Why Did Nyerere Support Biafra?

Arafat said:
History does not teach fatalism. There are moments when the will of a handful of free men breaks through determinism and opens up new roads
Zito you are wrong, you are trying to diverge the main issue by asking the panel what Nyerere did, What he did can not substantiate what are doing, so defend your points by facts not history.
People has come to know your real side, and all you are doing very sad to you and shame awake!!
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Tatizo tumefikia wakati sasa hivi, jina la Nyerere linatumika kama msahafu fulani hivi. Ukitaka kuhalalisha chochote mtaje Nyerere tu.

Kuna mkuu mmoja hapo nyuma, great thinker gani sijui yule nimemsahau jina lakini swali lake zito kumshinda Zitto, kauliza something along the lines of "Hivi kiongozi kuwa unpredictable ni sifa nzuri?"

Zitto kwa kujitapa kwamba yeye ni unpredictable anaonyesha uchanga wake wa siasa. Ni kweli giants wengi wa siasa walikuwa unpredictable, kwa sababu siasa zenyewe ziko unpredictable.Lakini hii quality hawakujitapia.

Ukimsoma Machiavelli utaona anavyofundisha Prince anavyotakiwa kuwa kitu kimoja, huku akitoa image ya kitu kingine. Machiavelli anakwambia Prince anatakiwa kuwa unpredictable, huku akiproject image ya kwamba yeye ni predictable.

Wananchi hawataki kiongozi aliye unpredictable, kama kiongozi ni unpredictable, tutajuaje kwamba ahadi zake za uchaguzi atazitekeleza?

Kuwa unpredictable si sifa nzuri kwa kiongozi, ni sifa ya kiongozi mwenye hila, ni sifa ya udikteta. Kiongozi anayefuata rule of law hawezi kuwa unpredictable, ana sheria inayombana asiwe unpredictable na ataifuata.

Huyo Nyerere ambaye Zittoa anmsema alikuwa unpredictable huwezi kusikia hata hotuba moja aliyojitapa kwamba yuko unpredictable. Sanasana utamsikia kila siku anasifia guiding principles zake za ujamaa, Azimio la Arusha, ethics za ukatoliki katika maisha yake personal etc. Kusema "Mimi ni unpredictable" Nyerere asingeweza kwa sababu Nyerere alikuwa msomi old school aliyejua kwamba "that is not a good look, it carries no humility and all traces of arrogance". Kusema "mimi ni unpredictable" kwa kiongozi ni kusema "mimi ni prima donna".

Buffoonery of an Idi Amin level.

Kiongozi anayeweza kusema "mimi ni unpredictable" ni yule tu ambaye hana skills za kuwa truly unpredictable.

The truly unpredictable strive to cultivate an image of predictability.

Words to the wise.
 
Duh! Watu wana maneno kweli,wameshaanza kumwita "Mhe. did supported"
 
Kiranga said:
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Halafu nishasema mfano wa Brazameni, hapa wewe ukija kama mtu usiyejua Kiingereza, wala hatuwezi kukuandama. Tunajua kanuni ya "Noblesse Oblige". To whom much is given, much is required. ............................................................
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hahahhaha ok now nimeelewa

Sasa ameleta hoja/ swali why did nyerere support pan africism na upande mwingine akasupported Biafra kujitenga from Nigeria.?
 
Kiranga said:
why did nyerere supported.....Why did nyerere opposed

Hizi lugha za watu jamani hizi, zinaumbua sana.

Ndiyo mambo ya UDSM tuliyokuwa tunasema hapa. Huyu ni Zitto Kabwe au mshashi tu kajibandika jina? Maana kama Kabwe hatari. Naona nataka kuwa kama yule mchizi aliyekuwa anadai Regia atoe namba yake ya kadi CHADEMA ndiyo aamini kwamba anayeandika madudu yale ni Regia.

Zitto anaharibu mpaka nakuwa siamini kama ni Zitto wa kweli au wa kuchonga.

Lakini kwa products za UDSM siwezi kushangaa.
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UTATA WA KIINGEREZA KWA MHE KABWE KUSIJUMUISHWA UDSM JAMAA ALIHAMIA TU:

Chonde UDSM Kiingereza kisafiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii, nidhamu ya kuwashilisha mawazo ndio kabisaaa huwekwa mbele kama tai pale.

Kumbukumbu zinathibitisha kwamba Zitto alifanya kuhamia tu UDSM akitokea Chuo Kikuu kimoja hivi kule Zanzibar. Tena huko alikua ni rais wa chuo hicho. Kwenye thread fulani humu kulielezwa vile Zitto na wengine walivyotaka kukipindua serikali ya Wanafunzi DARUSO. Ni msukumo wa fulani ulikuemo ndani mwake wakati huo, ndio maana hata baada ya kuhamia UDSM akatamani kuhamia na kiti chake kile kile cha urais toka Zanzibar sawa sawa na Mrema alivyotaka akahamie CUF na uenyekiti wake toka NCCR-Mageuzi.

Hebu kamuulizeni mtapata jibu sahihi hapo. Kwa hivyo endapo kumeonekana kahitilafu fulani kimawasiliano chonde msijumuishe UDSM kwa ujumla wake. Jamaa alifanya KUHAMIA TUUUU!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Mag3 said:
Likewise the perpetually unpredictable are obviously truly predictable !
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But one could argue that they are predictable in their unpredictability but not in the action they will emerge with.

Tatizo Zitto hata si unpredictable, yeye anataka kuwa unpredictable lakini hawezi.

Namsoma Robert Caro hapa on Lyndon Johnson , master of the US senate if there ever was one in the last century. Jamaa always alikuwa ana maintain secrecy na image ya predictability, while truly alikuwa unpredictable.

Rule ya kwanza ya unpredictability ni secrecy, ukishakuja hapa na kutuambia wewe ni unpredictable ushavunja code ya unpredictability.

Sasa hawa wannabe Nyereres they got it all wrong, while they are predictable like stale paste, they try to front that they are unpredictable.
 
