister and a Cabinet of elected Ministers, with collective responsibility and answerable to a National Assembly elected on the basis of universal adult suffrage. The Fundamental Human Rights to personal liberty and protection against discrimination are entrenched in Zanzibar's Constitution. Our overall aims are peace and progress at home and abroad. The chief object must be to help create a political atmosphere in the world in which man's real enemies of hunger, ignorance and disease can receive full attention so that resources and time are not wasted on fruitless matters of dissension. Zanzibar's general policy is one of benevolent and positive neutrality without discrimination against any country on grounds of race, creed, culture or ideology. It supports all measures of peace in the world on the basis of international cooperation. On the achievement of its independence Zanzibar has freely elected to remain a Member of the Commonwealth of Nations, and it is fitting and pleasurable to pay tribute to the continuing harmonious relations which have obtained between Zanzibar and the United Kingdom. We believe in the Commonwealth as a large number of equal and sovereign states of many peoples and cultures who have voluntarily and democratically joined together and are dedicated to the furtherance of peace, co-operation and prosperity throughout the world.

It is the object of Zanzibar to strengthen the many ties it possesses with both Africa and the East. To this end we subscribe to the principles of the Bandung Declaration of 1955 and of the Charter of the Organization of African Unity framed at Addis Ababa this year. Zanzibar has particularly close relationship with the other territories of East Africa, and it is our intention to continue this in friendship and co-operation, whether inside or out of a form of an East African Federation. In this respect I am particularly glad that Kenya with which Zanzibar has so many close connections is being welcomed into this Assembly at the same time. At this proud moment in our history I may be permitted to quote Shakespeare and say: "We are two lions littered in one day."
Sir, In submitting the application for membership for Zanzibar I have made a solemn declaration in common with that made by other nations represented here today that on behalf of my government I have accepted the obligations contained in the Charter of the United Nations, and have undertaken to fulfil them. This solemn declaration is a very real one for me, and I pray that this indeed will be so, and that Zanzibar in future will honour it to the full.

Thank you, Sir



Sasa kilichotokea mpaka leo kinabaki historia isiyosimuliwa wala kundikwa, ndi kama vile tulivyoambiwa bara letu la giza kana kwamba tulikubaliana ukikuta bara lenye tabia kama ya africa uliite bara la giza. Nyerere aliyakubali mapinduzi, aliyapika, Karume aliichukua nchi...haina nguvu ya kipolisi na kijeshi na Nyerere alimuahidi kumpa msaada wowote wa kijeshi...Mwaka mmoja baadaye Tanganyika na Zanzibar zikaungana kana kwamba muungano ulikuwa priority...katika muungano huu ambao Tanganyika ikafutwa...Nyerere akawa baba wa Taifa!! why not KARUME AU OKELLO kama ulivyoniuliza?? Okello ambae alifanya dada na mama zetu wabakwe na kuua maelfu unawaza aitwe baba wa TAIFA? Yule ambaye pan-africanist Nyerere alimtumia na ku-m-dump?? mtu ambaye historia ya mwisho wa maisha yake na kifo chake inafikirika? yet alileta mapinduzi zanzibar? guys Nyerere was very very smart...


Hakukuwa na sababu ya mapinduzi.....Shamte alifanya kama Nyerere alivyofanya mwaka 1961! peacefully independence! au historia inasema zanzibar ilipata uhuru lini? kwa nini mapinduzi ambayo Nyerere aliya-support?


ipitie pia hii thread
https://www.jamiiforums.com/jukwaa-la-siasa/99568-speech-ya-mohamed-shamte-un-hii-hapa.html

Narudi pale pale labda mumuite Nyerere baba wa Tanganyika ila sio na tanzania..kwani huku Zenj hatutambui hilo achilia mbali kuwa kafir hawezi kuwa baba wa taifa..kwa yeye kuua Tanganyika akavua haki yake ya kuitwa baba wa taifa na anatakiwa awe mmoja wa founding fathers

Kuna vitu huwa havilizimishiki ukijadili na kuwaza na kufikiria na kwazua na kupima na kukusanya taarifa..ila ni rahisi sana kusema na kuita ni baba wa taifa!! my child would ask which one??
​

 

[JokaKuu]

Waberoya,

..kwanini baba wa taifa awe ni Shamte na siyo Sultan Jamshid Bin Abdullah?

