MWINYI Was A Visionary Leader

[Kilbark]

Wakati wa Mwinyi ndio kulikuwa na migomo mikubwa mikubwa, Wakati wa Mwinyi madaktari waligoma pamoja na wauguzi yeye akaenda kucheza kwasakwasa ya Kanda Bongo Man, wakati wa Mwinyi ndipo wafanyabiashara walipoifanya Ikulu kama gulio, wakati wa Mwinyi ndipo chembe chembe za sectarian violence na udini zilipojidhihirisha wazi ni yeye aliyeipigania sana hii hoja ya udini kama turufu ya kumpinga baba wa taifa, wakati wa Mwinyi nchi ilikuwa haikusanyi kodi , wakati wa Mwinyi ndipo nchi ilitaka kugawanyika, wakati wa Mwinyi ambapo hata Waziri Mkuu na mawaziri walikuwa hawawajibishwi ipasavyo, wakati wa Mwinyi ndipo tulipoona Tanzania inashuka kimaadili, Wakati wa Mwinyi ndipo tulipoanza kuona ulanguzi, wakati wa Mwinyi msomi hakuwa na maana zaidi ya mfanyabiashara, wakati wa Mwinyi ndipo tulipojua kuwa yeye ni fataki kwa kuoa binti wa Jangwani.........Listi haiishii hapo. Huwezi ukamsifia Mwinyi na wenye akili wakakusikiliza kimsingi Mwinyi hakuwa na guts alikuwa mdhaifu , mdini mwenye kuupiga vita Ukristo. Na ndio yeye aliyemtoa Muungwana kwenye jua kali ndio maana anamuheshimu kwa sababu ya Udini wake na sio utendaji wake. Tukubali tukatae.

 

[Zakumi]

Zakumi,
' Hii ya Mwinyi kupinga Tanzania kuwa na multiparty mbona imo kwenye hotuba yake ya February 1992 wakati CCM ilipoanza mjadala huo? It was Mwalimu who put the nail in the coffin of one party system and you should have listened to the debate that followed the whole day on Radio Tanzania. You are right that Mwalimu had become a convert of multipartism much earlier after being disappointed by CCM's performance.

Jasusi:

Mwinyi aliteua tume ya Nyalali 1991. Na yeye kukubali mapendekezo ya tume ni kitu kizuri japokuwa mapendekezo ya tume yalikuwa kinyume na mtazamo wake au ule wa 80% ya watanzania.

Hiyo hotuba za February 1992 nazikumbuka kwa sababu nilibeba viti. Lakini katika hotuba hizo ilikuwa ni michango yao kama viongozi.

Vilevile tusiendelee kujadiliana hapa kama vile Nyerere na Mwinyi walikuwa maadui wakubwa kisiasa. Maana kuna vijana wanatumia JF kama source ya elimu na kutafsiri vitu ovyo ovyo.

Katika hotuba moja Nyerere alikubali kuwa vya CC na NEC ngazi ya taifa walikuwa na hot and serious discussions. Lakini baada ya discussions walishikana mikono.

 

[Zakumi]

Zakumi ni MWAMINI mambo kwa juu juu sana.

Mbona juzi tu hapa tumemsikia Kikwete akilaani SMS na kumbe kuna uwezekano mkubwa sana kuwa anafahamu ni nani alikuwa akiziandaa? Kubadili KATIBA pia hakusema yeye ila alikuwa akiwatumia Wazee wa Dar. Wakisema kitu yeye kakaa kimya.

Pa kuwatuma UWT inaweza kuwa na maana hiyohiyo ya kuwatuma MAWAZIRI maana wengi wao ni hao ma EX-UWT. Kama Mwinyi aifikia kutuma watu kuuuliza kwanini JKN anataka Vyama vingi, sidhani kama Mwinyi alikuwa na RAHA sana moyoni hadi akataka kujua zaidi. Lilimkera na akaamua kumtisha JKN. JKN akatema Cheche, watu wakagwaya. Kama haitoshi, akamfuatia baadaye kwenye swala la kubadili katiba. Akaandika kitabu na kufanya Conference. Kitabu kipo hapa JF kama hujakisoma, basi soma. JKN alisema wazi kabisa kuwa "........ Mwinyi ni Rais Dhaifu sana. Ila tusimuondoe maana tutaleta mkosi mbaya sana kwa Taifa. Tumwache amalizie muda wake aondoke maana Rais gani anafanya maamuzi yake Kitandani? PM akiamka anajiuliza, sijui jana wameamua (Mwinyi na Sitti ) niendelee kuwa PM au wameshanibadili ...."

Halafu leo hii mnakuja Kumwaga sifa eti aliona mbali, ataonaje Mbali wakati Sitti Mwinyi alikuwa kamziba?

Sikonge:

Mwinyi na Nyerere walikwa wame-mature sana kisiasa. Usibadilishe maneno ya Nyerere kufanya kwamba alikuwa anapingana na Mwinyi sana. Nyerere alikuwa hafichi vitu. Na watu walipokuwa wanapendekeza wabadilishe katiba hili Mwinyi ashike kipindi cha tatu, Nyerere alitoa mfano wake mwenyewe.

Kuna watu walitaka wabadilishe katiba hili Nyerere awe rais wa maisha. Lakini walifanya hivyo kujipendekeza na wengi walikuwa wanafiki. Kwani kwenye matatizo ni rais anapewa lawama.

Na vilevile alitoa mfano wake kuwa alitaka kuachia ngazi 1980, lakini aliongeza tena miaka mitano. kipindi cha 1980-85 mambo yakawa mabaya zaidi.

Hivyo kutokana na experience yake aliona kuwa kipindi cha kiongozi kikimalizika lazima aanze.

