Errors in genesis

einstein newton said:

ulimwengu una sheria zake mkuu
na hizo sheria ndiyo zinazo ufanya uwe kama ulivyo

kila system katika ulimwengu ina obey hizo sheria na kamwe hazibadilika

makosa yote unayoyaona katika kisa hicho cha uumbaji ni makosa ambayo waandishi wa biblia waliyafanya kutokana na uelewa wao finyu wa hizo sheria

kama wewe unapenda kujifunza kuliko ubishi,basi nenda kasome mwanzo chapter one,pamoja na mwanzo chapter two halafu vilinganishe,utajua nini ninacho maanisha

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Hizo sheria zimetoka wapi? Usiseme tu sheria tuambie source ya hizo sheria, nan mwanzilishi?

Paa said:

Mpendwa einstein newton na maatheist wenzio kina Jimena, jambo moja kubwa ambalo lilifanya, linafanya na litaendelea kufanya muendelee kubishana(argue for and against each other) bila kufikia muafaka ni kuwa;
>upande mmoja(ninyi maatheist) mnakubali na kukiamini kitu/jambo endapo kitakuwa logically expressive plus kiwe/liwe na some scientifical evidences and proofs(kwa ukomo wa kufikiri kwenu),
>lakini kwa upande wa pili Sisi tumaomwamini MUNGU hatuhitaji kutumia nguvu nyingi/kusumbua akili zetu kuamini/kukubali(ana na) jambo, ni IMANI tu(kuwa na hakika ya mambo yatarajiwayo bayana na yasiyoonekana) ndiyo inafanya kazi hapa.

Kwahiyo kaeni mkiyafahamu haya.

Kwakuwa tunaokolewa kwa NEEMA, bado sishangai, time is our most teller, lets wait and see. Goodluck
Ahsateni.

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Mkuu Paa nakubaliana na wewe moja kwa moja kuwa mnaamini tu wala hamna hakika na hamjishughulishi kujua kama ni kweli au sio kweli, na kwa bahati nzuri mimi pamoja wenzangu wengi tunafahamu hilo. Tatizo ni pale mtu anaeamini mambo yatarajiwayo (hana hakika na anachoamini) anavyojifanya yuko right......ye ndo mtakatifu......ye ndo kila kitu mana ye amekariri mandiko hili ndo linalopelekea hii mijadala kutoisha, laiti kama waumini wangekuwa na uelewa japo kidogo basi ni wazi kuwa tusingekuwa tuna hii mijadala
Cc aretasludovick Free ideas miss you brother, mkuu Bennie 369 hujaonekana kabisaa,

Jimena said:

Mkuu Paa nakubaliana na wewe moja kwa moja kuwa mnaamini tu wala hamna hakika na hamjishughulishi kujua kama ni kweli au sio kweli, na kwa bahati nzuri mimi pamoja wenzangu wengi tunafahamu hilo. Tatizo ni pale mtu anaeamini mambo yatarajiwayo (hana hakika na anachoamini) anavyojifanya yuko right......ye ndo mtakatifu......ye ndo kila kitu mana ye amekariri mandiko hili ndolinalopelekea hii mijadala kutoisha, laiti kama waumini wangekuwa na uelewa japo kidogo basini wazi kuwatusingekuwa tuna hii mijadala
Cc aretasludovick Free ideas miss you brother, mkuu Bennie 369 hujaonekana kabisaa,

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Umenielewa vibaya....nimesema "KUWA NA HAKIKA YA MAMBO YATARAJIWAYO BAYANA NA YASIYOONEKANA"

Nina uhakika na ninachokiamini kwakuwa miujiza na maajabu ya KIMUNGU ni dhahiri kabisa.

Ina maana waumini wote na wafuasi wa Yesu Kristo duniani kote, watu zaidi ya milioni elfu moja hawana uelewa?

Paa said:

Umenielewa vibaya....nimesema "KUWA NA HAKIKA YA MAMBO YATARAJIWAYO BAYANA NA YASIYOONEKANA"

Nina uhakika na ninachokiamini kwakuwa miujiza na maajabu ya KIMUNGU ni dhahiri kabisa.

