Majeshi yetu Comoro: Who is responsible?

Nyani Ngabu said:

Yes...what about Darfur....where is the AU?

Click to expand...

PRESIDENT KIKWETE TO A OURNALIST: Well, how to get -- how do we get more peacekeepers into Darfur? Of course what has been delaying getting more peacekeepers has been the lack of understanding between the U.N. and the government of Sudan on the status of forces agreement. Now that one has been signed, I think it has cleared the way. There are many volunteers, and as chair of the African Union, we certainly seek out more and more volunteers as they are needed; we use our good offices to see more and more African countries contribute. We have volunteered to contribute one battalion. If there is need for another one, we will certainly do that. (Applause.)

Pundit said:

Wanajeshi wenyewe wa Bacar watoto wazuri tu hao watakutana na kina Mura Chacha wana ugwadu na vita hawajapiga risasi mfululizo wengine tangu Msumbiji, wengine tangu vita vya Kagera!

Halafu ana wanajeshi 100-300? anataka kupambana na AU forces yenye at least 1500 soldiers?

Anajitakia mema huyu?

Click to expand...

Mkuu kwa hesabu ya haraka kila Askari watano wana mmoja. Nafikiri inabidi wakimbie tu wakajizamishe baharini.

Nyani Ngabu said:

Yes...what about Darfur....where is the AU?

Click to expand...

PRESIDENT KIKWETE TO A JOURNALIST: Well, how to get -- how do we get more peacekeepers into Darfur? Of course what has been delaying getting more peacekeepers has been the lack of understanding between the U.N. and the government of Sudan on the status of forces agreement. Now that one has been signed, I think it has cleared the way. There are many volunteers, and as chair of the African Union, we certainly seek out more and more volunteers as they are needed; we use our good offices to see more and more African countries contribute. We have volunteered to contribute one battalion. If there is need for another one, we will certainly do that.

gamba la nyoka said:

in comoro they are fighting the Bacar soldiers
in Sudan who are they fighting?.

Click to expand...

Janjaweed...

Icadon said:

Wanajeshi wa AU si wako Darfur au? na kila siku wanashambuliwa na hawajui nani anawashambulia(Chad, Janjaweed, Sudan?).

Click to expand...

Jamaa hawana hata communication radios sasa tunaweza kuconclude kuwa SERIKALI YA TANZANIA INGHARAMI hii OPERATION..na hii inaleta yale maswali ambayo ni uncomfortable niliyouliza hapo awali:


Kwa nini Wizara ya Ulinzi chini ya na waziri wao wamekuwa kimya?

Kwa nini Foreign chini ya Membe ndio wamekuwa wakitupa progress yah ii vita ?


Kwa nini Ikulu chini ya Salva hawatoi statements kwenye website yao kutueleza tutanifaika vipi kama taifa kupeleka wale wanajeshi kule?






Hii vita inatucost kiasi gani perday?

Je wanajeshi wetu wangapi wamejeruhiwa?

Wangapi washakufa?

Kwa nini wanajeshi wetu hawana BODY ARMOURS?


Ni akina nani walihusika kumshawishi JK sisi kuingia kwenye hii vita?





Hii operation ili pitishwa kwa azimio lipi la AU?


Lini?

akina nani walivote kule AU?


Nani ali abstain?


kwa nini?


Kama African Union hawawezi kupeleka Helicopter kule Darfur what makes you think pesa wanazo za hii operesheni ya Comoro?

Kama AU haina pesa za mkutano wa Pan African Parliament hizo pesa za uvamizi wa Comoro zimetoka wapi?

Kwa nini serikali haitaki kutuambia kuwa imetoa kiasi gani kwenye hii operation?


INTERVENTION:


Intervention hazikatazwi mfano Tanzania ilivamia Uganda uner pretext ya self defence na the same applies to Vietnam kuvamia Cambodia ...hii concepty inatumika zaidi kwenye UN charter 51


Je, Tanzanias invasion in Comoro inaangukia kwenye criteria gani ambayo ita concstitutte legitimate intervention?

kwenye internationa law wanasema kuwa ziko 4:


1) just cause (a "supreme humanitarian emergency")

2) last resort

3) proportional use of force


4) probability of achieving a humanitarian outcome


BERNARD MEMBE ambaye anajiposition kama hawk au tuseme Donal Rumsfield wetu hakuweka wazi haya.

