Kwanini kitabu cha Enoch kinapingwa vikali na Wanathiolojia?

the-kendrick said:
Kwa mtazamo haya mambo ya imani ukitaka scientific proof kwa maana ya objective truth tutabishana mpaka kesho ila kinachotekea people just wondering n speculating on bible matters so ikitokea theory inayoconnect dots vizuri bhas itasambaa sana mana kuna theory mbalimbali za kuelezea matukio ya kwenye bible ambayo ikifatilia unaeza ukakubali kama journey to caanan,moses meet god etc ndo mana nikaanza mwanzo kuwa kuna mitazamo mbalimbali ambayo inatolewa na binadamu kama sisi angalizo langu ni kwamba dont put religion matters into scientific proof u'll go to hell coz religion is matter of beliefs hata kama unachoamini ni kweli au uwongo just believe tu n dnt question coz its a sign of not believin refer Noah aliamini sauti tu kwamba jenga safina kuna mvua itakuja lakin mvua haikuja kwa mda mfupi ilikuja baada ya miaka mia kadhaa kupita but he wa believing tu people laugh n mock him ila hakujali tu back to topic the book of enoch inasemekanan kiliandikwa na enoch mwenyewe ambaye alichukuliwa na mungu to heaven he was absolute holy n loyal to GOD
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Siyo sauti tu mkuu! Kuna mengi mno...hayo ya sauti tu ni kwa kuwa tunafundidhwa kwa kutumia biblia ambayo haina baadhi ya vitabu.

Kuna mengi ambayo hayapo kwenye hiyo biblia, mengi mno...amnapo nadhani yangekuwepo, basi dunia(watu, mitazamo na mengine mengi) isingekuwa kama hivi Leo.
 
Kamanda wa Kweli said:
Big up mkuu!
Nisome sana mambo ya sirini, kama yapi mkuu? Kindly help please. Nakuekewa ...but a part from the books mentioned... Nimesoma some...! Niongezee yapi mkuu? Hata inbox...I need your help boss.
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Ukiwa na uelewa Wa ziada hata baadhi ya movie huwezi kuendelea kuzitazama! Kwa sababu huwa ni halisi kabisa ila wengi wanaotazama kama burudani tu huwa hawaambulii kitu.

Movies huwa zimebeba ujumbe halisi, mambo mengine ni ya kutisha sana!

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Kama nguvu yako ya asili ni ndogo, tena uwezo Wa kupambanua mambo ni Mdogo kuna hatari kubwa ya kuharibikiwa, kwa sababu zingine zimeambatana na supernatural power
Kamanda wa Kweli said:
Kwa nini nisiendelee kuziangslia, naelewa unachomaanisha ...! Ila najitahidi kukomaza moyo...ili nisiwe muoga! Ingawa wakati mwingine inakuwa kama sumu..kuishi na an ordinary human being.
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Kwanza kule kuwa tu na shauku ya kutaka kujifunza unahitaji Neema Ya Mungu kwa sababu katika kila jambo unalolifanya huwa kunakuwepo na nguvu mbili zinazokinzana, yaani negative na positive.

Itakayo chukua nafasi zaidi ni ile ambayo umeegemea zaidi.
Kamanda wa Kweli said:
There we go! I wish ...nijue mengi! Nimeshasoma bqadhi ya hivyo vitabu, nimefunguka kiasi! Daah nguvu ya asili...ila wakati mwingine...siyo kila mtu anaweza kusoma vile vitabu! Mfano ni kile cha enoch, siyo hivihivi! Kuna some drives alizonazo tofauti na mtu mwingine!
Ndiyo maana mwingine ukimwambia, unakuta hana interests hata kidogo ya kufuatilia hayo.
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Mimi naona ni vizuri tuache tu sababu sijui uwezo ulionao, sipendi niwe sababu ya kuharibikiwa kwako mkuu. Hivi vitu huathiri taratibu huwezi gundua kama umeshaathirika! Kujitoa baada ya hapo huwa ni kazi sana. Athari zake hazina tofauti sana na zile za kuangalia video chafu.
Kamanda wa Kweli said:
Hahaha...Mara nyingi nilikuwa sipendelei kuangalia za kizungu!
Nilifustilia Korean series kwa kiasi!
Nadhani zilinivutia walau...!
Za kizungu sikuzipenda...kutokana na misimamo na maadili...!
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Asante, nashukuru kwa kuwa muelewa. Kila mwalimu ana mipaka yake kulingana na maadili yake
Kamanda wa Kweli said:
Haha...kama ndivyo unavyoona sawa mkuu!
Peace be to you! Hahaha...hata kama vipo chini ya msingi wa bahari...I will find them!
Hata kama ni moyoni mwa mtu, nitaufungua na kusoma mkuu. Video chafu??? Vyote hivyo ni vitu vya kawaida tu.
Usiwe dhaifu..!
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2013 said:
Hoja ya Kipumbavu. We ni Mpumbavu na mtu Muoga kuwahi kutokea. Uoga umekudumaza akili yako zaidi. Umebakiza ya Ku kopi na kupesti

