Nyerere: Salaam zenu mnaomkejeli!

[Mchambuzi]

Mchambuzi,
Unajua mimi huwashangaa sana watu wanaobeza Ujamaa hali wao wenyewe katika maisha yao ni Wajamaa. Na ktk Ujamaa wao wanakubali kabisa kwamba baba zao ni dikteta na wao kama wazazi ni madikteta vile vile. Ndio maisha ya kila Mtanzania mzazi ana sauti kubwa ndani ya familia na kuna sababu ya kuwa hivyo. Sasa kwa nini mzazi asimwache huru mtoto atafute riziki zake maadam kisha zaliwa na atakuwa na maisha yake aachiwe tu atafute maisha!...

Hata wanyama hawafanyi hivyo kuna kipindi cha mzazi kumwachia mwanaye hizi propaganda za nchi za Magharibi ambao kwa miaka zaidi ya 50 wamekuwa vitani hata baada ya Uhuru na wakiishi kwa amri za majeshi leo wanataka kutuambia sisi jinsi ya Kujitawala!. Hawa wazungu walilazimishwa kwenda vitani walilazimishwa kushiriki ktk ujenzi na hata kufanya kazi viwandani kutumikia majeshi yao na hakika mageuzi ya nchi hizi yalitokana na necessity za wakati wao ambao ulikuwa ni vita.

Hivyo Ujamaa ulikuwa na lengo zuri tu, sisi tulipopata Uhuru, asilimia 98 ya wananchi wake walikuwa maskini, middle class yenyewe walikuwa maskini vile vile maana hawakufika hata asilimia 5 na hawakuwa na uwezo wa hata kuendesha maisha yao wenyewe iwe elimu ama afya. Sasa hii nchi sii kama mtoto? na mtoto alitakiwa kulindwa kukuzwa na kufikia mahala anapoweza kujitegemea ndipo unampa uhuru wa kutafuta maisha yake mwenyewe lakini hatukutazama Uhuru wetu kwa jicho hilo bali kwamba sasa mkoloni kaondoka ni wakati wa kugawana utajiri na mamlaka walioacha. Ugonvi mkubwa baina ya Nyerere na viongozi wengi hasa hawa wanaomchukia ilikuwa mgawanyo wa kile mkoloni alichokiacha. Tazama nyumba zote walizokuwa nazo viongozi wetu ni zile za wakoloni.. kati ya mwaka 1961 hadi 1967 viongozi hawa hawa waliotuletea Uhuru ndio walikuwa wa kwanza kwenda kushika nyumba hizo maana hawa waliishi Kariakoo Ilala na Magomeni ghafla wote wamehamia Uzunguni..

Kwa hiyo wasiweke roho juu, Ujamaa ulikuja kwa nia njema kabisa lakini hauweza kufanikiwa kwa sababu sisi wenyewe hakukuwa tayari, tulitegemea kugawana utajiri waloacha mkoloni na haikuwa hivyo. Halafu basi ajabu ya Firaun tumeingia katika Ubepari watu wanawaita Chadema ni chama cha Kibepari?. Heee! itakuwaje dira ya Taifa iwe ya kibepari lakini tunabeza Chadema kama chama cha kibepari?... kwani nchi bado ipo ktk Ujamaa?... watakwambia hapana na hawataki kuusikia kabisa..

Hivyo kuna kushindwa watu kuelewa kwamba tupo ktk Ubepari na kwa kila baya na zuri linalofanyika leo linatokana na Ubepari lakini haina maana tunashindwa kwa sababu ya Ubepari isipokuwa itikadi zetu wenyewe ndizo hazina sera bora zaidi ktk kufikia malengo hayo ndani ya Ubepari lakini Ubepari ni tayari tumeubeba na sidhani kuna chama kinalaani Ubepari - a Socialist party - Hakuna!..Tumeshindwa hata kabla hatujaanza!

Mkandara,

Umeongea hoja za msingi sana. Kuhusu suala la u-dictator, Nyerere ni kweli alikuwa na hiyo element, but he wasn't a dictator per se, kwani hali ya udikteta means "expecting unquestioning obedience", this wasn't always the case; Nyerere hakuwa hivyo wakati wote, waliokuwa wanamwogopa ni wale waliokuwa na unafiki katika Ujamaa, otherwise kulikuwa na watu wanam challenge kwelikweli, and he liked it; Tumesikia mengi sana jinsi gani alivyokuwa anawatembelea wanafunzi wa UDSM mara kwa mara kwenda to debate with them kuhusu mambo mbali mbali ya ndani na nje ya nchi – kina Issa Shivji, Sitta na wengineo walikuwa wanapambana nae kweli kweli; Ugomvi mkubwa wa Mwalimu na UDSM wakati ule, Mh. Sitta akiwa ni mmoja wa vinara wa ugomvi ule, was sera ya kutumikia JKT kwa ulazima; Wengi wakiongozwa na Sitta hawakulitaka hilo; walikuwa na hoja, lakini ukiangalia mantiki ya JKT kwa miaka ile, haikuwa mbaya, kwani nchi nyingi mpaka leo kama Israel, Greece, etc, lazima mtu uende jeshini ikiwa sehemu ya kuwa raia madhubuti zaidi;