..Zanzibar was a Constitutional Monarch kama anavyoeleza bwana Shamte.

..hata walipopindua walisema wamempindua Sultani siyo huyo kibaraka Shamte.

 

[dosama]

Kwanza kabisa mimi sikubaliani na hilo "baba" wa Taifa, huo ni ukatoliki na hutumika kanisani kuwaita wachungaji "baba", kumuita "papa" "baba" mtakatifu.

Hii nchi Nyerere aliikuta ina watu wa imani tofauti na ameondoka ametuwacha watu wa imani tofauti, kwanini mtubambikie vyeo vya kikatoliki na Kikristo? hamuoni kuwa huo ni "udini" wa wazi wazi?

Hakuna "baba" wa Taifa, huo ubaba alipewa na nani na kwa ridhaa ya nani? msitujaze ujinga.

foxy Udini utakuuwa na kama ndo unafundishwa na kitabu chako Kitukufu kwetu katika kitabu kitakatifu tunafundishwa upendo ndo maana hutakuja sikia tuko barabarani tunaandamana yupo mwenye nguvu anatupigania.

Nyerere kuitwa baba wa taifa hajajiita ila kaitwa, hajajiapisha ila kaapishwa. utendaji wake wa kazi ndo umempa sifa hiyo sasa wewe unataka nani aitwe au baba yako?

 

[Mag3]

Waberoya,
..kwanini baba wa taifa awe ni Shamte na siyo Sultan Jamshid Bin Abdullah?
..Zanzibar was a Constitutional Monarch kama anavyoeleza bwana Shamte.
..hata walipopindua walisema wamempindua Sultani siyo huyo kibaraka Shamte.

JokaKuu, nikimnukuu mwanasiasa moja wa Marekani ni kuwa kuliko kujadiliana na watu wengine, ni heri ujadiliane na meza ya kulia chakula, hivyo ndivyo wasomi wetu wengi walivyo.

Sheikh Muhammad Shamte Hamadi alikuwa ni Waziri Mkuu katika serikali iliyoundwa na His Highness Sayyid Jamshid bin Abdullah Al Said, Sultan wa mwisho wa Zanzibar.

Hiyo serikali ilidumu kwa kipindi cha miezi sita tu ikapinduliwa na Field Marshal John Okelo na ni Mwalimu Nyerere ndiye alimpa hifadhi huyo Sultani kabla ya kukimbilia Uingereza.

 

[chama]

Tuwe na utamaduni wa kumsifia mtu pale anapofanya mema na kumkosoa pale alipoteleza.

Mimi nitamsifia Nyerere kwa kujijenga kisiasa na kuiletea Tanganyika hishma kubwa kisiasa. Lakini tukitazama kwa upande wa Uchumi hapa alifeli kwa asilimia zote. Tatizo kubwa ni kuwa alikuwa haambiliki. Kwa wale wachache wetu ambao tulibahatika kufanya nae kazi watalijua hilo . Kwani kwake siasa ilikuwa mwanzo na taaluma baadae.

Nitawarudisheni Nyuma kidogo. Enzi za Nyerere aliweza ku identify maadui zake nao aliwasema hadharani kuwa walikuwa ni Ujinga, Umasikini na Maradhwi.

Na vile vile aliweka bayana kuwa ili Tanganyika iendelee ilihitaji vitu vinne. yaani Watu, Ardhwi, Siasa safi na Uongozi Bora. Suala la kujiuliza je aliweza kufanikiwa katika vita hivyo hususan katika kuinua uchumi wenu?