 

[Gamba la Nyoka]

Gamba la Nyoka,

Wewe naona umezaliwa miaka ya 80 na haya ya Mwinyi umeyasikia tu au kuyaona ukiwa mdogo. Kuwa na vyama vingi ni NYERERE alilazimisha. Ni Mwinyi huyu alitaka hadi kujiongezea muda kwenye Urais kwa kuvunja katiba na hapo kazee ka Butiama kakaja na kummaliza. Kakasema "nchi haiwezi kuongozwa kwa maamuzi ya Kitandani....." Miaka hiyo Mama Sitti Mwinyi akisema " Gamba la Nyoka uwe au usiwe PM" basi itakuwa hivyo.

Jasusi:
Kipindi Mwinyi anaondoka, Tanzania ilikuwa na hali mbaya sana. Nakumbuka kuna mashine moja muhimu sana male Muhimbili iliyokuwa itumike kumtibu Dada yangu Mpenzi na Mumewe iliharibika. Yes, mwaka mmoja wote walikufa kwa ugonjwa ambao ungeliweza kutibiwa au hata kuwasaidia kuishi miaka kadhaa zaidi. Hili limenifanya NIMCHUKIE Mwinyi hadi kesho na sidhani kuna jambo lolote atafanya ili nimpende. Nilichukia kile KIBAO alinaswa hakikuwa cha Nguvu. Angelirushiwa VIATU kama Iraq na vikampata.........

Ningelikuwa na uwezo wa Kisiasa.................... Mungu asipe uwezo huo.

Hayo mambo ya kuzaliwa mwaka 80 au 60 au 40 yametoka wapi? yanahusiana vipi na fact kwamba Utawala wa Mzee Mwinyi watanzania tulikuwa na afadhali?.

nimetoa data kukuonyesha kwamba GDP per Capita ya Nchi ilikuwa kwenye free fall kuanzia mwaka 1977 mpaka 1984, na ikaanza kupanda kipindi cha utawala wa mzee Ruksa.

Wewe unashangilia Mwinyi kuminywa mbavu na Nyerere kuhusiana na term za uraisi, wakati Nyerere huyohuyo kakaa madarakani miaka ISHIRINI NA NNE, what are you talking about?.

Kuhusu kuharibika kwa Mashine hapo Muhimbili, na kifo cha ndugu yako, lakini wapo Watanzania waliokufa katika vita ambavyo vingeweza kuepukwa kabisa vya kagera(rejea hotuba ya mwakilishi wa Museveni katika mazishi ya mzee Kawawa jinsi Tanzania ilivyohusika na ishu nzima kabla ya mwaka 1978), rejea ukosefu wa huduma bora za kijamii nchini kipindi cha Nyerere, Rejea sera zilizofeli za vijiji vya ujamaa na athari zake kwa maisha ya wananchi.


Mwalimu ndiye aliyevifuta vyama vingi nchini, hili liko wazi, Mwinyi akavirudisha hapo mwaka 1992, angetaka asingevirudisha, kwa kitendo cha Mzee Mwinyi kukubali mawazo na hoja za wengine inaonyesha wazi kwamba hakuwa HAAMBILIKI.
kama Nyerere baadae aliweza kubadirika na kuviona vyama vingi vinafaa na kwa hivyo kuvipigia kampeni virudi tena basi nae ni wa kupongezwa, lakini Raisi aliyefanya mchakato na kuchukua uamuzi mzuri wa kuviruhusu huyo ndiye wa kupewa credit zaidi hata kama yeye mwenyewe alikuwa havipendi.

You can not take credits away from Mzee RUKSA on the re-introduction of multipartism issue . never!

 

[Gamba la Nyoka]

Wakati wa Mwinyi ndio kulikuwa na migomo mikubwa mikubwa, Wakati wa Mwinyi madaktari waligoma pamoja na wauguzi yeye akaenda kucheza kwasakwasa ya Kanda Bongo Man, wakati wa Mwinyi ndipo wafanyabiashara walipoifanya Ikulu kama gulio, wakati wa Mwinyi ndipo chembe chembe za sectarian violence na udini zilipojidhihirisha wazi ni yeye aliyeipigania sana hii hoja ya udini kama turufu ya kumpinga baba wa taifa, wakati wa Mwinyi nchi ilikuwa haikusanyi kodi , wakati wa Mwinyi ndipo nchi ilitaka kugawanyika, wakati wa Mwinyi ambapo hata Waziri Mkuu na mawaziri walikuwa hawawajibishwi ipasavyo, wakati wa Mwinyi ndipo tulipoona Tanzania inashuka kimaadili, Wakati wa Mwinyi ndipo tulipoanza kuona ulanguzi, wakati wa Mwinyi msomi hakuwa na maana zaidi ya mfanyabiashara, wakati wa Mwinyi ndipo tulipojua kuwa yeye ni fataki kwa kuoa binti wa Jangwani.........Listi haiishii hapo. Huwezi ukamsifia Mwinyi na wenye akili wakakusikiliza kimsingi Mwinyi hakuwa na guts alikuwa mdhaifu , mdini mwenye kuupiga vita Ukristo. Na ndio yeye aliyemtoa Muungwana kwenye jua kali ndio maana anamuheshimu kwa sababu ya Udini wake na sio utendaji wake. Tukubali tukatae.

Wewe Usiongee Kitu usichokijua, uhusiano wa Kanisa na Mzee Mwinyi kipindi cha utawala wake haukuwa mbaya, infact ni katika kipindi cha utawala wa mzee Ruksa kulisainiwa Memorandum of understanding(Mou) kati ya kanisa na Serikali.

Juzi hapa katika uzinduzi wa Kuchangia shule ya St Joseph, Mzee Ruksa ndiye aliyealikwa na Kanisa kufanya matembezi ya hisani akiwa yeye na kadinali pengo. sasa angekuwa mdini mwenye kupiga vita ukirsto ni vipi kanisa limpe heshima hiyo?.

halafu haya mambo ya sijui kuoa mtoto wa jangwani, hizi zote ni siasa za maji taka, kwanza umeambiwa wapi kuoa ni dhambi. Mijitu mingine bana imekaa kichukichuki tu.

