Is God fair ?

[Lisa Valentine]

Where did I say that my original premise was based on nothing in a vacuum manner?

Do you understand that a vacuum is not nothing since it has space?

Do you understand that space itself has energy, and energy is convertible to matter per Einstein, and therefore as long as a vacuum exists in space, it canot be nothing?

Do you understand that the perfection of anything that exists in space is flawed by virtual particles popping up anywhere and everywehere randomly due to the energy field of space?

Hahahaha! Do I understand?? Far more than you do. You original premise is based on vacuum manner since that what can be applied with the laws of the actual universe we are living. The same laws you have tried to construct your argument which claims height of perfection will lead to nothing existing. :tonguez:

 

[a4afrika]

Yes, nimeandika.

Umeandika



Why would an omnibenevolent, omnipotent godhead make benevolence conditional?

Ni kwa kuwa God is Nature, and the Nature itself is Law! Hakuna kilichuumbwa ila kwa sheria na force, na hakuna kitakachosimama ila kwa sheria na forces. Before God/Nature, hakuna kitu kinachoitwa "Unconditional something..." coz yeye mwenyewe ni SHERIA na kwazo ulimwengu ulifanyika. The Universe is conditioned.

Hivi hata kwa mfano tu, unalitoa wapi neno FAIR pasipokuwa na conditions? THE NATURE/GOD IS FAIR, do you know why? It is bcoz the conditions he installed are logical! Those conditions determine the 4 omnis of God/Nature!
Anaita sasa!

 

[Kiranga]

Hahahaha! Do I understand?? Far more than you do. You original premise is based on vacuum manner since that what can be applied with the laws of the actual universe we are living. The same laws you have tried to construct your argument which claims height of perfection will lead to nothing existing. :tonguez:

But you did not answer my question.

Where did I say that my original premise is based on "vacuum manner"?

Or are you simply projecting your ignorance of what "nothing" is on my part?

 

[Kiranga]

Yes, nimeandika.

Ni kwa kuwa God is Nature, and the Nature itself is Law! Hakuna kilichuumbwa ila kwa sheria na force, na hakuna kitakachosimama ila kwa sheria na forces. Before God/Nature, hakuna kitu kinachoitwa "Unconditional something..." coz yeye mwenyewe ni SHERIA na kwazo ulimwengu ulifanyika. The Universe is conditioned.

Hivi hata kwa mfano tu, unalitoa wapi neno FAIR pasipokuwa na conditions? THE NATURE/GOD IS FAIR, do you know why? It is bcoz the conditions he installed are logical! Those conditions determine the 4 omnis of God/Nature!
Anaita sasa!

Hujajibu swali.

Why would an omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, omni benevolent godhead, who has the ability to make benevolence unconditional (else he would not be omnipotent) make benevolence conditional?

Was he exonomizing on benevolence and afraid thatbit was going to run out?

Is such a godhead who creates a universe in which bad is possible even omni benevolent?

 

[Kiranga]

Pole sana, nimejiweka kwenye nafasi yako na i know what u mean. Naomba usome DEISM. Nenda google kisha fungua hilo neno. Utapata jibu Mungu yupo au Mungu baada ya kuumba ulimwengu aliuacha tu ukae watu wafanye wanayotaka. Pole once again. But God anajua anachofanya hata kama ni malipizi ya wafanya mabaya unaweza yabeba wewe. Soma then tujadiliane

Mungu mwenye kupenda watu na uwezo wa kuzuia mabaya ataachiaje ulimwengu uende wenyewe tu na mabaya yatokee ilhali yeye ana uwezo wa kuzuia mabaya?

Kwa nini aumbe ulimwengu unaoweza kuwa na mabaya hivyo in the first place?

 

[a4afrika]

Hujajibu swali.

Why would an omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, omni benevolent godhead, who has the ability to make benevolence unconditional (else he would not be omnipotent) make benevolence conditional?