Ina wezekana ikawa mheshimiwa waziri alipitiwa lakini ukiangalia jamaa wa International Commission on Intervention and State Sovereignty or the ICISS wao wali suggest six principles for the "responsibility to protect": nazo ni:

1)right cause

2)right intention

3)right authority

4) last resort

5)proportionate means

6)reasonable prospects

sasa maswali :

je, COMORO ina fit that bill?

Je uvamizi wa Comoro na majeshi yetu ni JUST CAUSE?

kama zote zimetick then lets move on kwenye argument ya pili nayo ni:

Je Majaeshi yetu yatakaa kule for how long?

Strategic planners wetu wanajua kuwa its EASY TO WIN THE WAR BUT DIFFICULT TO KEEP THE PEACE?

Bwana Abdul Bacar Soihir anapendwa kisiwani kwake na tuseme baada ya kuondoa..lets say majeshi yetu yakimuua mnategemea kuwa wananchi kwenye kie kisiwa wataendelea kuwapa wanajeshi wetu haluwa mtaani?

UHUSIANO WETU NA FRANCE:

Katika nchi ambaya wananchi wanawachukia wafaransa duniani basi COMORO ni number 1

Serikali ya ufaransa knowingly walikuwa wakimuachia yule DOG OF WAR bwana BOB DENARD kuwaua na kuwabadilishia watawala Comoro sasa raia wa Comoro leo atakisikiaje akisikia kuwa Tanzania na France lao moja kwenye hili?

Situation tuliyonayo itakuja kuwa kama ya majeshi ya India kule Srinagar na Jammu Kashmir ambako majeshi ya India ambayo ni waHINDU wamewakalia kimabavu raia wa Kashmir ambao wengi wao ni WAISLAM sasa hii ndio hali itakavyokuwa sasa hivi tunasherekea lakini kutokana na Sensitivity ya wa Comoro na FRANCE I am sure kuwa sisi tutaonekana kama occupying force kwenye kisiwa kile.


FANATIC MUSLIMS:
Japo wanasema kuwa rais wa sasa wa Comoro ni moderate Muslim lakini mwenyewe anajulikana kuwa anapata directives toka Iran na anajulikana kama ni hard liner. Sasa hamuoni kuwa hii iko in contrast na malengo yetu ya war against Muslim Fanaticism?

Majeshi yetu wengi wao ni Wakristo sasa mnasemaje kama in the future kumetokea fall out na makundi ya waislam wenye siasa kali watakapo amua kubadilisha mwelekeo wa uvamizi wetu kama Ai Deed alivyofanya kula Somalia?

Its very simple kuignite haya mambo hivyo lets not rule that out.



UNITED NATIONS:

Je hamshangai kuwa UN haitajwi kabisa kwenye hili jambo? Membe hakuwaambia ukweli na ukweli ni kuwa forcible intervention kama ya Anjouan must be legally authorised by a resolution of the United Nations Security Council (UNSC) tena in accordance with the consent of nine of the fifteen members

Mfano UNSC katika miaka ya karibuni wame authorize military intervention :

1) restore democracy in Haiti, (UNSC 1994,res/940)

2) end the repression of Kurds in northern Iraq,(UNSC,1991 res/688)

3) curb famine in Somalia,(UNSC,1992 res/794)

4) stop ethnic cleansing in Bosnia,(UNSC,1992 res/770)

5) limit genocide in Rwanda.(UNSC,1994 res/929)

Na kwa kila case ya hizi resolutions, the Council cited a threat to international peace as the principal legal justification for intervention. Sasa hebu niambieni Anjouan wamethreat Peace ya Tanzania kwa namna gani?



Wote tunajua kwa nini UNSCOM II ilifeli kule Somalia na sioni kwa nini hii military occupation ya kisiwa cha Anjouan isifeli kama kutakuwa na watu smart wa kutrigger opinion za wananchi wa Anjouan


Anyway sini sababu ya kutowahusisha jamaa wa UNITAF in the first place.

