Nyerere: Salaam zenu mnaomkejeli!

[Mchambuzi]

1: Nimwemmbia factors zinazosababisha changing in price ni supply na demand. Yeye akaja na jibu kwamba West walitaka kununua bei ya chini. Nikampa jibu ni efficiency. West wanatumia advanced commercial agriculture with higher technology, halafu Nyerere na Ujamaa anataka kwenda kuuza mazao ya Ujamaa kwenye World Trade? hiyo ni joke ya Nyerere kwamba alishindwa kuelewa kuna competitive around the world especially from nchi za kutoka ktk free market zenye advanced tech. Hiyo ni failure ya kiongozi.

2: Ok wakoloni walitaka kwa "makusudi" tutumie jembe!! is that your rational thought? Blame wakoloni. By the way, Nyerere alichukua uamuzi kwa makusudi kwa njia ya kujaribu idea. Alifikiri yeye ni "Genius" Huwezi kuongoza nchi kwa kujaribu. Na Nyerere alifanya hivyo ili aonekane kama anaejali ya maslahi ya WTZ, lakini alishindwa kujua madhara yake.

3: Do you know what I know? Nyerere alichukua WTZ kwa nguvu na kuwapeleka vijijini kwa makusudi lil waanze kulima. Kuna ushahidi tosha ambao unaonesha jinsi WTZ walivyofanyiwa na kuhamishwa kwa nguvu na sera hizo za Nyerere. Sasa kama Nyerere alikuwa smart, kwa nini aliwapeleka WTZ vijijini bila ya misingi imara ya Kilimo kama vile maji nk?

4: Nyerere alikuwa na choice, alichagua wrong choice-Ujamaa. Sasa kwa nini tusiangalie benefit ambazo tungezipata kama tungechagua njia nyengine.

Unaweza kusema ni Scam. Unajua viongozi wote kama kina Nyerere alikuwa wanajifanya wanapinduzi lakini tabia waliyopata baada ya kuchukua nchi ilikuwa terrible kwa wale waliowachagua. Viongozi wa Ujamaa walikuwa wanapromote haki kwa wote, maisha bora nk. Lakini walipopata hayo madaraka walibadilika na kuwa Madictator wakubwa akiwemo Nyerere. Ndiyo maana nimesema ni scam. Wanapromise halafu wanabadilika.

Kuhusu suala la vijiji vya ujamaa, naomba ukasome kidogo dhana yake nzima, ili utofautishe intention za vijiji vile, utekelezaji, na mapungufu yake, then urudi tuvijadili vyote, otherwise kwa sasa hoja yako kuhusu Ujamaa inasukumwa na kuhadithiwa zaidi;

Kuhusu Nyerere kwamba alikuwa na choice after uhuru - the only choice he had ni kuendeleza muundo ule ule wa kikoloni ambao ulihakikisha Tanzania remains a rural backyard - 95% of tanzania ilikuwa ni vijiji; naomba usome kwenye historia mkoloni alifuata vitu gani Africa...na anatumua mbinu gani kuendelea kuvipata mwaka huu 2011; Otherwise kusema nyerere alikuwa na choice, ilikuwa ni either kuendeleza sera za mkoloni, au kulipa taifa a self determination - kwa mtazamo wako, alikuwa na choice gani?

Unaposema jembe la mkono - nyerere angefanya nini in 1961 alipopokea kilimo cha jembe la mkono? Angewanunulia wakulima wote matrekta? Otherwise alifanya mechanization, irrigation systems etc kwa uwezo wa wakati ule, na data zipo, au nikupe sasahivi kuhusu jinsi gani ali improve sekta ya kilimo ambayo aliipokea ikiwa ni ya jembe la mkono? Miaka ya late 60s to 1970s sekta ya kilimo ili experience tremendous growth, na ndicho kilichojenga viwanda, toa huduma za kijamii etc; hoja yako kuhusu jembe la mkono inapwaya, ipe mashiko zaidi ili tuwe ukurasa mmoja;

