Assault on Dr. Ulimboka: Who Did It?

[zomba]

What incontrovertible proof do you have that shows the government had absolutely nothing to do with it?

What incontrovertible proof do you have that shows the government had absolutely anything to do with it?

 

[Azimio Jipya]

Azimio, kumbuka kitu kimoja. serikali na huenda hata Ikulu, haihusiki na hili kwa kusema nendeni mkamteke Ulimboka, hapana. Hapa JK yuko sahihi kabisa na kutohusika na serikali. Serikali inatoa maagizo kwa Polisi na Usalama wa Taifa kwamba wakusanye habari kuhusu kwa mfano, nani wako nyuma ya mgomo wa madktari. Sasa mengine ni kutotumia tu busara eidha kwa field officers au mabosi wa polisi na Usalama wa Taifa juu ya njia wanazotumia kupata habari walizoagizwa na serikali.

Synthesizer; Agalia kwa makini sana Postulate yangu! Nimeacha kwa makusidi kujiigiza kwenye cheap argument kuwa serekali inahusika au haihusiki. Kila mtu atalikimbilia hilo na kulitolea matamko marahisi tu!

NA HOJI:

SEREKALI IMEFAIDI KIASIGANI SASA NA SIKUZIJAZO KWA UNYAMA ALOFANYIWA DR ULIMBOKA KWENYE UTATUZI WA MGOMO WA MADAKTARI? Nani haoni Unyama huo ulivyobadilisha upepo MZIMA wa swala zima la mgomo wa Ma Drs?

Nani haoini Woga ulioitanda Tanzania Nzima kuwa lazima kuiitii Serekali kwa lazima kwani kungolewa meno na kucha sasa inaweza kuwa jadi?

Hivi Ni kweli kabisa, kuwa Unyama aliofanyiwa Dr Ulimboka haujampa Rais wa Jamhuri ya Tanzania ... KUJIAMINI?

Hivi kweli, SiKuwa unyama aliofanyiwa Dr Ulimboka umempa Waziri Mkuu KKUJIAMINI NA KUONA KAMA HE IS ARCHIVING THE OBJECTIVES?

Kwa hiyo ona argument yangu. Si jakalia hoja ya kuwa serekali imehusika au haikuhusika. ILa Kila Mtanzania leo akihojiwa kuwa Serekali ime benefit kama njia ya kumanage MGOMO wa MA DR kwa Kuumizwa kwa Dr Ulimboka unafikiri majibu yatakuwa nini?

Alafu Tutahoji ... WHAT A COINCIDENCE? ..

NB: Hadi hapo hatujishugulishi na serekali kuhusika au kutohusika!!

 

[Nyani Ngabu]

What incontrovertible proof do you have that shows the government had absolutely anything to do with it?

Where did I state, matter-of-factly, that "the government had absolutely anything to do with it"?

 

[Ronal Reagan]

We cannot be so separate and divided! Currently we (patriots/citizens) conducts our own investigations to the matter. JK and his party do theirs. It's relative safe to remark that the two findings and presentations will forever be far and contrasting.

I, for one will never consider seriously anything from Kova's team or any from the kind. My investigation is progressively focusing on getting medical diagnosis of Uli extreme injuries and pains.

I second your identification of the suspect.

 

[Synthesizer]

What incontrovertible proof do you have that shows the government had absolutely nothing to do with it?

Did I say the government has absolutely nothing to do with it? You need to read what I say, rather than peruse and jump to conclusions.

 

[Lawrence Luanda]

......
d. Government agents? Well they would have the motive - silence the most prominent face of Doctor's strike and sending fear to everybody else. But another motive seems to be very clear now - especially with JK's speech last night. Doctor Ulimboka was not wanted by some people WITHIN the government during the negotiations. Kikwete told the nation that it was his decision to have Ulimboka continue to be a member of the panel negotiation with the governemnt. IF THIS IS TRUE then Kikwete POSSIBLY did not know who planned the assault but someone in the government did!

Whoever in the government planned this incident knew a number of things pretty well:...
MMM

The blue high lighted is what I believe to be true either President was aware or not, the clue that they tried to find out if CHADEMA has something to do with the strike but again its a clue of the status of our secret service if they cant get such kind of information in their line of duty.

 

[Nyani Ngabu]

Azimio, kumbuka kitu kimoja. serikali na huenda hata Ikulu, haihusiki na hili kwa kusema nendeni mkamteke Ulimboka, hapana. Hapa JK yuko sahihi kabisa na kutohusika na serikali.!

Did I say the government has absolutely nothing to do with it? You need to read what I say, rather than peruse and jump to conclusions.

What makes you say JK is absolutely right? What if he is not telling the whole truth?

 

[Synthesizer]

Synthesizer is relying on her/his intuition...

