Hivi akina kaka na baba JF mnaichukuliaje hii?

[Bluray]

While agreeing with your inputs, I would like to point out that it is the manner with which the discussion on this seemingly delicate matter is brought to attention and, consequently proposed solutions. Liberals have had the propensity to indulge in this with the view of a man as a culprit-humbleness almost lost in the belief in 'end male chauvinism now' slogans and the like. In that case, you can fairly predict a dead end to these kind of discusion.

Of course tact, understanding, genuine love and a high degree of painstaking deliberation must be engaged to ensure that this elevate gender relations in a meaningful way, and does not degenerate the whole discussion into a gender war.Some amongst the feminist seem to get their information from the wrong sources, particularly the source emanating an overly militant brand of feminism - there was a NYT article about communities banning males in their premises- these hippie chicks allowing their mostly mid life crises to be thinly disguised as feminism are giving a bad name to true feminist.I believe - and I wrote in a separate thread here- that a true feminist must be comfortable with and in fact love all genders, and be balanced enough to see good and bad in all genders, for as much as there phrase "male chauvinism" is abundantly used, there are enough "female chauvinist" some even self admitting ones, to share the responsibility of the sad condition of gender relations.On the question of liberals and liberality, the vastness of the definition of these broadly used terminology may render any response to your perceived brand of liberals a futile exercise in miscommunication. My version may not necessarily be the same as yours.I may be drawing from the well of classical liberalism and indeed even libertarianism to propagate these positions, while I suspect your are referring to modern liberals.

And I hope you will also agree that practicality of matters matter, principles aside, and that there is nothing like 'equality' in the strict sense...responsibilities will tend to differ in spatial and temporal dimensions and it is thus imperative not to be lured in the liberal concepts of equality even in issues where their practicality can be critically questioned.

Among the dimensions you mentioned, I believe the arrow of time has shown a tendency to give favor to principle over practicality, if the prionciples are not too impractical, and I believe these principles are not that impractical.the molasses of tradition are too strong for these things to change in a generation or two.the west did not allow it's women to work at all, until after the industrial revolution and particularly after WW2 when it became economically inevitable for women to join the workforce, women were mostly relegated to household chores. i believe these principles will converge with economic interests to form a more balanced society just as the principle of anti slavery converged with the industrial revolution to help succumb slavery to the dustbin of history. I believe the practicality of equality is unquestionable, what is questionable is whether our society can muster the integrity to swallow it's traditional pride and allow people to be equal.Basically the argument here can be reduced to a nugget asking "Are women equal to men?". I refuse not to answer that question in the affirmative for I will put myself in the same position that the slavemaster, due to his economic interest, affirmed blacks to be three thirds of humans.If you say women are not equal to men, then you are faced with a more difficult question asking how inferior are they, of course this question is very wrong and should not be entertained, traditions or not.

If you are going to base all your thinking on practicality you will never progress, progress is based on a constant challenging of what is practical and what is not practical.If you were to base society on practicality Tanzania would probably still be colonized and slavery would still be legal.Such are the dangers of abandoning principle for the comforts of practicality. Benjamin Franklin said "Those who give up their liberty for more security deserve neither liberty nor security". Let's not give up the liberty of living a life of principle for the security of convention and practicality.If man was basing all his life on practicality there would be no scientific nor other progress.

Well, on my side..I dont think I need to be 'modern'..the house maid can stay-save for the fact that she may need some times off- to see how a devoting father I am!

My focus was not whether the house maid stays or go, but how was that decision reached.Was that decision reched collectively as a family or it is one of those "jikoni ni sehemu ya mama" philosophies?

Say you both are professionals with equally demanding jobs, relegating jikoni to mama -even if it is only for directing the chores- can give her more than her share of the housework.

I brough the point of utilitarianism for people who agree on this matter, as long as your family agrees I don't see any harm.But if the mama is suffering inside - by the overburdening responsibilities of directing the house maid, then this would come across as not fair.

Agreed, but again, it is also how you involve the father and others in housework...

My whole piece was about involving everybody in a very amicable family bonding way, never the militancy of some extreme brands of feminism.

 

[Oxlade-Chamberlain]

thats wat i wanted to hear kumbe mnaona raha eeee mkifanyiwa na wake zenu? basi na nyie mjue kuwashukuru na kuonyesha appriciation kwa wake zenu ili na wao wajisikie raha kama nyie mnavyojisikia.

mimi binafsi huwa namshukuru kwani kusema ukweli anajitahidi sana kuanzia chakula mpaka usafi na mapenzi.kwahio ni vigumu kwangu kumfata mwanamke mwingine kwani nahisi sitopata huduma kama ninazo pata kwa mke wangu na matokeo yake nitampoteza.