Zitto said:
unaridhika na hayo majibu? Dont ever undermine my readings of Nyerere. He was unpredictable on Biafra. Can you imagine mwalimu kuwa timu moja na Boigny wa ivory coast? Unajua hakwenda OAU Summit ya egypt iliyojadili biafra akampeleka Kawawa na kukawa moto timu ya Tanzania ikakimbia? On mwadui, tanzania had 50% shares. Makaburu waliruhusiwa kufanya biashara Tanzania wakati hapakuwa na ruksa kufanya biashara. Unakumbuka ppt zetu hata ilitajwa SA marufuku? Unasema mwl was predictable!
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Then,I was a kid but not a Toddler.

Kwa nini Nyerere alikubali kukaa Meza moja na Dikteta Mobuto wa Congo lakini aligoma katakata kukaa meza moja na Dikteta Iddi Amini wa Uganda hadi kutia ufa EAst Africa Commutnity?

Hili la kusupport Biafra ijitenge, hili lilikuwa ni kosa kubwa hata mlete sababu milioni moja hapa.
Nyerere alichangisha Watanzania kusupport Biafra. Huu ulikuwa ni ukiukaji wa wazo lake kuu alilolipata toka kwa Nkwame Nkuruma kuhusu kuunganisha nchi zote za Afrika?!

Siyo hivyo tu.
Nyerere ana mkono kwenye post colonial Conflict zote kuanzia Sudan mpaka Angola. John Galang kasoma Sec School hadi University hapa Tanzania Museven je?

Wapi Kagame alipata Mafunzo ya Jeshi Si Monduli( Correct me)
Kabila wa Congo( Mzee Mtwaleakiwa mtaani Tanzania)

Kumpa kiburi Samora kuengua wasomi Msumbiji hadi wamozambiki walipoona ujinga?

Kumwagiza Mugabe amwengue Joshua Nkomo kutoka kabila kubwa Zimbabwe??

Dr Savimbi aliishi Mgagao Iringa pamoja na wakimbizi wengi wa South afrika ikiwa nipamoja na Obote.
Angola ilipo pata Uhuru kwa makusudi aliagiza Seles Kama kumwengua Dr Savimbi?!

Pia inasadikiwa kwamba( I am not very much sure abaout this) aliagiza Haile Mariam kumuua Haile Selasi wa Ethiopia kwa sababu alimwona kama mbwa wa mabeberu.

Ok dhambi nyingine kubwa kuliko pengine dhambi zote ni ile ya kulazimisha Obote kurudi Uganda kuendeleza utawala wake baada ya Iddi Amini hali akijua wazi Obotte naye aliua watu wengi tu sawa na IDDI AMIN?

Kuna mambo kadhaa aliyoyafanya Nyerere yako kinyume kabisa na alichokihubiri maisha yake yote.
 
Zitto said:
unaridhika na hayo majibu? Dont ever undermine my readings of Nyerere. He was unpredictable on Biafra. Can you imagine mwalimu kuwa timu moja na Boigny wa ivory coast? Unajua hakwenda OAU Summit ya egypt iliyojadili biafra akampeleka Kawawa na kukawa moto timu ya Tanzania ikakimbia? On mwadui, tanzania had 50% shares. Makaburu waliruhusiwa kufanya biashara Tanzania wakati hapakuwa na ruksa kufanya biashara. Unakumbuka ppt zetu hata ilitajwa SA marufuku? Unasema mwl was predictable!
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Kule Njombe Iringa kuna kampuni inaitwa Kibena Wattle Company. Hii ni Kampuni ya Malkia Elizabeth wa uingerza. Kampuni hii haikutaifishwa Sababu??

Lonrho walimiliki mashamba ya Chai Mufindi Tanga na Njombe hadi mwianzoni mwa 80s alipoamua kutaifisha mahamba yao. Kwanini hakutaifisha mashamba hayo? Nini kilimfanya kuyataifisha miaka ya 80??
 
Zitto,

..tamko la Mwalimu Nyerere, kupitia Chediel Mgonja, kuhusu mgogoro wa Biafra.

..Mgonja hakuwa waziri kamili, bali waziri wa nchi ofisi ya raisi aliyekuwa akishughulikia mambo ya nje.



STATEMENT BY THE MINISTER OF STATE (FOREIGN AFFAIRS) MR. C. Y. MGONJA AT STATE HOUSE ON TANZANIA'S RECOGNITION OF BIAFRA.

On behalf of the Government of the United Republic of Tanzania, I have the following statement to make:-

The declaration of independence by Biafra on the 30th May 1967, came after two military coups d'etat - in January and July 1966 - and two major pogroms against the Ibo people. These pogroms, which also took place in 1966, resulted in the death of about 30,000 men, women and children, and made two million people flee from their homes in other parts of Nigeria to the tribal homeland in Eastern Nigeria. These events had been interspersed and followed by official discussion about a new constitution for Nigeria, and also by continued personal attacks on individual Ibos who had remained outside the Eastern Region.

The basic case for Biafra's secession from the Nigerian Federation is that people from the Eastern Region can no longer feel safe in other parts of the Federation. They are not accepted as citizens of Nigeria by the other citizens of Nigeria. Not only is it impossible for Ibos and people of related tribes to live in an assurance of personal safety if they work outside Biafra; it would also be impossible for any representative of these people to move freely and without fear in any other part of the Federation of Nigeria.

These fears are genuine and deep-seated, nor can anyone say they are groundless. The rights and wrongs of the original coup d'etat, the rights and wrongs of the attitudes taken by different groups in the politics of pre and post coup Nigeria, are all irrelevant to the fear which Ibo people feel. And the peoples of Eastern Nigeria can point to too many bereaved homes, too many maimed people, for anyone to deny the reasonable grounds for their fears. It is these fears which are the root cause both for the secession, and for the fanaticism with which the people of Eastern Nigeria have defend the country they have declared to be independent.

Fears such as now exist among the Ibo peoples do not disappear because someone says they are unjustified, or says that the rest of Nigeria does not want to exterminate the Ibos. Such words have even less effect when the speakers have made no attempt to bring the perpetrators of crimes to justice and when troops under the control of the Federal Nigerian Authorities continue to ill-treat, or to allow others to ill-treat, any Ibos who come within their power, The only way to remove the Easterners' fear is for the Nigerian Authorities to accept its existence, to acknowledge the reason for it, and then to talk on terms of equality with those involved about the way forward.

