Dar es salaam-Kinshasa Railway lazima ijengwe

[KISHINDO]

I dont have a dream.
Congo kuna makundi mengi sana ya nchi za magharibi, rwanda, uganda n.k.
Kuungana na DRC ni sawa na upepo kuungana na maji ili vitemgeneze kimiminika kingine.

 

[eltontz]

mkuu hiyo reli kutoka dar hadi kinshasa itapita wapi? malawi au ruanda?? wote hao maadui zetu

Mkuu pamoja na kukopi ramani bado unaitaja Malawi kama nchi ya kupitia kwenda Congo??
Njia ni kupitia Zambia au Burundi au Ziwa Tanganyika au Rwanda/Uganda tukitaka ingawa uko kama tunahitaji wajenzi wapigwe mawe.

 

[Lokissa]

wadau wameshajibu kuwa itajengwa bandari kigoma na altenative ni burundi.
kuipitisha burundi ni garama sana unless kama nao burundi wawe wanaihitaji
bandari ndio muhimu, kama ni hivo tayari tuna reli kilichobaki waijenge upya
iwe ya kisasa itakayopitisha tren za kisasa za mwendo wa kasi zaidi

Mkuu pamoja na kukopi ramani bado unaitaja Malawi kama nchi ya kupitia kwenda Congo??
Njia ni kupitia Zambia au Burundi au Ziwa Tanganyika au Rwanda/Uganda tukitaka ingawa uko kama tunahitaji wajenzi wapigwe mawe.

 

[BABU MKUKUMILA]

tazama vizuri ramani na utaona kuwa toka east congo ni mbali zaidi hadi kinshasa kuliko kwenda dar.

Na ninavyozungumza sasa, ukienda tunduma zaidi ya 40% ya mixingo inayotoka nje inaenda kongo.
Tuchangamkie fursa.

kinachokwamisha huduma ndani ya congo si ukosefu wa bandari au umbali kutoka kinshasa bali ni ukosefu wa miundombinu bora ndani ya congo. Sidhani kuwa wacongoman wapo tayari kuboresha miundombinu kutokea dar es salaam badala ya kutokea kinshasa.

 

[Lole Gwakisa]

wadau wameshajibu kuwa itajengwa bandari kigoma na altenative ni burundi.
kuipitisha burundi ni garama sana unless kama nao burundi wawe wanaihitaji
bandari ndio muhimu, kama ni hivo tayari tuna reli kilichobaki waijenge upya
iwe ya kisasa itakayopitisha tren za kisasa za mwendo wa kasi zaidi

Thats the spirit mkuu, kuna watu hawapendi kuota maendeleo.
Kwao ufukara na kulaumu wengine kwa kushindwa kwao wanaona ndo fashion.

 

[masopakyindi]

[TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TH="colspan: 3, align: center"]‘White Elephant’ Projects
‘White Elephant’ Projects
[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 20%, align: left"][/TD]
[TH="width: 60%, align: center"]Chapter 5. Overcoming the ‘White Elephant’ Syndrome in Big and Iconic Projects in the Public and Private Sectors
[/TH]
[TD="width: 20%, align: right"][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


‘White Elephant’ Projects


Many of these ‘big,’ ‘iconic’ projects too frequently degenerate into what has been described as ‘white elephant’ projects (Scott 1992). ‘White elephant’ projects are not only often large and expensive to build and take longer than originally estimated, but also form and ‘prestige’ so dominate over function that the project never performs satisfactorily either in terms of stated role, unclear as it is often is, or financially. Moreover, what really make these projects ‘white elephants’ is that they become expensive to maintain because of poor design, confused role and lack of what may be best described as a ‘business case’ for their very initiation. These problems are most explicitly seen in those projects in the arts such as art galleries and museums where even in the best of circumstances purpose is often ill-defined and clear criteria for success, difficult to articulate. Such buildings are characterised by a failure to meet anticipated attendance levels and frequently need repeated and expensive refurbishments that often cost more than their original construction. Scott (1992) reminds us of ‘white elephant’ projects covering many other areas ranging from technology parks, very fast train proposals, spaceports, to the famed multifunction polis.