Wewe unasema mawaziri kipindi cha mwinyi walikuwa hawawajibishwi, umesahau alivyovunja baraza la mawaziri na kumbadili waziri mkuu kutokana na utendaji mbovu wa baraza la mawaziri?.

Wewe huna hoja, unaleta vijistori vya kijiweni vya Enzi hizo. Waandishi wa habari waliokuwa wanapropagate vijistori hivyo walikuja kuomba msamaha kwa Mzee Ruksa baada ya kugundua kwamba walikuwa hawamtendei haki yule mzee wakati ule, rejea makala ya toleo la kwanza la Raia Mwema.

 

[Bumela]

Mr.You don't have fact on what you said. Mwinyi alikuwa anasema "Utaweza wapi kumkamua MaziwaNg'ombe ambaye hana lishe bora? Mkapa aliweza kukusanya kodi kwa sababu Mwinyi aliweza kuwanufaisha Watanzania kimaslahi, kielimu, kiuchumi nk. Mwinyi aliikuta nchi TAABANI. Zungumza ukweli. Kuwa na Critical Thinking it doesnt mean you have to disagree on every issues, Mr. Use your knowledge to help others, Mr.

Mi nashangaa inawezekana wewe hukuwepo wakati Mwinyi anatawala, Ni elimu gani iliyokuwepo? Na uchumi upi?Kwa kifupi watu wliacha shule, vyuo, kazi, na hata wahadhiri waliacha kufundisha wote wakaenda kuuza nyanya, mitumba na kuchukua bidhaa za nje kuzitoa mpakani na kuzileta sehemu zilipohitajika sasa sijui kama huo ndio uchumi?Nakuomba ulejee kwenye swala zima la MAANA YA UCHUMI.Watu kuacha shule, vyuo na nyanja zingine za elimu ambavyo ndio msingi wa kujenga elimu ndio kuelimika na hapo naomba ulejee tena swala zima la MAANA YA ELIMU.Tatizo kubwa ni kuingiza swala la udini kwenye mijadala muhimu kama hii.Ndugu yangu tukitaka kujenga Nchi yetu ni lazima tuweke kando dini zetu na tufikirie utanzania wetu na maendeleo ya Nchi yetu.

 

[JokaKuu]

..miaka mitano ya kwanza Mzee Mwinyi alifanya vizuri sana.

..awamu ya pili ndiyo akaboronga mpaka wafadhili "wakatununia."

..pia economic liberalization kwa Tanzania ilikuwa ni wazo la Edwin Mtei.

..Mwalimu na Sokoine walikubaliana na mawazo hayo kwa shingo upande tu.

..majadiliano na IMF na WB yalianza wakati wa Mwalimu. hapo katika yalivunjika na kupelekea Mzee Mtei kujiuzulu/kufukuzwa kazi.

..sote tunaelewa kwamba Mzee Mwinyi was not a policy wonk wa kuweza kushughulikia economic crisis tuliyokuwa nayo.

..tunachoweza kufanya ni kumpongeza kwa kuwasiliza wale waliokuwa na uelewa wa nini kinatakiwa kufanyika wakati wa economic crisis ya miaka ya 1980.

..kusema kwamba Mzee Mwinyi was a visionary kana kwamba yeye ndiye aliyekuwa kinara wa mawazo ya kurekebisha uchumi, ni kutowatendea haki wa-Tanzania waliotoa jasho, na ku-risk career zao, kwa kupambana na mahafidhina wa siasa za kijamaa waliokuwa wakipinga hoja ya marekebisho ya uchumi.

 

[Mtanganyika]

Mtanganyika,
Mkuu hata sielewi argument hapa. Debt % per GDP ya Mwinyi ilikuwa juu, inflation na karibu kila kitu ukiangalia wakati wake ndio tulikuwa vibaya zaidi lakini huu ndio undani wa uchumi kulingana na data hali wananchi walifurahia zaidi ruksa ambayo iliwapa uwezo wa kuiba mali zao wenyewe.

Kisha Sio Mwinyi aliyefungua milango isipokuwa Nyerere mwenyewe July 1984 bungeni na nakumbuka sisi ndio tulianza kuleta mali kutoka Dubai na Comoro kabla hata Wadanganyika hawajashtukia Uhuru huo. Na Mwinyi hasa kutangaza RUKSA ilikuwa awamu yake ya pili (1990) sisi wengine tumekwisha jikata..

Tatu, sii kweli masharti ya IMF wakati wa Nyerere ndiyo yaleyale alopewa Mwinyi walipokuja na SAP..in fact IMF walibadilisha masharti yao baada ya Gorbachev kuingia madarakani na mwanzo wa kifo cha cold war na wameendelea kubadilisha (reform policies) )hadi sasa hivi masharti sii magumu tena kama alokuwa nayo Nyerere na Ujamaa. Leo hii nchi zinatakiwa kuonyesha uwezo wake badala ya nchi kulazimishwa kubadilisha siasa zake na naweza sema tu masharti wanayowekewa Cuba, North Korea na Iran leo hii ndio alokuwa nayo mwalimu simply because tulikuwa tukimiliki uchumi wetu.

Tunachoshindwa wengi kufahamu ni kwamba mabadiliko yoyote ya policies za kiuchumi duniani zinalenga nchi za magharibi ambazo ziko 100 yrs mbele yetu..Na ukiwatazama wao miaka 100 iliyopita walimiliki pia uchumi wa nchi zao tena ilikuwa vigumu sana kwa mgeni kuja kuwekeza nchini zao unless una immigrate. Walihodhi benki zao, viwanda vyao, mashirika yao na karibu kila kitu walichofanya. Ubepari unahitaji mtaji kama wananchi wako hawana mtaji ni vigumu sana kufikiria Ubepari unaweza ku sustain uchumi wa nchi maskini.