When people have reason to be afraid you cannot reassure them through the barrel of a gun; your only hope is to talk as one man to another, or as one group to another. It is no use the Federal Authorities demanding that the persecuted should come as a supplicant for mercy, by first renouncing their secession from the political unit. For the secession was declared because the Ibo people felt it to be their only defence against extermination. In their mind, therefore, a demand that they should renounce secession before talks are begun, is equivalent to a demand that they should announce their willingness to be exterminated. If they are wrong in this belief they have to be convinced. And they can only be convinced by talks leading to new constitutional arrangements which take account of their fears.

The people of Biafra have announced their willingness to talk to the Nigerian Authorities without any condition. They cannot renounce their secession before talks, but they do not demand that the Nigerians should recognise it; they ask for talks without conditions. But the federal authorities have refused to talk except on the basis of Biafran surrender. And as the Biafrans believe they will be massacred if they surrender, the Federal Authorities are really refusing to talk at all. For human being do not voluntarily walk towards what they believe to be certain death.

The Federal Government argues that in demanding the renunciation of secession before talks, and indeed in its entire 'Police Action', it is defending the territorial integrity of Nigeria. On this ground it argues also that it has a right to demand support from all other governments, and especially other African governments, for every state, and every state authority, has a duty to defend the sovereignty and integrity of its nation. This is a central part of the function of a national government.

Africa accepts the validity of this point, for African States have more reason than most to fear the effects of disintegration. It is on these grounds that Africa has watched the massacre of tens of thousands of people, has watched the employment of mercenaries by both sides in the current civil war, and has accepted repeated rebuffs of its offers to help by mediation or conciliation.

But for how long should this continue? Africa fought for freedom on the grounds of individual liberty and equality, and on the grounds that every people must have the right to determine for themselves the conditions under which they would be governed. We accept the boundaries we inherited from colonialism, and within them we each worked out for ourselves the constitutional and other arrangements which we felt to be appropriate to the most essential function of a state - that is the safe guarding of life and liberty for its inhabitants.

When the Federation of Nigeria became independent n 1960, the same policy was adopted by all its people. They accepted the federal structure which had been established under the colonial system, and declared their intention to work together. Indeed, the Southern States of the Federation - which includes Biafra - delayed their own demands for independence until the North was ready to join them. At the insistence of the North also, the original suggestion of the National Council for Nigeria and the Cameroons (the political party which had its centre in the South) that Nigeria should be broken up into many small states with a strong centre, was abandoned. The South accepted a structure which virtually allowed the more populous North to dominate the rest.

But the constitution of the Federation of Nigeria was broken in January, 1966, by the first military coup. All hope of its resuscitation was removed by the second coup, and even more by the pogroms of September and October 1966. These events altered the whole basis of the society: after them it was impossible for political and economic relations between the different parts of the old Federation to be restored. They meant that Nigerian unity could only be salvaged for the wreck of inter-tribal violence and of fear by a constitution drawn up in the light of what had happened, and which was generally acceptable to all major elements of the society under the new circumstances. A completely new start had to be made, for the basis of the State had been dissolved in the complete break-down of law and order, and the inter-tribal violence which existed.

The necessity for a new start by agreement was accepted by a conference of military leaders from all parts of the Federation, in Aburi, Ghana, in January 1967. There is a certain difference of opinion about some of the things which were agreed at that conference. But there is no dispute about the fact that everyone joined in a declaration renouncing the use of force as a means of settling the crisis in Nigeria. Nor does anyone dispute that it was greed that a new constitution was to be worked out by agreement, and that in the meantime there would be a repeal of all military decrees issued since January 1966 which reduced the powers of the regions. There was also agreement about rehabilitation payments for those who had been forced to flee from their homes, and about members of the armed forces being stationed in their home regions.

The Aburi conference could have provided the new start which was necessary if the unity of Nigeria was to be maintained. But before the end of the same month, General Gowon was restating his commitment to the creation of new States, and his determination to oppose any form of confederation. And on the last day of January, the Federal Military Authorities were already giving administrative reasons for delay in the implementation the agreements reached at Aburi, It was the middle of March before a constitutional decree was issue which was supposed to regularise the position in accordance with the decisions taken there. But unfortunately this decree also included a new clause - which had not been agreed - and which gave the Federal Authorities a reserve power over the Regions, and this completely nullified the whole operation. Nor had any payment been made by the Federal Government to back up the monetary commitment for rehabilitation which it had accepted in the Ghana meeting.

In short, the necessity for an arrangement which would take account of the fears created during 1966 was accepted at Aburi, and renounced thereafter by the Federal Authorities. Yet they are now claim to be defending the integrity of the country in which they failed to guarantee the most elementary safety of the twelve million peoples of Eastern Nigeria. These people had been massacred in other parts of Nigeria without the Federal Authorities apparently having either the will or the power to protect hem. When they retreated to their tribal homeland they were expected to accept the domination of the same peoples who instigated, or allowed, the persecution in the country which they are being told is theirs - i.e. Nigeria.

Surely when a whole people is rejected by the majority of the state in which they live, they must have the right to life under a different kind of arrangement which does secure their existence.

States are made to serve people; governments are established to protect the citizen of a state against external enemies and internal wrong-doers. It is on these grounds that people surrender their right and power of self-defence to the government of the state in which they live. But when the machinery of the State, and the powers of the Government, are turned against a whole group of the society on the grounds of racial, tribal or religious
prejudice, then the victims have the right to take back the powers they have surrendered, and to defend themselves.

For while people have a duty to defend the integrity of their state, and even to die in its defence this duty stems from the fact that it is theirs, and that it is important to their well-being and to the future of their children. When the sate ceases to stand for the honour, the protection, and the well-being of all its citizens, then it is no longer the instrument of those it has rejected. In such a case the people have the right to create another instrument for their protection - in other words, to create another state.

This right cannot be abrogated by constitution, nor by outsiders. The basis of statehood, and of unity can only be general acceptance by the participants. When more than twelve million people have become convinced that they are rejected, and that there is no longer any basis for unity between them and other groups of people, then that unity has already ceased to exist. You cannot kill thousands of people, and keep killing more, in the name of unity. There is no unity between the dead and those who killed them; and there is no unity in slavery or domination.

