Why I am Not A Christian - Bertrand Russell

[macinkus]

Nakutafunia . Kaa tayari. Ila usiniambie niku digestie pia, lol.

I believe kuna watu humu wako familiar na hii essay kabla ya kuwa posted hapa.

Don't depress me by saying nobody heard or had the pleasure of reading this essay before!

vijana wa zamani karibu wote walio kwenda shule walisoma vitabu vya huyu msomi. alianza kuandika 1903 "the principles of mathematcs" ambacho wengi wetu hatuwezi kukielewa. why i am not a xtian ni kitabu/waraka mojawapo wa russel ambao ulikua ni kwa ajili ya kila moja kuuelewa. vitabu kama the practice and theory of bolshevism (1920), introduction to mathematical philosophy (1919) au outline of philosophy (1927) pengine ni vigumu kidogo kwa mtu wa kawaida kuvielewa.

nakubaliana kuwa kuna wengi ambao wamesoma si why i am not a xtian tu bali vitabu/nyaraka zingine za mwan filosofa huyu

macinkus

 

[FirstLady1]

Bluray
Thanks for noting my signature........its my hope that it will aspire many more others

Betrand Russell is one among few philosphers I find very interesting alongside his godfather John Stuart Mills - a great thinker that I admire very much more so for his advocacy of women's suffrage in the debate on the Reform Bill of 1867 which led to the formation of the suffrage movement.This was quite something in those days when women were nothing but chatel vocale!

I will join the discussion very soon after reading the piece that you have posted..

this Topic is toooooooooo long

later

 

[Kimbweka]

Why am I not a Muslim by Kimbweka

 

[Mponjoli]

Barriers nyingi sana kwenye hiyo post

 

[Bluray]

vijana wa zamani karibu wote walio kwenda shule walisoma vitabu vya huyu msomi. alianza kuandika 1903 "the principles of mathematcs" ambacho wengi wetu hatuwezi kukielewa. why i am not a xtian ni kitabu/waraka mojawapo wa russel ambao ulikua ni kwa ajili ya kila moja kuuelewa. vitabu kama the practice and theory of bolshevism (1920), introduction to mathematical philosophy (1919) au outline of philosophy (1927) pengine ni vigumu kidogo kwa mtu wa kawaida kuvielewa.

nakubaliana kuwa kuna wengi ambao wamesoma si why i am not a xtian tu bali vitabu/nyaraka zingine za mwan filosofa huyu

macinkus

Nakubali,

Sasa mbona sioni mchango kulenga kuzungumzia mada hii, au unaiona iko too controversial?

Unafikiri watu wanaogopa kuumiza vichwa kwa maswali magumu na kuachia tradition zilizojengwa tangu utoto kama alivyosema Freud?

 

[Bluray]

Barriers nyingi sana kwenye hiyo post

Barriers kama zipi mkuu?

 

[Bluray]

Why am I not a Muslim by Kimbweka

Waislam na Wakristo wana mengi yanayofungamana ambayo Russell ameyapiga maongo pamoja.Kwa mfano pointi zote zinazomkataa mungu zinaenda kwa wakristo na waislam pia, kwa hiyo ukiielewa essay huna hata haja ya kusema "Why I am not a Muslim" jamaa kawafunika waislam na wakristo mumo humo.

Tatizo watu hawasomi naona.

 

[ByaseL]

Waislam na Wakristo wana mengi yanayofungamana ambayo Russell ameyapiga maongo pamoja.Kwa mfano pointi zote zinazomkataa mungu zinaenda kwa wakristo na waislam pia, kwa hiyo ukiielewa essay huna hata haja ya kusema "Why I am not a Muslim" jamaa kawafunika waislam na wakristo mumo humo.

Tatizo watu hawasomi naona.

Ni kweli tatizo watu wengi hatusomi tunaagalia Big Brother Africa na Premier League kama ni kusoma ni kidogo na ni wachache sana. Nimeamua ku-print nikaisome nyumbani jioni lakini hata kabla sijaisoma watu kama Russell kama alivyokuwa Karl Marx wawazo yao wanaishia kuwa mawazo tu. Tangu hapo watu wanaomwamini mungu wameongezeka kwa kasi. Na ukomunisti kusema kweli ni chali!!

 

[WomanOfSubstance]

Bluray,
Unakumbuka katika miaka ya mwisho ya uhai wake Russell aliulizwa kama utakufa na kukuta Mungu yuko utamwambia nini...akajibu something to the effect kuwa nitamlaumu kwanini hakuniwekea ushahidi wa kuthibitisha yupo!
Huoni ni hatari kupinga uwepo wa Mungu halafu ukamkute yupo? Kwani what do you loose by believing that there is GOD?

 

[Nyani Ngabu]

Hivi kama mungu yupo, uwepo wake una dhumuni gani? Kazi ya huyo mungu ni nini?