Naweza sema kwa kukisia ut kwamba pengine asilimia 80 ya biahsra zote za Ulaya na Amerika ni mali ya benki zao, majumba makubw ana madogo unayoyaona huko ni mikopo iliyowezeshwa na benki zao, magari yaani kila kitu unachokiona kinashamiri kwao kimetokana na benki yaani mkopo na sio toka mfukoni mwa mtu. Hata huyo Bill Gates tajiri mkubwa duniani alianza na mkopo kabla hajafika hapo alipo leo, tofauti kabisa na mikakati inayotayarishwa kwa ajili ya nchi zetu.

Kwa hiyo, kufungua kwa milango yetu kulituwesha sisi kuleta mitumba, magari mitumba wakati tukashindwa kabisa kujenga miundombinu mipya zaidi ya kuchukua mitumba na mikataba feki kwani ndio ulikuwa uwezo wetu..hivyo siwezi sema Kiuchumi Mwinyi alikuja mna mazuri hata kidogo ikiwa sisi hatukuwa namazingira sawa na nchi za magharibi ambazo zilisherehekea Ubepari..Na ndio maana hadi leo tunakulana sisi wenyewe kwa wenyewe kwa sababu Ubepari pasipo mtaji ni sawa na ndoto ya maskini anayelala pale msikitini Kisutu akisema - ONE DAY YES!

Mkuu Mkandara, kwanza asante kwa kupresent argument yako.
Ni ukweli usiofichika kwamba mwalimu borrowed money ili kusubsdize social services. Lakini kwanza tukumbuke 1960 majority ya wachumi walikuwa hawajui jinsi ya kudevelop uchumi makoloni kuwa kama ule wa magharibi. Kadhalika Mwalimu alikuwa sio mchumi na hakuwa na wachumi wa kutosha.

Pili, ni wazi kabisa mwalimu aligomea misaada ambayo ilikuwa inatolewa kwa masharti. This is what mwalimu said "Your Excellencies: It is this growing power of the IMF and the irresponsible and arrogant way in which it is being wielded against the Poor that has forced me to use my opportunity to make these unusual remarks in a New Year Speech to you. The problems of my country and other Third World countries are grave enough without the political interference of IMF officials. If they cannot help at the very least they should stop meddling"

Kumbuka mwalim aligomea devaluation of the currency sababu it was pointless and it was Mwinyi who introduced it kwa kigezo kwamba itakuza pato la nchi na kuongeza FDI. Mwalimu aligomea unfair integration of the poor into the global economy which Mwinyi adopted without to question it, the result ndio tunatafuta mchawi mpaka leo. It was Nyerere who denied reckless privitization of state owned enterprises and trade liberalization, Mwinyi initiate it and Mkapa finalize madhara yake ndio tumehire management kutoka Canada kuja kuongoza TTCL.


Kuanzia mwaka 1985 ambapo tulikubali kuadopt SAP and all those nonsense policies from WB and IMF the results are obvious- ufinyu wa huduma za afya kwa Watanzania, Kuongezeka kwa informal sector sababu ya high unemployment, elimu mbovu na umasikini wa kutisha kabisa ndani ya Tanzania.

SAP was ideological and political tools that IMF and WB used to humiliate poor people Mwinyi didn't see it neither Mkapa nor Kikwete, this policies were based on Reagan and Thatcher ideologies of small government and free market. In the end SAP was proved wrong and IMF/WB changed to PRSP which only relieved pain but didnt cured, now they introduced MDGs na sisi tumekopi na kuanzisha MKUKUTA.


Alichokifanya Mwinyi ni kuchukua frame work kama ilivyo na kupachika Tanzania akitegemea itafanya kazi. Miaka 25 badae tunatazama 1985 kama ndipo tulipoanza kudidimia. As today only 15% ya Watanzania wana access ya UMEME only 1% was added since 1985 ( eventhough Mwinyi, Mkapa and JK followed everything from IMF and WB magic book)

During Mwinyi is where corruption start to soar, people became greed and Tanzanian start to lose their values. This what Mwalimu said about rushwa in 1980s "No one can insult you more than to offer you a bribe. Even if I have nothing but rugs to wear, you can not buy me. You can force me into slavery, but you cannot buy me. There is not enough money in the whole world worth more to me than my self or for that matter, worth more than any single one of the citizens of my country. Do you think then I will willingly sell my self or my country for a few trinkets?"


Mwisho, idea za kichumi za Mwalimu hazikuwa na uwezo wa kuitoa Tanzania kwenye umasikini 100%, that is an argument i will spare for the next debate. However, I give him credit for trying, aliona umuhimu wa kuwa na viwanda vya kuzalisha, kuepuka MFUMO WA EXPORT LEAD GROWTH, alianzisha local board which were aimed to defend wakulima. On the other side of the coin Mwinyi did it opposite and put Mafuta kwenye fire.

 

[Kiranga]

Mwinyi was a visionary leader kweli kweli, na hata wimbi la Perestrokika na Glasnost alilianzisha yeye, hizo geopolitics zilikuja ku pick up speed kutoka kwake, na hata majirani zetu kama Kenya walianzisha vyama vingi baada yetu sisi, au sio ?

Hivi mnajua maana va "visionary" nyie, au mnatupatupa maneno tu ilimradi ?

 

[August]

nini hasa lengo la kumjadili Alhaji Ali Hassan Mwinyi leo au kipindi hichi tunapoelekea kwenye uchaguzi? ana shiriki kwenye kampeni? Mimi naona lengo lake ni kutupoteza malengo, badala ya kujadili mambo yanayo tuhusu kwa sasa.