Africa needs unity. We need unity over the whole continent, and in the meantime we need unity within the existing states of Africa. It is a tragedy when we experience a setback to our goal of unity. But the basis of our need for unity, and the reason for our desire for it, is the greater well being, and the greater security, of the people of Africa. Unity by conquest is impossible. It is not practicable; and even if military might could force the acceptance of a particular authority, the purpose of unity would have been destroyed. For the purpose of unity, its justification, is the service of all peoples who are united together. The general consent of all the people involved is the only basis on which unity in Africa can be maintained or extended.

The fact that the Federation of Nigeria was created in 1960 with the consent of all the peoples does not alter that fact. That Federation, and that basis of consent, has since been destroyed. Nor is this the first time the world had seen a reduction in political unity. We have seen the creation of the Mali Federation, the creation of a Union between Egypt and Syria, and the establishment of the Federation of Rhodesia and Nyasaland. And we have also seen the dissolution of all these attempts at unity, and the consequent recognition of the separate nations which were once involved. The world has also seen the creation of India and Pakistan out of what was once the Indian Empire. We have all recognised both these nation states and done our best to help them deal with the millions of people made homeless by the conflict and division. None of these things mean that we have liked these examples of greater disunity. They mean that we recognise that in all these cases the people are unwilling to remain in one political unit.

We recognise Mali, Egypt, Syria, Malawi, Zambia, Pakistan and India, What right have we to refuse, in the name of unity, to recognise the fact of Biafra? For years the people of that State struggled to maintain unity with the other peoples in the Federation of Nigeria; even after the pogroms of 1966 they tried to work out a new form of unity which would guarantee their safety; they have demonstrated by ten months of bitter fighting that they have decided upon a new political organisation and are willing to defend it.

The world has taken it upon itself to utter many ill-informed criticisms of the Jews of Europe for going to their deaths without any concerted struggle. But out of sympathy for the suffering of these people, and in recognition of the world's failure to take action at the appropriate time, the United Nations established the State of Israel in territory which had belonged to the Arabs for thousands of years. It was felt that only by the establishment of a Jewish homeland, and Jewish national state, could Jews be expected to live in the world under conditions of human security. Tanzania has recognised the State of Israel and will continue to do so because of its belief that every people must have some place in the world where they are not liable to be rejected by their fellow citizens.

But the Biafrans have now suffered the same kind of rejection within their state that the Jews of Germany experienced. Fortunately they already had a homeland. They have retreated to it for their own protection, and for the same reason - after all other efforts had failed - they have declared it to be an independent state.

In the light of these circumstances, Tanzania feels obliged to recognise the setback to African Unity which has occurred.

We therefore recognise the State of Biafra as an independent sovereign entity, and as a member of the community of nations. Only by this act of recognition can we remain true to our conviction that the purpose of society and of all political organisation, is the service of man.

Dar-es-Salaam,
13th April, 1968.

cc The Boss
 
Nimesoma maelezo hayo hapo juu kwa kweli nimesikitika sana kuwa kumbe tuna Watanzania ambao pengine wanaongozwa kwa chuki au hawaielewi historia vizuri. Umesema kuwa Mwalimu hakuwahi kukutana na Idi Amini? Hivi pale Iddi Amin alipokuja Mwanza alikutana na nani ile mwaka 1973? Je, historia yako kuhusu kuvunjika kwa Jumuia ya Afrika Mashariki inaonyesha sababu ni kwamba Nyerere na Amini ndio walikuwa maadui? Je, mchango wa Njonjo na Kenyatta kuvunjika kwa Jumuia hiyo huoni? Je pale Nyerere aliposema kuwa Kenya inaongozwa na Manyang'au na Njonjo akasema kwamba "Tanzania is a man eat nothing country". Nyerere alikuwa tayari kuendeleza Jumuia hiyo pamoja na Uganda ila Amini akakataa. Ninakumbuka vizuri sana hivyo kwani kipindi kile nilikuwa Njombe kaka yake Anna Makinda akiwa rubani ndiye aliyefanikisha kuleta ndege moja Tanzania na ndio ndege ambayo Air Tanzania ilianza nayo.

Kuhusu Nyerere kuwa na mkono katika migogoro Afrika hii inaonyesha kuwa kweli huelewi jukumu ambalo Tanzania ilikuwa imetwikwa na OAU. Tanzania ndiyo ilikuwa Makao Makuu ya Kamati ya Ukombozi wa Afrika. Je unafahamu kuwa mara tu baada ya Angola kupata uhuru tarehe 11 Novemba 1975 mataifa makubwa ndiyo yalichagiza vita vya Angola. Sasa hapo unasema kuwa Nyerere ndiye aliyeleta mgogoro wa Angola. Bila aibu vilevile unamuingiza katika mgogoro wa Msumbiji. Hivi kweli unaamini kuwa yeye ndiye aliyeleta mgogoro huo. Je Nyerere ndiye alianzisha na kufadhili Renamo?

kana kwamba haitoshi unasema ndiye aliyesababisha mgogoro wa Sudan? Je unafahamu yote yaliyotokea huko mwaka 1956 na miaka ya mwanzoni mwa 1970 na jinsi haki za watu wa kusini zilivyokuwa zinavizwa? Je ni yeye aliyempa Garang eneo la kupigana kutokea Kenya?

Umemuingiza Savimbi unasema kuwa alimuagiza Seles Khama hapo ndio nimechoka. Seles Khama alikuwa Raisi wa Botswana na kwa akili yako unaamini kuwa alikuwa na uwezo wa kumuondoa Savimbi? Je, si Marekani iliyompa Savimbi msaada, je MPLA siyo iliyopata msaada wa Urusi na Cuba? Je si FNLA iliyopata msaada kutoka China? Tafadhali soma historia vizuri au uliza watu wanaojua?