Pia kuna nyakati nyingi sana tulisikia jinsi gani Mwalimu alikuwa very democratic katika maamuzi ya Chama – kikubwa ilikuwa usimletee agenda za kuogopa Ujamaa in favor of Ubepari, hapo ilikuwa ni kumtafuta ugomvi; Otherwise demokrasia ndani ya chama, na yeye kukubali mawazo ya wengine ilikuwa ni jambo la kawaida sana, mfano, hata Salim A Salim mwaka 1985, Nyerere alikuwa na uwezo wa kusema liwalo liwe, nimesema yeye ndiye awe mgombea, lakini alishindwa na akaachana na hilo wazo; pia 1995, alimtaka Salim lakini bado hakuweza kufanikiwa kwa hilo; mifano ni mingi sana ndani ya CCM na serikali yake; Na kila alipokuwa anafanya maamuzi against demokrasia alikuwa anatoa maelezo – mfano, uchaguzi nadhani wa mwaka 1965 au 1970, Paul Bomani alianguka Ubunge; alipokuwa anahutubia bunge, akawaambia wabunge na wananchi, nimemteua Bomani kuwa mbunge ingawa wananchi mlimkataa lakini ninamuomba kwani namhitaji kwa hili na lile. Nani ambae anaweza sema kitu kama hiki miaka ya leo?

Wanaposema Nyerere alikuwa aambiliki, ni kweli lakini katika vitu vikuu viwili: Sera ya Ujamaa na Kujitegemea ambapo alikuwa hakubaliani na mawazo yoyote to give in kwa mabepari kwani alitaka itokee only when we are ready to participate on equal grounds; Suala la pili ambapo alikuwa haambiliki ni suala la serikali tatu katika muungano, hilo alipingana nalo mpaka anafariki, and in my opinion, this was one of his blind spots – muungano kuwa na serikali mbili; the idea was very good lakini it was and still is, very very very impractical.

Mkandara, leo hii unaposikia hoja juu ya maamuzi magumu, ukiangalia kwa undani, unaona kabisa kwamba watu wanataka kiongozi mwenye udikteta kidogo, au sio? Mara oh, tazama Kagame, mara ooh, sijui Mkapa angefanya hivi, mara ooh, tunahitaji mtu kama Mh Edward, lakini ukiangala kwa makini, yote hiyo ni ushahidi kwamba to many, elements za udikteta katika uongozi wa nchi kama zetu ni muhimu, ili mradi mhusika anaongoza kwa kuheshimu sheria, utawala wa haki, na kulinda haki za binadamu kwa ujumla wake;

Hoja yako kuhusu wenzetu wazungu na kuingia vitani, that's a very good point; ukiangalia matukio ambayo yanapelekea wao kutuma majeshi yao, maamuzi hayo yanakuwaga on what grounds? Na pia ndio maana hata mataifa yenye demokrasia iliyopitiliza, Rais ana kura ya VETO ili iweze kutumika katika mazingira fulani, especially kama yana maslahi kwa wengi. Kwa kweli Mwalimu hakufanya uamuzi wowote mkubwa kwa maslahi ya wachache au binafsi; angeshindwaje kujilimbikizia au kuweka ndugu zake kwenye madaraka? Watoto wake tulikuwa tunapishana nao barabarani, wengine katika hali kama vile wamerukwa na akili. Hata nyumba ya Msasani, alikopesha NBC kuijenga, lakini mkopo ukamshinda, so akaiuzia serikali ili alipe deni lake NBC; ile nyumba ilirudi serikalini kwa miaka mingi; alikuja kupewa bure miaka ya baadae alipostaafu; na alikuwa anasema always kwamba mimi Ikulu sio kwangu, sina hata raha kukaa katika jumba lile, ndio maana mara nyingi sana alikuwa anaishi msasani hata wakati wa urais wake;

Hoja yako ya viongozi wenzake baada ya uhuru kutaka kukamata alichoacha mkoloni stands very well; ni hawa ambao ndio walianza kushirikiana na mabepari wa nje to undermine Ujamaa; hata mashirika mengine ya umma ilikuwa ni sabotage tu going on, si jingine; WorldBank na wenzao walikuwa wanatokwa sana na mate kutaka hela yao ndiyo iwe yak u-finance projects, parastatals etc, coz that's how they make profit for its shareholders.