Of course, ‘white elephant’ projects are not limited to the public sector. Examples in the tourism industry include the construction by various entrepreneurs during the late 1980s and early 1990s of numerous ‘prestige’ and ‘iconic’ resorts up and down the Queensland coast. Most ran at a huge losses and were usually on-sold several times at a fraction of their original development costs. Indeed, many of these resorts today, although apparently viable, are only profitable in terms of their operating, rather than full capital costs (Syvret and Syvret 1996) and have become viable by considerable changes in their scope and range of activities. Development of strata title units for on-selling has been one strategy used for these tourism developments. So numerous are ‘white elephant’ projects that one commentator suggested they were not limited to one off examples, but had become a ‘herd’ that pervaded the Australian landscape too frequently (Scott 1992).

Mkuu success comes with trying, failing and trying again.
Man landed on the moon after very many failures.
If you dont try you dont fail, and woser still you rmain to live in the past!!!!
Try getting out of your book lined protective shell mister!!!

Entrepreneurship ni pamoja na kuventure into the unknown, na hilo naliheshimu sana maana hawngekuwepo pioneers wa maendeleo kama tungekuwa tunaogopa ati "White Elephants".

 

[masopakyindi]

I dont have a dream.
Congo kuna makundi mengi sana ya nchi za magharibi, rwanda, uganda n.k.
Kuungana na DRC ni sawa na upepo kuungana na maji ili vitemgeneze kimiminika kingine.

Mkuu objectivity in life is very crucial.
You might play dead as an option, but others will definately pass you by.
Here is an oppurtunity, letting it pass is a crime!!!

 

[Lole Gwakisa]

sasa Kiranga ukizungumzia white Elphant basi hao wakoloni wasinge jenga reli miaka hiyo, ukitilia maanani Ukulima wetu ulikuwa chini, sasa hivi Production ya Mahindi mkoa wa Rukwa/Katavi ipo juu? viwanda ingawa si saana vipo, mizigo imported ipo, sasa hapo tu mizigo ya ndani inaweza ku-break even, sasa hayo mengine ya DRC na nchi nyingine ni ya ziada. na kama unaona hiyo theory yangu au facts haijipi? basi iweje kwa wenzetu ijipe? wana nini tofauti in terms of trade and production ifanye yao iwe ya mafanikio? maana sasa hivi na urasimu wetu tunaona biashara na uzalishaji upo ndio maana Ma lorry yana safiri, sasa tukiondoa au kupunguza huo uzembe ni wazi tija itakuwa kubwa, hivyo tuanze sasa tukitajiria hivyo vitu vitakutana.

It is strange sana mkuu, watu weghine kujiita wasomi lakini hawazioni fursa hadi waajiriwe.
Mbaya zaidi hawajawahi hata kufika Tunduma na kuona mzigo unaoishia Kongo.
Watu hawaoni business oppurtunities hata zikiwa sitting room kwao.

 

[Nyamwaga]

Ya Arusha -Musoma imewashinda hiyo ya kinshasa mtaweza?

 

[masopakyindi]

Mkuu nimependa hii. Na huyu unaye mjibu ni mmoja wa watu wa karibu sana na JK na Membe! Na amesoma Uchumi,UDSM!

Lakini pengine kichekesho zaidi ni mleta sredi anaye sema tujenge reli Dsm - Kinshasa!! Sijui kama hata ana idea Kinshasa iko karibu na bahari ya Atlantic,na wazo la aina hiyo ni wendawazimu!

Baadhi ya wachangiaji wanajenga miundombinu kama reli na barabara hewani,miundombinu ya kufikirika! Lakini wanashindwa kutambua jambo muhimu kwamba hicho wanacho waza kimeshindikana kwasababu ya utawala mbovu!

Ndani ya uzalendo huo wa kijinga hakuna anayehoji kwanini watawala wetu wameua reli zetu! Majirani waendelea kuangalia upuuzi wetu eti kwasababu sisi ni watu wa pole pole?! Wakitafuta njia mbadala nalo kosa!!

Mkuu nikisoma maoni ya vijana wetu na kuangalia ambavyo hata vyama vya upinzani vimekaa kimya kama kwamba Tanzania ni kisiwa,napata uchungu kusema mageuzi bado yapo mbali sana. 2015 ni CCM tena!