Sasa Mlipofikia Tz ni matunda ya misingi mibovu iliyowekwa na muasisi wa uhuru wa Taifa lenu Mwl Nyerere. Mpaka leo watu siasa nyingi sana lakini utendaji mdogo sana.

Poleni sana,

Barubaru
Huna haja ya kutupa pole; watanzania tupo na tunaendelea; ungetufundisha nini cha kufanya; hizi pumba unazotuletea hazisaidii kitu
Mwl. Nyerere utakufa naye rohoni; aliyoyafanya yawe mabaya ama mazuri hayatafutika; isitoshe sisi ni watanzania hatujajikana sasa sijui inakuwaje mtu aleyejikana kama wewe kutaka kujadili siasa za Tanzania; labda nikuulize Tanzania tunaweza kujifunza nini kutoka Oman? Kama ni umaskini Oman si matajiri wa kututisha kama ni ombaomba hata nyie ombaomba; kwa hiyo sote tupo kwenye kundi hilo la ombaomba; tuachie hawa viongozi wetu kama mh. Kikwete mbaya tutamjadili sisi kwa mapana na marefu ni kiongozi wetu; labda kama unataka tufungue darsa humu kumjadili Qaboos nadhani wengi watashangaa; uzuri wetu tunaelected leaders hatuna rulers fanya heshima kidogo; Mwl. Nyerere kama aliacha misingi mibaya hiyo siyo kazi kutueleza inawezekana tumeikubali ndiyo sababu hatujaiondoa; pamoja na umaskini wetu watanzania tuna mengi ya kujivunia kama Taifa.

Chama
Gongo la Mboto DSM

 

[Mr.Right]