 

[August]

Mi nashangaa inawezekana wewe hukuwepo wakati Mwinyi anatawala, Ni elimu gani iliyokuwepo? Na uchumi upi?Kwa kifupi watu wliacha shule, vyuo, kazi, na hata wahadhiri waliacha kufundisha wote wakaenda kuuza nyanya, mitumba na kuchukua bidhaa za nje kuzitoa mpakani na kuzileta sehemu zilipohitajika sasa sijui kama huo ndio uchumi?Nakuomba ulejee kwenye swala zima la MAANA YA UCHUMI.Watu kuacha shule, vyuo na nyanja zingine za elimu ambavyo ndio msingi wa kujenga elimu ndio kuelimika na hapo naomba ulejee tena swala zima la MAANA YA ELIMU.Tatizo kubwa ni kuingiza swala la udini kwenye mijadala muhimu kama hii.Ndugu yangu tukitaka kujenga Nchi yetu ni lazima tuweke kando dini zetu na tufikirie utanzania wetu na maendeleo ya Nchi yetu.

Na lengo la hii mada kwa wakati huu ni kutupotezea mwelekeo au kuingiza vitu vingine vichafue muelekeo wetu kwenye uchaguzi wa 31.10.10

 

[babalao]

Tumetoka mbali. Enzi za Nyerere nilikuwa Shule ya sekondari tulisoma bure kwa hilo sitamsahau Nyerere japo naye kama binadamu alikuwa na mapungufu yake mwishoni mwa utawala wake hali ilikuwa ngumu ndiyo nimeanza kazi.Kula kwa foleni huwezi kupata unga toka NMC mpaka uwe na kibali, Magari kutotembea weekend mpaka uwe na kibali, ukionekana una colgate, raba mtoni unakamatwa, ukiona gari la ugawaji unalikimbiza kwenda kuwahi foleni kila kaya ilikuwa na daftari la mgao wa sukari, sembe nk. Hii siyo picha ya kuigiza ni mambo ya kule tulikotoka miaka ya 1980. Hali ilkuwa ngumu sana bidhaa kwa mahitaji ya kawaida tu zilikuwa hazipatikani kwa urahisi MADUKANI mpaka kwa mwendo wa kuruka. Mafuta ya petroli yalikuwa adimu. Baadaye akaingia mzee ruksa akafungua milango bidhaa zikajaa madukani sukari unatuma mtoto dukani, vibali vyote vikatoweka, Kipindi hicho ndipo nilipoanza kuona maendeleo nikanunua TV na vitu vingine vya ndani, mishahara ikaongezwa tukafurahi. Kwa ujumla nampenda sana huyu mzee ingawa kama binadamu hakosi mapungufu yake lakini ni mtu ambaye alikuwa anapenda watu wake waishi vizuri.

 

[Kiranga]

nini hasa lengo la kumjadili Alhaji Ali Hassan Mwinyi leo au kipindi hichi tunapoelekea kwenye uchaguzi? ana shiriki kwenye kampeni? Mimi naona lengo lake ni kutupoteza malengo, badala ya kujadili mambo yanayo tuhusu kwa sasa.

Mambo yanayokuhusu wewe kwa sasa si lazima yawe yanayomhusu mwingine kwa sasa, kwa hiyo kama unaona huu mjadala hauna tija usichangie, lakini huwezi kutaka kujifanya kiranja wa kuwaamulia watu nini muhimu na nini si muhimu.

Mwinyi alikuwa rais na mwenyekiti wa CCM, na hata kama unataka kuwa myopic kwa kusema "hiki ni kipindi cha uchaguzi, tujadili uchaguzi tu" kumjadili Mwinyi ni kuujadili urais na uenyekiti wa CCM, at least Mwinyi mmoja alivyofanya kazi hizo, kwa hiyo unakuta, depending on your discussion, unaweza ku incorporate mjadala wa Mwinyi na mambo yanayotokea leo, kwa mfano, kwa kujadili udhaifu wa rais Mwinyi unaweza kujua tuepuke kumchagua nani ambaye ana udhaifu kama huu, vivyo hivyo kwa umahiri wa Mwinyi.

Kwa hiyo usiwe railroaded katika one track mind ya kuwaambia watu "msijadili hiki, jadilini kile" wakati ukiangalia kwa undani tatizo ni lako mwenyewe ambaye huwezi kusuka mkeka utakaounganisha habari za Mwinyi na mambo mengine unayoona muhimu.

 

[Mtanganyika]

Jasusi:

Mwinyi aliteua tume ya Nyalali 1991. Na yeye kukubali mapendekezo ya tume ni kitu kizuri japokuwa mapendekezo ya tume yalikuwa kinyume na mtazamo wake au ule wa 80% ya watanzania.

Hiyo hotuba za February 1992 nazikumbuka kwa sababu nilibeba viti. Lakini katika hotuba hizo ilikuwa ni michango yao kama viongozi.

Si Mwinyi wala Nyerere amabo walitaka vyama vingi, bali ni pressure kutoka kwa wahisani (donors). Pressure hizi hazikuanza 1985 or 1990 bali zilianza tangu miaka ya 1960. Katika paper yake ya One-Party Government ya mwaka 1961 Mwalimu alisema haya " New nations like Tanganyika are emerging into independence as a result of struggle for freedom from colianialism. It is patriotic struggle which leaves no room for differences, and which unites all elements in the country; and the nationalist movements having united the people and led them to freedom must invetably form the first government of new states" anaendelea " In Western democracies, it is an accepted practice that in times of emergency opposition parties sink their differences and join together in forming a nationa government. This is our time of emergency, and unti our war against poverty, ignorance, and disease has been won we should not let our unity be destroyed by a desere of follow somebody else's book of rules".

In the end the pressure soared and si Mwinyi wala Nyerere the only way was to sign it. Which i give all credit kwa mzee Mwinyi for this.

 

[Mtanganyika]

Mwinyi was a visionary leader kweli kweli, na hata wimbi la Perestrokika na Glasnost alilianzisha yeye, hizo geopolitics zilikuja ku pick up speed kutoka kwake, na hata majirani zetu kama Kenya walianzisha vyama vingi baada yetu sisi, au sio ?