Ina maana waumini wote na wafuasi wa Yesu Kristo duniani kote, watu zaidi ya bilioni elfu moja hawana uelewa h?

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Miujiza na maajabu ya kimungu bado sijafanikiwa kuyaona mkuu.

Wamerithishwa imani kama ulivyorithishwa wewe, wanaogopa kuhoji mana wamekatazwa kwasababu watakufuru au Mungu hachunguziki.
Kama unaamini kwa kufata mkumbo hilo nalo ni tatizo jingine mkuu, Hivyo waumini kuwa kwao bilioni au elfu we haikusaidii chochote na wala haimaanishi kuwa wako sawa.

Jimena said:

Miujiza na maajabu ya kimungu bado sijafanikiwa kuyaona mkuu.

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Na kusikia bado?

Wamerithishwa imani kama ulivyorithishwa wewe, wanaogopa kuhoji mana wamekatazwa kwasababu watakufuru au Mungu hachunguziki.
Kama unaamini kwa kufata mkumbo hilo nalo ni tatizo jingine mkuu, Hivyo waumini kuwa kwao bilioni au elfu we haikusaidii chochote na wala haimaanishi kuwa wako sawa.

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Ni kweli MUNGU hachunguziki ndio maana ninyi kwa ugumu wa mioyo yenu mnakaza shingo zenu tu japo hichi nikisemacho kinajidhihirisha. Lets wait and see

Paa said:

Na kusikia bado?



Ni kweli MUNGU hachunguziki ndio maana ninyi kwa ugumu wa mioyo yenu mnakaza shingo zenu tu japo hichi nikisemacho kinajidhihirisha. Lets wait and see

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Bado sijasikia zilizopo ni hadithi za kusadikika tu


Anachunguzika sana tu, unadhani angekuwa hachunguziki tungejuaje kuwa hayupo? Si tungeamini tu kila tunachosikia pasipo kuhoji matokeo yake tungekuwa kama akina nyie.

einstein newton said:

I second you brother,lakini kuna baadhi ya watu wanajifanya vipofu hata kushindwa kuona makosa rahisi kama haya.

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I see hizi ishu za kuumbwa kwa ulimwengu si rahisi kueleweka saana.

Ni kweli sayansi inasema kuhusu memea utuamiavyo mwanga wa jua kujitengenezea chakula nk.

Nafirikia pia tuzidi jiuliza na kujifunza zaidi...hata sayansi imeshindwa kuproove shortcut ya kupatikanankwa binadamu.
mfano kama wote twajua binadamu hupatikanaje ni process inayo husiana na mme na mke wakutane na ujauzito utungwe na kulelewa hadi azaliwapo kichasha na kuanza nyonyaa nk.

Waamini twaamini Binadamu aliumbwa ndipo akapewa uwezo wa kuzaa na kwa taratibu zoote. Japo pia ipo nguvu ya Muumba inayoweza fanya chochote pasipo kufuata principles zilizo hakikiwa kisayansi nk.

Katika hali ya kawaida sijui sayansi imeona gundua nini au jibu ya swali hili kati ya Yai na Kuku kipi kimetangulia?!

Waamini wanaendelea amini na kuwa na hakika na wanachoamini kwamba Muumba aliumba wanyama, ndege, wadudu na kila unachokijua na usichokijua...na kisha akaviwekea utaratibu vyenyewe kujiendeleza/kuzaliana pasipo yeye kuhusika moja kwa moja...basi hata hivyo binafsi naamini Kuku ndie alianza umbwa maana hakuna sehemu imeandikwa yai limeumbwa na kisha kuku lah hasha ninavyo amini mimi ni Kuku aliumbwa na akapewa uwezo wa kuzaliana kwa njia hiyo ya kutaga yai na kulitamia kutokoa kisha akaongezeka kwa namna hiyo.
Kibinadamu waweza ona kuna errors (makosa) ila Kiungu hakuna hata chembe ya mashaka...kati ya yai na kuku.