 

[Bluray]

Ni kweli tatizo watu wengi hatusomi tunaagalia Big Brother Africa na Premier League kama ni kusoma ni kidogo na ni wachache sana. Nimeamua ku-print nikaisome nyumbani jioni lakini hata kabla sijaisoma watu kama Russell kama alivyokuwa Karl Marx wawazo yao wanaishia kuwa mawazo tu. Tangu hapo watu wanaomwamini mungu wameongezeka kwa kasi. Na ukomunisti kusema kweli ni chali!!

Si watu wote wasioamini ni wakomunisti.

 

[Bluray]

Bluray,
Unakumbuka katika miaka ya mwisho ya uhai wake Russell aliulizwa kama utakufa na kukuta Mungu yuko utamwambia nini...akajibu something to the effect kuwa nitamlaumu kwanini hakuniwekea ushahidi wa kuthibitisha yupo!
Huoni ni hatari kupinga uwepo wa Mungu halafu ukamkute yupo? Kwani what do you loose by believing that there is GOD?

I would say exactly the same thing that Russell said. Huwezi kuniambia eti wewe ni mungu mwenye uwezo wa yote, na kila kitu ninachokijua umenijuza wewe kwa namna moja au nyingine, halafu ukanipa ushahidi wote kwamba wewe haupo, halafu nikukute baada ya kufa, nitakusome bonge la lecture kuhusu morality, false misrepresentation, ikiwezekana mpaka nitakusomea mashtaka ya life insurance fraud for faking your own death.

Kwa nini ulinipa akili iliyoquestion kuwapo kwako kwanza? Na kwa nini kila nilipoangalia sikuona kama upo? Hata kama utanipeleka motoni nitakwambia mimi ndiye bigger person na wewe ni sadist uliyenionea tu kwa kuplay hide and seek ambayo hukunipa clue.

Halafu nitataka kuku sue kwa damages zangu na watu wote kama mimi.

I do suspect many people agree with my views but simply cannot find the courage to admit, even to themselves.I mean there is so much that does not make sense that it doesn't take a genius to figure out that there is something massively wrong with this picture.

How can a god, an omnipotent one that supposedly knows your life from end to finish even before you are born, and due to this infallible knowledge that fate is practically sealed (for any deviation would prove the godly vision wrong, and we know that god is supposedly infallible so this cannot happen) so this god pretty much pre-destine your whole life (tunaokoka kwa neema tu na si kwa jitihada zetu, walokole wanasema, pretty much mungu anachagua wateule wake na the rest shauri zenu) so how can this god throw me in hell? After all, my entire understanding of the universe is subject to him, so if I am not convinced of his presence he must be the one who cauised this.My free will is mutually exclusive to his perfect knowledge, if he knows everything then I dont have perfect freewill, if I have perfect free will then he does not know everything.

So how can this god give me responsibility for my "sins"? and at the same time maintain omniscience and omnipotence?

 

[WomanOfSubstance]

I would say exactly the same thing that Russell said. Huwezi kuniambia eti wewe ni mungu mwenye uwezo wa yote, na kila kitu ninachokijua umenijuza wewe kwa namna moja au nyingine, halafu ukanipa ushahidi wote kwamba wewe haupo, halafu nikukute baada ya kufa, nitakusome bonge la lecture kuhusu morality, false misrepresentation, ikiwezekana mpaka nitakusomea mashtaka ya life insurance fraud for faking your own death.

Kwa nini ulinipa akili iliyoquestion kuwapo kwako kwanza? Na kwa nini kila nilipoangalia sikuona kama upo? Hata kama utanipeleka motoni nitakwambia mimi ndiye bigger person na wewe ni sadist uliyenionea tu kwa kuplay hide and seek ambayo hukunipa clue.

Halafu nitataka kuku sue kwa damages zangu na watu wote kama mimi.

I do suspect many people agree with my views but simply cannot find the courage to admit, even to themselves.I mean there is so much that does not make sense that it doesn't take a genius to figure out that there is something massively wrong with this picture.

How can a god, an omnipotent one that supposedly knows your life from end to finish even before you are born, and due to this infallible knowledge that fate is practically sealed (for any deviation would prove the godly vision wrong, and we know that god is supposedly infallible so this cannot happen) so this god pretty much pre-destine your whole life (tunaokoka kwa neema tu na si kwa jitihada zetu, walokole wanasema, pretty much mungu anachagua wateule wake na the rest shauri zenu) so how can this god throw me in hell? After all, my entire understanding of the universe is subject to him, so if I am not convinced of his presence he must be the one who cauised this.My free will is mutually exclusive to his perfect knowledge, if he knows everything then I dont have perfect freewill, if I have perfect free will then he does not know everything.

So how can this god give me responsibility for my "sins"? and at the same time maintain omniscience and omnipotence?

Utajua sasa!
U have been given free will..... tumia kuchagua unataka nini...uzima au kuteketea lol!

 

[Bluray]

Utajua sasa!
U have been given free will..... tumia kuchagua unataka nini...uzima au kuteketea lol!

My bone of contention is that my free will cannot co exist with god's perfect knowledge.

If god has perfect knowledge then I cannot possibly have free will, because even before I make a left turn, he know that I will, and I cannot change that, so no free will.