Unajiona umeshakua Zakir Naik Na Deedat kwa hoja za kubumba kama hizi?

Hii inathibitsha kua Wewe ni typical Donkey!. Kwakua unalazimisha Uongo uonekane kweli. Hata ukiambiwa Ulete ushahidi wa Zakir Naik akisema Christian Prince ni shoga, hawezi kufanya naye Debate. Ukapewa miaka 10. Hutaweza. Unazusha kama ilivyo Dini yako kuzusha Utatu WA Bikira maria na Uzeir WA Wayahudi.

Christian Prince ana debate na ma Professor wako na anawatoa Knock Out daily.

Sina shaka na upumbavu kichwani kwako by Defending the Unknown.

Wenzako walikuja na gesi, wamekimbia kwakua wameshaona KWELI iliyomo katika YESU Kristo HAIEPUKIKI.

Siku hizi wala huwaoni wakitetea upumbavu TENA. UNAONYESHA JINSI ulivyojikatia tamaa.
Sasa Unatafuta Victims wako humu. Unahitaji Counselling ya kutosha.

Ulisema mwenyewe hapa sio pa kujadili lakini naona unaendeleza Ku post upumbavu wako humu. Kuonyesha jinsi ulivyochoka na mashauri yako.

Kwa kawaida watu timamu, wanapojadili jambo Wanatafuta Suluhisho lakini wewe umechanganyikiwa kwa kujikatia Tamaa.
Wewe bakia ku copy na Ku paste tu. Maana huna jinsi.


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It might as well be stated that the Book of Enoch is in the Bible if we are talking about the Bible used by the Ethiopian Orthodox Church which does have some 50,000,000 adherents and thus a very good claim to be considered a major branch of the Christian tree.

So not only has it never been removed from the Bible, it is actually in the Bible of one rather large denomination.
So, to proceed. The Book of Enoch, then, achieved canonicity (for reasons which will become clear I use this term very loosely here) in the Ethiopian Orthodox Church only. Owing to this church's isolation, the development of its "canon" proceeded largely along lines independent of Christianity farther to the North.

As both the Greek Church and the Latin Church, so too the Ethiopian church appears to have started with the Septuagint, the Greek translation of the Pentateuch and a series of other writings related to it, as its basic Old Testament. This Greek translation was made by the Jews of Alexandria in the third and second centuries B.C.; the Septuagint includes the entire Jewish Canon (as it was finally settled in the 2nd century A.D. -- the Jewish Canon is identical with the Protestant Canon) and various other additional books (included in the Catholic and Orthodox Canons).

The precise version of the Septuagint with which the Ethiopian Church began was slightly different from that with which the Greek and Latin churches began. The Latin church started with a version missing III and IV Maccabees and the 151st Psalm. The Greek church started with a version including the aforementioned, but missing IV Ezra. The Ethiopian started with a version including IV Ezra and the 151st Psalm, but missing I, II, III, and IV Maccabees. So, the Ethiopian church's version of the Septuagint differed from the Latin church's version by including the 151st Psalm, but leaving out I and II Maccabees. The Ethiopian church's version of the Septuagint different from the Greek church's by leaving out I-IV Maccabees, but including IV Ezra.

However, the early Ethiopian church appears to have actively sought out other writings in addition to what stood in the Septuagint. This sets it apart starkly from the Greek and Latin churches which contented themselves with the Septuagint as they found it. So the Ethiopian Church acquired amongst other things a Jewish pseudepigraphical work, produced mostly in the second century B.C. (give or take half-a-century either way), but purporting to have been written by Enoch the great-grandfather of Noah.

