Is God fair ?

[Ishmael]

Ushahidi wa kwanza wa mtu anayetaka kucheza kwenye ignore list.

Kicking your arrogant non theist behind in debate is satisfying.

It's nice to know my arguments stand to reason, while non theists must stick their heads in the sand and lie.

 

[Ishmael]

First of all, if an omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, omni benevolent god really existed, it should have been so obvious that he wouldn't need any evidence. The fact that you need evidence is evidence that he does not exists.

Evidence is something that you should need to convict petty thiefs and mortal cases, not god.

When you need evidence to prove that god exists, you know that your god is man made.



I blew hole in this whole retort even before we start looking at the evidence.

.
Proof is virtual 100% certainty, but very few things can be proven.
You cannot prove the world is real. You cannot prove your the world is not a hallucination. You can merely give evidence.

We build criminal cases on cumulative evidence. If we had absolute proof, we would not need evidence or juries.

My philosophical proof IS a verification Dirk. Not absolute verification, but each philosophical proof is part of a cumulative case.

Think about it man. If you had to verify the verification or prove the proof, then you would end in an infinite regress. Prove the proof of the proof....

 

[Kiranga]

Kwa kuwa wewe ndiye humfahamu baba yako kwa kuwa hujui kwa nini baba yako alimchukua mama yako n kukuzaa wewe...

Hata kama hilo lingekuwa kweli, bado lisingethibitisha kwamba mungu yupo.

 

[kahtaan]

Nature ya huyo mnayemuita mungu as in omnipotence, omniscience, omnipresence and omni benevolence.

Why would a being with all those capabilities create a world capable of unspeakable evil as this?

I think those so called question of yours was Answered several times above.

Whatever GOD choose to do in this planet Earth and others IT IS HIS CHOICE.
Unfortunately you and I have NO OPTION but to take as it comes and to try to live with it.

Struggles or trials we may face in our Short life is a part of us now.

The best option we have IS NOT TO CRY for any misfortune rather to face the reality and move on.

I believe NOT ALL YOUR days are that bad Kiranga.
Some days you win and some you loose.

So ups and downs is there for a reason's my good friend.

Relax! Enjoy what God has Offered you.
Stop being arrogant and I promise you that one day all these sagas will be History.

When you and I will be in the GRAVE waiting the Judgement DAY.

I hope you will do you best now my good friend.

 

[Kiranga]

I think those so called question of yours was Answered several times above.

Whatever GOD choose to do in this planet Earth and others IT IS HIS CHOICE.
Unfortunately you and I have NO OPTION but to take as it comes and to try to live with it.

Struggles or trials we may face in our Short life is a part of us now.

The best option we have IS NOT TO CRY for any misfortune rather to face the reality and move on.

I believe NOT ALL YOUR days are that bad Kiranga.
Some days you win and some you loose.

So ups and downs is there for a reason's my good friend.

Relax! Enjoy what God has Offered you.
Stop being arrogant and I promise you that one day all these sagas will be History.

When you and I will be in the GRAVE waiting the Judgement DAY.

I hope you will do you best now my good friend.

Kabla ya kusema "whatever god chooses to do, it is his choice" thibitisha kwanza kwamba mungu yupo.

Na kwa nini iwe "his choice" na si "her choice".

Mungu wenu anaendekeza mfumodume?

Hujajibu swali, umelikwepa tu.

Swali liko pale pale.

Kwa nini mungu mwenye uwezo wote, ujuzi wote, upendo wote na uwepo pote aamue kuumba ulimwengu ambao mabaya yanawezekana wakati ambapo alikuwa na uwezo wa kuumba ulimwengu ambao mabaya hayawezekani?

Hujalijibu swali hili.

Umelikwepa kwa "deus ex machina" tu.

Putting the horse before the cart.

Unasemaje mungu anafanya atakavyo kabla hujathibitisha kwamba mungu yupo at all?

I am not being arrogant.

You who say that there is an omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent and omni benevolent god who took his time or whatever that it is he takes, and made humans in his image to rule over this world is the one who is arrogant.

In questioning this arrogant stance, i am being very humble.

 

[Ishmael]

Kabla ya kusema "whatever god chooses to do, it is his choice" thibitisha kwanza kwamba mungu yupo.

Na kwa nini iwe "his choice" na si "her choice".

Mungu wenu anaendekeza mfumodume?

Hujajibu swali, umelikwepa tu.

Swali liko pale pale.