Kuhusu ubepari, you are right; mimi kwa mtazamo wangu ambao unaweza kuwa finyu, kinachotakiwa ni maandalizi ya watanzania kuingia katika mfumo huo wakiwa tayari, kwani mageuzi haya yaliwakuta kama vile walikuwa ugoni, na since then wamekuwa wana adjust kwa kudra za mwenyezi mungu; vinginevyo ubepari per se sio mbaya, issue to fair participation;

Hoja yako juu ya viongozi baada ya uhuru kutaka vya mkoloni na pia juu ya 98% ya wananchi walikuwa maskini, tena vijijini, kitu ambacho kilichangia sana Mwalimu kuamua kuja na Sera ya Ujamaa ili kujenga taifa lililo sawa na pia kulipa fadhila kwa wananchi waliopigania nchi yao kutoka makucha ya mkoloni.
On that note, ngoja nikuache with a quote ya Mwalimu from kitabu chake cha TANU NA RAIA (pp.6):

"Wakoloni walipokuwa hapa walipanga mishahara bila ya kujali uwezo wa watu wetu kulipa mishahara hiyo, na bila kuilinganisha mishahara hiyo na mapato ya watu wetu. Lakini wao ilikuwa ni ada yao kufanya hivyo. Serikali ya wageni haiwezi kujali maisha ya raia. Serikali yao ilikuwa ni serikali ya ubwana na ufahari; na walijitimizia ubwana wao na fahari yao, bila kujali uwezo wa watu wetu wa kugharamia ubwana huo na fahari hiyo;

Lakini baadhi yetu tulikuwa hatutambui jambo hilo. Waafrika wengi tulikuwa tumekwisha kusahau kwamba mzigo ule wa ubwana na fahari ni mzito mno na watu wetu hawawezi kuubeba. Kilichokuwa kikituuma ni kwamba ubwana ule na fahari ile wazungu waligawana wenyewe tu, bila kutugawia sisi pia; Baadhi yetu hatukuwa tunadai uhuru ili uwapunguzie watu wetu mzigo huu wa ubwana na fahari, bali tama yetu ilikuwa ni kukalia viti vile vya ubwana na fahari; Tama yetu haikuwa kushika vyeo tu, vilivyokuwa vimeshikwa na wazungu hapo zamani, tulitaka na mishahara pia, iliyokuwa ikifuatana na vyeo hivyo, bila kujali kama watu wetu wanaweza kulipa mishahara hiyo, na bila ya kujali maisha ya watu wetu."

MWL J.K NYERERE< TANU NA RAIA - P.6.

 

[Mchambuzi]

Nyerere alikuwa anataka Taifa lijitegemee, halafu Mkandara na wengineo wanasema Wazungu wanataka kununua bidhaa zetu kwa bei ya chini. Sasa mbona mnajicontradict wenyewe. Kwa nini mnataka kuuza mazao yetu ya Ujamaa kwa West? hao wenye Free Market na advance Technology? Nyerere alikuwa anataka WTZ tujitegemee halafu anataka mazao yetu tuuze kwa nchi za West!! Je Nyerere hakujua hilo? Hapo ndipo ujue kwamba Mwalimu Nyerere hakujua anachokifanya.

Nyerere alijua Mkulima wa Jembe ataweza kucompete na nchi za West zenye Free Market with advance technology? Inaonekana ALISHINDWA kufikiri kwamba kuna Competitive Advantage.

Nyerere alikuwa MZUNGUMZAJI MZURI SANA!! lakini Utendaji wake ni ZERO.

Ndugu yangu, umejichanganya sana; kuna nchi ambayo it can survive without trading na wengine? Pia naomba tufafanulie hilo suala la competitive advantage/comparative advantage, in the context of 1961- 1967 in Tanzania;

Hivi mpaka sasa haumuelewi mkandara kuhusu bei za mazao ya kilimo kuwa chini? do you know anything about a country's terms of trade and how they can improve or deteriorate? do you know anything about bei za mazao vis - a-vis durable manufactured goods in the world market and the issue of price volatility/unpredictability? Kwa mtazamo wako, Sera ya kujitegemea under Mwalimu uliielewaje? kwamba he perceived trade was not a good thing for our economy?

Your statement kwamba "Nyerere alikuwa anataka watanzania tujitegemee halafu anataka mazao yetu tuuze kwa nchi za west, and then you ask je hakujua hilo, na ku suggest mwalimu hakujua anachokifanya, nini point yako hapa?

