Is God fair ?

[Kiranga]

I think for, therefore I am thinking, installing doubts to anything and not stucking in the one hole...

That is neither here nor there.

 

[Lisa Valentine]

Hahahahaa.

I am delighted to no ends to see such an unabashedly frank and intelligently curt input.

You are right. Mayhematically and logically, the most perfect state is nothingness.

So if god is the height of perfection, there would be nothing existing, not even god.

The fact that something exist is another reason to deny the ecistence of god.

Funny. Apply it on God and let us see. Remember your funny sets might yield absurdities in the concrete objects-which is your limit logically.

 

[Kiranga]

Funny. Apply it on God and let us see. Remember your funny sets might yield absurdities in the concrete objects-which is your limit logically.

Deus ex machina.

Before you ask me to apply it on "God", prove he exists at all.

You wouldn't want me to trouble myself applying things to a nonexistent godhead now, would you?

 

[Ghosryder]

Ayubu,alipata maumivu kuliko hayo.

Lakini sababu alikuwa anjua nafasi ya shetani katika maisha yake hakurudi nyuma aliendelea kumtukuza mungu.

Hizo ni stori tu za vitabu vilivyoandikwa na watoza ushuru.

 

[Lisa Valentine]

Deus ex machina.

Before you ask me to apply it on "God", prove he exists at all.

You wouldn't want me to trouble myself applying things to a nonexistent godhead now, would you?

You are still learning, those ahead of you when they set the premises, they do defend them mathematically and logically. FYI, you had such premises with God on it, however when confronted you quickly abandoned (in style) as any amateur would have done. Below is what you had as supposition fourth line of that argument

"So if god is the height of perfection, there would be nothing existing, not even god."

Unless by god, you didn't mean God, otherwise support that argument with "mathematics" and "logic" while maintaining the the definition of God as we are.

Am waiting...

 

[Kiranga]

You are still learning, those ahead of you when they set the premises, they do defend them mathematically and logically. FYI, you had such premises with God on it, however when confronted you quickly abandoned (in style) as any amateur would have done. Below is what you had as supposition fourth line of that argument

"So if god is the height of perfection, there would be nothing existing, not even god."

Unless by god, you didn't mean God, otherwise support that argument with "mathematics" and "logic" while maintaining the the definition of God as we are.

Am waiting...

Perfection is nothingness, anything else is disturbance on that perfection.

One Thing Is Perfectly Clear: Nothingness Is Perfect - Los Angeles Times

OVER MATTER [h=1]One Thing Is Perfectly Clear: Nothingness Is Perfect[/h]December 14, 2000|K.C. COLE

• • 
    

We live in an imperfect universe. This comes as news to no one.

What may surprise people, however, is that our universe exists only because of its imperfections. In fact, when people say "nothing is perfect," they are literally correct. Nothingness--and only nothingness--is perfect. Everything else is a little bit off.

Consider the early universe--a state of pure, perfect nothingness; a formless fog of undifferentiated stuff: featureless, uniform, pure.

Perfection can actually be well-defined in physics by the idea of "perfect symmetry." It means that no matter how you try to change something, it doesn't make a difference. Look left or right, on the large scale or small, move fast or slowly, turn it upside down; it doesn't make a difference.

This is the perfect nothing we hear in utter silence, or see inside a cloud. It has no signposts, no direction, no flaws--nothing at all to make any one piece of it different from the rest.



"We have, in our minds, a tendency to accept symmetry as some kind of perfection," wrote the late physicist Richard Feynman, in his "Lectures on Physics."

The closer physicists get to understanding the fundamental laws that rule the universe, the closer to perfect symmetry they come. And yet, our universe is far from this perfect state of grace: Forces are different from particles; electrons are different from quarks; gravity is different from electricity; and matter is different from antimatter.

"The reality we observe in our laboratories is only an imperfect reflection of a deeper, more beautiful reality," writes physicist Steven Weinberg. Physicists like Weinberg are in search of an ultimate theory of physics that displays "all the symmetries" of this lost perfection.

What shattered this primordial perfection?
One likely culprit is the so-called Higgs field, the subject of an international search. If it exists, the Higgs field literally took this formless perfection and froze structure into it, the way freezing imparts crystalline structure to amorphous water.

Water is perfectly symmetrical, but ice is not. Moving up is not the same as moving sideways. Freezing destroys the sameness.

Physicist Leon Lederman compares the way the Higgs operates to the biblical story of Babel. The citizens of Babel, you may remember, all spoke the same language. When they tried to build a tower up to heaven, however, God got mad and confused their speech--so they couldn't communicate with each other.

Like God, says Lederman, the Higgs differentiated the perfect sameness, confusing everyone (physicists included).

If true, this idea has wide-ranging implications. Normally, the Higgs is invoked only to explain how particles have different masses--why a quark is heavier than an electron, for example.
But the Higgs' influence (or the influence of something like it) could reach much further.