Kwa nini mungu mwenye uwezo wote, ujuzi wote, upendo wote na uwepo pote aamue kuumba ulimwengu ambao mabaya yanawezekana wakati ambapo alikuwa na uwezo wa kuumba ulimwengu ambao mabaya hayawezekani?

Hujalijibu swali hili.

Umelikwepa kwa "deus ex machina" tu.

Putting the horse before the cart.

Unasemaje mungu anafanya atakavyo kabla hujathibitisha kwamba mungu yupo at all?

1) If we are mere chemical animals (non theism), then chemicals determine behavior for us, not free-will. Without free-will there is no right and wrong - just whatever is caused by chemicals. Even child rape is caused by natural electrochemical activity - not a choice.
2) Without an objective basis for moral values and duties, morality is an illusion of something not real. There is no OBJECTIVE basis that is not God.

 

[Ishmael]

Hata kama hilo lingekuwa kweli, bado lisingethibitisha kwamba mungu yupo.

Please stop with the sophistry. Defining non theism as something other than a position that God doesn't exist is just dishonest sophistry. Non theism is not a psychological condition of lacking belief - it is the position that God does not exist.

 

[Ishmael]

blas·phe·my/ˈblasfəmē/


[TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD]noun

1. the act or offense of speaking sacrilegiously about God or sacred things; profane talk.

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


BIBLE VERSES ABOUT BLASPHEMY

Islam and blasphemy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You have provided no objective basis (true irrespective of individual belief) whatsoever. Even child rape cannot be objectively wrong if non theism is true. If we are just chemical animals, chemicals causally determine everything. There is no free-will or choice. Why is a child rapist wrong if he has no choice? Why is one chemical illusion of morality the 'right' illusion? Why does your chemical illusion constitute a moral duty upon another chemical animal who has a different illusion of raping children as 'good' for him?

You offer no evidence to justify your belief in No God. You offer excuses for why you don't need evidence.

 

[UHURU JR]

Kabla ya kusema "whatever god chooses to do, it is his choice" thibitisha kwanza kwamba mungu yupo.

Na kwa nini iwe "his choice" na si "her choice".

Mungu wenu anaendekeza mfumodume?

Hujajibu swali, umelikwepa tu.

Swali liko pale pale.

Kwa nini mungu mwenye uwezo wote, ujuzi wote, upendo wote na uwepo pote aamue kuumba ulimwengu ambao mabaya yanawezekana wakati ambapo alikuwa na uwezo wa kuumba ulimwengu ambao mabaya hayawezekani?

Hujalijibu swali hili.

Umelikwepa kwa "deus ex machina" tu.

Putting the horse before the cart.

Unasemaje mungu anafanya atakavyo kabla hujathibitisha kwamba mungu yupo at all?

I am not being arrogant.

You who say that there is an omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent and omni benevolent god who took his time or whatever that it is he takes, and made humans in his image to rule over this world is the one who is arrogant.

In questioning this arrogant stance, i am being very humble.

Kukariri kubaya sana..we unauliza swali unajibiwa unarudisha swali nyuma tena.

 

[Kiranga]

Kukariri kubaya sana..we unauliza swali unajibiwa unarudisha swali nyuma tena.

Nimeuliza, kwa nini mungu mwenye ujuzi wote, uwezo wote na upendo wote aumbe ulimwengu ambao mabaya yanawezekana.

Jibu lake lingetoa sababu ya kueleweka, kuondoa mkanganyo wa mungu mwenye uwezo wote, ujuzi wote na upendo wote ambaye bado anaenda kuumba ulimwengu ambao mabaya yanawezekana. Huu ni mkanganyo huu, maana kimantiki mungu kama huyu angetegemewa aumbe ulimwengu ambao mabaya hayawezekani, ndiyo nature yake, mazuri, si mabaya.

Lakini sijajibiwa jibu la kuondoa mkanganyo huo.

Nimepewa changa la macho tu, kwamba "mungu anaamua anavyotaka".

Hili si jibu, hili naliita ni changa la macho, kilatini "deus ex machina" unavurugwa akili kwa kutopewa jibu, unapewa fiat ukubali kwa nguvu tu.

Nikasema kusema mungu kaamua tu si jibu la swali langu.

Swali langu si nani kaamua, swali langu si mungu kaamua au hajaamua.

Swali langu ni, kwa nini mungu kaamua hivyo? Kwa nini kaamua uamuzi ambao unapingana na yeye mwenyewe alivyo?