Kuonyeshs kuwa uelewa wako ni mdogo katika historia ya harakati za ukombozi wa nchi za kusini mwa Afrika unasema kuwa Mwalimu alimuchagiza Mugabe amuengua Nkomo kutoka katika kabila kubwa huko Zimbabwe. Hii inasikitisha. Nkomo alikuwa Mndebele ambalo ni asilimia 20 ya watu wa Zimbabwe wakati Mugabe in Mshona (80%) na hivyo kura za uchaguzi mwaka 1980 zilivyokuwa? Mugabe alikuwa ZANU-PR, Nkomo ZAPU.

vilevile bila hata ushahidi unasema kuwa Mwalimu ndiye aliyeagiza Mengistu amuue Haile Selassie? Hii ni hatari na inaelekea vyanzo vyako vya habari ni vijiweni na kwa kweli vijiwe vya majungu.

Suala la Oboto hilo ndilo ambalo uko sahihi na pale alipogundua kuwa Obote ameua watu kushinda hata Amini alimwambia hataki hata kumuona. Obote alipokelewa na Kaunda kwa huruma tokea mwaka 1985. Nyerere na Obote hawakuonana tena kwani Nyerere alibaini kuwa Obote alisaliti yote ambayo alikuwa anaamini.

Ninasema kuwa Nyerere hakuwa mkamilifu kama ambavyo wanadamu wote si wakamilifu (Operesheni Vijiji, Vyama vya Ushirika, Madaraka Mikoani). Lakini ni mtu aliyejitoa kupigania haki za watu duniani na alikuwa tayari kupambana na mataifa makubwa katika kupigania hay. Kwa bahati mbaya watu ambao uelewa wao wa historia na sayansi ya siasa siku zote wamekuwa wakiendesha kampani chafu sana za kupotosha ukweli. Watu wanamtuhumu udini? Hivi kweli mtu na akili yake anaweza kusema ujinga huu? Je, si Nyerere huyo huyo aliyetaifisha shule za makanisa, za kihindu na kuzifanya kuwa za umma? Je, si Nyerere aliyepeleka Jeshi la Polisi 300 kusaidia kulinda Mapinduzi ya Zanzibar hapo Januariulai 1964? Je si Nyerere huyo huyo aliyeshirikiana na viongozi wengine wa Afrika Mashariki kumuondoa John Okello(Field Marshal wa Mapinduzi ya Zanzibar ili Karume na wenzake waweze kutawala kule?
 
Rugemeleza said:
Then,I was a kid but not a Toddler.

Kwa nini Nyerere alikubali kukaa Meza moja na Dikteta Mobuto wa Congo lakini aligoma katakata kukaa meza moja na Dikteta Iddi Amini wa Uganda hadi kutia ufa EAst Africa Commutnity?

Hili la kusupport Biafra ijitenge, hili lilikuwa ni kosa kubwa hata mlete sababu milioni moja hapa.
Nyerere alichangisha Watanzania kusupport Biafra. Huu ulikuwa ni ukiukaji wa wazo lake kuu alilolipata toka kwa Nkwame Nkuruma kuhusu kuunganisha nchi zote za Afrika?!

Siyo hivyo tu.
Nyerere ana mkono kwenye post colonial Conflict zote kuanzia Sudan mpaka Angola. John Galang kasoma Sec School hadi University hapa Tanzania Museven je?

Wapi Kagame alipata Mafunzo ya Jeshi Si Monduli( Correct me)
Kabila wa Congo( Mzee Mtwaleakiwa mtaani Tanzania)

Kumpa kiburi Samora kuengua wasomi Msumbiji hadi wamozambiki walipoona ujinga?

Kumwagiza Mugabe amwengue Joshua Nkomo kutoka kabila kubwa Zimbabwe??

Dr Savimbi aliishi Mgagao Iringa pamoja na wakimbizi wengi wa South afrika ikiwa nipamoja na Obote.
Angola ilipo pata Uhuru kwa makusudi aliagiza Seles Kama kumwengua Dr Savimbi?!

Pia inasadikiwa kwamba( I am not very much sure abaout this) aliagiza Haile Mariam kumuua Haile Selasi wa Ethiopia kwa sababu alimwona kama mbwa wa mabeberu.

Ok dhambi nyingine kubwa kuliko pengine dhambi zote ni ile ya kulazimisha Obote kurudi Uganda kuendeleza utawala wake baada ya Iddi Amini hali akijua wazi Obotte naye aliua watu wengi tu sawa na IDDI AMIN?

Kuna mambo kadhaa aliyoyafanya Nyerere yako kinyume kabisa na alichokihubiri maisha yake yote.
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Nimesoma maelezo hayo hapo juu kwa kweli nimesikitika sana kuwa kumbe tuna Watanzania ambao pengine wanaongozwa kwa chuki au hawaielewi historia vizuri. Umesema kuwa Mwalimu hakuwahi kukutana na Idi Amini? Hivi pale Iddi Amin alipokuja Mwanza alikutana na nani ile mwaka 1973? Je, historia yako kuhusu kuvunjika kwa Jumuia ya Afrika Mashariki inaonyesha sababu ni kwamba Nyerere na Amini ndio walikuwa maadui? Je, mchango wa Njonjo na Kenyatta kuvunjika kwa Jumuia hiyo huoni? Je pale Nyerere aliposema kuwa Kenya inaongozwa na Manyang'au na Njonjo akasema kwamba "Tanzania is a man eat nothing country". Nyerere alikuwa tayari kuendeleza Jumuia hiyo pamoja na Uganda ila Amini akakataa. Ninakumbuka vizuri sana hivyo kwani kipindi kile nilikuwa Njombe kaka yake Anna Makinda akiwa rubani ndiye aliyefanikisha kuleta ndege moja Tanzania na ndio ndege ambayo Air Tanzania ilianza nayo.

Kuhusu Nyerere kuwa na mkono katika migogoro Afrika hii inaonyesha kuwa kweli huelewi jukumu ambalo Tanzania ilikuwa imetwikwa na OAU. Tanzania ndiyo ilikuwa Makao Makuu ya Kamati ya Ukombozi wa Afrika. Je unafahamu kuwa mara tu baada ya Angola kupata uhuru tarehe 11 Novemba 1975 mataifa makubwa ndiyo yalichagiza vita vya Angola. Sasa hapo unasema kuwa Nyerere ndiye aliyeleta mgogoro wa Angola. Bila aibu vilevile unamuingiza katika mgogoro wa Msumbiji. Hivi kweli unaamini kuwa yeye ndiye aliyeleta mgogoro huo. Je Nyerere ndiye alianzisha na kufadhili Renamo?

kana kwamba haitoshi unasema ndiye aliyesababisha mgogoro wa Sudan? Je unafahamu yote yaliyotokea huko mwaka 1956 na miaka ya mwanzoni mwa 1970 na jinsi haki za watu wa kusini zilivyokuwa zinavizwa? Je ni yeye aliyempa Garang eneo la kupigana kutokea Kenya?