Kuna watu walisema kuwa wanjeshi wetu wnahitaji mazoezi..well wanaweza kufanya hivyo kwa kutuhudumia sisi wananchi badala ya kupoteza ma bilioni kule Comoro

Huu ni mwanzo tuu na mengine yatafuata baadae

Labda ASSAH MWAMBENE angeweka wazi kwa nini Foreign wamekuwa ma hawkish kiasi hiki na kwanini waziri wa ulinzi au wizara ya ulinzi hawaruhusiwi kusema kitu

Baada ya kusoma na kufuatilia kwa makini baadhi ya maoni ya wanachma wenzangu, mimi nikaamua kufanza utafiti wa jambo hili na labda kutaka kuchambua zaidi kwanini majeshi ya AU yamepelekwa kisiwani humo.

Tangu kupata uhuru kisiwa hicho kimekoswakoswa na majaribio 19 ya kupindua serikali iliopo madarakani, huku ikiwa inaaminika kwamba kiongozi wa maghaidi bwana Fazul Abdullah Mohamed ni mzwaliwa wa kisiwani humo.

Katika duru za ujasusi inaaaminika kwamba bwana Mohamed ndie alikuwa kiranja mkuu wa mipango ya kulipua mabomu balozi za Marekani mjini Dar-es-Salaam nchini Tanzania na Nairobi nchini Kenya mwaka 1998. Mashambulizi hayo yaliua watu 224 na kikundi cha Al-Qaeda ambacho kilichoongozwa na Mohamed na ambacho kilikuwa na makao yake makuu nchini Somalia.

Lakini mara ghafla siku ya Jumanne tarehe 18 March, majeshi ya AU yaliyojumuisha kutoka Sudan, Libya,Senegal na Tanzania, yalivamia kisiwa cha Anjouan,na kuanza kusaidia vikosi va majeshi ya Comoro.

Lakini hatua hii inaleta maswali mengi sana.

1. Iweje majeshi hayo yote yavamie kisiwa hicho chenye watu si zaidi ya 240,000 ilhali njia ya kidiplomasia na vikwazo vingeendelea kutumika kama ambavo Afrika Kusini imekuwa ikishauri?

2.Ingawa operesheni hio ni fupi, lakini inaashiria kuleta gharama za uendeshaji likiwemo suala la watu kukimbia nyumba zao,na pia gharama za kujenga upya baadhi ya miundo mbinu au makazi ya watu ambayo yamebomolewa, je ni nani atagharamia hilo kati ya Umoja wa Afrika na Serikali ya Comoro?

3. Huku ikiwa inakabiliwa na majukumu mengine ya kusimamia amani huko Darfur na maeneo mengine yanye migogoro barani Afrika, je kwa sasa ni vema kujishughulisha na kusimamia amani kwa njia ya vita? badala ya kutumia njia ya mezani ambapo gharama za kupeleka majeshi katika maeneo yenye vurugu na migogoro zinakuwa kubwa na ni nani anawapa fwedha AU kuzichezea hivo?

Naomba kutoa hoja.

gamba la nyoka said:

in comoro they are fighting the Bacar soldiers
in Sudan who are they fighting?.

Click to expand...

Since February 2003, there has been a growing armed conflict between two armed groups and the Government of Sudan in Darfur. These groups launched their first attacks on government garrisons in the region. These armed groups call themselves the 'Sudan Liberation Army' (SLA) and the 'Justice and Equality Movement' (JEM).(3) Darfur is home to some 80 tribes and ethnic groups divided between nomads and sedentary communities. The unrest, especially that associated with the SLA, appears to have been identified with one particular ethnic group, the Zaghawa tribe, which straddles the Sudan-Chad border. The JEM group has come to be identified with extremist Islamic political leaders hostile to the present Sudanese government.