This is a quote from you to Mkandara, ipo hapo juu but naomba niiweke tena kwani ina mapungufu sana:
"Nimwemmbia factors zinazosababisha changing in price ni supply na demand. Yeye akaja na jibu kwamba West walitaka kununua bei ya chini. Nikampa jibu ni efficiency. West wanatumia advanced commercial agriculture with higher technology, halafu Nyerere na Ujamaa anataka kwenda kuuza mazao ya Ujamaa kwenye World Trade? hiyo ni joke ya Nyerere kwamba alishindwa kuelewa kuna competitive around the world especially from nchi za kutoka ktk free market zenye advanced tech. Hiyo ni failure ya kiongozi".
Unachokisema hapo juu hakileti maana yoyote, jaribu kukipanga zaidi; otherwise price isn't only determined by supply and demand, that's just the beginning of it;
Mpaka leo hii west wanataka kununua mazao yetu kwa bei ya chini, sijui kwanini unakuwa mzito kumuelewa mkandara - je wajua kwamba condition ya kwanza ya IMF kwa Nyerere in 1984 ili kutoa fedha kwa tanzania was kumlazimisha Mwalimu to devalue the shilling? do u know what devaluation means? it means, make your exports cheaper. Na madhara ya hiyo measure ndio we are paying the price na hela yetu ya madafu mpala leo; Unahitaji ufafanuzi zaidi juu ya hoja ya mkandara kuhusu wakubwa wa nje kulazimisha wanunue bidhaa zetu za mazao kwa bei ya chini? soma kuhusu devaluation and mazao ya kilimo then urudi tujadili;"

Hoja ifuatayo haina mashiko kabisa, nimekuwa naipuuza lakini unairudia ruda sana:
"West wanatumia advanced commercial agriculture with higher technology, halafu Nyerere na Ujamaa anataka kwenda kuuza mazao ya Ujamaa kwenye World Trade?"

Je, hapa una maana west walikuwa wanalima kahawa, mkonge, tumbaku, chai, pareto, na kushindana na sisi under ujamaa kuuza hizi bidhaa soko la dunia?

Ni dhahiri kwamba haujui kabisa unazungumza nini ndugu yangu, yani hata sijui nijibu vipi hii hoja; nina imani wengine watanisaidia;

 

[takashi]

Kwakuwa aliifungia tvz sio? hii akili au matope? kila kitu Nyerere, hata asipohusika! shit

Bado hatujasahau kipindi kile watu wakieka viboksi vya sabuni na makopo ya blubend kwenye madirisha...Jee, hii hakuhusika? Mwenye akili haabudu DİKTETA.

 

[Mkandara]

Bado hatujasahau kipindi kile watu wakieka viboksi vya sabuni na makopo ya blubend kwenye madirisha...Jee, hii hakuhusika? Mwenye akili haabudu DİKTETA.

Mkuu wangu nakuwekea sasa hivi picha za Canada Vancover in the 60s hawa walipata Uhuru lini? utajaza mwenyewe...

 

[Eric Cartman]

Haya yale yale....who did call ur dad useless!... lugha jamani taabu sana turudishe kiswahili iwe lugha ya kufundishia.

he he he he me loose non-n and see no pint in continuation of this. Naendelea na mengine mwalimu adds me non-n or loose me non-n, i still got to sort me issue which adds me stress. Usiku mwema, the idea of a debate in others world is to learn through facts no one is perfect lakini kwa ubishi huu me no longer have time to waste.

By the way read what people are try-n to convey kabla ujakurupuka, me out.

 

[Monstgala]

1: Hiyo siyo point nayoiweka unashindwa kuelewa hata huo Ujamaa. By the way USSR ni communist.

Communism is an extreme form of socialism. We katika mifano yako umetaja "west" unadhani level za ubepari katika mataifa ya west zinalingana? Mfano mfumo wa Marekani compared na Finland? Jibu hoja ya wewe kujichanganya katika comparative advtantage na competitive advantage.Au huelewi?

 

[Mchambuzi]

Mkandara,
Mkiambiwa elimu ya Nyerere imekupotezeni mnabisha. Hapo Mkandara umechemsha, nenda kwenye Textbook, kabla hujapewa lecture.

Sawa, elimu ya Nyerere sisi imetupoteza, Je kwenu nyinyi, Ni elimu ipi ambayo imewaonyesha njia? nimekuwa nawauliza maswali mengi sana lakini mnayakimbia.