Inawezekana una point but hapo juu umejichanganya sana, hivyo kupelekea hisia kwamba pengine haujui unachokizungumza;

 

[Eric Cartman]

Naona kama vile watetezi wa Mlm mnakasumba ya kuzani watu wanaompinga wana-ajenda labda pengine kwasabu hiyo ndio motivation ya wengine. Lakini kuna ulazima wa kuangalia nyuma na kujiuliza tumefikije hapa tulipo, hii historia inaanzia wapi. Maana uwezi kusema leo kwanini vigogo hawafungwi wakati katiba mbovu imeanzia kwa mtu mwenye uchu wa kujilinda yeye na kujipa nguvu za ajabu.

Halafu kuna masuala ya social policies za leo na za jana ni kipi watu wamejifunza kutoka jana hili kutorudia kesho. Amna anaesema mwalimu hakuwa mwanadamu kwa hivyo makosa yake yabebeshwe salaba zito zaidi. Hila cha kuangalia je decisions za mwalimu zimezaa matunda gani na hapa ndio baadhi yetu tunaangalia na kum-judge Mlm JKN as a failure.

Uwezi ku-make decisions bila ya kujuwa the final outcome, its the first thing you think off before you invest. Leo hii madhara yote yaliyotekea chini ya mwalimu ni failure and nothing else, hata uongozi wa leo ambao umetayarishwa na mwalimu ni failures that is to say Mlm was a complete failure in many aspects. Hapo ndio pakuanzia kama unamtetea na au unamkataa, inabidi kufikiria kwa namna yake and what he expected from his decision. From there on you make a grown up decisions and mine his he was a failure and what we have is the by-product of his leadership from the current leadership to the sakapoko free-market. To be honest i dont think these leaders have a clue of the free-market.

 

[Mchambuzi]

Mkuu Mchambuzi, nitaanza kwa kukupa pongezi nyingi kwa jitihada zako za kujaribu kuwaelimisha watu ambao kwa kiwango chochote kile naamini hawako tayari kujielimisha. Kuna watu wanakurupuka na kudandia hii hoja bila hata ya kuwa na ustaarabu wa kufuatilia mtiririko wa hoja mbali mbali ambazo tayari zimetolewa.

Ishu hapa si kumpigia debe Mwalimu aitwe Baba wa Taifa, la hasha, tayari anatambulika kama Baba wa Taifa la Tanzania ndani na nje ya nchi yetu. Ishu ni kuwa kuna kampeni maalum chafu za kumbeza Baba wa Taifa, kumkejeli na sasa imefikia kumtukana na bahati mbaya ni kuwa anayedhihakiwa hayupo na hawezi kujitetea.

Swali ambalo wengine wetu tunajiuliza ni kwa nini haya yanatendeka wakati huu ambapo nchi inaelekea kukwama kwa kuwa na viongozi legelege wengi wao wakiwa wezi na walafi. Taifa linaelekea kukwama kwa kukosa uongozi adilifu unaoheshimu na kufuata misingi ya utawala bora pamoja na kujali na kulinda haki za raia wake.

Hebu fikiria, pamoja na uhuru wa maoni kwa nchi kubwa kama Marekani, hii leo hawezi kutokea mtu au kikundi cha watu na kuanza kumdhihaki George Washington kama Father of the Nation. Mathalan, hawezi akatokea Mmarekani na kudai kutomtambua hivyo au kutaka picha yake iondolewe kwenye "basic currency unit yao, dollar."

Fikiria atokee mtu huko Pakistan na kuanza kudai kuwa Mohammad Ali Jinnah si Baba-e-Qaum wao, bila shaka huyo atapondwa mawe hadi afe. Huwezi ukamkejeli A. K. Fazlul Haq kuwa hafai kuitwa Banglar Baagh wa Bangladesh halafu ukaendela kutanua mitaani kama hukufungwa na kuchomwa moto hadharani.

Hapo juu nimetoa mifano kwa kuangalia two extremes katika mifumo lakini hapa Tanzania wanaanza kujitokeza watu kama FaizaFoxy wanamtukana Baba wa Taifa and they get away with it, why ? Jibu ni rahisi sana, hatuna uongozi ! Utawala uliopo unafikiri utakwepa majukumu yake ya Uongozi kwa kumtupia lawama Mwalimu.

Namwambia Kikwete kwamba hapa amenoa na kama kweli maji kayavulia nguo basi ajitose aonje makali yake na aache kabisa kuvitumia vikaragosi vyake. Aseme wazi kuwa kashindwa kuongoza kwa sababu ya Mwalimu Julius Kambarage Nyerere halafu awe tayari kujibu kwa nini pamoja na hilo aliutaka huo Uongozi wa nchi in the first place.