Darfur presents a very complex situation with very complex problems. There can be no simple analysis of the issue. Darfur is an ecologically- fragile area and subject to growing - and often armed - conflict over access to water. There has also been considerable armed banditry and criminality within the area with many criminals having access to automatic weapons from Chad and the Central African Republic. In perhaps the most objective reading of the crisis in Darfur, the UN media service has made this analysis: "The conflict pits farming communities against nomads who have aligned themselves with the militia groups - for whom the raids are a way of life - in stiff competition for land and resources. The militias, known as the Janjaweed, attack in large numbers on horseback and camels and are driving the farmers from their land, often pushing them towards town centres."(4)

Source

Richard said:

Baada ya kusoma na kufuatilia kwa makini baadhi ya maoni ya wanachma wenzangu, mimi nikaamua kufanza utafiti wa jambo hili na labda kutaka kuchambua zaidi kwanini majeshi ya AU yamepelekwa kisiwani humo.

Tangu kupata uhuru kisiwa hicho kimekoswakoswa na majaribio 19 ya kupindua serikali iliopo madarakani, huku ikiwa inaaminika kwamba kiongozi wa maghaidi bwana Fazul Abdullah Mohamed ni mzwaliwa wa kisiwani humo.

Katika duru za ujasusi inaaaminika kwamba bwana Mohamed ndie alikuwa kiranja mkuu wa mipango ya kulipua mabomu balozi za Marekani mjini Dar-es-Salaam nchini Tanzania na Nairobi nchini Kenya mwaka 1998. Mashambulizi hayo yaliua watu 224 na kikundi cha Al-Qaeda ambacho kilichoongozwa na Mohamed na ambacho kilikuwa na makao yake makuu nchini Somalia.

Lakini mara ghafla siku ya Jumanne tarehe 18 March, majeshi ya AU yaliyojumuisha kutoka Sudan, Libya,Senegal na Tanzania, yalivamia kisiwa cha Anjouan,na kuanza kusaidia vikosi va majeshi ya Comoro.

Lakini hatua hii inaleta maswali mengi sana.

1. Iweje majeshi hayo yote yavamie kisiwa hicho chenye watu si zaidi ya 240,000 ilhali njia ya kidiplomasia na vikwazo vingeendelea kutumika kama ambavo Afrika Kusini imekuwa ikishauri?

2.Ingawa operesheni hio ni fupi, lakini inaashiria kuleta gharama za uendeshaji likiwemo suala la watu kukimbia nyumba zao,na pia gharama za kujenga upya baadhi ya miundo mbinu au makazi ya watu ambayo yamebomolewa, je ni nani atagharamia hilo kati ya Umoja wa Afrika na Serikali ya Comoro?

3. Huku ikiwa inakabiliwa na majukumu mengine ya kusimamia amani huko Darfur na maeneo mengine yanye migogoro barani Afrika, je kwa sasa ni vema kujishughulisha na kusimamia amani kwa njia ya vita? badala ya kutumia njia ya mezani ambapo gharama za kupeleka majeshi katika maeneo yenye vurugu na migogoro zinakuwa kubwa na ni nani anawapa fwedha AU kuzichezea hivo?

Naomba kutoa hoja.

Click to expand...

MEMBE kasema kuwa tarehe 30 operesheni nzima itakuwa imekamilika

sasa tumtegemee JK ikulu ya ANJUANI akideclare MISSION ACCOMPLISHED

Then hapo ndipo tutanza kujiuliza insurgents wanatokea wapi

I am sure body bags zikianza kurudi Dar ndio tutajua who was wrong and who was right

Wanajeshi wa Bacar sio wengi lakini ni kisiwa cha Nzwani watu laki 3 ambao wanampenda sana mtu wao.

I repeat sisi hii ilikuwa ni blunder kwetu we should have never been there in the first place

Huwezi kusambaza Demokrasia kwa mtutu wa bunduki na ushahidi ni kule IRAQ

Richard said:

Baada ya kusoma na kufuatilia kwa makini baadhi ya maoni ya wanachma wenzangu, mimi nikaamua kufanza utafiti wa jambo hili na labda kutaka kuchambua zaidi kwanini majeshi ya AU yamepelekwa kisiwani humo.

Tangu kupata uhuru kisiwa hicho kimekoswakoswa na majaribio 19 ya kupindua serikali iliopo madarakani, huku ikiwa inaaminika kwamba kiongozi wa maghaidi bwana Fazul Abdullah Mohamed ni mzwaliwa wa kisiwani humo.