For example, something like the Higgs--if not exactly the Higgs itself--may be behind many other unexplained "broken symmetries" in the universe as well. For example, why is electricity so different from gravity? Why is our universe made of matter but not antimatter--even though the two appear to be created in precisely equal amounts? If there are really 10 dimensions of space--as popular theories suggest--why are only three large enough for us to perceive?

The Higgs, says Fermilab physicist Joe Lykken, "potentially does a lot."
In fact, something very much like the Higgs may have been behind the collapse of the symmetry that led to the Big Bang, which created the universe. When the forces first began to separate from their primordial sameness--taking on the distinct characters they have today--they released energy in the same way as water releases energy when it turns to ice. Except in this case, the freezing packed enough energy to blow up the universe.


Feynman wondered why the universe we live in was so obviously askew. "No one has any idea why," he wrote.

Perhaps, he speculated, total perfection would have been unacceptable to God. And so, just as God shattered the perfection of Babel, "God made the laws only nearly symmetrical so that we should not be jealous of his perfection."

However it happened, the moral is clear: Only when the perfection shatters can everything else be born. In the end, we owe everything to imperfection.

 

[Nonda]

Jibi maswali kwanza.

Link zako zina kwashiokor ya fikra.

Kiranga
Hivi fikra zako hazina kwashiokor?

Utamuonaje au utamwitaje mtu atakaekwambia kuwa "computer" au "caculator" imeibuka tu from nothing, from nowhere?

 

[a4afrika]

Mabaya ni nini? Unayajuaje?

Kabla ya kwenda kwenye how.

Imekuwaje huyo mungu wako wa nature mwenye uwezo wote na ujuzi wote akaumba ulimwengu ambao mabaya yanawezekana?

Ni kwa sababu Mungu mwenyewe au ASILI ni sheria na nguvu, na kwazo ulimwengu ulifanyika. Labda kama unakataa kuwa Ulimwengu hakufanyika kwa Laws and Forces. Yaani Mungu mwenyewe ni uwezekano wa hayo mema na mabaya. MUNGU ni SHERIA, ikifuatwa au kukiukwa inatenda , kwani MUNGU ni UWEZO, kwazo ulimwengu ulifanyika.
Anaita sasa!

 

[1701]

So, you know nothing about God?

huyu dada yamemkuta,only the strong will survive,we are the subject of our own creation,hakuna mungu

 

[Kiranga]

Mabaya ni nini? Unayajuaje?

Ni kwa sababu Mungu mwenyewe au ASILI ni sheria na nguvu, na kwazo ulimwengu ulifanyika. Labda kama unakataa kuwa Ulimwengu hakufanyika kwa Laws and Forces. Yaani Mungu mwenyewe ni uwezekano wa hayo mema na mabaya. MUNGU ni SHERIA, ikifuatwa au kukiukwa inatenda , kwani MUNGU ni UWEZO, kwazo ulimwengu ulifanyika.
Anaita sasa!

Are laws and forces benevolent?

Why doesn't gravity im all its benevolence help a falling old lady?

 

[Kiranga]

Kiranga
Hivi fikra zako hazina kwashiokor?

Utamuonaje au utamwitaje mtu atakaekwambia kuwa "computer" au "caculator" imeibuka tu from nothing, from nowhere?

Mtu huyo nani?

 

[Lisa Valentine]

I will help you understand these constructs and how they fall apart when you insert into the definitions.

The LA Times article says:

Perfection is nothingness, anything else is disturbance on that perfection.

And you had this premise prior to the article posted:

"So if god is the height of perfection, there would be nothing existing, not even god."

To start with, So what is the example of nothingness according to you article?

"Consider the early universe--a state of pure, perfect nothingness; a formless fog of undifferentiated stuff: featureless, uniform, pure."

Is this true? That at one point the early universe was nothingness?

NOPE, That is not True-mathematically and logically:

If the universe was nothingness, the tremendous energy caused quantum vacuum which lead to the exist of big bang which is you might say is the source of four dimensional universe we see today. But where did this energy came from? If by nothingness you mean perfect nothingness?

K.C. COLE's example of nothingness up there is not real nothingness there was never nothing. If the universe has a finite past, its existence has a cause.

Its absurd to regard the state of quantum vacuum or original symmetry of mathematical zero as "nothingness" this is not logically or mathematically justifiable. If set up your equations to resemble the initial cosmic conditions-they lead to something not "nothingness".

Thus the perfect nothing is not in line with the understanding you are trying to associate with. Unless you grasp the meaning of perfect nothing which by all physics laws its conceivable. Imagine when you are in the airplane the speed of 400km/hr seems like nothing, wait when it hit the mountain. What about gravity waves? its nothing but its there. So nothingness is complex, even the vacuum chamber which there is nothing you can remove anymore still has something form and content.

 

[Mashaxizo]

huyu dada yamemkuta,only the strong will survive,we are the subject of our own creation, hakuna mungu

Kivipi?

 

[Kiranga]

I will help you understand these constructs and how they fall apart when you insert into the definitions.

The LA Times article says:



And you had this premise prior to the article posted:



To start with, So what is the example of nothingness according to you article?

"Consider the early universe--a state of pure, perfect nothingness; a formless fog of undifferentiated stuff: featureless, uniform, pure."