Mag 3,

You made very good points; hivi, tujiulize: Obama, no doubt kwamba aliingia kwenye madaraka kwa kete ya kusema Bush kaharibu uchumi; Mbona hatumii kete hiyo hiyo to re-run/kujipigai debe (kampeni) for 2012? Jibu la swali hilo lies in what you have rightly said hapo juu; Ndugu zetu wa Marekani, next year wana uchaguzi mkuu na hawatampigia Obama kura ya "Ndiyo" au &#8216;hapana" kwa sababu ya Bush, bali kwasababu ya Obama. Kiongozi hapimwi kwa failures za wengine, anapimwa kwa ku identify matatizo yaliyopita (Obama 2008), once akishika madaraka, anapimwa kwa mafanikio ya kurekebisha matatizo yaliyopita, hawezi kurudi tena kule nyuma na kutafuta visingizio vya Bush, kwani jamii itamwambia &#8211; tulikupa dhamana hiyo kwa kugundua hayo, sasa yamekushinda tumpe mwingine au? Obama na timu yake wanajua hilo, kwani wakithubutu tu kusema sijui ni sera za Bush zimetufikisha hapa, their game is over, ni admission of failure and cowardness, and therefore justification ya yeye kupisha mwingine.

 

[Mchambuzi]

To be honest i dont think these leaders have a clue of the free-market.

Neither do inventors of the free market have a clue.

 

[Eric Cartman]

Neither do inventors of the free market have a clue.

Investors have nothing to do with the free-market, its the market which dictates who survives. Therefore the preparations you make before you enter the market is what will dictates your survival, that is the basis of capitalism.

 

[Mag3]

Neither do inventors of the free market have a clue.

Investors have nothing to do with the free-market, its the market which dictates who survives. Therefore the preparations you make before you enter the market is what will dictates your survival, that is the basis of capitalism.

Hii tabia ya kukurupuka ni ugonjwa unaowatafuna Watanzania wengi kuanzia viongozi hadi wananchi wa kawaida bila hata huruma - mtazame huyu, mwenzake anaongelea inventors yeye anakurupuka na investors ! Kaaazi kweli kweli !

 

[Mchambuzi]

Investors have nothing to do with the free-market, its the market which dictates who survives. Therefore the preparations you make before you enter the market is what will dictates your survival, that is the basis of capitalism.

Eric Cartman,

Free Market assumes and requires more or less equal actors, not a few giants and many midgets; Free market doesn't count heads, free market counts dollars; it favors the few rich and powerful and not the miserable many because of their numbers;

Given the intense concentration and monopolization of wealth, power and knowledge in the hands of the few, even a little child can tell that there cant be such thing as free market in Tanzania;

About 80% of the wealth in Tanzania is held by not more than 20% of the population (hata hii namba ni kubwa sana);
About 80% of Tanzanians live under $2 a day;

Sipingani na ubepari na soko huru Per Se, napingana na soko huru holela, lililokuja kwa kuwashtukiza majority of watanzania, bila ya kuwafanyia maandalizi waweze kushiriki on grounds at least fair to many, kwani soko huru liliwakuta ghafla kama vile walikuwa ugoni, na kuwaacha wamechanganyikiwa na wameduwaa mpaka leo; Pamoja na failure za mwalimu za ujamaa, malengo yake yalikuwa kurekebisha hali hiyo ili tuingie katika mfumo wa global capitalism tukiwa tumekomaa, producing what we consume and consume what we produce, na ikibakia ziada, export so that we import things that what we don't have a comparative advantage on; ukoloni made us and left us with a system whereby we produced what we didn't consume and consumed what we didn't produce - na ni janga linaloendelea chini ya ukoloni mamboleo;

 

[Eric Cartman]

Hii tabia ya kukurupuka ni ugonjwa unaowatafuna Watanzania wengi kuanzia viongozi hadi wananchi wa kawaida bila hata huruma - mtazame huyu, mwenzake anaongelea inventors yeye anakurupuka na investors ! Kaaazi kweli kweli !

Matatizo ya kukosa creativity na kuwa na mawazo mgando ya Nyerere where on earth umeona inventor anaweza kuwa na impact yeyote bila ya investors. Even invented government policies to boost economy are dependent of investors or banks putting money sembuse kingine chochote kwenye uzalishaji. Sasa sijui nani kaaazi kati ya mimi na wewe.

 

[Mr.Right]

Ndugu yangu, umejichanganya sana; kuna nchi ambayo it can survive without trading na wengine? Pia naomba tufafanulie hilo suala la competitive advantage/comparative advantage, in the context of 1961- 1967 in Tanzania;

Hivi mpaka sasa haumuelewi mkandara kuhusu bei za mazao ya kilimo kuwa chini? do you know anything about a country's terms of trade and how they can improve or deteriorate? do you know anything about bei za mazao vis - a-vis durable manufactured goods in the world market and the issue of price volatility/unpredictability? Kwa mtazamo wako, Sera ya kujitegemea under Mwalimu uliielewaje? kwamba he perceived trade was not a good thing for our economy?