I said at the very onset that I was profiling - trying to make inference on the nature of the culprit based on available facts. It is a forensic investigation technique. That is different from relying on intuition.

I am a "he" by the way.

 

[bdo]

Jesus Christ..njoo upesi basi, kila jicho litamuona na hata walio mchoma..njoo please

 

[chama]

What incontrovertible proof do you have that shows the government had absolutely nothing to do with it?

You can reverse the question; why the Government and not somebody from the opposition? Never trust politician whether is from ruling part or opposition, they will do anything for the sake of popularity; very interesting within opposition you have some guys who were big time MAJAMBAZI;they can engineer the moves just for sake of politics; I can tell you if you open your mind and look deep you will see something beyond the Government.

Chama
Gongo la Mboto DSM

 

[Mzee Mwanakijiji]

Kivipi? Kwamba iundwe tume "huru" ya kuchunguza nani anahusika?

Hili si suala la tume ni suala la uhalifu. Tume ingeubdwa kuchunguza utendaji wa TISS na Polisi siyo kuchunguza uhalifu. Kama vyombo vyetu vya kusimamia sgetia vinaonekana viko compromised basi kinatafutwa chombo cha nje ya hivyo.

 

[Synthesizer]

What makes you say JK is absolutely right? What if he is not telling the whole truth?

I think the best thing for me is to repeat this in Kiswahili; kumbuka kitu kimoja; serikali na huenda hata Ikulu, haihusiki na hili kwa kusema nendeni mkamteke Ulimboka

Nilimaanisha I doubt goverment issued a direct command that Ulimboka should be abducted, tortured or even killed. Lakini serikali iliamrisha vyombo kama Usalama wa Taifa kupata taarifa za nani yuko nyuma ya mgomo wa madaktari. That much I know for a certainty.

Sasa JK anaweza kuwa anasimamia hoja kwamba they never issued direct orders kwamba ili kupata habari za nani yuko nyuma ya mgomo - nendeni mkamteke, kumtesa na kumwua Ulimboka.

I then said, at implementation level, katika kupata habari, the "superior" wa field sucurity officials ndie anayeweza kuwa alitoa agizo kwamba "abduct Ulimboka na take him to a safe house". Sidhani kama kabla ya kufanya hivi atapiga simu Ikulu kuuliza "hivi ili kupata habari nani yuko nyuma ya huu mgomo wa madaktari, tumteke, kumtesa na kumuua Ulimboka?"

Na pia nilisema wale field security agents waliomteka Ulimboka could have taken matters into their own hands, without asking for guidance from their superior - though I doubt this.

Kwa hiyo JK could be right katika context hiyo kwamba government never issued a direct order kwamba nendeni mkamteke, kumtesa na kumuua Ulimboka. Government is never interested in the operational details of how intelligence get their information. Government does not order intelligence personnel to pull out victims' nails.

In South Africa, De Clerk said the apartheid government never issued orders to torture and kill freedom fighters! It is the same context JK is using here, and technically, he could be right, in asmuch as De Clerk could have been right.

Sasa this is different from saying "the government has absolutely nothing to do with it", something I never said, and even JK and De Klerk would never dare say that - if they know anything about indirect responsibility.

 

[Nyani Ngabu]

I think the best thing for me is to repeat this in Kiswahili; kumbuka kitu kimoja; serikali na huenda hata Ikulu, haihusiki na hili kwa kusema nendeni mkamteke Ulimboka...

Haya yote uliyasema kwenye kurasa za nyuma ama ndiyo unayasema sasa baaada ya mimi kuhoji?

 

[Nyani Ngabu]

Hili si suala la tume ni suala la uhalifu. Tume ingeubdwa kuchunguza utendaji wa TISS na Polisi siyo kuchunguza uhalifu. Kama vyombo vyetu vya kusimamia sgetia vinaonekana viko compromised basi kinatafutwa chombo cha nje ya hivyo.

Lakini Mwanakijijii, you know how our government operates so you, me , or anybody else for that matter should not be surprised at all. For the longest time it has always been "tume-happy".

 

[Bobuk]

Pamoja na CLUES zote ilizonazo Serikali kutoka kwa Dr. Ulimboka, Dr. Deo leo ni karibu week nzima lakini hakuna hata mtuhumiwa mmoja aliyehojiwa na Polisi achilia mbali kushikwa na kupelekwa mahakamani.

Hii yote inatuambia nini? Serikali inatengeneza HADITHI ya kutueleza ili ku-cover up hili sakata kwasababu yenyewe ndiyo mhusika mkuu.

Serikali inasubiri nini kumuhoji ACP, Ahmed Salim Msangi, Abeid (Abduel afisa wa Ikulu aliyetoroshewa S Africa) au Dr. Deo shahidi namba moja aliyeshuhudia Dr. Ulimboka akitekwa? Sina Imani na Serikali hii.