Is this true? That at one point the early universe was nothingness?

NOPE, That is not True-mathematically and logically:

If the universe was nothingness, the tremendous energy caused quantum vacuum which lead to the exist of big bang which is you might say is the source of four dimensional universe we see today. But where did this energy came from? If by nothingness you mean perfect nothingness?

K.C. COLE's example of nothingness up there is not real nothingness there was never nothing. If the universe has a finite past, its existence has a cause.

Its absurd to regard the state of quantum vacuum or original symmetry of mathematical zero as "nothingness" this is not logically or mathematically justifiable. If set up your equations to resemble the initial cosmic conditions-they lead to something not "nothingness".

Thus the perfect nothing is not in line with the understanding you are trying to associate with. Unless you grasp the meaning of perfect nothing which by all physics laws its conceivable. Imagine when you are in the airplane the speed of 400km/hr seems like nothing, wait when it hit the mountain. What about gravity waves? its nothing but its there. So nothingness is complex, even the vacuum chamber which there is nothing you can remove anymore still has something form and content.

I am afraid if you cannot comprehend nothingness as the height of perfection, and make leaps that an unknown past must have had a god, you far beyond the realm of the redeemable.

I would expect you to dispute that mathematical nothingness is not perfect. You have not done that.

Can you even prove that this god exists?

 

[Lisa Valentine]

I am afraid if you cannot comprehend nothingness as the height of perfection, and make leaps that an unknown past must have had a god, you far beyond the realm of the redeemable.

I would expect you to dispute that mathematical nothingness is not perfect. You have not done that.

Can you even prove that this god exists?

Refer to my first question to you? Did you support your argument mathematically? You brought K.C. Cole article 🙂 Nothingness is blurr there.

 

[everlenk]

Mkuu umeongea kihisia sana.

But nahisi umefanya madudu as a result blame unazipeleka kwa Mungu.

Kwanza utambue Mungu hajapanga kila kitu. Mungu kapanga mwendo wa sayari na mizunguko yake in short Galaxies.

Also kapanga systems. yaani ukifanya hivi matokeo ni vile.
(ukihitaji ufafanuzi nitafafanua.)

Mungu katoa akili kwa namna yake kutokana na kiumbe husika. na akili ndio inayohitajika iwe ni mwongozo kwa kiumbe hiko. ukipewa akili you have the power to decide. decisions zako zinakuwa bound na rules/sytem established.

Kupata ukimwi haijalishi umetembea na wangapi na badala yake ni kwamba, jee ulietembea nae yuko salama?!!!

Hope huelewi ata njia na namna ya kujikinga na ukimwi thus why unamsingizia Mungu.

Loh!! Siamini hapa kama ni wewe umetoa bonge la ushauri kama Pastor, mbona sasa unawapiga vita walokole kwenye mada zako wasisogelee?

Kwa kweli kuna mambo huwa tunamsingizia Mungu kumbe ni utashi wetu tu,Mungu anaongea na akili zetu zatupasa tuzitumie vyema,kuna mambo tuyapatayo sababu tu hatujashirikisha vizuri akili zetu,ndo maana hata Biblia yasema kila mtu hujaribiwa na tamaa zake mwenyewe na wala usiseme Mungu anamjaribu mtu maana Mungu hajaribiwi na kila mtu atavuna alichopanda.

 

[a4afrika]

Are laws and forces benevolent?

Why doesn't gravity im all its benevolence help a falling old lady?

Benevolence and Love ni matokeo ya kutii sheria, not otherwise!

Kwanini uzeeke? Why falling? Je, unajua uzee kama ilivyo kwa kifo ni matokeo ya ukiukwaji wa sheria/nature/Mungu?

Hizo sheria zingefuatwa kwa usahihi kabisa Ubaya usingekuwepo. Namaanisha hat kifo jisingekuwepo.

Anaita sasa!

 

[Kiranga]

Benevolence and Love ni matokeo ya kutii sheria, not otherwise!

Kwanini uzeeke? Why falling? Je, unajua uzee kama ilivyo kwa kifo ni matokeo ya ukiukwaji wa sheria/nature/Mungu?

Hizo sheria zingefuatwa kwa usahihi kabisa Ubaya usingekuwepo. Namaanisha hat kifo jisingekuwepo.

Anaita sasa!

So god is not benevolent?

 

[Kiranga]

Refer to my first question to you? Did you support your argument mathematically? You brought K.C. Cole article 🙂 Nothingness is blurr there.

You are not proving that a god exists, you are just prescribing god by fiat.

 

[Lisa Valentine]

You are not proving that a god exists, you are just prescribing god by fiat.

We are talking about how the height of perfection can eliminate everything including God. Dot dodge the argument. Do you know the definition of "nothingness" which Cole is linking to perfect asymmetry? Is it by anyway telling you it is elimination or lead to "non-existing" of anything? Najua hujui, nataka nikueleweshe jinsi ulivyokosea kwa premise hii below:

"So if god is the height of perfection, there would be nothing existing, not even god."

Usikimbie tulia ujifunze.