Mkuu usijiaibishe kwa kutoa mawazo wewe mwenyewe unajua hayana mashiko, na mbaya zaidi unaonyesha jinsi elimu ambavyo haijawahi kukusaidia kimaisha.
My only hunch ni kuwa you must be a miserable person, kwa vile badala ya ku argue the pros and cons of the debate unaanza ati miye rafiki yake Kikwete na Membe, hebu tuambie basi maadui zao ni nani.
Stpid ideas indeed.
Turudi kwenye mada, argument kwamba ati Kinshasa ni karibu na Atlantic Ocean inaeleza umbumbumbu wa mtoa posti.
Hivi mkuu umewahi kusikia Trans Siberian Railway, Toka Vladivostock hadi Europe kupitia Moscow?
Na Warusi wangefikiri miradi kama hiyo ni "White Elephants" kama entrepreneur shy thinkers, basi leo isingekuwa inaongelewa.

Halafu nashindwa kuelewa "uzalendo wa kijinga" sijui mtoa posti ana maana gani.
Matamshi mengine can only reflect the nascent thinking capacity ya mtu, any stupid person can criticise, it is only those who go a step further who can mete out solutions.

Criticisms si mbaya lakini critic huwa anaishia hapo ,huwa hana jipya la kwake mwenyewe, na ni bingwa kwa kungojea aletewe pilau kwenye sinia ndo ajue ni nzuri au la.

 

[Who Cares?]

jei keyi anajuwa kuwa watu wake mna-dream tena mumeanza mchana kweupeee?...na sirikali yake ni sikivu kweliii?...maana aliyoyaongea six kule bungeni ya kuungana na kongo-drc na burundi yalitoka humuhumu jeiefuu...

Naingiwa na wasiwasi mwabulambo kama jeikei huyuhuyu huwa anaingia huku kwa great-lakes sinkers na kusoma kwa kuelewa na kisha kutekeleza au huwa anaogopa kuingia huku coz mshauri wake wasira hupaita "kwa wahuni" na wanaamini ukichukuwa mawazo ya hawa wahuni tena wana cdm unakuwa umefanya dhambi kama kuingiza mdudu masjidi siku ya swallat ijumaa.

 

[Ng'wanapagi]

Doto yako muzuri sana mwana yazambe!

 

[Kiranga]

nafikiri Kiranga , huku ukijua kwamba kwa zaidi ya mwezi moja wakongo wamekuwa wakijadiliana jinsi gani ya kutatua matatizo yao ya ndani, na resolution moja wapo ni kuletwa Mabaki ya Mabutu kuzikwa DRC. ni hawa M23 tu ambao hawakushiriki au kushirikishwa kwa sababu ya attitude yao ya kutaka kuilazimisha serikali ifanye jinsi wao wana vyotaka. Hivyo hicho alicho ongelea JK kimefanyika na kina endelea kufanyika.

It's way too soon halafu kama M23 hawajashirikishwa, you can't just dismiss them. Sasa hivi kuna majeshi ya UN huko wamekimbia, who is to say siku majeshi ya UN yatakapotoka hawatarudi?

 

[Kiranga]

sasa Kiranga ukizungumzia white Elphant basi hao wakoloni wasinge jenga reli miaka hiyo, ukitilia maanani Ukulima wetu ulikuwa chini, sasa hivi Production ya Mahindi mkoa wa Rukwa/Katavi ipo juu? viwanda ingawa si saana vipo, mizigo imported ipo, sasa hapo tu mizigo ya ndani inaweza ku-break even, sasa hayo mengine ya DRC na nchi nyingine ni ya ziada. na kama unaona hiyo theory yangu au facts haijipi? basi iweje kwa wenzetu ijipe? wana nini tofauti in terms of trade and production ifanye yao iwe ya mafanikio? maana sasa hivi na urasimu wetu tunaona biashara na uzalishaji upo ndio maana Ma lorry yana safiri, sasa tukiondoa au kupunguza huo uzembe ni wazi tija itakuwa kubwa, hivyo tuanze sasa tukitajiria hivyo vitu vitakutana.

Mreno alikuwa na mahesabu ya kukaa Msumbiji kwa miaka 500, akakaa 475. Not bad for projection.

Wakoloni walipiga mahesabu ya kibiashara, wakaona makoloni yanalipa. Walipojenga reli kote kuna mali fulani wamepata, hawakujenga reli tu bila kuangalia hayo maswali niliyoyataja hapo juu.