Mr. Right

Naomba tujudaliane kidogo labda tutaeleweshana; nimekusoma naona kuna kijichanganya kidogo; nimeona umesema wewe ni pro free market economy; mpaka hivi sasa tunapoongea free market economy ipo kwenye vitabu tu ni theory na utekelezaji wake ni mgumu naweza kukupa mfano mwaka huu Lockheed Martins walishinda tenda ya kutengeneza ndege za kujaza mafuta kwa matumizi ya jeshi la Marekani; ilionyesha dhahiri wao tenka zao ni bora na za gharama nafuu ukilinganisha Boeing; mara baada wizara ya ulinzi kuipa Lockheed tenda hiyo Bunge lilingilia kati na kuinyanga`nya Lockheed tenda kwa sababu za kuilinda Boeing kibiashara; ipo mifano mingi serikali ya Marekani imetoa tenda kwa makampuni kadhaa bila kuwepo kwa ushindani wa kibiashara, swali la msingi inakuwaje hapo kwenye free market pia kuna kulindana? Naamini umeshawahi kusikia vitu kama tarrifs, import quarters; hakuna hata nchi moja ya magharibi ambayo haina vitu hivyo je kwa nini wasiruhusu bidhaa zisitoke nchi moja hadi nyingine bila mikingamo? Ukweli hiyo free market wanaoyoihubiri sisi tuifuate wakati wao wenyewe wanaitekeleza kinadharia ; pia hakuna hata nchi moja ya kiafrika yenye uwezo wa kushindana na nchi za magharibi kwenye bidhaa za viwandani, wao walipolenga Afrika tuwe na free market lengo hasa ni kwa makampuni yao kuuza bidhaa zao Afrika.
Kwa nini Mwalimu Nyerere alikazania kilimo? Jibu ni rahisi wakati tunapata uhuru sekta viwanda ilikuwa duni kumbuka waingereza hawakuwa watawala walikuwa ni caretaker; waliwekeza zaidi kwenye makoloni yao kenye; Uganda na kwingineko ni kama vile unapopata jukumu la kumlea mototo wa jirani; mfano Kenya baada ya uhuru ilikuwa na miundo mbinu bora kuliko Tanganyika yote hayo si kuwa Mzee Jomo Kenyatta alifanya kazi ya ziada kuliko Mwl. Nyerere bali alirithi miundo mbinu bora.Kilimo ilikuwa ndio njia pekee ambayo ingeweza kutuokoa kiuchumi; na kutufanya tusiwe na tatizo la ajira; mpaka hivi sasa kilimo kinaajiri zaidi ya 60% za wakazi wa sub sahara Afrika; suala la vijiji vya ujamaa hilo labda nikueleweshe na nina uhakika Mkandara ama Mchambuzi waliligusia wengi walilipinga vijiji vya ujamaa lakini ukweli leo Tanzania imetengamaa kwenye kilimo kwa vijiji vya ujamaa ambavyo Mwalimu Nyerere alivianzisha kama vingekuwa vibaya basi wengi wangerejea kwenye utaratibu wao maisha kabla ya vijiji vya ujamaa.
Umekuwa ukisema eti Mwalimu Nyerere alifeli huo ni mtazamo wako nikiangalia nchi za sub Sahara Afrika Tanzania ya Mwalimu Nyerere ilikuwa bora zaidi ya nchi nyingi sijui kama umewahi kutembelea nchi za kiafrika na hapo ndipo utapoona matunda ya ile sera ya Mwalimu maendeleo mikoani; alijaribu kuhakikisha kila mkoa unakuwa na sera ya maendeleo. Lengo kuu la Mwalimu ilikuwa kuhakikisha tunakuwa ya wakulima na wafanyakazi. Mwalimua alipigwa vita sana na nchi za magharibi kwani alikuwa anahatarisha maslahi yao na hiyo ndiyo iliyopelekea kuhitilifiana na vyombo kama IMF na WB.
Kila mfumo una matatizo yake hata kwenye nchi zilizoendelea kuna matatizo ya mfumo wa kibepari si kila mtu anauafiki; je ni kwanini Taifa kubwa kama Marekani linapigania kuwepo kwa middle class? Kwa nini hawapiganii kila mtu awe milionea? Ama labda nikuulize nchi za kipebari kama Spain na Italy uchumi wao umeanguka kwa kiasi kikubwa ni kipengele gani kilichopo kwenye msahafu wa ubepari ambao hakikufuatwa?
Hili somo ni linahitaji fikra pevu ukirupuka Nyerere Nyerere hutatalielewa; ichukulie JF kama ni uwanja wa kuelemishana na si lazima tukubuliane katika kila jambo ila njoo na hoja.

Chama
Gongo la Mboto DSM

Chama,

Umecdhanganya mambo mengi sana. Umeanza na USA ukaenda mpaka Afrika, baadaye ukaenda mpaka Europe.

Anyway, issue ya market economy kuwa siyo perfect, hiyo kila mtu anajua. Lakini huwezi kuchukua protectionism zinazofanyika sasa hivi ktk kila nchi kublame market economy. Marekani ni nchi iliyofanikiwa sana duniani kwa muda mfupi kuliko nchi yoyote duniani. Marekani ina less than 235 years lakini maendeleo iliyopata ni makubwa sana. Na hiyo credit yote inapewa market economy.

Suala la protectionism. Sasa hivi nchi nyingi duniani zimeangia ktk mfumo huu bila ya kujua core principles za market economy na nchi nyengine zinaignore kwa makusudi, kama vile China. Ndiyo maana unakuta kuna mashindano au mabishano ktk import and export. Marekani walioengeza some tarrif ktk goods kutoka China, na China wakajibu kwa kuongeza import tarrif ktk goods zinazotoka USA. Hii issue ilitokea kwa sababu kuna some products ambazo zinapewa subsidize na government. Kwa hiyo USA waka argue kwamba hiyo ndiyo reason ya kuongeza hizo tarrif ktk Chinese goods. Kumbuka free market inataka market ndiyo idetermined who gets what.