 

[BAK]

hahaha beki tatu zina kila talent basi huwa hatujui. Mimi wangu lazima nimtoe kila weekend akatembelee ndugu zake kazi anakuta nimefanya ajue kuwa naweza siyo kama asipokuwepo basi nimezubaa. Kutandika kitanda na usaifi wa chumba marufuku,nikiona uvivu wa kufanya hayoa nafunga chumba naondoka kabla mume hajarudi nakuwa nimeshafanya kila kitu.

Wanawake mwiko kuwaruhusu beki kutingia vyumbani wanaume siku hizi aibu hawana ikistand tu utakuta kafanya k2 mbaya uanze lawama na HG

Fatu! Fatu! Fatu! Kitanda leo hujatandika vizuri njoo huku utandike tena!. Fatu huyo mpaka chumbani ili akatandike kitanda vizuri ili kumridhisha Baba mwenye nyumba. Mama mwenye nyumba hayupo hapo. Njemba inarudi imeshatingisha nyavu ha ha ha ha inachonga mzinga na kutafuta nafasi ya kurudi nyumbani wakati mama mwenye nyumba hayupo ili akamwambie Fatu kitanda hakijatandikwa vizuri ha ha ha ha.

Kuna shughuli nyingine ndani ya nyumba kwa kweli hazistahili kabisa kuachiwa msaidizi wa nyumbani pamoja na kuchoka lakini bado mama mwenye nyumba anaweza kuzifanya au ukilegalega basi Fatu anaweza kukupiku na penzi la Baba mwenye nyumba likahamia kwa Fatu.

 

[Nyamayao]

Wengi mbona wana heshima zao na wana nyadhifa kubwa katika jamii wanamegwa na mahouse boy wengine wamediliki kuzaa nao pindi uhondo unapo pitiliza mpaka kisogoni.

wapo sana tu na ninayo mifano hai kibao, kwangu mie hiyo haina nafac aise, kwanza ninae mtoto wa mume wangu wa ujanani kwake, so anajua/nimemfahamisha mtoto mwenye umri chini ya wangu cmpokei ndani kwangu,akaanzishe familia yake mpya, na hapo labda kajizalia nje tu sasa aje azae na housegal haa mie kwangu aise hiyo ni dharau tosha, cmdharau housegal kwamba sio mwanamke kamili bali hiyo mr atakuwa amenichezea rafu ya kutosha, yaani hapo hapo ndani anizunguke kihivyo?

 

[Nyamayao]

Hehehehe Mwana wewe una house girl?
Kama unae basi fanya mikakati endelevu kama mwenzio Nyamayao ana houseboy muulize kwa nini anae huyo badala ya house girl? Aligundua mzee atamega au alisha mega. Mnashare kujiexpress na house girl libeneke kama na burudani inaendelea.

cjawahi kuwa na housegal Fidel...na wala nikiwa nae ctaacha kufanya mambo yangu nifikirie mmegano wao, na wangefanya lakini nicwakute coz mr anajua kasheshe yake.

 

[agika]

My whole piece was about involving everybody in a very amicable family bonding way, never the militancy of some extreme brands of feminism.

Thank you guys Bluray and Keizer, you gave me the extra knowledge to use in the future, coz now i just have two years old son so its not that big family atleast not yet, but you gave me another insight on this particular subject.
Thank you very much

 

[agika]

wapo sana tu na ninayo mifano hai kibao, kwangu mie hiyo haina nafac aise, kwanza ninae mtoto wa mume wangu wa ujanani kwake, so anajua/nimemfahamisha mtoto mwenye umri chini ya wangu cmpokei ndani kwangu,akaanzishe familia yake mpya, na hapo labda kajizalia nje tu sasa aje azae na housegal haa mie kwangu aise hiyo ni dharau tosha, cmdharau housegal kwamba sio mwanamke kamili bali hiyo mr atakuwa amenichezea rafu ya kutosha, yaani hapo hapo ndani anizunguke kihivyo?

mummy hapa sijapaelewa bado hebu elaborate please!
shost mkali sikuwezi inabidi usijifunze karate maana huyo bwana atakuwa na manundu mwili mzima hahahhahha

 

[Nyamayao]

mummy hapa sijapaelewa bado hebu elaborate please!
shost mkali sikuwezi inabidi usijifunze karate maana huyo bwana atakuwa na manundu mwili mzima hahahhahha

mami wakati naolewa nilimkuta mr na mtoto wake wa ujanani, so nipo nae kama mwanangu na ndio mwanae wa kwanza nitasema wangu ni wa pili, sasa mtoto mwenye umri chini ya watoto wangu ctamtambua kwa lolote, aende akaanzishe familia yake huko, ndio nikasema hapo labda kajichukulia tu mwanamke huko mtaani akazaa nae ctamtambua mtoto ndio ije housegal ambaye wamefanya juu chini kunizunguka? oooh hapana!