This work was translated from Aramaic (or possibly Hebrew) into Greek; and the translation into Aethiopic was made from this Greek translation. Another such text was the Book of Jubilees, another Jewish work of the second century B.C., from a Greek translation of which an Aethiopic translation was again made. Jubilees is largely a retelling of Genesis. Then there is also IV Baruch (a Jewish text from the second century A.D.). Also there are some additions, of uncertain provenance, to the Book of Lamentations. Finally, three books of the Maccabees, which have absolutely nothing in common with the I-IV Maccabees otherwise known from the Septuagint were also acquired. These Ethiopian Books of the Maccabees are of utterly uncertain provenance.

The development of the "Canon" in the Ethiopian Church took place in a period largely unilluminated by records and largely in isolation from the rest of Christianity. Officially the Ethiopian Orthodox Church did not become independent of the authority of the Coptic Orthodox Church of Egypt until the 20th century, so there seems never to have been any authoritative Council which rendered an official decision on which books were canonical.

Unofficially, a "canon" came into being, was hallowed by use over a long period of time, and was at best codified and arranged as a "canon" secondarily as an administrative and liturgical convenience. There are still some disputes within the Ethiopian Orthodox Church as to the "canonicity" of a few other writings such as Pseudo-Josephus. Maybe there will one day be an official Council which renders an official decision.

So, to conclude: No-one ever removed the Book of Enoch from the Bible. It was not included in the Jewish Canon which was established in Jerusalem and which became official in the 2nd Century A.D. The Alexandrian Jews decided not to include it in the Septuagint. Since it was not in the Septuagint, it was never taken up either by the Latin Church or by the Greek Church, both of which (until the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries respectively) simply contented themselves with what was in the Septuagint as they found it and left it at that.

The Ethiopian Church too started with the Septuagint, but was not content to leave matters as they stood in the Septuagint. Additional works were acquired, and thus the Ethiopian Church did us all a great favour by preserving, i.a., the Book of Enoch, a fascinating apocalyptical text from the second century B.C., one which gives us great insight into Judaism of that period.
The Book of Enoch also gives great insight into the early literary and theological development of an episode just hinted at in the opening verses of chapter VI in the canonical book of Genesis, namely the idea that before the Fall of Man there had been a Fall of Angels -- that some Angels had rebelled against God and been cast out of the celestial abode.

The Book of Enoch discusses in great detail this Fall of the Angels. Although Enoch never became canonical anywhere besides Ethiopia, the book was influential both in a literary and a theological sense during the early centuries of the Latin and Greek churches (the canonical Epistle of Jude in the New Testament, for example, quotes from it as do various church fathers); and the Fall of the Angels kept receiving elaborate treatment. It is interesting to note that the lengthy surviving sections of the Old English Genesis and of the Old Saxon (Old Low German) Genesis deal almost exclusively with the Fall of the Angels, an episode which, again, is barely even hinted at in the canonical Genesis. The most elaborate and sophisticated literary treatment of the Fall of the Angels comes, of course, in Milton's Paradise Lost. Thereafter, presumably because no treatment could surpass Milton's, this story ceased to engage the literary imagination.

Anyway, because the Ethiopian church preserved this text, which as the centuries rolled by eventually passed out of knowledge in the Greek and Latin churches, we today can still read it. It was reïntroduced to the West in the late eighteenth century. In the twentieth century portions of the Book of Enoch (the so-called "Book of the Giants" -- in an Aramaic version) were identified amongst the Dead Sea Scrolls from Qumran.

There is also another version of the Enoch-material (now called II Enoch) which has turned up in various orthodox monasteries in Russia and Serbia; the language is Old Church Slavonic into which the work was translated from Greek. It is unclear if it was orginally composed in Greek or in some other language such as Hebrew or Aramaic.
 
2013 said:
All MuslimS MUST RESPECT JESUS CHRIST. SINCE JESUS CHRIST IS "THE ETERNAL WORD" OF GOD.(AN NISAA VERSE 171)

JESUS CHRIST IS "THE SPIRIT PROCEEDING" FROM GOD.

There's NO 'Compromise' in That in anyway.

Christians hold no responsible for any Mohammads'greatest blunders.

According to Muslims. It took 40 Years for Mohammad to become prophet of allah.

Meanwhile it took less that an hour for Jesus Christ (in the cradle) to self proclaim as prophet of almighty God.


******
If Mohammad is Truly meet the angel of God in the Cave, why he didn't say SALAM ALEIKUM TO Mohammad?. Like When an angel of God visiting Mary the Mother of Jesus he said Shalom to Mary.(i.e Salama aleikum). Do not be afraid I have good news.