 

[Mchambuzi]

Bado hatujasahau kipindi kile watu wakieka viboksi vya sabuni na makopo ya blubend kwenye madirisha...Jee, hii hakuhusika? Mwenye akili haabudu DİKTETA.

Vipi kuhusu hali ya sasa ambayo hao hao, wanayafuata hayo makopo matupu ya blueband na chupa tupu za uhai, kuziokota mitaani wakaziuze ili wapate mlo angalau mmoja kwa siku?

 

[Mchambuzi]

Sasa kama ujamaa wa Nyerere ulifeli huu ubepari wa waliomfatia we unaona umefaulu sana eeh! Yani uchafu na umasikini wa leo Tanzania hii we ndio unaona ni mafanikio? Au unajivunia ubepari wa west? Ndio alifikiria mbali, fikra zake ndio reference ya uadilifu Tz na Africa leo hii...

Swali la msingi sana ambalo kama kawaida watalikwepa, kwani wanajua wakiingia tu kwenye huo mjadala, hawatakuwa na hoja tena; badala yake watakimbia kama Faiza Fox ambae yeye ameshagundua kwamba, unlike ile mijadala ya zamani ya kutubandikia picha za majengo ya UDOM, na pantoni jipya la kigamboni kama ndio mafanikio ya sasa, mikakati yao ya kumfanya mwalimu kwa vizazi vijavyo historia yake ibakie kama ya Kinjeketile au Chief Mkwawa, juhudi zao zimegota; watakuwa wameenda kushauriani na wadhamini wao jinsi gani ya kurudi vitani;

 

[Mkandara]

he he he he me loose non-n and see no pint in continuation of this. Naendelea na mengine mwalimu adds me non-n or loose me non-n, i still got to sort me issue which adds me stress. Usiku mwema, the idea of a debate in others world is to learn through facts no one is perfect lakini kwa ubishi huu me no longer have time to waste.

By the way read what people are try-n to convey kabla ujakurupuka, me out.

It's good dude! I wasn't arguing 'cause only fools will argue for this long! na tatizo hupendi ku learn from mistakes - hata kosa dogo ulofanya - U got Issues bob..

 

[Monstgala]

Haya yale yale....who did call ur dad useless!... lugha jamani taabu sana turudishe kiswahili iwe lugha ya kufundishia.

Heheheh kiswahili nacho tabu huko south park...

land, labour, capital and entrepreneurship its for you to find the order. The whys and how its for you to figure me out, sibi-shanii mimi nonesense good night. By the way matusi si suala la kujivunia and its not somen i'd rather be proud off in the world where there is so much to proud off. Hila if i can call i my own dad a useless individual trust me kwako ni moto.

Alamsiki.

 

[Mchambuzi]

Mkuu wangu nakuwekea sasa hivi picha za Canada Vancover in the 60s hawa walipata Uhuru lini? utajaza mwenyewe...

Mkuu,

Hivi Mr Right anamaanisha nini na hili wakati anakujibu awali?
"West wanatumia advanced commercial agriculture with higher technology, halafu Nyerere na Ujamaa anataka kwenda kuuza mazao ya Ujamaa kwenye World Trade?"

Je ana maana kwamba West na Sisi under Ujamaa, wote tulikuwa tunalima korosho, pareto, katani, kahawa, chai, tumbaku kwa ushindani, kisha kwenda uza soko la dunia? Sijamuelewa; anajichanganya sana na anatoa hoja kinyume kabisa na historia; Nimeomba ufafanuzi, kakimbia kujibu;

 

[Eric Cartman]

It's good dude! I wasn't arguing 'cause only fools will argue for this long! na tatizo hupendi ku learn from mistakes - hata kosa dogo ulofanya - U got Issues bob..

seriously money, there is no inventor without investor in capitalism that's where you get it wrong and trust you cant school me on this, you just dont have the wit. Yeah i might have mistook the word but the reasoning was on the money sir (that's where it eludes ya, or-else you wouldn't be carry-n on this).

Dont get me wrong I'm here to prove nothing, and would like to be proven wrong by facts and non-n else and on this instance 'mmmmh'. Usiku mwema.