To be honest, sasa hivi nchi nyingi ambazo zilikuwa ktk Ujamaa zimeingia ktk market economy, lakini bado serikali zao ndizo zinatumia hela nyingi ktk kampuni zao. Chukulia Emirates, serikali yao imeorder ndege Boeing nyingi sana, kupita hata mashirika makubwa ya ndege kama AA. Kwa hiyo issue hiyo, ya kuongeza tarrif or so called protectionism itaendendelea kuwepo as long serikali za nchi za former Ujamaa zitaendelea kucontrol hizo kampuni kubwa za biashara.

Unauliza kwa nini Marekani inapigania kuwa na middle class na siyo milionaire? Hiyo issue lazima iwepo ktk market economy. Lazima iwepo different class of citizen in order for market economy to survive. Ujamaa unapozungumzia fairness unamaanisha distribution of wealth. Kila raia awe ktk same level!! Hiyo ndiyo philosophy ya Ujamaa aliyokuwa anaipigania Nyerere. Anataka Ujamaa ili tule chakula kimoja, kuvaa nguo design moja, elimu moja.

Chukulia mfano, elimu iliyopo Marekani, kuna public school, state school, private school, na Ivy league school. Angalia ktk forum kama vile College Confidential demand ya watu wanaotaka kwenda ktk hizo Ivy league. Sasa kama ingekuwa same level usingeona bidiii ya wanafunzi ya kufanya ziada ktk masomo, community services, leadership skills ktk kujaribu kutaka kuingia ktk hizo shule za Ivy.

Ndiyo maana, nimesema Ujamaa umetufanya tuwe wategemezi. Kama tungekuwa na market economy tungekuwa mbali; kwa sababu kila mtu angetaka kufanya vizuri ili areach level fulani ya maisha. By the way, watu wengi wanakuwa millionaire in USA , ni bidii yako tu.

 

[Mchambuzi]

Okelo mwanaharakati kivipi??

Ilikuwa haina haja ya kumtukana Mwalimu kafir, nilitaka tu kujua jinsi gani Okello anatazamwa visiwani, thats all, na nimeshaelewa vizuri sana. Otherwise hoja zenu juu ya mwalimu na matatizo ya muungano zina justification, hakuna anaepinga hilo, lakini ni suala ambalo linajadilika na pande zote kama ndugu; Vinginevyo, kuhusu Ujamaa, Zanzibar never pursued this policy, kwahiyo mjadala wa ujamaa na UBABA WA TAIFA wa Mwalimu, sio hoja huko zanzibar moja kwa moja, ni hoja zaidi ya watu wa upande mwingine wa muungano ambako sera za Ujamaa zilikuwa na direct and immediate effect on wananchi; huko ilikuwa ni matokeo tu; ni hayo tu kwa sasa Mkuu;

Nasimama kusahihishwa;

 

[Mr.Right]

Sio Ujamaa matatizo ni watu. UK nasikia sera ya kijamaaa ya afya. Obama naye kachukua.Ineefficiency yetu iko weye ubong si sera ya ujamaa wala ubepari.

Ni watu wachache au wengi kwenye system ya ujamaa ndio waliukwamisha . kusema hivyo sio kwamba tungekuwa na ubepari tungekuwa na nafuu No. tungekuwa na nafuu ndogo tu tena kwa wachache. Chukulia mfano wa US Vs Norway . kwa sera y ubepari Tanzania ingekuwa na matabaka kuik hata yale ya Kenya

Ndiyo maana Nyerere alichaguliwa ili awaongoze hao watu. Lakini alishindwa. Tatizo letu sisi WTZ ni kwamba hatuna viongozi wazuri wa kuongoza hao Watu. Kama Nyerere angekuwa kiongozi mzuri; basi angeongoza WTZ vizuri na tungekuwa mbali sana. Lakini Mzee Nyerere alishindwa. Matokeo yake, ule mzimu wa viongozi wabovu bado unaendelea kutukumba kila siku.