Hivi mnajua maana va "visionary" nyie, au mnatupatupa maneno tu ilimradi ?

This is where Tanzanian are make mistake. Next time kumbuka hili "History is a guide to navigation in perilous times. History is who we are and why we are the way we are."

 

[Mkandara]

Mkuu Mkandara, kwanza asante kwa kupresent argument yako.
Ni ukweli usiofichika kwamba mwalimu borrowed money ili kusubsdize social services. Lakini kwanza tukumbuke 1960 majority ya wachumi walikuwa hawajui jinsi ya kudevelop uchumi makoloni kuwa kama ule wa magharibi. Kadhalika Mwalimu alikuwa sio mchumi na hakuwa na wachumi wa kutosha.

Pili, ni wazi kabisa mwalimu aligomea misaada ambayo ilikuwa inatolewa kwa masharti. This is what mwalimu said "Your Excellencies: It is this growing power of the IMF and the irresponsible and arrogant way in which it is being wielded against the Poor that has forced me to use my opportunity to make these unusual remarks in a New Year Speech to you. The problems of my country and other Third World countries are grave enough without the political interference of IMF officials. If they cannot help at the very least they should stop meddling"

Kumbuka mwalim aligomea devaluation of the currency sababu it was pointless and it was Mwinyi who introduced it kwa kigezo kwamba itakuza pato la nchi na kuongeza FDI. Mwalimu aligomea unfair integration of the poor into the global economy which Mwinyi adopted without to question it, the result ndio tunatafuta mchawi mpaka leo. It was Nyerere who denied reckless privitization of state owned enterprises and trade liberalization, Mwinyi initiate it and Mkapa finalize madhara yake ndio tumehire management kutoka Canada kuja kuongoza TTCL.


Kuanzia mwaka 1985 ambapo tulikubali kuadopt SAP and all those nonsense policies from WB and IMF the results are obvious- ufinyu wa huduma za afya kwa Watanzania, Kuongezeka kwa informal sector sababu ya high unemployment, elimu mbovu na umasikini wa kutisha kabisa ndani ya Tanzania.

SAP was ideological and political tools that IMF and WB used to humiliate poor people Mwinyi didn't see it neither Mkapa nor Kikwete, this policies were based on Reagan and Thatcher ideologies of small government and free market. In the end SAP was proved wrong and IMF/WB changed to PRSP which only relieved pain but didnt cured, now they introduced MDGs na sisi tumekopi na kuanzisha MKUKUTA.


Alichokifanya Mwinyi ni kuchukua frame work kama ilivyo na kupachika Tanzania akitegemea itafanya kazi. Miaka 25 badae tunatazama 1985 kama ndipo tulipoanza kudidimia. As today only 15% ya Watanzania wana access ya UMEME only 1% was added since 1985 ( eventhough Mwinyi, Mkapa and JK followed everything from IMF and WB magic book)

During Mwinyi is where corruption start to soar, people became greed and Tanzanian start to lose their values. This what Mwalimu said about rushwa in 1980s "No one can insult you more than to offer you a bribe. Even if I have nothing but rugs to wear, you can not buy me. You can force me into slavery, but you cannot buy me. There is not enough money in the whole world worth more to me than my self or for that matter, worth more than any single one of the citizens of my country. Do you think then I will willingly sell my self or my country for a few trinkets?"


Mwisho, idea za kichumi za Mwalimu hazikuwa na uwezo wa kuitoa Tanzania kwenye umasikini 100%, that is an argument i will spare for the next debate. However, I give him credit for trying, aliona umuhimu wa kuwa na viwanda vya kuzalisha, kuepuka MFUMO WA EXPORT LEAD GROWTH, alianzisha local board which were aimed to defend wakulima. On the other side of the coin Mwinyi did it opposite and put Mafuta kwenye fire.

Mkuu wangu wewe unazungumza reality na hakika nakupa tano kwani sii wengi wanataka kujua hali halisi zaidi ya ushabiki!... mengine tuzungumze ili mradi tu watu tunataka kuzungumza lakini Tanzania ya mwaka 60 kiuchumi haina tofauti kubwa na leo pamoja na kupitia viongozi wote hawa.

Mara nyingi hujiuliza na pengine kuuliza watu sisi na Ujamaa wetu tuna tofauti gani na nchi ambazo hazikuwa wajamaa? hao Kenya Zambia, Malawi na kadhalika!..
Na iweje nchi kama China, Vietnam, Cambodia na hata Ethiopia na Msumbiji walopitia na mitihani migumu ya Ujamaa kuliko sisi wameweza kwenda mbele yetu! -visingizio kibao utasikia kuhusu Nyerere na wakoloni..

Labda niseme tu ya kwamba sisi Tanzania taifa changa (kiumri) tunajaribu sana kuvaa suti kiuchumi kama nchi zilizoendelea ili nasi tufanane nao, hakika tunachekesha tu.

Ni muhimu sana mikakati yoyote ya kimaendeleo na hata policies zetu za kiuchumi lazima kizingatie kwamba sisi bado ni toddlers na tunahitaji mavazi, chakula na lishe ya uchumi iunayolingana na umri wetu ili tupate kukua ktk afya bora kiuchumi. Hakuna formula rahisi ya kuondoa Umaskini zaidi ya maskini wenyewe kutambua umaskini wao. Tanzania hakuna sababu ya kuwa maskini -hatuna!.

Hivyo ukitazama sana mikakati yote nchini inalenga zaidi sisi kuvaa kama Ulaya (kuvaa suti) badala ya kutengeneza mazingira yatakayo nufaisha AFYA ya uchumi wetu. Ndivyo wenzetu maskini wote waliokuwa Wajamaa na Mabepari waliofanikiwa wamechukua hatua za kukuza uchumi wao kulingana na mazingira yao pasipo kuiga.

 

[Kiranga]

Actually Mwinyi was very reactionary, the opposite of visionary by some definitions.