 

[takashi]

Swali la msingi sana ambalo kama kawaida watalikwepa, kwani wanajua wakiingia tu kwenye huo mjadala, hawatakuwa na hoja tena; badala yake watakimbia kama Faiza Fox ambae yeye ameshagundua kwamba, unlike ile mijadala ya zamani ya kutubandikia picha za majengo ya UDOM, na pantoni jipya la kigamboni kama ndio mafanikio ya sasa, mikakati yao ya kumfanya mwalimu kwa vizazi vijavyo historia yake ibakie kama ya Kinjeketile au Chief Mkwawa, juhudi zao zimegota; watakuwa wameenda kushauriani na wadhamini wao jinsi gani ya kurudi vitani;

Poleni sana...Historia ya mzee wenu itabaki milele kama historia za watu wengine. Kibaya zaidi ni kwamba Nyerere atakumbukwa kwa kua Dikteta aliyetawala TZ kwa robo karne...

 

[Mr.Right]

Communism is an extreme form of socialism. We katika mifano yako umetaja "west" unadhani level za ubepari katika mataifa ya west zinalingana? Mfano mfumo wa Marekani compared na Finland? Jibu hoja ya wewe kujichanganya katika comparative advtantage na competitive advantage.Au huelewi?

Unashindwa kuelewa hata nchi za West in kina nani? wewe unasema Finland!! Watu wanapozungumzia nchi za West wana maanisha nchi zilizopo ktk group of industrialized nations hiyo Finland haipo.

And then unataka kuweka ktk same level communism na Ujamaa!! kweli aibu. Sikulaumu, elimu ya Nyerere hiyo.

Halafu unashindwa kuelewa tofauti kati ya Comperative advantage na competitive advantage.

Ngoja nikupe definition yake maana ktk elimu uliyopata ya Ujamaa hamna kitu kinachoitwa comparative advantage.

Competitive advantange- Competitive advantage theory suggests that states and businesses should pursue policies that create high-quality goods to sell at high prices in the market.

Comparative advantage-the law of comparative advantage says that two countries (or other kinds of parties, such as individuals or firms thereas) will both gain from trade if, in the absence of trade, they have different relative costs for producing the same goods.

Hukuwahi kuvisoma hivi vitu kwa sababu ulisoma ktk Ujamaa. Lol!!

 

[takashi]

Vipi kuhusu hali ya sasa ambayo hao hao, wanayafuata hayo makopo matupu ya blueband na chupa tupu za uhai, kuziokota mitaani wakaziuze ili wapate mlo angalau mmoja kwa siku?

Nyerere ndio chanzo cha umasikini wa tz...

 

[Mr.Right]

Hoja ifuatayo haina mashiko kabisa, nimekuwa naipuuza lakini unairudia ruda sana:
"West wanatumia advanced commercial agriculture with higher technology, halafu Nyerere na Ujamaa anataka kwenda kuuza mazao ya Ujamaa kwenye World Trade?"

Je, hapa una maana west walikuwa wanalima kahawa, mkonge, tumbaku, chai, pareto, na kushindana na sisi under ujamaa kuuza hizi bidhaa soko la dunia?

Ni dhahiri kwamba haujui kabisa unazungumza nini ndugu yangu, yani hata sijui nijibu vipi hii hoja; nina imani wengine watanisaidia;

Unachanganya mambo.

Hiyo hoja nilikuwa namjibu mwenzako Pro-Nyerere.

Nilikuwa namwambia kwamba Nyerere alitegemea Jembe la mkono litaweza kushindana ktk kuuza bidhaa na nchi zenye kutumia commercial agriculture. Point ninayoiweka ni Efficiency. Ujamaa hauna efficiency. Mazao kutoka ktk nchi zenye kutumia jembe la mkono hayauziki kwa bei rahisi kwa sababu hamna techno- ndiyo maana gharama zake zinakuwa kubwa.

 

[Mchambuzi]

Nyerere ndio chanzo cha umasikini wa tz...

Ukikaa na mwekezaji au mtu wa WorldBank/IMF, ukamwambia hayo, atakuona una akili sana; tafuta siku na nafasi ujaribu hilo; vinginevyo hapa sana sana tutaheshimu tu uhuru wako wa mawazo, as long as hoja zetu juu ya hilo tumeshazitoa;

 

[Mr.Right]

Mkuu,

Hivi Mr Right anamaanisha nini na hili wakati anakujibu awali?
"West wanatumia advanced commercial agriculture with higher technology, halafu Nyerere na Ujamaa anataka kwenda kuuza mazao ya Ujamaa kwenye World Trade?"