Umemuingiza Savimbi unasema kuwa alimuagiza Seles Khama hapo ndio nimechoka. Seles Khama alikuwa Raisi wa Botswana na kwa akili yako unaamini kuwa alikuwa na uwezo wa kumuondoa Savimbi? Je, si Marekani iliyompa Savimbi msaada, je MPLA siyo iliyopata msaada wa Urusi na Cuba? Je si FNLA iliyopata msaada kutoka China? Tafadhali soma historia vizuri au uliza watu wanaojua?

Kuonyeshs kuwa uelewa wako ni mdogo katika historia ya harakati za ukombozi wa nchi za kusini mwa Afrika unasema kuwa Mwalimu alimuchagiza Mugabe amuengua Nkomo kutoka katika kabila kubwa huko Zimbabwe. Hii inasikitisha. Nkomo alikuwa Mndebele ambalo ni asilimia 20 ya watu wa Zimbabwe wakati Mugabe in Mshona (80%) na hivyo kura za uchaguzi mwaka 1980 zilivyokuwa? Mugabe alikuwa ZANU-PR, Nkomo ZAPU.

vilevile bila hata ushahidi unasema kuwa Mwalimu ndiye aliyeagiza Mengistu amuue Haile Selassie? Hii ni hatari na inaelekea vyanzo vyako vya habari ni vijiweni na kwa kweli vijiwe vya majungu.

Suala la Oboto hilo ndilo ambalo uko sahihi na pale alipogundua kuwa Obote ameua watu kushinda hata Amini alimwambia hataki hata kumuona. Obote alipokelewa na Kaunda kwa huruma tokea mwaka 1985. Nyerere na Obote hawakuonana tena kwani Nyerere alibaini kuwa Obote alisaliti yote ambayo alikuwa anaamini.

Ninasema kuwa Nyerere hakuwa mkamilifu kama ambavyo wanadamu wote si wakamilifu (Operesheni Vijiji, Vyama vya Ushirika, Madaraka Mikoani). Lakini ni mtu aliyejitoa kupigania haki za watu duniani na alikuwa tayari kupambana na mataifa makubwa katika kupigania hay. Kwa bahati mbaya watu ambao uelewa wao wa historia na sayansi ya siasa siku zote wamekuwa wakiendesha kampani chafu sana za kupotosha ukweli. Watu wanamtuhumu udini? Hivi kweli mtu na akili yake anaweza kusema ujinga huu? Je, si Nyerere huyo huyo aliyetaifisha shule za makanisa, za kihindu na kuzifanya kuwa za umma? Je, si Nyerere aliyepeleka Jeshi la Polisi 300 kusaidia kulinda Mapinduzi ya Zanzibar hapo Januariulai 1964? Je si Nyerere huyo huyo aliyeshirikiana na viongozi wengine wa Afrika Mashariki kumuondoa John Okello(Field Marshal wa Mapinduzi ya Zanzibar ili Karume na wenzake waweze kutawala kule?[/QUOTE]

Nakubali masahihisho yako.
Historia yako ni ile ambayo kila mtu amefundishwa na kukaririshwa, hii ya kwangu ni ya mafichoni inayogusa siri na unyeti. Si lazima uiamini.
Mtu anyebisha hata mimi namuunga mkono kwa sababu inakiuka kawaida tuliyojazwa na tunayoendelea kujazwa vichwani.

Kuwa na mkono haina maana kushiriki 95% au 100% kama unavyotaka iwe.
Maelezo yangu kadhaa ni kutoka behind the scene.

Baada ya jaribio la Mapinduzi 1964 Nyerere alikimbilia kigamboni kisha baadaye kuvaa baibui na kufichwa misheni nayo utadai mimi sijui Historia. Of course hawafundishi Darasani.

Commandoo alishindwa uchaguzi Zanzibar Nyerere akachakachua matokeo. Sasa utaniuliza historia hiyo imeandikwa wapi?
Matokeo yake CCM mpaka leo bado wanatumia sababu ile ile kuendeleza ubabe wa kishenzi(babarian) Okay ushahidi sina kwa sababu si sehemu ya Historia ya Tanzania na haijawahi kuandikwa.

Nyerere alisaidia kutia UFA EAC ndivyo nilivyosema alisimama kidete kutaka kuleta suluhu? Hapana?
Kwa maneno yako, Kuita Viongozi na wananchi wa nchi nyingine manyang'au ni hoja yenye kuleta suluhisho?? Hapana.

John Galan amesoma Tanzania hubishi?
Sijui alienda na JKT vilevile?

Mawazo ya Mapambano kusini mwa Sudan alitoa wapi?? Kwa Kenyatta Kenya? Mmmh!?

John Galang Kafa Amani inaonekana kutaka kupatikana South Sudan.

Nyerere hakuwahi kumsaidia John Galang wala walika hawajuani mpaka alipoanzisha mapambano kusini mwa Sudan.

Kifo cha Samora ndicho kimeleta amani na maendeleo Msumbiji Samora alikuwa Nuksi.

Kuhusu kuuawa kwa Haile selassie nimeonyesha wazi kwamba niko tayari kusahihishwa wewe umeconclude. Hili stori nilinyaka kwa mtu aliyekuwa mmoja wa BG wa Nyerere na baadaye kustaafu. Ni Marehemu siku hizi la sivyo ningemwuliza e bwana vipi ulikuwa ulinifunga kamba??
Okay nayo hii haimo kwenye historia ni Unyaa mtupu.

Tanzania ndiyo ilikuwa makao makuu ya kukomboa Kusini mwa Afrika nakubali, kukomboa Congo Je?
Uganda Je? Biafra je? Nazo ziko South Afrika?