One example to illustrate this. When he was forced by the donor community and post-cold war geopolitics to introduce political reforms and multi-party politics, he did not know jack about a multi-party system, even though he had been a minister and diplomat for a number of years. So he was told that Mr. George Liundi was the "go to guy" on these matters. When he called George Liundi to discuss how a multi party democracy works, Liundi was talking way past Mwinyi's knowledge, and Mwinyi was impressed, thinking "this is the man". He offered Liundi to be the first Registrar of political parties. That is how Liundi got the job.

This example typifies the Mwinyi leadership, Mwinyi was not a leader at all, he just delegated everything and trusted his appointees to a fault. This is why the appointees felt entitled to abuse the system as much as they could, the president wasn't knowledgeable and quite possibly lacked the confidence to admonish them. He conducted official business on an extermely personal level, even meeting with ordinary citizens to resolve inheritance issues, like a modern day Harun Rashid and contrary to a system that respects a modern rule of law and due process.

How can anyone say this guy was a visionary beats me. He was just fortunate to have been president at a period of great geopolitical changes, which he had no way of evading. The changes ended up creating a more liberated economy. If you tell me he could have been a total jackass and pulled some Mugabe like die-hard socialist stunts, I will give him the credit of being humble enough to recognize irresistible global trends.

But don't tell me he was a visionary. Nyerere was a visionary, deluded and utopian as his vision was, he wrote down his ideas, he experimented and everybody who is anybody knows the results.

Is Mwinyi even published ?

 

[Mkandara]

Actually Mwinyi was very reactionary, the opposite of visionary by some definitions.

One example to illustrate this. When he was forced by the donor community and post-cold war geopolitics to introduce political reforms and multi-party politics, he did not know jack about a multi-party system, even though he had been a minister and diplomat for a number of years. So he was told that Mr. George Liundi was the "go to guy" on these matters. When he called George Liundi to discuss how a multi party democracy works, Liundi was talking way past Mwinyi's knowledge, and Mwinyi was impressed, thinking "this is the man". He offered Liundi to be the first Registrar of political parties. That is how Liundi got the job.

This example typifies the Mwinyi leadership, Mwinyi was not a leader at all, he just delegated everything and trusted his appointees to a fault. This is why the appointees felt entitled to abuse the system as much as they could, the president wasn't knowledgeable and quite possibly lacked the confidence to admonish them. He conducted official business on an extermely personal level, even meeting with ordinary citizens to resolve inheritance issues, like a modern day Harun Rashid and contrary to a system that respects a modern rule of law and due process.

How can anyone say this guy was a visionary beats me. He was just fortunate to have been president at a period of great geopolitical changes, which he had no way of evading. The changes ended up creating a more liberated economy. If you tell me he could have been a total jackass and pulled some Mugabe like die-hard socialist stunts, I will give him the credit of being humble enough to recognize irresistible global trends.

But don't tell me he was a visionary. Nyerere was a visionary, deluded and utopian as his vision was, he wrote down his ideas, he experimented and everybody who is anybody knows the results.

Is Mwinyi even published ?

Mkuu wangu shukran sana as a fact hakutakiwa hata kuwa rais wa nchi yetu isipokuwa tu kutokana na circumstances ambazo tunaambiwa hazikuweza kuzuilika. Yaani kilichotokea ni sawa na Jumbe alipopewa kuwa rais wa Zanzibar..
Haya ndio mapungufu makubwa ya Nyerere!

 

[Mtanganyika]

Mkuu wangu wewe unazungumza reality na hakika nakupa tano kwani sii wengi wanataka kujua hali halisi zaidi ya ushabiki!... mengine tuzungumze ili mradi tu watu tunataka kuzungumza lakini Tanzania ya mwaka 60 kiuchumi haina tofauti kubwa na leo pamoja na kupitia viongozi wote hawa.

Mara nyingi hujiuliza na pengine kuuliza watu sisi na Ujamaa wetu tuna tofauti gani na nchi ambazo hazikuwa wajamaa? hao Kenya Zambia, Malawi na kadhalika!..
Na iweje nchi kama China, Vietnam, Cambodia na hata Ethiopia na Msumbiji walopitia na mitihani migumu ya Ujamaa kuliko sisi wameweza kwenda mbele yetu! -visingizio kibao utasikia kuhusu Nyerere na wakoloni..

Labda niseme tu ya kwamba sisi Tanzania taifa changa (kiumri) tunajaribu sana kuvaa suti kiuchumi kama nchi zilizoendelea ili nasi tufanane nao, hakika tunachekesha tu.

Ni muhimu sana mikakati yoyote ya kimaendeleo na hata policies zetu za kiuchumi lazima kizingatie kwamba sisi bado ni toddlers na tunahitaji mavazi, chakula na lishe ya uchumi iunayolingana na umri wetu ili tupate kukua ktk afya bora kiuchumi. Hakuna formula rahisi ya kuondoa Umaskini zaidi ya maskini wenyewe kutambua umaskini wao. Tanzania hakuna sababu ya kuwa maskini -hatuna!.

Hivyo ukitazama sana mikakati yote nchini inalenga zaidi sisi kuvaa kama Ulaya (kuvaa suti) badala ya kutengeneza mazingira yatakayo nufaisha AFYA ya uchumi wetu. Ndivyo wenzetu maskini wote waliokuwa Wajamaa na Mabepari waliofanikiwa wamechukua hatua za kukuza uchumi wao kulingana na mazingira yao pasipo kuiga.

Maswali ya hapo juu ni maswali ambayo nilitegemea watu kama Zitto Kabwe, Mnyika au January na vijana wezangu tujiulize kabla hatujaanza kupiga piga domo. WHAT WENT WRONG AFTER 1960? Hili swali linatakiwa kuwa somo kwenye Economics katika level ya Vyuo. Kama University za wezentu wanafundisha Economic Development at PhD level kwa nini sisi tusidedicate kutafuta sababu zilizozika Tanzania. Yes, Tanzania is dead.