Na moja ya sababu iliyofanya nchi za Afrika nyingi zipate uhuru miaka ya 60's ni kwamba makoloni yalikuwa hayalipi tena, yalianza kuwa gharama zaidi ya asset. Churchill fought this for the prestige of empire but lost India, from there it was downhill.Read history.

Ukichangia na mwamko wa kisiasa wa Waafrika kutaka uhuru wakoloni wakasema isiwe tabu, tuwaachie nchi zao tushachuma vya kutosha na hizo reli zetu tusharudisha.Isitoshe tunaweza kuwafanyia remote control kwa ukoloni mamboleo wa kuwapangia bei za bidhaa zao kwenye soko la dunia na kuwawekea masharti ya ajabu wakija IMF. Ndiyo maana Nyerere anaiita IMF kuwa ni Shylock wa "Merchants of Venice". Falsafa hii ya kukataa u Shylock ndiyo iliyomfanya Nyerere akipende kitabu cha Shakespeare cha "Merchants of Venice" mpaka kukitafsiri Kiswahili. Soma historia ya beef la Nyerere na Mtei. Alijua kwamba control inatoka kwenye direct colonialization inaenda kwenye world market. Ndiyo maana mzee wa watu alikuwa halali vizuri kucha akisikiliza BBC na kufuatilia bei za mazao katika world markets. Alikuwa anatafuta details.

Sasa kwa nini mimi leo nikitaka figures, facts and anecdotes kuhusu maswali hayo ya kiuchumi nakuwa sipati majibu?

Mind you maswali hayo yana apply popote pale, hata kama reli inajengwa kwenda Mtwara, ndani ya nchi yetu.Ambako tuna political control na hatuna shaka sana kuhusu stability, sasa si zaidi ikiwa tunataka kujenga huko Congo?

Tunajifunza nini katika breakup ya EAC ile ya kwanza na hii ya pili ambayo inaonekana imminent sasa?

Kwa nini mijadala yetu inakimbia kujadili vitu technical?

Kama hatuna technival input, huu mjadala una tofauti gani na stories tu za kijiweni?

 

[Kiranga]

It is strange sana mkuu, watu weghine kujiita wasomi lakini hawazioni fursa hadi waajiriwe.
Mbaya zaidi hawajawahi hata kufika Tunduma na kuona mzigo unaoishia Kongo.
Watu hawaoni business oppurtunities hata zikiwa sitting room kwao.

Tatizo si kutokuona business oportunities, kuna maswali kuhusu hizo opportunities nimeuliza hapo juu sijapata hata mtu kujaribu kuyajibu tu achilia mbali kuyajibu.

Sasa mnataka kujenga reli on a whim?

 

[Kiranga]

Mkuu success comes with trying, failing and trying again.
Man landed on the moon after very many failures.
If you dont try you dont fail, and woser still you rmain to live in the past!!!!
Try getting out of your book lined protective shell mister!!!

Entrepreneurship ni pamoja na kuventure into the unknown, na hilo naliheshimu sana maana hawngekuwepo pioneers wa maendeleo kama tungekuwa tunaogopa ati "White Elephants".

Kuna trying halafu kuna trying intelligently.

Hata hao walioenda kwenye mwezi walifanya hesabu, mwezi uko umbali gani? tunahitaji propulsion ya aina gani? escape velocity ni ipi? Tunahitaji fuel gani? kiasi gani? etc.

Then unajaribu, hata ukishindwa unajua umeshindwa wapi na uongeze nini.

Sasa wewe unataka kwenda mwezini kwa kuruka kwa kutumia miguu yako kama Mmasai kapandwa na mori, nakwambia hatuendi hivyo, fanya hesabu na fizikia kwanza, tengeneza nyenzo zinazotakiwa etc, unaniambia "if at first you don't succeeed..."?

If at first you don't succed at what? Jumping at the moon using your legs?

 

[August]

Mreno alikuwa na mahesabu ya kukaa Msumbiji kwa miaka 500, akakaa 475. Not bad for projection.

Wakoloni walipiga mahesabu ya kibiashara, wakaona makoloni yanalipa. Walipojenga reli kote kuna mali fulani wamepata, hawakujenga reli tu bila kuangalia hayo maswali niliyoyataja hapo juu.