Nyerere alikuwa kiongozi Mzungumzaji mzuri; lakini utendaji wake ulikuwa ZERO.

 

[Mr.Right]

Naona htuataki kuelewa au hujaelewa. Swali langu naliweka katika simple way. Kenya na Uganda ambao ni majirani zetu na tunamhusiano makubwa ya kijamii ambazo zilikuwa na free market kuanzia wakati huo zimefanikiwa kiasi gani ili tuweze kusema umasikini wa Tanzania kama zao la ujamaa ni mbaya zaidi ya ule wa Kenya.

Pili, lini nyerere alikataza watu wasilime kwa matrekta. Unakumbuka Azimio la Iringa na Moshi yanasemaje.
Jiulize miaka 25 baada ya Nyerere na 10 baada ya kifo kitu gani kinatuzuia tusiitumie ardhi hiyo ili hali ujamaa umekufa kabisa.

Kuhusu R& D ni nchi ipi inaweza kusema imewkeza sana na imefanikiwa miongoni mwa majirani zetu.

Labda nikudokolee kidogo, Tanzania leo hii ina jeuri ndani ya EAC kwasababu moja, nayo ni heshima ya kusimama kama taifa. Ungekuwepo mwaka 1977 wakati Kenya wanaua EAC na kuzuia kila kitu ungeelewa tunasema nini. Nchi ilikuwa haina kitu chochote.
Mwalimu akaitoa hapo na sasa tunasimama na kuwaambia wakenya hatuwategemei na tunaweza peke yetu.

Changamoto za vita halafu EAC na uchumi wa dunia kwa ujumla ungemkuta mpuuzi taifa hili lisingekuwepo.
Huu ni ukweli hata akina Kikwete wanaukubali ukiwauliza. Bahati nzuri yalitokea wakati wa Baba wa Taifa.

Unashindwa kutofautisha oportunity tuliyokuwa nayo sisi TZ ni tofauti sana na Kenya ua Uganda. Like I said before, TZ ipo ktk nafasi nzuri kuliko hizo nchi. TZ tuna location nzuri kuliko Uganda. TZ tuna nafasi nzuri ya kufanya biashara kuliko Kenya. Kwa hiyo opportunity yetu ni kubwa sana, huwezi hata kulinganisha na hizo nchi. Kwa hiyo kucompare hizo nchi na TZ, ni sawa na kucompare mbuzi na ngo'mbe.

Sasa kama tungekuwa na market economy, sisi tungekuwa mbali sana kwa sababu hizo sababu nilizokupa na zenginezo ambazo zitachukua page kuziandika. Uganda hawakuwa nafasi tuliyokuwa nayo sisi. Hawana bandari, ardhi yao ndogo. Kenya wamezungukwa na chi ambazo hazina stable government. Please, dont compare Mbuzi na Ngo'mbe.

Pili- Kufa kwa Ujamaa siyo kwamba ndiyo kila kitu kitabadilika. Unashindwa kuelewa hiyo regime ya Nyerere mpaka leo imebakia madarakani. Pamoja na mabadiliko machache yaliyofanywa ktk kipindi cha Mwinyi, bado msingi kamili wa market economy umepotezwa. Viongozi wengi waliopo madarakani ni matunda ya Mzee Nyerere. Bado society yetu inamawazo ya utegemezi (Ujamaa). Market economy inataka foundation, na hiyo itachukua muda.

Hiyo senctensi ya mwisho naona umechanganya mambo. Unasema 1977 Kenya ilikuwa ina nguvu ikaua EAC. Nchi (TZ) ilikuwa haina kitu chochote. Kwa hiyo unakubali kwamba Nyerere alichemsha alifeli.

Halafu Nyerere akaitoa TZ?? Unashindwa kukubali kwamba kuanzia 1977 na kuendelea Nyerere alianza kupanga exist yake ya kuachia madaraka. Let's be honest.