 

[Kaizer]

mami wakati naolewa nilimkuta mr na mtoto wake wa ujanani, so nipo nae kama mwanangu na ndio mwanae wa kwanza nitasema wangu ni wa pili, sasa mtoto mwenye umri chini ya watoto wangu ctamtambua kwa lolote, aende akaanzishe familia yake huko, ndio nikasema hapo labda kajichukulia tu mwanamke huko mtaani akazaa nae ctamtambua mtoto ndio ije housegal ambaye wamefanya juu chini kunizunguka? oooh hapana!

heheheh Nyamayao, apa unasema tu, usipomtambua ndo ataacha kuwa mtoto wake ama vipi? kwani huyo wa 'ujanani' anakupa kichefuchefu? mtoto ni mtoto jamani...na akienda kuanzisha familia huko the way unavosema hapa, ndo tatizo litakuwa limetatulika?

 

[agika]

mami wakati naolewa nilimkuta mr na mtoto wake wa ujanani, so nipo nae kama mwanangu na ndio mwanae wa kwanza nitasema wangu ni wa pili, sasa mtoto mwenye umri chini ya watoto wangu ctamtambua kwa lolote, aende akaanzishe familia yake huko, ndio nikasema hapo labda kajichukulia tu mwanamke huko mtaani akazaa nae ctamtambua mtoto ndio ije housegal ambaye wamefanya juu chini kunizunguka? oooh hapana!

hapo nimekupata dear , na huo ndo ukweli wenyewe hivi wapo wanokubali watoto wa nje ambao wamezaliwa ndani ya ndoa? uuuwwwwwwwiiiiii hakyanani ntachinja mtu aiseee

 

[Fidel80]

cjawahi kuwa na housegal Fidel...na wala nikiwa nae ctaacha kufanya mambo yangu nifikirie mmegano wao, na wangefanya lakini nicwakute coz mr anajua kasheshe yake.

Hehehehe hakuna kitu kibaya na kinauma kama kujua.
Naamini Nyamayao wewe ni mtu wa bifu na mtimbwili munene du unapiga chuma nini?

 

[Nyamayao]

Hehehehe hakuna kitu kibaya na kinauma kama kujua.
Naamini Nyamayao wewe ni mtu wa bifu na mtimbwili munene du unapiga chuma nini?

me sio mtu wa bifu kabisa ila cpendi kunyanyacka aisee.

 

[Fidel80]

me sio mtu wa bifu kabisa ila cpendi kunyanyacka aisee.

Unapigania haki yako mpaka kieleweke.
Lakini unachunguliaje akina baba kutembea na mahouse girl?
Kuna siku nilisikia kuna mama mmoja analalamika siku alimfuma mmewe saa 11 asubuhi anamega house girl bafuni yeye alijua kaamuka anajiandaa kuwahi kazini kumbe jamaa anajiexpress kiaina.

 

[zomba]

Pale mkeo au mwenzio anapomwachia housegirl kila kazi hata weekend? kutandika kitanda, kukupikia, kukutarayirishia chakula mezani, maji ya kuoga mhhhh.....................ndio uzungu au sie wengine tumepitwa na wakati😕?

Hizo si ndio baadhi ya kazi za House Girl, kama hafanyi kazi hizo ana faida gani kuajiriwa?

Hili la uzungu lina uhusiano upi na ajira ya house girl? kama si ubaguzi wa rangi?

 

[agika]

Hizo si ndio baadhi ya kazi za House Girl, kama hafanyi kazi hizo ana faida gani kuajiriwa?
Hili la uzungu lina uhusiano upi na ajira ya house girl? kama si ubaguzi wa rangi?