Na moja ya sababu iliyofanya nchi za Afrika nyingi zipate uhuru miaka ya 60's ni kwamba makoloni yalikuwa hayalipi tena, yalianza kuwa gharama zaidi ya asset. Churchill fought this for the prestige of empire but lost India, from there it was downhill.Read history.

Ukichangia na mwamko wa kisiasa wa Waafrika kutaka uhuru wakoloni wakasema isiwe tabu, tuwaachie nchi zao tushachuma vya kutosha na hizo reli zetu tusharudisha.Isitoshe tunaweza kuwafanyia remote control kwa ukoloni mamboleo wa kuwapangia bei za bidhaa zao kwenye soko la dunia na kuwawekea masharti ya ajabu wakija IMF. Ndiyo maana Nyerere anaiita IMF kuwa ni Shylock wa "Merchants of Venice". Falsafa hii ya kukataa u Shylock ndiyo iliyomfanya Nyerere akipende kitabu cha Shakespeare cha "Merchants of Venice" mpaka kukitafsiri Kiswahili. Soma historia ya beef la Nyerere na Mtei. Alijua kwamba control inatoka kwenye direct colonialization inaenda kwenye world market. Ndiyo maana mzee wa watu alikuwa halali vizuri kucha akisikiliza BBC na kufuatilia bei za mazao katika world markets. Alikuwa anatafuta details.

Sasa kwa nini mimi leo nikitaka figures, facts and anecdotes kuhusu maswali hayo ya kiuchumi nakuwa sipati majibu?

Mind you maswali hayo yana apply popote pale, hata kama reli inajengwa kwenda Mtwara, ndani ya nchi yetu.Ambako tuna political control na hatuna shaka sana kuhusu stability, sasa si zaidi ikiwa tunataka kujenga huko Congo?

Tunajifunza nini katika breakup ya EAC ile ya kwanza na hii ya pili ambayo inaonekana imminent sasa?

Kwa nini mijadala yetu inakimbia kujadili vitu technical?

Kama hatuna technival input, huu mjadala una tofauti gani na stories tu za kijiweni?

ndugu yangu nimekuuliza au kukuelezea
1. kama ya wenzetu inajipa why not ours hujajibu.kenya uganda Rwanda
2.umeongele plan ya ureno 500 years, je sisi kama Taifa hiyo plan yetu ni 5, 10, or 20 years? na je m23 watakuwepo to infinite? na hata hao m23 hawahitaji bidhaa? na je wajua plan ya sadc kwa DRC military ipoje baada ya un kuondoka.
3. je wajua kwamba DRC kama nchi na serikali wameisha ona matatizo yao ya ndani, na wapo njiani kuyatatua, kisiasa, ili Amani na shughuli za kiuchumi zifanyie?
4. nimeelezea ku mature kwa hii au hizi project iwe reli au bandari na kuwepo kwa amani au utawala bora bongo pamoja na nchi jirani, au tusubiri hivyo vitu viwepo ndio tujenge reli nk.
5.ukiachia biashara iwe na nchi jirani nk, je internally hatuhitaji hivyo vitu? maana in real sense hatuwezi kujenga infrastucture kwa nchi ya DRC/ya watu bali focus yetu ni ku lime with the other side

 

[Kiranga]

Mkuu nimependa hii. Na huyu unaye mjibu ni mmoja wa watu wa karibu sana na JK na Membe! Na amesoma Uchumi,UDSM!

Lakini pengine kichekesho zaidi ni mleta sredi anaye sema tujenge reli Dsm - Kinshasa!! Sijui kama hata ana idea Kinshasa iko karibu na bahari ya Atlantic,na wazo la aina hiyo ni wendawazimu!

Baadhi ya wachangiaji wanajenga miundombinu kama reli na barabara hewani,miundombinu ya kufikirika! Lakini wanashindwa kutambua jambo muhimu kwamba hicho wanacho waza kimeshindikana kwasababu ya utawala mbovu!

Ndani ya uzalendo huo wa kijinga hakuna anayehoji kwanini watawala wetu wameua reli zetu! Majirani waendelea kuangalia upuuzi wetu eti kwasababu sisi ni watu wa pole pole?! Wakitafuta njia mbadala nalo kosa!!