Your statement kwamba "Nyerere alikuwa anataka watanzania tujitegemee halafu anataka mazao yetu tuuze kwa nchi za west, and then you ask je hakujua hilo, na ku suggest mwalimu hakujua anachokifanya, nini point yako hapa?

Inawezekana una point but hapo juu umejichanganya sana, hivyo kupelekea hisia kwamba pengine haujui unachokizungumza;

Hiyo comperative advantange niliyokuwa nasema ni kuonyesha ni jinsi gani nyinyi Pro-Nyerere mnashindwa kuelewa kwamba Nyerere alishindwa kujua market ya wakulima wake wa jembe wa Ujamaa. Mkandara anasema kwamba West walikataa kununua mazao yetu kwa bei ya chini, lakini gharama zilikuwa kubwa kuliko bei ya mauzo!!

Sasa huoni kwamba Nyerere alifeli ktk hilo? Hivi utawaambiaje WTZ walime halafu washindwe kuuza mazao nje kwa sababu WTZ hatuwezi kuwa ktk same level in efficieny in World Trade?

Unajua tofauti ya kilimo cha jembe na commercial agriculture? Hapo ndipo utaona na utajua kutokujua kwa Nyerere.

Nchi ya Ujamaa haiwezi kuwa ktk same level na nchi yenye Free Market ktk production especially in terms of efficiency.

Hapo ndipo ujue kwamba, Ujamaa wa Nyerere ulikuwa scam kwa WTZ na TZ kwa ujumla.

 

[Mchambuzi]

Hii tabia ya kukurupuka ni ugonjwa unaowatafuna Watanzania wengi kuanzia viongozi hadi wananchi wa kawaida bila hata huruma - mtazame huyu, mwenzake anaongelea inventors yeye anakurupuka na investors ! Kaaazi kweli kweli !

Halafu sikuliona hilo, nilidhania kaongelea investors, ikanichanganya kidogo then nikaona nimjibu tu thinking labda he assumes mimi napingana na investors; asante mag3 for noting that;

 

[Mr.Right]

Mag 3,

You made very good points; hivi, tujiulize: Obama, no doubt kwamba aliingia kwenye madaraka kwa kete ya kusema Bush kaharibu uchumi; Mbona hatumii kete hiyo hiyo to re-run/kujipigai debe (kampeni) for 2012? Jibu la swali hilo lies in what you have rightly said hapo juu; Ndugu zetu wa Marekani, next year wana uchaguzi mkuu na hawatampigia Obama kura ya "Ndiyo" au &#8216;hapana" kwa sababu ya Bush, bali kwasababu ya Obama. Kiongozi hapimwi kwa failures za wengine, anapimwa kwa ku identify matatizo yaliyopita (Obama 2008), once akishika madaraka, anapimwa kwa mafanikio ya kurekebisha matatizo yaliyopita, hawezi kurudi tena kule nyuma na kutafuta visingizio vya Bush, kwani jamii itamwambia &#8211; tulikupa dhamana hiyo kwa kugundua hayo, sasa yamekushinda tumpe mwingine au? Obama na timu yake wanajua hilo, kwani wakithubutu tu kusema sijui ni sera za Bush zimetufikisha hapa, their game is over, ni admission of failure and cowardness, and therefore justification ya yeye kupisha mwingine.

Lakini tofauti kati ya USA na sisi ni kwamba-Nyerere kaweka misingi ambayo mpaka leo inaendelea kutoa viongozi wabovu.

Nyerere alipenda na alitaka fikra zake zidumu milele. Alishindwa kutuekea misngi bora ya nchi. Nyerere alishindwa kutuekea misingi bora ya demokrasia; kwa sababu yeye mwenyewe alikuwa hapendi demokrasia ndiyo maana alikuwa anaitwa "Haambiliki"

Nyerere alipewa madaraka aongoze nchi na si kufanya majaribio. Kajaribu Ujamaa kwa akili zake za kukopi bila ya kujua madhara yake. Matokeo yake- mpaka leo tupo nyuma kimaendeleo.