Was he exonomizing on benevolence and afraid thatbit was going to run out?

Is such a godhead who creates a universe in which bad is possible even omni benevolent?

Ndugu yangu, God being omnipotent, does not mean kuwa anaweza kujikiuka. Kama unataka kujua ni kitu gani Mungu hawezi kufanya, basi ni kuwa Kigeugeu/Kutenda kinyume na vile inavyopaswa kuwa, hilo hawezi kufanya/kujipinga! Nimekuambia MUNGU ni SHERIA. Ndio maana nimekuambia mbele za Mungu/Nature hakuna msamiati wa Unconditional grace, benevolence, etc kwani kufanya hivyo angekuwa anajipinga mwenyewe.

Nimekupa tafsiri ya Benevolence, that coz God works under rules Benevolence is a result of being obdient to God's rules.

Benevolence is conditional because the universe is conditional, because its creator is Law. Kwa sheria kwenda kinyume na sheria ni illogical and unfair. MUNGU HAWEZI KUJIPINGA!
Anaita sasa!

 

[Kiranga]

Ndugu yangu, God being omnipotent, does not mean kuwa anaweza kujikiuka. Kama unataka kujua ni kitu gani Mungu hawezi kufanya, basi ni kuwa Kigeugeu/Kutenda kinyume na vile inavyopaswa kuwa, hilo hawezi kufanya/kujipinga! Nimekuambia MUNGU ni SHERIA. Ndio maana nimekuambia mbele za Mungu/Nature hakuna msamiati wa Unconditional grace, benevolence, etc kwani kufanya hivyo angekuwa anajipinga mwenyewe.

Nimekupa tafsiri ya Benevolence, that coz God works under rules Benevolence is a result of being obdient to God's rules.

Benevolence is conditional because the universe is conditional, because its creator is Law. Kwa sheria kwenda kinyume na sheria ni illogical and unfair. MUNGU HAWEZI KUJIPINGA!
Anaita sasa!

Why does law need to be conditional?

If god is the height of what is good, and he had all the power to create whatever universe he wanted, wouldn't creating a universe in which bad is possible contradict his nature?

Umesema mungu si kigeugeu, mungu mwenye uwezo wote, ujuzi wote na uzuri wote kuumba ulimwengu ambao mabaya yanawezekana ni kuwa kigeugeu.

Na mungu ambaye hawezi kujikiuka bado anaweza yote?

Maana ushasema hawezi kujikiuka.

 

[Nonda]

Wapi? Unaweza kuniwekea link hapa?

Ulimwengu umetokea wapi?

Nani kaumba ulimwengu?

Nani alianzisha big bang?

Big bang ilitokeaje?

Utakuja tu. Zunguka lakini utakuja tu.

 

[GAUTAMA]

That is neither here nor there.

When an Expiring of the mind meets a conzanginite at the Hillpark, Me Neither...

Go to hell!

 

[Kiranga]

Hujanipa hiyo link .

Ulimwengu umetokea wapi?

Hata nikikwambia sijui jibu la swali hilo, kutojua huko hakumaanishi jibu ni kwamba ulimwengu uliumbwa na mungu. Kama unasema ulimwengu uliumbwa na mungu tuoneshe hivyo katika njia ambayo haipingiki.

Nani kaumba ulimwengu?

Kwa nini swali liwe "Nani kaumba ulimwengu" ? Unajuaje kwamba ulimwengu uliumbwa na fulani mpaka uulize "nani" na sio "nini"?

Nani alianzisha big bang?

Kwa nini nani na si nini? Big Bang ni nini?

Big bang ilitokeaje?

Nikuulize wewe uliyeleta habari za big bang. Big bang ni nini?

Utakuja tu. Zunguka lakini utakuja tu.

Kati yako wewe unayeniuliza vitu ambavyo sijavi endorse na mimi ninayekuonyesha udogo wa fikra zako za kuuliza maswali na bais za kidini nani anazunguka hapa?