Pana chombo kimetumwa kwenda sayari ya Pluto kinaitwa new horizon kama sikosei nimepata habari hicho kifaa kikipata hitirafu kinajitengeneza chenyewe pasipo msaada wa mwanadamu huenda error ikawa 1% ya kushindwa kijitibu chenyewe. Kumbuka na hiyo ni man made ....vipi kuhusu creater mwenye Mungu Mwenyezi si zaidi ya mwanadamu?!

Mimi sijaona errors yeyote kwenye genesis
Labda inabidi tusome saana maandiko ya awali ya kigiriki au kiebrania maana hizi Biblia siku hizi wanajaribu leta tafsiri nyepesi pasipo kuharibu maana ila pana radha flani hivi inapotea...so jaribu tafuta biblia tofauti kisha soma andiko moja uone ni kwa jinsi gani zinatofautiana.

Maana hata Yesu kristo alizaliwa na Bikria so wapuuzi wana shangaa alibebaje ujauzito huyo mama yake!?

Principles za kibinadama ni sharti kuwepo kwa muingiliano wa mume na mke ndipo ujauzito utokee LAKINI kwa Mungu Muumbaji si lazima afuate kabuni hizo.

Kumbuka Bahari ya sham ilivyotengeneza njia, mwamba kutoa maji, Yesu kutokea ndani ya watu wakiwa wamejifungia ndani (wachawi pia wanaweza hiyo trick)
Na mambo mengi ambayo kutokea kwake ni utategemea kuona kanuni flani zimefuatwa ila kwa BWANA MUNGU anafanya kama apendavyo.

Bado sijaona errors kwene mwanzonwa Ulimwengu...ila maswali ni Mengi twaweza jiuliza...


Panasehemu flani katina Biblia panasomeka hivi;-

Ni utukufu wa Mungu kuficha jambo, na niufahali wa mfalme (wewe na mimi) kuchunguza jambo. Mithali 25:2

So Mungu ameficha sisi wafalme wacha tuendelee kuchunguza.

Lakini kwingine kuna sema;

29Mambo ya siri ni ya BWANA, Mungu wetu; lakini mambo yaliyofunuliwa ni yetu sisi na watoto wetu milele, ili tuyafanye maneno yote ya sheria hii.KUMBUKUMBU LA TORATI/SHERIA 29:29

Kila lenye heri wadadisi na wachunguza Mambo!!

einstein newton said:

"nalitukuka tokea milele,tangu awali kabla haijawako dunia
wakati visipokuwako vilindi NALIZALIWA
wakati zisipokuwako chemchemi zilizojaa maji
kabla ya milima haijawekwa imara
kabla ya vilima NALIZALIWA"


mithali 8:23-25


kitabu cha "mithali",kimeandikwa na mfalme solomon,lakini hapa si yeye anayezungumza maneno haya kwasababu kulingana na biblia hakuna mwanadamu mwenye sifa hizo hapo kasoro sifa moja tu ya KUZALIWA

basi bila shaka huyu anayezungumza hapa ni yesu ambaye pia ni mungu(ref to holy trinity theory)
neno KUZALIWA limejirudia mara mbili kuonyesha msisitizo
kuzaliwa ni mwanzo wa maisha huo ndiyo ukweli uliyo wazi

lakini Mungu hana mwanzo wala mwisho,sasa iweje azaliwe?

ndugu "1954tanu" tunaomba majibu tafadhali.

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Yohana Mtakatifu 1:1-3, 14. Kwa kuangalia maandiko kifasihi huwezi toka wala kuelewa. Kama mbingu na nchi zilivyo mbali ndivyo mawazo na uweza wa Mungu ulivyo mbali na akili zetu.

1954tanu said:

Yohana Mtakatifu 1:1-3, 14. Kwa kuangalia maandiko kifasihi huwezi toka wala kuelewa. Kama mbingu na nchi zilivyo mbali ndivyo mawazo na uweza wa Mungu ulivyo mbali na akili zetu.

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Mkuu kwahiyo wewe huna jibu?hii ndiyo tunayoiita blind faith..!

1954tanu said:

Yohana Mtakatifu 1:1-3, 14. Kwa kuangalia maandiko kifasihi huwezi toka wala kuelewa. Kama mbingu na nchi zilivyo mbali ndivyo mawazo na uweza wa Mungu ulivyo mbali na akili zetu.