On the other had, if I have perfect free will, the moment before I make up my mind to go either left or right, even god does not know where I will go. in this case I have perfect free will but god does not have perfect knowledge.A violation of a godly character.

How can you reconcile this conundrum?

 

[WomanOfSubstance]

My bone of contention is that my free will cannot co exist with god's perfect knowledge.

If god has perfect knowledge then I cannot possibly have free will, because even before I make a left turn, he know that I will, and I cannot change that, so no free will.

On the other had, if I have perfect free will, the moment before I make up my mind to go either left or right, even god does not know where I will go. in this case I have perfect free will but god does not have perfect knowledge.A violation of a godly character.

How can you reconcile this conundrum?

This is mind-boggling.....nasikia kizunguzungu nikijaribu kufikiria uuuwiii!
Help me somebody!

 

[Nyani Ngabu]

Heheheheee...kweli unasikia kizunguzungu hadi una double post!!! Mashuti ya Bluray si mchezo....Lol

 

[WomanOfSubstance]

Heheheheee...kweli unasikia kizunguzungu hadi una double post!!! Mashuti ya Bluray si mchezo....Lol

Im sure hata wewe unaona kihindihindi lol....siyo mashuti ya Bluray bali ni hali halisi kwa kiumbe yeyote mwenye kaubongo kenye kuweza kufikiriri.

 

[Nyani Ngabu]

Im sure hata wewe unaona kihindihindi lol....siyo mashuti ya Bluray bali ni hali halisi kwa kiumbe yeyote mwenye kaubongo kenye kuweza kufikiriri.

Nope! Hakuna kihindihindi wala nini. Position mnayochukua nyinyi ni ngumu kuitetea kwa hoja za kimantiki na ushahidi usiopingika. Hakuna jipya analosema Bluray ambalo halijawahi kusemwa. Tembelea forum za atheists na agnostics uone. Huko utazimia kabisa.

Mpaka sasa Bluray katoa challenge kwa huyo mungu wenu amstrike. Voila! mpaka sasa hakuna chochote kilichomtokea jamaa.

 

[WomanOfSubstance]

Nope! Hakuna kihindihindi wala nini. Position mnayochukua nyinyi ni ngumu kuitetea kwa hoja za kimantiki na ushahidi usiopingika. Hakuna jipya analosema Bluray ambalo halijawahi kusemwa. Tembelea forum za atheists na agnostics uone. Huko utazimia kabisa.

Mpaka sasa Bluray katoa challenge kwa huyo mungu wenu amstrike. Voila! mpaka sasa hakuna chochote kilichomtokea jamaa.

Mungu ni mwema sana anakupenda wewe na hata Bluray.Hawezi kukupa pigo..atakupa muda utubu umrudie.Hata Russell alipewa aishi miaka 98 ili ajirudi... sijui kama aliijirudi.Ila kabla yake walikufa wanawe na mkewe na ndugu wengine wa karibu tena vifo vyenye utata..yote haya nadhani yaliweza kumlegeza moyo wake mgumu.

 

[Bluray]

Mungu ni mwema sana anakupenda wewe na hata Bluray.Hawezi kukupa pigo..atakupa muda utubu umrudie.Hata Russell alipewa aishi miaka 98 ili ajirudi... sijui kama aliijirudi.Ila kabla yake walikufa wanawe na mkewe na ndugu wengine wa karibu tena vifo vyenye utata..yote haya nadhani yaliweza kumlegeza moyo wake mgumu.

Kwa hiyo wewe unaamini kwamba circumstances za vifo vya ndugu zina uhusiano na kuwepo/ kutokuwepo kwa mungu?

Just because watu wanapata matatizo ndiyo iwe sababu ya kuamini mungu? If anything matatizo ni ushahidi wa kutokuwapo kwa mungu, kwa sababu hata mimi (mwenye infinitesimally small morality compared to the supposed godhead)ningekuwa ndiye omnipotent omniscient godhead mwenye upendo, nisingeacha watu wapendane halafu kifo kiwatenge. Nisingeruhusu njaa, na watoto wadogo wanaokufa, vita, magonjwa umasikini all these evils.

Swali lingine, je mungu ana upendo wote na nguvu zote?

Kama ana upendo wote na nguvu zote, anaweza kuzuia suffering.

Lakini dunia ina suffering.

Therefore, either mungu hana nguvu zote (hawezi kuzuia suffering) au kama ana nguvu zote na anaweza kuzuia suffering, hana upendo mkuu.

Mungu hawezi kuwa na nguvu ya mwisho, akawa na upendo usio kifani, halafu akaruhusu suffering.I mean hata kama mimi nikipewa uungu kwa masaa 24 tu nitaondoa suffering zote.

Unaona jinsi gani suffering inavyoonyesha kutokuwepo kwa mungu zaidi ya inavyoonyesha kuwepo kwake?

Tatizo ni kwamba watu wakipata matatizo wanataka kufikiria kwa emotion badala ya intellect, wanapata hii ninayoiita "feel good therapy" ya kukimbilia kwa mungu ambaye hata hayupo, kwa kujifariji tu wakielemewa na matatizo.