 

[Kiranga]

When an Expiring of the mind meets a conzanginite at the Hillpark, Me Neither...

Go to hell!

I see you have a penchant for gobbledygook too.

Hell is fictitious.

 

[Nonda]

Hujanipa hiyo link .



Hata nikikwambia sijui jibu la swali hilo, kutojua huko hakumaanishi jibu ni kwamba ulimwengu uliumbwa na mungu. Kama unasema ulimwengu uliumbwa na mungu tuoneshe hivyo katika njia ambayo haipingiki.




Kwa nini swali liwe "Nani kaumba ulimwengu" ? Unajuaje kwamba ulimwengu uliumbwa na fulani mpaka uulize "nani" na sio "nini"?



Kwa nini nani na si nini? Big Bang ni nini?



Nikuulize wewe uliyeleta habari za big bang. Big bang ni nini?



Kati yako wewe unayeniuliza vitu ambavyo sijavi endorse na mimi ninayekuonyesha udogo wa fikra zako za kuuliza maswali na bais za kidini nani anazunguka hapa?

Hata nikikwambia sijui......hizi ndio fikira za kikwashiekor. Umma umeudhihirishia.
Hujibu maswali asilani. Kwa sababu unaogopa.

 

[Kiranga]

Hata nikikwambia sijui......hizi ndio fikira za kikwashiekor. Umma umeudhihirishia.
Hujibu maswali asilani. Kwa sababu unaogopa.

Maswali yako hayahusiani kabisa na hoja.

Hoja ni suala zima la kuwapo au kutokuwapo kwa mungu. Mungu yupo au hayupo.

Wewe unauliza ulimwengu ulianzaje, kama vile kujua ulimwengu ulivyoanza ni jibu la swali la kuwepo kwa mungu.

Mimi kutoweza kukuambia wewe ulimwengu ulivyoanza hakuna uhusiano na wewe kuthibitisha kwamba ulimwengu umeanza kwa kuumbwa na mungu.

Ushaelewa?

Mimi kushindwa kukuambia "what is the square root of two?" hakuna uhusiano na wewe kuthibitisha kwamba the square root of two is eight.

You have to show me why should I accept that the square root of two is eight.

You have to show me why should I accept that god created the universe.

You have not done that.

 

[a4afrika]

To why the law needs to be conditional, that is asking to how God got his form, i don't know, what i know the benevelonce of God is a result of being obdient to rules.

Why does law need to be conditional?

If god is the height of what is good, and he had all the power to create whatever universe he wanted, wouldn't creating a universe in which bad is possible contradict his nature?

Umesema mungu si kigeugeu, mungu mwenye uwezo wote, ujuzi wote na uzuri wote kuumba ulimwengu ambao mabaya yanawezekana ni kuwa kigeugeu.

Na mungu ambaye hawezi kujikiuka bado anaweza yote?

Maana ushasema hawezi kujikiuka.

God could never ever want to create the universe which goes against himself. So what do you mean by 'whatever universe he wanted'.

Kuna mwenzako alikuja na mfano wa Mungu kuumba jiwe zito ambalo hawezi kulinyanyua.
Ni kwamba kuwa Omnipotent haimaanishi Mungu can even do nonesenses! NJE YA MANTIKI MUNGU HAWEZI KUFANYA CHOCHOTE, kwa maana siku atakayofanya hivyo then he stops to be God!
Anaita sasa!

 

[Kiranga]

To why the law needs to be conditional, that is asking to how God got his form, i don't know, what i know the benevelonce of God is a result of being obdient to rules.!

You are basically saying that you do not know what you are talking about.

This god of yours that you tout so much here, it turns out that you do not even understand him at a very basic motivational level.

How do you expect me to accept that this god exists, if you, the one who is trying to tell me this god exists, cannot answer basic questions regarding this godhead?