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hapa bado sijaelewa una maanisha nini?... maana hiyo mistari uliyoitaja inazungumzia habari za hapo mwanzo kuwepo kwa neno ambaye alifanyika mwili... .. .

einstein newton said:

sikutegemea kama bado kuna watu wanatatizwa na egg-chicken-problem

anyway yai ndiyo kitu cha kwanza kwasababu ya recombination of gene
lakini hapa si mahala pake

kuhusu point yako ya logic,
principle za logic ni universal hakuna ya muumbaji wala ya muumbwa

huwezi kuwa na effect kabla ya cause,hii undeniable fact

hauwezi kupata usiku na mchana,bila ya jua na dunia

ukisema kitabu cha mwanzo kipo logically sahihi,basi utakuwa mistaken kwasababu genesis imelack causal mechanism.

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very funny kwa avatar uliyonayo cina swali juu ya post and comment zako, kuna vitu via humans perception and understanding not easy to know

einstein newton said:

you are correct!

but think this for moment,if something can never be detected in any way,then in principle it doesn't logically exist
so do you still believe that genesis story of creation is not a myth?

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Mkuu nahisi hukumwelewa Makanyaga hebu msome tena taratibu.

einstein newton said:

wakristo wengi wanaamini kuwa mpangilio wa matukio katika kitabu cha "mwanzo" ni scientifically accurate...si kweli

hauhitaji professor wa fizikia kutambua makosa yaliyomo katika kisa hicho cha uumbaji

mfano,mwanzo 1:3-5
"Mungu akatenga nuru na giza,mungu akaiita nuru mchana,na giza akaliita usiku"

uwepo wa mchana na usiku unategemea uhusiano wa vitu viwili,jua na dunia
lakini kulingana na biblia,jua pamoja na nyota zote ziliumbwa siku ya nne(ref;mwanzo 1:14-19)

sasa usiku na mchana vilikujaje siku ya kwanza?

mwanzo 1:9-13

Mungu anaumba majani,miche itoayo mbegu na miti katika siku ya tatu

kwa utashi wa kawaida tu,hakuna mmea unaoweza kuishi bila photosynthesis.Mojakati ya requrements muhimu ya photosynthesis ni mwanga wa jua,lakini jua liliumbwa siku moja
baadae

mwanzo 1:14-19

Mungu anaumba mianga(chazo cha mwanga) miwili mikubwa yaani mwezi na jua,kisha mwezi utawale usiku

lakini mwezi hautengenezi mwanga wake bali unaakisi mwanga unaotoka kwenye jua

wakristo mnahitajika hapa tafadhali!

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Kiongozi, ukiisoma kwa makini biblia sehemu hiyo ya mwanzo kuna jambo unaweza kuelewa vizuri, soma ukiwa neutral bila kuwa na mawazo ya kupinga.

utagundua yafuatayo:
1. mchana na usiku viliumbwa kwanza katika form tofauti na ya kutegemea rotation ya dunia ambayo katika hali ya kawaida kwetu bado ni undefined lakini ni swala la muda tu kisayansi wa binadamu.

2. baadae Mungu aliumba Rasmi mianga spacial kwaajiri ya kuiangaza dunia pekeyake(jua na Mwezi).

kwakuwa hata sayansi haijawahi kudefine clearly begining of natural being ya Dunia, despite ya big bang na evolution of species bado jibu linabakia kuwa formation ya dunia na uhai ni from the super natural source ambayo ndio Biblia imeisema na sayansi imeshindwa kuisema.

Mungu ndiye Muumba wa Dunia na vyote vilivyomo na sayansi ni sawa na upeo wa kinyago kujaribu kumchunguza kwa kina tu mchongaji yaani bado tunajua chembe ya moja ya mchanga wa bahari bado hatujui kitu kisayansi kuhusu creation.

einstein newton said:

you are correct!

but think this for moment,if something can never be detected in any way,then in principle it doesn't logically exist
so do you still believe that genesis story of creation is not a myth?