Mashona na Matebere 20% to 80% you are very right. Hapo umenipata.

Hata Hivyo Mugabe alichakachua kura kutoka Matebele land kwa kulipua Bomu gari lililobeba kura kutoka Matebele Land nalo hilo utabisha?? Hii ilikuwa kwenye News nami nilikua najua kusoma na kuandika Kiswahili na Umombo kiduchu.

Bob Marley alivuta bangi mbele ya Halaiki siku ya Uhuru wa Zimbabwe nalo hilo utabisha.(Ndivyo mwambata mmoja wa cheo cha juu wa kijeshi alivyonitonya)

Nyerere alijua Obote kaua watu wengi baada ya kumuondoa Iddi Amin? Give me a break!

Rais wa kwanza wa Angola ni Augustino Neto Seles Kama imeingia kwa bahati mbaya.Somo la Historia Primary nilikuwa second to No body.

Kuna haja ya kurekebishwa tarehe na mambo madogo madogo lakini sihitaji kuuliza mtu historia ya Zanzibar na Tanganyika?

Siku ya Mapinduzi ya Zanzibar Karume aliingia mitini kuja Dar. Huo ni ukweli unaouma hadi kwenye mifupa. The guy was just another chicken. Aliyekuweko Zanzibar ni John Okello na troupe lake.

Lakini siku zote Historia ya Tanzania inasema ASP ndo walioandaa mapinduzi. How?Theyalways dont go into details why ? Because ASP were not there.
Mimi sijakubali kulishwa Pumba. Kwanini walipiga Marufuku Kitabu cha Revolution in Zanzibar by John Okello in early 70s? Because they wanted to bend the truth??

The problem is, when you bend the truth the truth makes big curve and comes back to the point where you started bending it. Bending the truth makes a parfect circle.
 
Zitto said:
why did nyerere support pan africanism and at the same time Biafra? Why did nyerere oppose south african capital and at the same time allow debeers into our diamond?
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Why would you wanna ask pointless questions like these if you think you already know the "answers"? After all, this isn't arithmetic where 2+2 always equals 4!
 
Binafsi naunga mkono kwa asilimia 100% uamuzi wa Wabunge wa CHADEMA kususia hotuba ya Prez kwa sababu za kutomtambua. Hata hivyo sioni shida yeyote kwa Zitto kuweka msimamo wake kwa nini alikacha kikao na kwamba yeye anamheshimu Amiri jeshi wa Majeshi ya Tanzania.

Nadhani ndani ya Chadema kuna Demkrasi ndiyo maana walipoiga kura ili kupitisha hoja ya kususia hotuba ya Prez. Kam mtu anatumia haki yake ya Ubunge na uwakirishi kwenye kinyume cha maamuzi ya wengi ndani ya cham sioni ni vipi aandamwe. Kwani Demokrasia ni kulazimishana??

Wanachama wa cham kimoja siku zote watatofautiana katika mambo mengi na watakubaliana katika mambo mengi vilevile.

Mbunge anajitosa kuwania kiti cha ubunge kwa utashi wake kwanza kisha kwa kuchaguliwa na wapiga kura. Mimi sijui ni vipi mbunge anaweza kuwawakirisha wananchi wake wote kwa 100% bila kumuudhi hata mmoja. Si kila aliyemchagua Zitto anaunga mkono kila hoja ya Zitto, lakini naamini wote kwa wanmuunga mkono Zitto katika utendaji wake.

Jambo jingingine kubwa ambalo sisi wote nilazima tukumbuke ni ukweli kwamba siku zote tunawalaumu viongozi kwa kufanya mambo katika namna tusiyo ipenda au tusiyokubaliana nayo. Wakati huo huo hatulaumu watu wenye nyazifa nyeti kama Ubunge wakaao kimya Bungeni au wafuatao upepo kama Bendera kuepuka lawama bila kushikiria kwa mikono miwili kile wanachoamini.
Kuna viongozi wanaolaumiwa kwasababu wanakataa kuwa suckers. Wkati huo huo kuna viongozi wanaokwepa lawama kwa gharama ya kuwa Suckers, viongozi hawa wako tayari kumeza hata visivyomezeka ili mradi kushape face value zao mbele ya umma.

Kiongozi wa Siasa ni lazima tumjadiri kwa jambo mojamoja kisha tuhitimishe kwa kujadiri mambo yake yote kwa ujumla. Kwa udadisi huu kwa mfano; Tukimuweka Nyerere katika mizania ya jambo moja moja kuna mambo mengi sana yenye kuleta maswali na hata ukinyume, lakini tukimuweka katika mzani wa ujumla. Nyerere ni kiongozi aliyepigani haki za wanyonge duniani. Period.
 
Madilu:

Majeshi mbele kwa mbele. Katika political pluralism ni lazima tukubali kuwa wanaochaguliwa nao wana mawazo yao.
 

Nakubali masahihisho yako.
Historia yako ni ile ambayo kila mtu amefundishwa na kukaririshwa, hii ya kwangu ni ya mafichoni inayogusa siri na unyeti. Si lazima uiamini.
Mtu anyebisha hata mimi namuunga mkono kwa sababu inakiuka kawaida tuliyojazwa na tunayoendelea kujazwa vichwani.

Kuwa na mkono haina maana kushiriki 95% au 100% kama unavyotaka iwe.
Maelezo yangu kadhaa ni kutoka behind the scene.

Baada ya jaribio la Mapinduzi 1964 Nyerere alikimbilia kigamboni kisha baadaye kuvaa baibui na kufichwa misheni nayo utadai mimi sijui Historia. Of course hawafundishi Darasani.

Commandoo alishindwa uchaguzi Zanzibar Nyerere akachakachua matokeo. Sasa utaniuliza historia hiyo imeandikwa wapi?
Matokeo yake CCM mpaka leo bado wanatumia sababu ile ile kuendeleza ubabe wa kishenzi(babarian) Okay ushahidi sina kwa sababu si sehemu ya Historia ya Tanzania na haijawahi kuandikwa.

Nyerere alisaidia kutia UFA EAC ndivyo nilivyosema alisimama kidete kutaka kuleta suluhu? Hapana?
Kwa maneno yako, Kuita Viongozi na wananchi wa nchi nyingine manyang'au ni hoja yenye kuleta suluhisho?? Hapana.