 

[Eric Cartman]

Eric Cartman,

Free Market assumes and requires more or less equal actors, not a few giants and many midgets; Free market doesn't count heads, free market counts dollars; it favors the few rich and powerful and not the miserable many because of their numbers;

Given the intense concentration and monopolization of wealth, power and knowledge in the hands of the few, even a little child can tell that there cant be such thing as free market in Tanzania;

About 80% of the wealth in Tanzania is held by not more than 20% of the population (hata hii namba ni kubwa sana);
About 80% of Tanzanians live under $2 a day;

Sipingani na ubepari na soko huru Per Se, napingana na soko huru holela, lililokuja kwa kuwashtukiza majority of watanzania, bila ya kuwafanyia maandalizi waweze kushiriki on grounds at least fair to many, kwani soko huru liliwakuta ghafla kama vile walikuwa ugoni, na kuwaacha wamechanganyikiwa na wameduwaa mpaka leo; Pamoja na failure za mwalimu za ujamaa, malengo yake yalikuwa kurekebisha hali hiyo ili tuingie katika mfumo wa global capitalism tukiwa tumekomaa, producing what we consume and consume what we produce, na ikibakia ziada, export so that we import things that what we don't have a comparative advantage on; ukoloni made us and left us with a system whereby we produced what we didn't consume and consumed what we didn't produce - na ni janga linaloendelea chini ya ukoloni mamboleo;

Mimi openly I am an advocate of capitalism na naelewa ina complications nyingi and is bound to create a class structure. Lakini the main issue si kuangalia those who are left behind, the focus is how well you prepare people to take their chances (hapa naongelea elimu, na hali unaiweka vipi hili ku-nurture capitalism ikuwe).

Socialism pekee si nzuri kwanza inaua innovation and in the long term it can not predict 'production efficiency' hii imethibitishwa kote kuliko jaribu socialism either they over produced or under produce, hata leo kwenye capitalism ambapo kuna gov subsidiaries bado kuna tatizo hilo hilo esp la over producing. Huu ndio msingi mkubwa wa wazungu kupinga socialism leo na hata wachina, russia and even cuba kuwa na some sort of the capitalism katika nchi zao.

Yes kuna haja ya kuwa na mixed economy lakini hata hili suala lipo based more on our comparative advantage at moment hili kupata the right balance. But the aim should be to to get where capitalism is our main mode of production, tusichanganye capitalism na class oriented society (not one based on life chances) but rather ambazo zipo based on histrocial perspectives.

 

[Mkandara]

Ndugu yangu, umejichanganya sana; kuna nchi ambayo it can survive without trading na wengine? Pia naomba tufafanulie hilo suala la competitive advantage/comparative advantage, in the context of 1961- 1967 in Tanzania;

Hivi mpaka sasa haumuelewi mkandara kuhusu bei za mazao ya kilimo kuwa chini? do you know anything about a country's terms of trade and how they can improve or deteriorate? do you know anything about bei za mazao vis - a-vis durable manufactured goods in the world market and the issue of price volatility/unpredictability? Kwa mtazamo wako, Sera ya kujitegemea under Mwalimu uliielewaje? kwamba he perceived trade was not a good thing for our economy?

Your statement kwamba "Nyerere alikuwa anataka watanzania tujitegemee halafu anataka mazao yetu tuuze kwa nchi za west, and then you ask je hakujua hilo, na ku suggest mwalimu hakujua anachokifanya, nini point yako hapa?

Inawezekana una point but hapo juu umejichanganya sana, hivyo kupelekea hisia kwamba pengine haujui unachokizungumza;

Unapata tatizo kubwa sana kuzungumzia na watu wasiofahamu maana na ukiwaambia maana ndio unawapoteza kabisa.. Sasa ni lini swala la Invetor likawa swala la utawala na rais?..mara Invetor bila investor haiwezekani yaani wanaunganisha unganisha hoja kuziba matobo waliyoyaacha nyuma..Haya mwingine hajui nchi kujitegemea na kuuza bidhaa nje ni vitu viwili tofauti kabisa, lakini utamsikia akilaani kuwa leo hii Tanzania ni taifa tegemezi la misaada. Mimi nimechoka ingekuwa watu wanaotaka kuufahamu Ujamaa na wapi makosa yalifanyika tungefika mahala lakini haya ya kulaumu tuu ili mradi humpendi mtu fulani inakuwa tena swala la mapenzi ya uzuri ambayo kila mtu ana yake.

 

[Mag3]

bla, blah, blah.....To be honest i dont think these leaders have a clue of the free-market.

Neither do inventors of the free market have a clue.

Investors have nothing to do with the free-market, its the market which dictates who survives. Blah, blah, blah...

Hii tabia ya kukurupuka ni ugonjwa unaowatafuna Watanzania wengi kuanzia viongozi hadi wananchi wa kawaida bila hata huruma - mtazame huyu, mwenzake anaongelea inventors yeye anakurupuka na investors ! Kaaazi kweli kweli !

Matatizo ya kukosa creativity na kuwa na mawazo mgando ya Nyerere where on earth umeona inventor anaweza kuwa na impact yeyote bila ya investors. Blah, blah, blah...

Masikini JF sasa inakuwa kama kokoro, inazoa tu ... creativity my foot, nawaachia wachache wenye uwezo wafuatilie huu mtiririko !