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Something not logically existing does not mean that it REALLY does not exist. Ndiyo maana wasomi pia wanaenda kwa waganga wa kienyeji, ambao wengine hawajui hata aeiou. Ni kutokana na hii discrepancy kwamba logic inaonyesha kuwa hiki kitu hakipo lakini reality inakuwa prven kwa mganga wa kienyeji kwamba kina-exist!. Kwenye logic yako umejaza vitu vile tu ambavyo unavifahamu na ulishawahi kuviona, kwa vitu vile ambavyo ama huvijui au hujawahi kuviona/kuviskia, havipo kwenye logic yako, lakini haimaanishi kwamba havipo. Reality is very superior to logic. Inawezekana hata mawe ni viumbe hai ila bado akili ya mwanadamu haijaweza kugundua hilo na hivyo llogic yetu inasema kuwa si sahihi kusema kuwa mawe yako hai, lakini in reality, mawe yanaweza kuwa yako hai! Reality is much far superior to logic kwa sababu in most cases logic pia inategemea thinking capacity ya the individual. Ubarikiwe sana

how can you comprehend things which are far higher than your limited mind.....?!

By Makanyaga;

Something not logically existing does not mean that it REALLY does not exist. Ndiyo maana wasomi pia wanaenda kwa waganga wa kienyeji, ambao wengine hawajui hata aeiou. Ni kutokana na hii discrepancy kwamba logic inaonyesha kuwa hiki kitu hakipo lakini reality inakuwa prven kwa mganga wa kienyeji kwamba kina-exist!. Kwenye logic yako umejaza vitu vile tu ambavyo unavifahamu na ulishawahi kuviona, kwa vitu vile ambavyo ama huvijui au hujawahi kuviona havipo kwenye logic yako, lakini haimaanishi kwamba havipo. Reality is very superior to logic.


Exactly.!
I will Agree with you Categorically
it's true that Reality Does not Decided by Logic at All
But this Axiom is only Valid when We deals with things that is Beyond Our thinking Capability

But in case of Genesis Account,All those Event is within Realm of our Current Knowlegde
We know Exactly How day and Night occur.so Above Axiom in No longer Applied

Nice day

jerrytz said:

how can you comprehend things which are far higher than your limited mind.....?!

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In Genesis story of Creation,Nothing is Neither Far-fetched nor Extraordinary.
In fact,There is no Need of Modern science to Explain Errors of those Events

Simple classical science Alone is Enough to prove the whole Account Wrong.

einstein newton said:

By Makanyaga;

Something not logically existing does not mean that it REALLY does not exist. Ndiyo maana wasomi pia wanaenda kwa waganga wa kienyeji, ambao wengine hawajui hata aeiou. Ni kutokana na hii discrepancy kwamba logic inaonyesha kuwa hiki kitu hakipo lakini reality inakuwa prven kwa mganga wa kienyeji kwamba kina-exist!. Kwenye logic yako umejaza vitu vile tu ambavyo unavifahamu na ulishawahi kuviona, kwa vitu vile ambavyo ama huvijui au hujawahi kuviona havipo kwenye logic yako, lakini haimaanishi kwamba havipo. Reality is very superior to logic.


Exactly.!
I will Agree with you Categorically
it's true that Reality Does not Decided by Logic at All
But this Axiom is only Valid when We deals with things that is Beyond Our thinking Capability

But in case of Genesis Account,All those Event is within Realm of our Current Knowlegde
We know Exactly How day and Night occur.so Above Axiom in No longer Applied

Nice day

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What you've said is the opposite. In Genesis we're dealing with things we do not know, but believe that they happened as they are narrated. If we know then we can tell how light came about and where it was before it came about or did it just come for the first time and what did it make it happen that way? If we claim to know we must be able to tell what exactly happened. While if we believe, it means we trust that God cannot lie and so we take it for granted that everything he does is free from error.

Magobe T said:

What you've said is the opposite. In Genesis we're dealing with things we do not know, but believe that they happened as they are narrated. If we know then we can tell how light came about and where it was somewhere before it came about or it just came for the first time and what made it happen that way. If we claim to know we must be able to tell what exactly happened. While if we believe, it means we trust that God cannot lie and so we take it for granted that everything he does is free from error.