Je ana maana kwamba West na Sisi under Ujamaa, wote tulikuwa tunalima korosho, pareto, katani, kahawa, chai, tumbaku kwa ushindani, kisha kwenda uza soko la dunia? Sijamuelewa; anajichanganya sana na anatoa hoja kinyume kabisa na historia; Nimeomba ufafanuzi, kakimbia kujibu;

Unashindwa kuelewa kwa sababu umeamua kufanya hivyo ili ubadilishe hoja ya msingi; ambayo wewe na wenzako Pro-Nyerere mnaikimbia- nayo ni Efficiency.

Ujamaa haukuwa na effeciency ndiyo maana West walikataa kununua mazao. Lakini mnashindwa kuelewa vitu vya msingi vilivyosababisha hayo mazao kutaka kununuliwa kwa bei rahisi.
As Wajamaa mtaendelea kulaumu, na kusema wengine hawajui, lakini hiyo tactic ya Wajamaa haikuanza leo. hata Mzee Nyerere alikuwa nayo.

By the way unashindwa kuelewa kwa sababu unajump kwenye hoja nyengine bila ya kuanzia kwenye post za mwanzo.

 

[Monstgala]

Mkuu,

Hivi Mr Right anamaanisha nini na hili wakati anakujibu awali?
"West wanatumia advanced commercial agriculture with higher technology, halafu Nyerere na Ujamaa anataka kwenda kuuza mazao ya Ujamaa kwenye World Trade?"

Je ana maana kwamba West na Sisi under Ujamaa, wote tulikuwa tunalima korosho, pareto, katani, kahawa, chai, tumbaku kwa ushindani, kisha kwenda uza soko la dunia? Sijamuelewa; anajichanganya sana na anatoa hoja kinyume kabisa na historia; Nimeomba ufafanuzi, kakimbia kujibu;

Huyu nimempa mfano wa Ivory Coast na zao la cocoa na kwamba Africa inaproduce 69% ya cocoa yote duniani wala hata haelewi... ameng'ang'ania "advanced commercial agriculture with higher technology". Kijana advanced tech ina mipaka yake ama sivyo gharama zinakuwa kubwa kuliko output. Kaanzishe kilimo cha migomba Alaska na "advanced commercial agriculture with higher technology" uone moto wake. Sheria za uchumi ni kwamba kila nchi itafaidka kwa ku-specialize katika bidhaa ambayo ina comparative advantage, na iuze bidhaa hizo kwa nchi nyingine. Huelewi nini??

 

[Mchambuzi]

Unachanganya mambo.

Hiyo hoja nilikuwa namjibu mwenzako Pro-Nyerere.

Nilikuwa namwambia kwamba Nyerere alitegemea Jembe la mkono litaweza kushindana ktk kuuza bidhaa na nchi zenye kutumia commercial agriculture. Point ninayoiweka ni Efficiency. Ujamaa hauna efficiency. Mazao kutoka ktk nchi zenye kutumia jembe la mkono hayauziki kwa bei rahisi kwa sababu hamna techno- ndiyo maana gharama zake zinakuwa kubwa.

Kwa maandishi yale kwenye quote, bado haukuwa sahihi; mbali na hayo, nani alikuwa kwenye commercial agriculture in Africa wakati ule to enjoy that efficiency? nitajie nchi yoyote ya Africa in the 1960s and 1970s and tell me jinsi gani Mwafrika alishiriki na kufaidika na hiyo efficient system iliyokuwa commercial based; kwa kukusaidia tu, jibu ni hakuna, kwani suala hilo lilikuwepo only in countries which had settler economy - nchi ambazo wakoloni waligoma kuondoka na kulowea, mifano ni Kenya, Zimbabwe, South Africa; But do you know who owned the means of production (land) huko? mtu mweusi au mweupe? weusi walikuwa ni vibarua tu;ukiwa unatoa hoja, uwe unaangalia mambo from a historical context;