Kama tuliweza kuchanga Tsh 90 milioni kwa siku 2 tukafanikisha kumpeleka Dr. Uli RSA kwanini tusiji-organize tukachanga halafu tukawaita SCOTLAND YARD wakatufanyia huu uchunguzi ili tumuumbue JK, Pinda, Kova na serikali ya ki-mafia ya CCM?

 

[Synthesizer]

You can reverse the question; why the Government and not somebody from the opposition? Never trust politician whether is from ruling part or opposition, they will do anything for the sake of popularity;

Mkuu Chama, Would they dare take that risk? Imagine what would happen ikiwa Polisi au Usalama wa Taifa wakiwakamata wapinzani katika mission kama hiyo. Upinzani wanasingiziwa na kupikiwa kesi nyingi sana na vyombo vya Usalama wa Taifa. Ku-risk operation kama ya Ulimboka for popularity is beneath the most stupid person katika siasa za upinzani. Give them their dues.

I believe kwa mfano, just using common sense Chadema would not even think of carrying out such an operation. It is just not worth it. Exposure would be the end of Chadema. Lakini Chama kilicho tayari na madaraka ya serikalini can take the risk katika mambo kama hayo, because they have propaganda superiority.

Pia do not forget the "non-controllable action" angle. Si kila kitu cha kijinga kinachofanywa au kusemwa na watendaji wa serikali au chama kina maagizo ya Chama au Raisi au Serikali kuu. The best they can do when it happens is to undertake damage control measures. This is true for any government or political party - CCM or Chadema or Republicans or Democrats, etc.

 

[SMU]

You can reverse the question; why the Government and not somebody from the opposition? Never trust politician whether is from ruling part or opposition, they will do anything for the sake of popularity; very interesting within opposition you have some guys who were big time MAJAMBAZI;they can engineer the moves just for sake of politics; I can tell you if you open your mind and look deep you will see something beyond the Government.

Chama
Gongo la Mboto DSM

Tatizo wamekuwa wakiamini suala hili lina msukumo wa moja kwa moja na siasa za vyama. Wamejaribu sana kutafuta namna ya kuhusisha matatizo haya ya madaktari na siasa (kuwa wazi zaidi, CDM) lakini so far wanashindwa. Ndio maana unaona 'wanajikanyaga' tu (TISS/polisi, bunge, rais, mahakama) - hawajui watajinasua vipi!

 

[Synthesizer]

Haya yote uliyasema kwenye kurasa za nyuma ama ndiyo unayasema sasa baaada ya mimi kuhoji?

Niliyasema kwa kifupi, au "context". Kama nilisema uwezekano wa Usalama wa Taifa na Polisi kuhusika pamoja ni asilimia 99%, iweje mtu afikie conclusion kwamba nimesema "the government has absolutely nothing to do with it"?

Kwani Usalama wa Taifa na Polisi sio serikali?

 

[Jiwe Linaloishi]

Ndahani,

Hizi ni what if?

Basi tuache ku speculate tusubiri uchunguzi utuambie nani amehusika.

Kama uchunguzi wenyewe ni ule wa ile timu ya Kova mi sina imani nayo 100%

 

[Zak Malang]

Five days later no one has been arrested for criminal assault ....Now, as Sherlock Holmes would say..."once you eliminate the impossible (a through c); whatever remains (the government agents), however improbable must be the truth".

What does this mean?....

MMM:

I have liked your quote about the word 'truth. In fact 'truth' has been defined in many ways. Essentially it is the conformity of the mind to reality. Objectively, truth is infallible but our judgement about the truth can be correct or mistaken.

There are also quotes from other notables on the subject apart from the one from the legendary super sleuth:

Robert M. Pirsig, an American philosopher has always been puzzled by the truth. "It is a puzzling thing," he says. "The truth knocks on the door and you say, 'Go away, I'm looking for the truth.' and so it goes away. Puzzling."

Confucius, the 600 BC Chinese philosopher said there are three things cannot long be hidden: the sun, the moon, and the truth. It is from him that the age long proverb "truth will out" is attributed.

Mark Twain, the American novelist said of the difference between truth and fiction: fiction has to make sense.

Harry Truman, the 33rd US President used to attack his political opponents by saying: "I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell."

And another US president, Richard Milhous Nixon, while initially insisting his innocence in the Watergate scandal in the early 70s bragged: "There can be no whitewash at the White House." Later, everybody came to know the truth.

In the scriptures we also read how invoking the truth drew controversy. "Pilate saith unto him, What is truth? And when he had said this, he went out again unto the Jews, and saith unto them, I find in him no fault at all. (John 18:38 - Bible's Authorized Version)

But all in all I like the Confucious quote. You will never hide truth for ever.