Mwe!!!😕 hili nalo dogo lakini zito,
nimetumia tu neno uzungu lakini namaanisha usasa, mkuuu usinshukie namna hiyo bana mwenzio machozi yangu yako karibu🙁

 

[agika]

heheheh Nyamayao, apa unasema tu, usipomtambua ndo ataacha kuwa mtoto wake ama vipi? kwani huyo wa 'ujanani' anakupa kichefuchefu? mtoto ni mtoto jamani...na akienda kuanzisha familia huko the way unavosema hapa, ndo tatizo litakuwa limetatulika?

weeee keizer nawe acha hizo mnaonaga raha tu kujimuvuzisha huko nje bila ya kutumia kinga , mpate vitoto mje kutuletea kwenye ndoa maana ushaniona mie mlezi wa watoto wa nje , unikome ntakubalasa hapa na kibaha

 

[zomba]

Mwe!!!😕 hili nalo dogo lakini zito,
nimetumia tu neno uzungu lakini namaanisha usasa, mkuuu usinshukie namna hiyo bana mwenzio machozi yangu yako karibu🙁

Hakuna usasa wala uzamani katika ajira za house girl, walikuwapo toka enzi na enzi, labda tu, walikuwa wakijulikana kwa majina mengine ya ajira, kwa mfano, kijakazi, mtumishi wa ndani, house maid, wasaidizi wa nyumbani, dada, mtumwa, na kwa hili hata ma House boy ni mambo ya enzi na enzi na sioni usasa wala uzamani.

Ajira yao inabidi wayafanye yote ulioainisha na hayo ni baadhi ya kazi zao tu.

Kama unajingine ungetuweka wazi tu, kwa haya sidhani kama yana hitaji mjadala, kwani kama hizo kazi hazifanyi house girl naye kaajiriwa na analipwa kwa hayo, azifanye nani?

Samahani kama unahisi nimekushukia, nilikuwa sioni mantiki ya uzungu na kuwa na msaidizi wa nyumbani.

 

[Barubaru]

Kazi kweli kweli

 

[agika]

Hakuna usasa wala uzamani katika ajira za house girl, walikuwapo toka enzi na enzi, labda tu, walikuwa wakijulikana kwa majina mengine ya ajira, kwa mfano, kijakazi, mtumishi wa ndani, house maid, wasaidizi wa nyumbani, dada, mtumwa, na kwa hili hata ma House boy ni mambo ya enzi na enzi na sioni usasa wala uzamani.

Ajira yao inabidi wayafanye yote ulioainisha na hayo ni baadhi ya kazi zao tu.

Kama unajingine ungetuweka wazi tu, kwa haya sidhani kama yana hitaji mjadala, kwani kama hizo kazi hazifanyi house girl naye kaajiriwa na analipwa kwa hayo, azifanye nani?

Samahani kama unahisi nimekushukia, nilikuwa sioni mantiki ya uzungu na kuwa na msaidizi wa nyumbani.

usijali kunishukia was just a joke.
but turudi kwenye point inategemeana na utamaduni na mazingira mliyopo kama mko west hivi vitu ni kawaida lakini ukiwa bongo kwa mazingira tuliyonayo ukimwachia mfanyakazi atandike mpaka kitanda na afue boxer za mumeo thats tooo much kwa utamaduni wetu inakuwa kama vile hamna privacy, hiyo ni kiutamaduni lakini kimshahara pia tuwe wawazi jamani mishahara tunayowalipa mahouse gal haitoshi japo wanakula na kulala kwetu so hata kumsaidia vijikazi vidogovidogo kama hivyo inastahili , unaclaim kwamba hizo kazi afanye kwasababu ndo maana analipwa mshahara hebu niambie wako unampa mshahara kiasi gani? na pia ushajaribu kufanya kazi ambazo anazifanya yeye peke yake ukiwa home japo weekend uone kasheshe yake ? utalalamika mpaka basi siku hiyo topic itakuwa wewe kuchoka kwasababu ya kazi kila ukikaaa jamani kiuno..... nimefanya kazi leo mara mgongo mhhhh ukweli unabaki palepale hatuwalipi wafanyakazi kulingangana na kazi wanazozifanya majumbani kwetu.
SO TELL ME HOW MUCH YOU PAY HER OTHERWISE STOP BEING DEFENCIVE EN CONSIDER THEM AS HUMANBEINGS

 

[Nyamayao]

heheheh Nyamayao, apa unasema tu, usipomtambua ndo ataacha kuwa mtoto wake ama vipi? kwani huyo wa 'ujanani' anakupa kichefuchefu? mtoto ni mtoto jamani...na akienda kuanzisha familia huko the way unavosema hapa, ndo tatizo litakuwa limetatulika?

nisome taratibu mr wangu, wa ujanani kwake ni kama mwanangu wa kumzaa mwenyewe, nampenda sana hana tofauti na wangu wa kumzaa, atakaetokea sasa nje yangu mie huyo ctamtambua, babake amtambue na waendelee na maisha yao.