 

[Mr.Right]

Unapata tatizo kubwa sana kuzungumzia na watu wasiofahamu maana na ukiwaambia maana ndio unawapoteza kabisa.. Sasa ni lini swala la Invetor likawa swala la utawala na rais?..mara Invetor bila investor haiwezekani yaani wanaunganisha unganisha hoja kuziba matobo waliyoyaacha nyuma..Haya mwingine hajui nchi kujitegemea na kuuza bidhaa nje ni vitu viwili tofauti kabisa, lakini utamsikia akilaani kuwa leo hii Tanzania ni taifa tegemezi la misaada. Mimi nimechoka ingekuwa watu wanaotaka kuufahamu Ujamaa na wapi makosa yalifanyika tungefika mahala lakini haya ya kulaumu tuu ili mradi humpendi mtu fulani inakuwa tena swala la mapenzi ya uzuri ambayo kila mtu ana yake.

Interesting unapoteza muda kuwazungumzia hao wasiojua. Sikulaumu wewe kwa sababu siyo makosa yako bali ni ya Nyerere. Ulipata elimu ya Nyerere ukasomeshwa kwenye Ujamaa; ukapewa elimu kwamba fikra za Mwenyekiti lazima zidumu hata kama zikiwa zina upungufu.

"Zidumu fikra za Mwenyekiti"

 

[Eric Cartman]

Unapata tatizo kubwa sana kuzungumzia na watu wasiofahamu maana na ukiwaambia maana ndio unawapoteza kabisa.. Sasa ni lini swala la Invetor likawa swala la utawala na rais?..mara Invetor bila investor haiwezekani yaani wanaunganisha unganisha hoja kuziba matobo waliyoyaacha nyuma..Haya mwingine hajui nchi kujitegemea na kuuza bidhaa nje ni vitu viwili tofauti kabisa, lakini utamsikia akilaani kuwa leo hii Tanzania ni taifa tegemezi la misaada. Mimi nimechoka ingekuwa watu wanaotaka kuufahamu Ujamaa na wapi makosa yalifanyika tungefika mahala lakini haya ya kulaumu tuu ili mradi humpendi mtu fulani inakuwa tena swala la mapenzi ya uzuri ambayo kila mtu ana yake.

Sitegemei ya kuwa ni mtu ambae unaeweza kuja na arguments ambazo zipo based on economical backings si ajabu unapayuka tu kama kasuku wewe hata sidhani kama unajua hiyo argument yangu hipo based on what? Sana sana utakachoropoka sijui m-jewish anafanya hivi anapeta hela vipi. Huo upuuzi weka weka huko hapa tunataka sound scientific economic arguments.

Na pumba zako zinajizihirisha openly you 'old reprobate'.

 

[Eric Cartman]

Masikini JF sasa inakuwa kama kokoro, inazoa tu ... creativity my foot, nawaachia wachache wenye uwezo wafuatilie huu mtiririko !

Of-course your foot we pumba mwingine, umaskini ni kufunga mawazo yako yaweze sikilizishwsa unachotaka kusikia wewe dunia haipo kwa ajili ya mtu mmoja but rather with time facts.

 

[Mkandara]

Sitegemei ya kuwa ni mtu ambae unaeweza kuja na arguments ambazo zipo based on economical backings si ajabu unapayuka tu kama kasuku wewe hata sidhani kama unajua hiyo argument yangu hipo based on what? Sana sana utakachoropoka sijui m-jewish anafanya hivi anapeta hela vipi. Huo upuuzi weka weka huko hapa tunataka sound scientific economic arguments.

Na pumba zako zinajizihirisha openly you 'old reprobate'.

Sasa ya M -Jewish yametoka wapi? yaani kama kuna asiyeelewa nadhani wewe umevuka mpaka. Mchambuzi kazungumzia inventor wewe umekuja na Investor ulipobanwa na Mag3 ukabadilisha na kusema Invetor bila investor sijui haiwezekani - inahusiana vipi na mada hii ktk utawala wa Nyerere kama sii kuziba nyufa za makosa ulofanya. Kuna kosa gani ukisema samahani nilidhani ana maana hii?..

 

[Eric Cartman]

Sasa ya M -Jewish yametoka wapi? yaani kama kuna asiyeelewa nadhani wewe umevuka mpaka. Mchambuzi kazungumzia inventor wewe umekuja na Investor ulipobanwa na Mag3 ukabadilisha na kusema Invetor bila investor sijui haiwezekani - inahusiana vipi na mada hii ktk utawala wa Nyerere kama sii kuziba nyufa za makosa ulofanya. Kuna kosa gani ukisema samahani nilidhani ana maana hii?..

Yeah right dint i say you knew non-n you old reprobate let me ask you this; was the question posed as part of the nyerere legacy or on capitalism in general? Halafu ndio utajijua kama wewe ni pumba tupu.