Sijapewa jibu, naambiwa nikubali tu.

Halafu hao hao wanaosema mungu anajiamulia tu, haingiliwi, wanasema huyu mungu anapenda kuwapa watu "free will".

Eboo, sasa itakuwaje ajiamulie tu mwenyewe halafu hapo hapo tukubali kwamba anapenda "free will"?

Kila unavyozidi kufikiri unakutana na maswali yanayoonyesha kwamba hii dhana nzima ya mungu muweza yote, mjuzi wa yote na mwenye upendo wote ni ujinga uliotungwa na binadamu tu.

Tena umetungwa na binadamu wasio na elimu, kiasi kwamba hata hii contradiction hawakuiona.

Sasa tumekuja katika the age of reason, watetezi wa huyu mungu wana kazi ya kumpachika bandeji kila anapopasuka na kutaka kuanguka under his own weight.

 

[kahtaan]

Mdau naona unazidi kuongeza mambo ambayo hayapo ktk mjadala huu na matokeo yake wote tunaonekana hatuna weledi.

Labda tuhame kidogo ktk mjadala mama nikuulize kidogo hapa.

Ni Dini gani isioruhusu kuuliza swali?

blas·phe·my/ˈblasfəmē/


[TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD]
noun

1. the act or offense of speaking sacrilegiously about God or sacred things; profane talk.

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


BIBLE VERSES ABOUT BLASPHEMY

Islam and blasphemy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

My good friend Kiranga once again you let yourself down here.

Are you telling me that you Dont know the Different between ASKING QUESTION and BLASPHEMY?

Come on now.
Are you writing things here Just for the sake of it? Or you do mean what you wrote is what you know?

How on earth someone who engaged in These kind of debate Couldn't tell the different between those Two WORDS!

I think you better call it a day.

My fellow countryman you let me down today.

 

[Kiranga]

My good friend Kiranga once again you let yourself down here.

Are you telling me that you Dont know the Different between ASKING QUESTION and BLASPHEMY?

Come on now.
Are you writing things here Just for the sake of it? Or you do mean what you wrote is what you know?

How on earth someone who engaged in These kind of debate Couldn't tell the different between those Two WORDS!

I think you better call it a day.

My fellow countryman you let me down today.

Where does asking questions end and blasphemy begin?

If I ask was Muhammad a pedophile, is that a genuine question or blasphemy?

If I ask can the Holy Spirit dance on a pin, is that a question or blasphemy?

You have not answered the question.

Why would an omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, omni benevolent god create a world in which evil is possible while he is able to create a world in which evil is not possible?

 

[UHURU JR]

Nimeuliza, kwa nini mungu mwenye ujuzi wote, uwezo wote na upendo wote aumbe ulimwengu ambao mabaya yanawezekana.

Jibu lake lingetoa sababu ya kueleweka, kuondoa mkanganyo wa mungu mwenye uwezo wote, ujuzi wote na upendo wote ambaye bado anaenda kuumba ulimwengu ambao mabaya yanawezekana. Huu ni mkanganyo huu, maana kimantiki mungu kama huyu angetegemewa aumbe ulimwengu ambao mabaya hayawezekani, ndiyo nature yake, mazuri, si mabaya.

Lakini sijajibiwa jibu la kuondoa mkanganyo huo.

Nimepewa changa la macho tu, kwamba "mungu anaamua anavyotaka".

Hili si jibu, hili naliita ni changa la macho, kilatini "deus ex machina" unavurugwa akili kwa kutopewa jibu, unapewa fiat ukubali kwa nguvu tu.

Nikasema kusema mungu kaamua tu si jibu la swali langu.

Swali langu si nani kaamua, swali langu si mungu kaamua au hajaamua.

Swali langu ni, kwa nini mungu kaamua hivyo? Kwa nini kaamua uamuzi ambao unapingana na yeye mwenyewe alivyo?

Sijapewa jibu, naambiwa nikubali tu.

Halafu hao hao wanaosema mungu anajiamulia tu, haingiliwi, wanasema huyu mungu anapenda kuwapa watu "free will".

Eboo, sasa itakuwaje ajiamulie tu mwenyewe halafu hapo hapo tukubali kwamba anapenda "free will"?

Kila unavyozidi kufikiri unakutana na maswali yanayoonyesha kwamba hii dhana nzima ya mungu muweza yote, mjuzi wa yote na mwenye upendo wote ni ujinga uliotungwa na binadamu tu.