Katika duru za ujasusi inaaaminika kwamba bwana Mohamed ndie alikuwa kiranja mkuu wa mipango ya kulipua mabomu balozi za Marekani mjini Dar-es-Salaam nchini Tanzania na Nairobi nchini Kenya mwaka 1998. Mashambulizi hayo yaliua watu 224 na kikundi cha Al-Qaeda ambacho kilichoongozwa na Mohamed na ambacho kilikuwa na makao yake makuu nchini Somalia.

Lakini mara ghafla siku ya Jumanne tarehe 18 March, majeshi ya AU yaliyojumuisha kutoka Sudan, Libya,Senegal na Tanzania, yalivamia kisiwa cha Anjouan,na kuanza kusaidia vikosi va majeshi ya Comoro.

Lakini hatua hii inaleta maswali mengi sana.

1. Iweje majeshi hayo yote yavamie kisiwa hicho chenye watu si zaidi ya 240,000 ilhali njia ya kidiplomasia na vikwazo vingeendelea kutumika kama ambavo Afrika Kusini imekuwa ikishauri?

2.Ingawa operesheni hio ni fupi, lakini inaashiria kuleta gharama za uendeshaji likiwemo suala la watu kukimbia nyumba zao,na pia gharama za kujenga upya baadhi ya miundo mbinu au makazi ya watu ambayo yamebomolewa, je ni nani atagharamia hilo kati ya Umoja wa Afrika na Serikali ya Comoro?

3. Huku ikiwa inakabiliwa na majukumu mengine ya kusimamia amani huko Darfur na maeneo mengine yanye migogoro barani Afrika, je kwa sasa ni vema kujishughulisha na kusimamia amani kwa njia ya vita? badala ya kutumia njia ya mezani ambapo gharama za kupeleka majeshi katika maeneo yenye vurugu na migogoro zinakuwa kubwa na ni nani anawapa fwedha AU kuzichezea hivo?

Naomba kutoa hoja.

Click to expand...

Mkuu please tumeshajadili sana maswali yote hayo kwenye post za watu mbali mbali hapa...soma tu mjadala huu toka mwanzo, na uende kwenye thread zingine za Comoro utapata majibu na mengine yanakuja.

Bacar aondolewe halafu ipiwe free and fair referendum hapo watu wachague kubaki Comoro au kwenda kwa mfaransa au kwenda kivyao.

Bila kumtoa Bacar huwezi kuwa na uchaguzi huru na wa haki.

......maneno mingiiiiiii!! haya ndio matatizo pale kila mtu anaposhika MIC....shoulda, woulda, coulda, LOL ipeni time hiyo kampeni kabla hamjaanza ku-criticize!!! naona kumekuwa na lukuki la "armchair generals" pamoja na mawaziri vivuli wa ulinzi na mambo ya nje wa kujipachika ambao wana-quarterback after facts kwikwikwikwi.............hivi comoro ipo kwenye front yard ya nani vile!???

don't get me wrong, I'm an anti-war liberal!! lakini pia nipo open minded..................

Pundit said:

Bacar aondolewe halafu ipiwe free and fair referendum hapo watu wachague kubaki Comoro au kwenda kwa mfaransa au kwenda kivyao.

Bila kumtoa Bacar huwezi kuwa na uchaguzi huru na wa haki.

Click to expand...

Kisha tutaenda kumwondoa Mugabe and then Museveni au vipi?

halafu ninadhani kuna utata katika the real power ya bacar. only 300 men?. i dont think so. if Sambi didn't tell the truth about the real strength of bacar in order to convice the AU forces to take on the mission then you can see how the mission wont just be easy!.

GAME THEORY said:

Kisha tutaenda kumwondoa Mugabe and then Museveni au vipi?

Click to expand...

Serikali zao zikiomba msaada AU nadhani kutakuwa na volunteers...

YournameisMINE said:

......maneno mingiiiiiii!! haya ndio matatizo pale kila mtu anaposhika MIC....shoulda, woulda, coulda, LOL ipeni time hiyo kampeni kabla hamjaanza ku-criticize!!! naona kumekuwa na lukuki la "armchair generals" pamoja na mawaziri vivuli wa ulinzi na mambo ya nje wa kujipachika ambao wana-quarterback after facts kwikwikwikwi.............hivi comoro ipo kwenye front yard ya nani vile!???