Mkuu nikisoma maoni ya vijana wetu na kuangalia ambavyo hata vyama vya upinzani vimekaa kimya kama kwamba Tanzania ni kisiwa,napata uchungu kusema mageuzi bado yapo mbali sana. 2015 ni CCM tena!

Kwa thinking hii ya "let's build castles in the air" hatufiki popote.

Nchi maskini, ina madeni kibao, hapo hapo inataka kuanzisha miradi mikubwa kibao kwa mpigo.

Bandari ya Dar imetushinda, jenga mpya Bagamoyo hata kabla ya kutatua matatizo ya Dar.

Reli ya kati inaenda vagarant, jenga nyingine katikati ya msitu wa Congo bila hata kujua wapi kunapitika na wapi hakupitiki, wala kujua tunatafuta nini, kiko wapi, political stability ikoje etc.

Ukiulizwa technical details, unaambia watu waote tu.

Duh!

 

[Kiranga]

ndugu yangu nimekuuliza au kukuelezea
1. kama ya wenzetu inajipa why not ours hujajibu.kenya uganda Rwanda

Ya wenzetu nini? Inajipa vipi? Kwa details gani? Sisi sio Rwanda wala Uganda, hatuna Geography zao, hatuna populations zao, hatuna histories zao etc. Kwa nini utegemee kitu kilichofanywa nao kiwe hivyo hivyo kwetu?

2.umeongele plan ya ureno 500 years, je sisi kama Taifa hiyo plan yetu ni 5, 10, or 20 years? na je m23 watakuwepo to infinite? na hata hao m23 hawahitaji bidhaa? na je wajua plan ya sadc kwa DRC military ipoje baada ya un kuondoka.

Plan inaanza kwa kujibu maswali yangu ya hapo juu, kama hujajibu huna plan.

Kama hujui "Return on Investment" ni ipi unaweza ku quadruple national debt, mpango mzima usiwe na faida bali ukatupa deni mpaka vitukuu vya vitukuu vyetu vitatutukana kwa kutoona hili.

3. je wajua kwamba DRC kama nchi na serikali wameisha ona matatizo yao ya ndani, na wapo njiani kuyatatua, kisiasa, ili Amani na shughuli za kiuchumi zifanyie?

Gross overstatement. M23 is bidding it's time to see how long the UN forces will stay.

All it takes is for one madman to shoot Kabila and the whole country goes haywire. How could you secure against that?

4. nimeelezea ku mature kwa hii au hizi project iwe reli au bandari na kuwepo kwa amani au utawala bora bongo pamoja na nchi jirani, au tusubiri hivyo vitu viwepo ndio tujenge reli nk.

Timeline yako ni ipi? Projection yako ni ipi? Hata mimi sitaki tuongelee kujenga reli huko wakati political stability haijulikani.

Nimeuliza maswali mengi sana ya "feasibility study" nature, lakini naona watu wanataka kufanya project kubwa bila hata ya kujibu maswali ya "feasibility study".

5.ukiachia biashara iwe na nchi jirani nk, je internally hatuhitaji hivyo vitu? maana in real sense hatuwezi kujenga infrastucture kwa nchi ya DRC/ya watu bali focus yetu ni ku lime with the other side

Kufanya biashara na DRC si lazima kujenga reli, not at this point anyway.

 

[masopakyindi]

Kuna trying halafu kuna trying intelligently.

Hata hao walioenda kwenye mwezi walifanya hesabu, mwezi uko umbali gani? tunahitaji propulsion ya atina gani? escape velocity ni ipi? Tunahitaji fuel gani? kiasi gani? etc.

Then unajaribu, hata ukishindwa unajua umeshindwa wapi na uongeze nini.

Sasa wewe unataka kwenda mwezini kwa kuruka kwa kutumia miguu yako kama Mmasai kapandwa na mori, nakwambia hatuendi hivyo, fanya hesabu na fizikia kwanza, tengeneza nyenzo zinazotakiwa etc, unaniambia "if at first you don't succeeed..."?

If at first you don't succed at what? Jumping at the moon using your legs?

Its quite clear, mkuu you dont have an argument, you are just arguing for the airs!!
Come fown from the imaginary towers thst you think you are on top of.
Deep down you are just a poor mn, like me, but who dares not dream of a better future.