God could never ever want to create the universe which goes against himself. So what do you mean by 'whatever universe he wanted'.

If god is perfection, and god has the ability to create a perfect universe, and god has the perfect love to give his creation the perfect universe, of course that god would create a perfect universe. One in which there is no Ebola for example.

Then why do we see Ebola?

Why did your perfect god, with his perfect love for his creation, and perfect ability to create a universe in which Ebola is not possible, chose to create a universe in which Ebola is possible?

Kuna mwenzako alikuja na mfano wa Mungu kuumba jiwe zito ambalo hawezi kulinyanyua.
Ni kwamba kuwa Omnipotent haimaanishi Mungu can even do nonesenses! NJE YA MANTIKI MUNGU HAWEZI KUFANYA CHOCHOTE, kwa maana siku atakayofanya hivyo then he stops to be God!
Anaita sasa!

Fine. God is not above logic. God is subject to logic.

Is this god all powerful?

You just said that he is subject to logic.

He cannot create illogical laws.

This god is not all powerful.

Moreover, even within logic, this god contradicts himself in an ungodly manner.

On the one hand he is all powerful, all loving and all knowing, on the other hand he allows a universe in which evil is possible to exist.

What gives?

 

[Lavit]

you know that satan will not last forever his end will come and i know kamruhusu kuendelea kuishi ila muda wake uliobakia ni mchache kwan ataangamizwa pamoja na wafuasi wake ktk ziwa la moto. Ila namba 2 hata mi najiuliza kwann amruhusu shetan awajaribu adam na hawa? Mungu anajua kitu kabla hakijatendeka kwann asiwasaidie kutoka ktk mtego wa nyoka, kwann ampe uwezo wa kwenda pale Eden kwann asitupwe hata mbali kwenye sayar nyingine

mungu na shetani ni story zinazojicontradict...ukiruhusu uhuru wa kufikiri wote hao hawapo!!
Tukisema magonjwa ni matokeo ya dhambi je wanyama na ndege wana dhambi gani mpaka waugue magonjwa na kufa!? Kwanini aliumba magonjwa at first place.? Ni kweli anajali na ana upendo wote!? Au alitaka kutukomoa tu, mbu, bacteria waharibifu na virus viliumbwa kwa malengo gani!?

 

[a4afrika]

Nilishakuambia kuwa God is Nature, na ASILI ni Sheria na Uwezo, so kuuliza Mungu amekuaje Sheria na Uwezo ni lako wewe hilo, kwani iko wazi hiki tunachoita Mungu kingekuwa na chanzo chake basi kisingeitwa ASILI/Mungu, Nature means something with no source, but makes operation7, labda upinge kuwa Nature sio Sheria na Uwezo, sio madai yako hayo

You are basically saying that you do not know what you are talking about.

This god of yours that you tout so much here, it turns out that you do not even understand him at a very basic motivational level.

How do you expect me to accept that this god exists, if you, the one who is trying to tell me this god exists, cannot answer basic questions regarding this godhead?



If god is perfection, and god has the ability to create a perfect universe, and god has the perfect love to give his creation the perfect universe, of course that god would create a perfect universe. One in which there is no Ebola for example.

Then why do we see Ebola?

Why did your perfect god, with his perfect love for his creation, and perfect ability to create a universe in which Ebola is not possible, chose to create a universe in which Ebola is possible?




Fine. God is not above logic. God is subject to logic.

Is this god all powerful?

You just said that he is subject to logic.

He cannot create illogical laws.

This god is not all powerful.

Moreover, even within logic, this god contradicts himself in an ungodly manner.

On the one hand he is all powerful, all loving and all knowing, on the other hand he allows a universe in which evil is possible to exist.

What gives?

What is perfection? Do you know what makes Nature perfect? Why ebola to be the determinant of God's perfection? Perfection based on how someone sticks to rules(ndio maana mtu anapofanya makosa hujitetea kutokuwa mkamilifu), so how does adherence to laws be Imperfection?