Click to expand...

YournameisMINE said:

don't get me wrong, I'm an anti-war liberal!! lakini pia nipo open minded..................

Click to expand...

ndiyo maana na utamu wa mjadala mkuu, otherwise hili si suala la imani kama zilivyo dini...ambapo tungelazimika kuamini, kufuata na kukaa kimya.

Facts check za za haraka haraka

SAMBI

* Aged 49, Sambi was born on June 5, 1958 in Mutsamudu, Anjouan, the son of a theologian from a large local mosque.

* After attending a local Koranic school, he lived abroad extensively, including three years studying Arabic in Saudi Arabia, a year learning theology in Sudan, then four years in Iran studying Islamic political theory. That stint earned the preacher the nickname "Ayatollah" back home.

* In 1986, he founded a religious school for girls but was ordered to shut it by authorities. The move led to riots and 21 days in prison for Sambi. In 1987, authorities confiscated his passport after he visited Comorian students in Egypt. He campaigned against Anjouan's failed declaration of independence in 1997.

* A former member of parliament, Sambi is a keen basketball player. He is a businessman with interests ranging from a television station to a mattress business and a perfume factory using locally grown ylang-ylang spices.

* He won the presidency in 2006 with 58 percent of the vote.

BACAR

* Aged 45, Bacar was born on May 5, 1962, in the small Anjouanais village of Barakani.

* His education includes time at Brest naval college and Melun school of gendarmerie, both in France, and also in the United States. Before entering politics, he was a career policeman.

* He came to power in Anjouan in a coup in 2001 and has survived two counter-coups. Bacar says he is a champion of Anjouan's rights after decades of marginalisation and commands a small and seemingly disciplined militia of several hundred men.

* Officials and residents on Anjouan describe him as comfortable with military-style decisions but more ponderous with political judgments. They say he is a smooth-talker but prone to go back on his word.

* Island residents complain of corruption among a small elite of Bacar's advisers, family and friends. They say he uses the threat of violence to maintain his rule over the small and densely populated island, which produces a significant share of the archipelago's main exports of cloves, vanilla and ylang-ylang.

Icadon said:

Serikali zao zikiomba msaada AU nadhani kutakuwa na volunteers...

Click to expand...

yaani Mugabe akaombe msaada AU wa kuondolewa!. na museveni akaombe msaada wa AU aondolewe! is it possible?

Ingekuwa vizuri kama nguvu kama hizi zingeelekezwa katika kuondoa umaskini na kuboresha hali ya mtanzania.

Icadon said:

Facts check za za haraka haraka

SAMBI

* After attending a local Koranic school, he lived abroad extensively, including three years studying Arabic in Saudi Arabia, a year learning theology in Sudan, then four years in Iran studying Islamic political theory. That stint earned the preacher the nickname "Ayatollah" back home.

Click to expand...

Tumenda kumngoa moderate kule Nzwani ili kumpa nguvu zaidi huyu fundametalist Ngazija

safi sana

Just like Americans

Mind you jeshi letu ni sawa na lile Jeshi la India kule Srinagar na Jammu, Kashmir labda Membe watu wake wangemwauliza India kuhusu hizi politics of occupation.

Lets take another scenario, Nzwani watangaze JIHAD dhidi ya wavamizi tutaicontain vipi hii hali?

Surely hatutomtuma Haroub Othman are we?

gamba la nyoka said:

yaani Mugabe akaombe msaada AU wa kuondolewa!. na museveni akaombe msaada wa AU aondolewe! is it possible?

Click to expand...

Looks like jibu umelipata....Serikali ya shirikisho la Comoro imeomba msaada wa kijeshi AU baada ya juhudi za kidiplomasia kushindikana, ama wewe ulifikiria AU wameamua tu kwenda Comoro?

"Colonel Mohamed Bacar has been spotted in the village of Sadanpoini where he is heading without doubt for a place to flee on board a kwassa (small canoe) towards Mayotte island, it seems, according to various sources, that he is dressed as a woman." - Abdourahim Said Bacar, Comoron Government Spokesman