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Well.

You take Whole story For granted just Because you Faith in Omniscient Being who do not Lie
Faith is Main Difference Between Science and Religion.

Personally,My knowledge in Bible,or Genesis to be Exact tell Me that nothing is Extraordinary there
We deals with things We know For sure.
In case of Light for instance,the First Word from Genesis's account is "in Begining".Logically we can set t=0' means nothing were into Existence
so where light's source came From?

einstein newton said:

wakristo wengi wanaamini kuwa mpangilio wa matukio katika kitabu cha "mwanzo" ni scientifically accurate...si kweli

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Umesema vema kabisa "wanaamini"! Kwani 'imani' inahitaji hoja au uthibitisho wa kisayansi?

einstein newton said:

mfano,mwanzo 1:3-5
"Mungu akatenga nuru na giza,mungu akaiita nuru mchana,na giza akaliita usiku"

uwepo wa mchana na usiku unategemea uhusiano wa vitu viwili,jua na dunia
lakini kulingana na biblia,jua pamoja na nyota zote ziliumbwa siku ya nne(ref;mwanzo 1:14-19)

sasa usiku na mchana vilikujaje siku ya kwanza?

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Mungu ni muweza wa yote (katika jicho la kiimani). Sayansi inaangalia vitu ambavyo tayari vilishaumbwa. Aliyeumba anasema aliumba kwa mpangilio fulani, sisi 'watazamaji' tusioweza kujiongeza urefu wetu hata kwa milimita moja tunasema huo ni uongo! Kwani hilo jua lilitoka wapi? Ni nini kinafanya jua litoe mwanga? Hicho kinachosababisha jua litoe mwanga kilitoka wapi? [kuna maswali kadha wa kadha sayansi haijathibitisha kuhusu jua, sana sana tunaishia 'kuwaamini' tu hao wanasayansi. So far hakuna hata aliyewahi kufika katika jua]

einstein newton said:

mwanzo 1:9-13

Mungu anaumba majani,miche itoayo mbegu na miti katika siku ya tatu

kwa utashi wa kawaida tu,hakuna mmea unaoweza kuishi bila photosynthesis.Mojakati ya requrements muhimu ya photosynthesis ni mwanga wa jua,lakini jua liliumbwa siku moja
baadae

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Hii inafanana tu na hoja ya hapo juu. Hakuna kisichowezekana mbele ya Mungu.

einstein newton said:

mwanzo 1:14-19

Mungu anaumba mianga(chazo cha mwanga) miwili mikubwa yaani mwezi na jua,kisha mwezi utawale usiku

lakini mwezi hautengenezi mwanga wake bali unaakisi mwanga unaotoka kwenye jua

wakristo mnahitajika hapa tafadhali!

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Tumevikuta tu. Aliyeviumba ndiye anajua aliviumbaje na alitaka viweje.

Umesahau pia kuuliza inawezakana vipi 'kisayansi' binaadamu kuumbwa kwa kutumia udongo! Halafu mwingine wa kufanana nae aumbwe kutokana na ubavu wa yule wa kwanza! Haya kisayansi pia si ni "uongo" wa hali ya juu zaidi kuliko hata hayo ya mwanga, mimea, jua na mwezi? Kisayansi binaadamu si anazaliwa na mwanamke kutokana na muunganiko wa yai la mama na mbegu ya baba? Ndio sababu nasema kisayansi tunatizama vitu vilivyokwisha umbwa na tayari muumbaji wake kaviwekea utaratibu fulani ili vielndelee kuwepo.

The moment unaamini kuwepo kwa Mungu muweza wa yote, sioni ni kwa vipi unaweza ku-challenge chochote kilichofanyika au kinachosemwa kilifanyika kwa kutumia hoja (framework) za kisayansi. You basically want to analyse/critique the bible using a wrong framework. Sayansi imeshindwa kuthibitisha (wala kukanusha) uwepo wa Mungu. Shida inaanzia hapo!

Well ni maoni tu yangu tu. Sina sifa ya kuwa mwanasayansi wala mfiadini