Instead the angel was behaving like a robbery when encountered Mohammad in the Cave. He choked Mohammad very badly. He almost killed him.

What do you think Mr. potatoe tater tots?
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Huu muda wa kulinganisha Mleta Mauti na Mleta Uzima unaupata wapi?

Of all the things to do, yaani unadiriki kuwalinganisha Mohamad na Yesu!? Acha kupoteza muda wako. Yesu yu HAI....hiyo inatosha kuthibitisha kuwa they are incomparable.


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Hardwood said:
Huu muda wa kulinganisha Mleta Mauti na Mleta Uzima unaupata wapi?

Of all the things to do, yaani unadiriki kuwalinganisha Mohamad na Yesu!? Acha kupoteza muda wako. Yesu yu HAI....hiyo inatosha kuthibitisha kuwa they are incomparable.


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Amina mtumishi

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zitto junior said:
Uzushi sababu vinaongelea mambo tofauti na manabii wengine wa kwenye biblia.... Mfano Biblia tunajua Henoko alichukuliwa na Mungu YEYE KAMA YEYE ila Book of jasher inatuaminisha waliomfuata walikuwa takriban laki 6 wakati safari inaanza walipaa naye maana hawakukuta mwili wowote wala mabaki ya wale watu laki sita eneo ambalo Henoko alipaa sasa kma sio uzushi ni nini???
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Bado unaamini kitabu cha Henoko kina uzushi..!?
 
George Betram said:
Bado unaamini kitabu cha Henoko kina uzushi..!?
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Hahahhaah naona umefukua kaburi.

Enzi hizo nilikuwa bado sijaanza kuchimbua haya masuala ya hizi Dini zetu ila toka nianze hyo safari na kuandaa mijadala humu kupitia nyuzi mbalimbali nikiri tu mentality yangu towards Kitabu cha Henoko zimebadilika na nakiona kina baadhi ya mambo credible sana hasa book of watchers na book of GIANTS vinafikirisha sana.
 
zitto junior said:
Hahahhaah naona umefukua kaburi..... Enzi hizo nilikuwa bado sijaanza kuchimbua haya masuala ya hizi Dini zetu ila toka nianze hyo safari na kuandaa mijadala humu kupitia nyuzi mbalimbali nikiri tu mentality yangu towards Kitabu cha Henoko zimebadilika na nakiona kina baadhi ya mambo credible sana hasa book of watchers na book of GIANTS vinafikirisha sana.
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Ahahaaah...
Unajua kwanini nimekuuliza..?
Nimekuuliza kwasababu mimi ni mmoja kati ya watu wanaofuatilia kwa karibu sana mabandiko yako..!

Ndio maana nilivyokutana na mchango wako kwenye huu uzi,nikajisemea moyoni "huyu ni Zitto Jr wa zamani,ngoja nifanye kumchokoza kidogo"
 
Behaviourist said:
Mojawapo ya verse kutoka kwenye kitabu cha gospel of Thomas ni hii hapa mkuu:

1. And he said, "Whoever discovers the interpretation of these sayings will not taste death."

2. Jesus said, "Those who seek should not stop seeking until they find. When they find, they will be disturbed. When they are disturbed, they will marvel, and will reign over all. [And after they have reigned they will rest.]"
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Una uhakika hii verse haipo katika hizi injili 4 zilizopo?
 
zitto junior said:
Hahahhaah naona umefukua kaburi..... Enzi hizo nilikuwa bado sijaanza kuchimbua haya masuala ya hizi Dini zetu ila toka nianze hyo safari na kuandaa mijadala humu kupitia nyuzi mbalimbali nikiri tu mentality yangu towards Kitabu cha Henoko zimebadilika na nakiona kina baadhi ya mambo credible sana hasa book of watchers na book of GIANTS vinafikirisha sana.
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Mkuu km unavyo tupia humu

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zitto junior said:
Hahahhaah naona umefukua kaburi..... Enzi hizo nilikuwa bado sijaanza kuchimbua haya masuala ya hizi Dini zetu ila toka nianze hyo safari na kuandaa mijadala humu kupitia nyuzi mbalimbali nikiri tu mentality yangu towards Kitabu cha Henoko zimebadilika na nakiona kina baadhi ya mambo credible sana hasa book of watchers na book of GIANTS vinafikirisha sana.
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Book of giants!!! Waweza nipatia hiki mkuu?
 
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