Vijana wengi waleo tumekalilia kulalama tuu, lakini tumegoma kufikiri na kuchambua. Hatusomi vitabu bali tunangoja Rai au Mwananchi wachambua point mbili tatu na sisi tusimame kujiita Political Analyst kama sio Economics Guru. Lakini kweli tunajua kinachofanya mpaka leo 2010 70% ya Watanzania ni masikini wa kutupwa, same as 1961 eventhough the population quadruple? Au tunadhani kwamba ni sawa na asilimia nyingine tuu, i mean just a number? These people can't afford kula, kusoma wala kwenda hospital. These are the poeple that you call Watanzania wenzangu. These are our family members, our friends.

CCM share a big portion of the blame, but how about us the people? What is our share? How did we let the pot boiled to this level? We all became greed, yes tumekuwa wamimi. We support even wrong as long as it's justfiable. Those few who speak out, they never last long sababu ya njaa wanapewa bahasha za kaki and it's end of the story.

2010 wengine tuna enjoy Nyomi kwenye kampeni, but wengine wakitazama zile sura za Watanzania wenzao wanaudhunika. Sura zimepoteza matumani, na hazijui kesho kama zitapeleka mkono kinywani. Those are the people who fought the good fight. They match with Mwalim kumkimbiza Mkoloni, they sung the song of kumpiga mkoloni, they shed blood for that Tanzania flag in 1979. But we forget all that, we become cheerleaders on the sideline and keep cheer fulani kapata nyomi and fulani kakosa. LOOK TANZANIAN, OPEN THE EYES.

Corruption in Tanzania trikcle all the way to watoto wa shule za msingi. That is not Government issue anymore, that is national issue. Kama mtakumbuka wakati wa Mwalimu watu walikuwa patritic, watu walikwenda across the globe kutangaza Tanzania. Leo hii watu tumekuwa wamimi, no one care for anything or anybody.

Tanzania need social reengineering kabla ya chochote. Tunaitaji Visionary leader ambaye ata bridge the gap between now and future. Hatuitaji blah blah tunaitaji watu watakao tazama 50 years from now and say people in the future will judge us and say this point it's where it began.

 

[Gamba la Nyoka]

Actually Mwinyi was very reactionary, the opposite of visionary by some definitions.

One example to illustrate this. When he was forced by the donor community and post-cold war geopolitics to introduce political reforms and multi-party politics, he did not know jack about a multi-party system, even though he had been a minister and diplomat for a number of years. So he was told that Mr. George Liundi was the "go to guy" on these matters. When he called George Liundi to discuss how a multi party democracy works, Liundi was talking way past Mwinyi's knowledge, and Mwinyi was impressed, thinking "this is the man". He offered Liundi to be the first Registrar of political parties. That is how Liundi got the job.

This example typifies the Mwinyi leadership, Mwinyi was not a leader at all, he just delegated everything and trusted his appointees to a fault. This is why the appointees felt entitled to abuse the system as much as they could, the president wasn't knowledgeable and quite possibly lacked the confidence to admonish them. He conducted official business on an extermely personal level, even meeting with ordinary citizens to resolve inheritance issues, like a modern day Harun Rashid and contrary to a system that respects a modern rule of law and due process.

How can anyone say this guy was a visionary beats me. He was just fortunate to have been president at a period of great geopolitical changes, which he had no way of evading. The changes ended up creating a more liberated economy. If you tell me he could have been a total jackass and pulled some Mugabe like die-hard socialist stunts, I will give him the credit of being humble enough to recognize irresistible global trends.

But don't tell me he was a visionary. Nyerere was a visionary, deluded and utopian as his vision was, he wrote down his ideas, he experimented and everybody who is anybody knows the results.

Is Mwinyi even published ?

Yours is just a perception. kind of "what I know, surely must be it that way", and that is wrong.
Infact you have not given any form of evidence that Mwinyi didn't know a jack about how Multi-partism works, and infact consulting those who are more knowledgeable is not a kind of weakness, It is strength.

Mwinyi was not a leader?, you must be kidding, these are kind of Generalization that infact blind the self appointed pundits of Tanzania politics. Statistics shows the Tanzanian economy was much better during his administration more than the whole last eight years of Nyerere administration, isn't the management of the economy an indication of Leadership?

I will tell you this, Mwinyi was the man, silent but with own decisions, humble who would not hesitate to incorporate good ideas from those who present them, and that is one of the ingredient of the Wise Leader.

Go and ask the common man, about the immense sufferings in the last eight years of Nyerere aministration, and the ease that came to their normal lives during the Mwinyi administration.

We are not competing Mwinyi and Nyerere here. we are just trying to give credit and appreciation to the man who allowed to change his self views on multipartism for a more comprehensive needs of the citzens. and by a stroke of his pen alas! now we can have a new president from the opposition party.

You are talking about meeting ordinary people and solve inheritance as if it useless and hence a sign of disqualification from being credited as a good leader, but what you dont say is whether he used the State Seal or any presidential powers to settle those conflicts. your views are merely an elite mentality that somehow want presidents not to intermingle with the commons. Mwinyi is a father, a husband, an elder, and for any cultural connection that he had with the society he could be consulted to give some advice on social issues such as inheritance, marriages or any sort of advice that could help, if he could do that during the spare time after perfoming his presidential duties, what is wrong with that?

And this is what made Mwinyi a man of the people, for the people, the president who will never fade from the memory of the "Kabwelas"

He has a record, setting a precedence for a minister to resign due to the underperformance of his ministry, strangely some of those who love Nyerere so much even dare to say IT IS MWALIMU WHO FORCED HIM TO RESIGN. come on guys YOU CAN NOT DEFEND NYERERE'S LEGACY BY NOT GIVING CREDITS WHERE IT IS DUE AND INSTEAD GIVE IT TO NYERERE.