Yes, God is subject not only to Logic but also to Laws? But logic is not above God, do you know why? It is because above all is Nature, so what is above nature is nature itself, God is subject to himself, God is Logic, God is Love, God is Fairness, n.k in all above is subjected according to his laws.

Why should the powerful and all knowing God create illogical laws? Hiyo ingemfanya kuwa mbumbumbu na unfair, God is rational and Fair.

Kutoweza kuwa kigeugeu kufanye u doubt kama Nature ni omnipotent does not suit you.
Anaita sasa!

 

[mwandiga]

Mungu mwenye kupenda watu na uwezo wa kuzuia mabaya ataachiaje ulimwengu uende wenyewe tu na mabaya yatokee ilhali yeye ana uwezo wa kuzuia mabaya?

Kwa nini aumbe ulimwengu unaoweza kuwa na mabaya hivyo in the first place?

Anaacha yote hayo yatokee ili tujue uwepo wake. Ni wangapi wamekufa kwa kukosa dawa majuzi wakati watu wanaiba mabilioni na wapo wana afya njema. Wangapi wasio na hatia wamekufa kwenye vita wakati walianzisha vita hiyo kwa manufaa yao wananeemeka kwa kiuba madini. It is complicated ukitaka kuelewa kwa undani

 

[Kiranga]

Nilishakuambia kuwa God is Nature, na ASILI ni Sheria na Uwezo, so kuuliza Mungu amekuaje Sheria na Uwezo ni lako wewe hilo, kwani iko wazi hiki tunachoita Mungu kingekuwa na chanzo chake basi kisingeitwa ASILI/Mungu, Nature means something with no source, but makes operation7, labda upinge kuwa Nature sio Sheria na Uwezo, sio madai yako hayo

What is perfection? Do you know what makes Nature perfect? Why ebola to be the determinant of God's perfection? Perfection based on how someone sticks to rules(ndio maana mtu anapofanya makosa hujitetea kutokuwa mkamilifu), so how does adherence to laws be Imperfection?

Yes, God is subject not only to Logic but also to Laws? But logic is not above God, do you know why? It is because above all is Nature, so what is above nature is nature itself, God is subject to himself, God is Logic, God is Love, God is Fairness, n.k in all above is subjected according to his laws.

Why should the powerful and all knowing God create illogical laws? Hiyo ingemfanya kuwa mbumbumbu na unfair, God is rational and Fair.

Kutoweza kuwa kigeugeu kufanye u doubt kama Nature ni omnipotent does not suit you.
Anaita sasa!

Further saying "I don't know jack about this god thing".

Laws are not perfection. Laws are regulations towards perfection.

So if your god has anything to do with law, your god is imperfect.

Otherwise, why would he need laws?

 

[Kiranga]

Anaacha yote hayo yatokee ili tujue uwepo wake. Ni wangapi wamekufa kwa kukosa dawa majuzi wakati watu wanaiba mabilioni na wapo wana afya njema. Wangapi wasio na hatia wamekufa kwenye vita wakati walianzisha vita hiyo kwa manufaa yao wananeemeka kwa kiuba madini. It is complicated ukitaka kuelewa kwa undani

Kwa nini aumbe ulimwengu ambao mabaya yanaweza kuwepo hivyo in the first place?

Alishindwa kuumba ulimwengu ambao binadamu watamjua bila kuwepo mabaya?

Na kwa nini ni muhimu sana kwa mungu mwenye uwezo wote na ujuzi wote watu wamjue? Wasipomjua atakosa nini huyu mungu mwenye kila kitu?

Huyu mungu ni egomaniac anayehitaji watu wamjombe na kumsihi aiku zote ili ajisikie yeye mkubwa?

If so, hiyo idea yenu ya mungu ina matatizo ya kisaikolojia.