Tena umetungwa na binadamu wasio na elimu, kiasi kwamba hata hii contradiction hawakuiona.

Sasa tumekuja katika the age of reason, watetezi wa huyu mungu wana kazi ya kumpachika bandeji kila anapopasuka na kutaka kuanguka under his own weight.

Swali langu hutaki kujibu..huu ulimwengu umepatikana vp?

Zingatia swali toa JIBU.

 

[Kiranga]

Swali langu hutaki kujibu..huu ulimwengu umepatikana vp?

Zingatia swali toa JIBU.

Nikikwambia siju, hilo ndio litathibitisha kuwapo kwa mungu?

Mimi kutokujua jibu la swali hili kunathibitishaje kuwapo kwa mungu?

Logical "non squitur".

It does not follow.

Just because I do not know the answer to this question, it does not follow that your answer must be the right one.

Just because I do not know the answer to the square root of 2, it does not mean your answer of eight is correct.

Moreover, I may know that a certain answer is wrong even without knowing the correct answer.

If I know that the quare root of two must be smaller than two, I will know that your answer of eight is wrong.

Even without knowing the right answer precisely.

Ushaelewa jinsi swali lako lisivyo na mantiki katika habari nzima ya kuthibitisha kuwepo kwa mungu?

 

[mzurimie]

Hao wengine wanatoa sadaka, wanasali, wanasaidia yatima hata maskini, wana mwogopa Mungu etc mengi na kila mtu anajua mzigo na maisha yake.

Sasa wewe unanini unafanya? Tabia zako, unaishije, ki dini pia vipi?

Ila baraka za mwenzio usimshutumu Mungu bali omba uwe utakavyo. Na weka IMANI

 

[kahtaan]

Where does asking questions end and blasphemy begin?

If I ask was Muhammad a pedophile, is that a genuine question or blasphemy?

If I ask can the Holy Spirit dance on a pin, is that a question or blasphemy?

Well its all depends on what basis did those questions came from.

If you have any GENUINE reasons to think what your question based upon for me THOSE WILL BE Just QUESTIONS.

But if your intentions is To Offend Believer's by asking those kind of Questions, then You know what the Answer will be.

Now lets go back to the main Question here.

You reject the Existence of GOD with fully confidence,
can you please Defend your Argument rather than asking the same question Repeatedly.


Thank you.

 

[UHURU JR]

Nikikwambia siju, hilo ndio litathibitisha kuwapo kwa mungu?

Mimi kutokujua jibu la swali hili kunathibitishaje kuwapo kwa mungu?

Logical "non squitur".

It does not follow.

Just because I do not know the answer to this question, it does not follow that your answer must be the right one.

Just because I do not know the answer to the square root of 2, it does not mean your answer of eight is correct.

Moreover, I may know that a certain answer is wrong even without knowing the correct answer.

If I know that the quare root of two must be smaller than two, I will know that your answer of eight is wrong.

Even without knowing the right answer precisely.

Ushaelewa jinsi swali lako lisivyo na mantiki katika habari nzima ya kuthibitisha kuwepo kwa mungu?

Unaongea vitu hata ambavyo havihusiani na swali nililokuuliza.

Jibu swali nililokuuliza.

 

[Kiranga]

Well its all depends on what basis did those questions came from.

If you have any GENUINE reasons to think what your question based upon for me THOSE WILL BE Just QUESTIONS.

But if your intentions is To Offend Believer's by asking those kind of Questions, then You know what the Answer will be.

Now lets go back to the main Question here.

You reject the Existence of GOD with fully confidence,
can you please Defend your Argument rather than asking the same question Repeatedly.


Thank you.

That is neither here nor there, wishy washy, willy nilly, namby pamby flip flop.

Exactly the reason I equate asking questions with blasphemy.

My argument defends itself.

Your god is inherently contradictory and lacks logical consistency.

Due to the unanswered question I posed.

Can you reconcile the said contradiction?

 

[Kiranga]

Unaongea vitu hata ambavyo havihusiani na swali nililokuuliza.

Jibu swali nililokuuliza.

Swali nilijibu mara ngapi.

Nishakwambia sijui.

Unajua kusoma?

 

[UHURU JR]

Swali nilijibu mara ngapi.

Nishakwambia sijui.

Unajua kusoma?

Hilo ndiyo jibu sio unauliza maswali halafu useme ndiyo jibu.

Ok umesema hujui Je,kuna uwezekano wa kwamba huu ulimwengu kutokea tu wenyewe?