John Galan amesoma Tanzania hubishi?
Sijui alienda na JKT vilevile?

Mawazo ya Mapambano kusini mwa Sudan alitoa wapi?? Kwa Kenyatta Kenya? Mmmh!?

John Galang Kafa Amani inaonekana kutaka kupatikana South Sudan.

Nyerere hakuwahi kumsaidia John Galang wala walika hawajuani mpaka alipoanzisha mapambano kusini mwa Sudan.

Kifo cha Samora ndicho kimeleta amani na maendeleo Msumbiji Samora alikuwa Nuksi.

Kuhusu kuuawa kwa Haile selassie nimeonyesha wazi kwamba niko tayari kusahihishwa wewe umeconclude. Hili stori nilinyaka kwa mtu aliyekuwa mmoja wa BG wa Nyerere na baadaye kustaafu. Ni Marehemu siku hizi la sivyo ningemwuliza e bwana vipi ulikuwa ulinifunga kamba??
Okay nayo hii haimo kwenye historia ni Unyaa mtupu.

Tanzania ndiyo ilikuwa makao makuu ya kukomboa Kusini mwa Afrika nakubali, kukomboa Congo Je?
Uganda Je? Biafra je? Nazo ziko South Afrika?

Mashona na Matebere 20% to 80% you are very right. Hapo umenipata.

Hata Hivyo Mugabe alichakachua kura kutoka Matebele land kwa kulipua Bomu gari lililobeba kura kutoka Matebele Land nalo hilo utabisha?? Hii ilikuwa kwenye News nami nilikua najua kusoma na kuandika Kiswahili na Umombo kiduchu.

Bob Marley alivuta bangi mbele ya Halaiki siku ya Uhuru wa Zimbabwe nalo hilo utabisha.(Ndivyo mwambata mmoja wa cheo cha juu wa kijeshi alivyonitonya)

Nyerere alijua Obote kaua watu wengi baada ya kumuondoa Iddi Amin? Give me a break!

Rais wa kwanza wa Angola ni Augustino Neto Seles Kama imeingia kwa bahati mbaya.Somo la Historia Primary nilikuwa second to No body.

Kuna haja ya kurekebishwa tarehe na mambo madogo madogo lakini sihitaji kuuliza mtu historia ya Zanzibar na Tanganyika?

Siku ya Mapinduzi ya Zanzibar Karume aliingia mitini kuja Dar. Huo ni ukweli unaouma hadi kwenye mifupa. The guy was just another chicken. Aliyekuweko Zanzibar ni John Okello na troupe lake.

Lakini siku zote Historia ya Tanzania inasema ASP ndo walioandaa mapinduzi. How?Theyalways dont go into details why ? Because ASP were not there.
Mimi sijakubali kulishwa Pumba. Kwanini walipiga Marufuku Kitabu cha Revolution in Zanzibar by John Okello in early 70s? Because they wanted to bend the truth??

The problem is, when you bend the truth the truth makes big curve and comes back to the point where you started bending it. Bending the truth makes a parfect circle.[/QUOTE]

kwa bahati mbaya mimi ni mtu ambaye anafuatilia mambo ya nchi zetu kwa karibu sana na historia ninaifahamu sana hii si historia ya kukaririshwa ni mtu ambaye elimu yangu haiwezi kutiliwa mashaka hata kidogo na sipendi kujisifu kwayo lakini si elimu ya kuupuzwa na mtu ambaye ninaona inabidi akubali kuwa anatakiwa kujifunza vitu vingi katika masuala haya. Unaweza ukagoogle jina langu na utaelewa.

Ninafahamu kuwa Garang kasomea Dar es Salaam tena wakati mmoja na Museveni. Agustino Neto. Kuhusu Obote kama unazungumzia mauaji yaliyotokea mwaka 1966 wakati wa kumfukuza Kabaka. ikumbukwe kuwa watu walioawa wakati ule walikuwa ni makumi hata hivyo kwangu miimi kifo hata cha mtu mmoja kwangu ni kibaya zaidi. Lakini ukweli unabaki kuwa ule ulikuwa ni mgogoro mkubwa wa kisiasa na uliosababisha kuondolewa Raisi wa Nchi na kuvunjwa kwa tawala za kifalme za makabila ya nchi hiyo. Idi Amin ndiye aliongoza vita vya kumung'oa Kabaka. Ukweli ni kuwa Obote aliporudi mara ya pili 1980-1985 mauaji aliyoyafanya ni makubwa sana. Nina mwenzangu hapa Harvard ambaye anafanya Ph.D yake kuhusu matatizo ya Uganda na amejaza lundo la vitabu kuhusu mgogoro huo na mtu ukipitia inatakiwa ukae chini na kujiuliza mengi.

Kwa kweli kujibu hoja zako nyingine inabidi mtu uonyeshe uvumilivy mkubwa kwani zinanifanya nijiulize kama kweli ninajadiliana na mtu anayefahamu kitu anachokizungumza. Na kati ya hayo ni ile hoja kuhusu kuwa baada ya Garang kufariki ndiyo amani inataka kupatikana Sudan? Hivi aliyesaini mkataba wa amani kati ya Kaskazini na kusini hakuwa John Garang? Tafadhali kuwa makini na si kuzungumza kwa kukurupuka. Wazungu husema "don't be jumpy."

Imenisikitisha kusema kuwa kifo cha Samora ndicho kilisababisha amani kupatikana Msumbiji hiyo inaonyesha kuwa ulikuwa unawaunga mkono Makaburu ambao waliitungua ndege yake na kumuua? Unawaunga mkono makaburu ambao walikuwa wakiwaunga mkono Renamo? Msimamo wako hauna tofauti na Kamuzu Banda aliyekuwa upande wa Makaburu. Kumbe tuna Waafrika wenzetu ambao wanaunga mkono kunyanyaswa kwa Waafrika. Hii inasikitisha kwani unasema unakaa huku Marekani ningetemea kuwa harakati za Waaafrika-Wamerikani kupigania haki zao pamoja na haki tunazozifaidi watu wa Afrika na wenye asili ya Afrika. Amani kweli limbukeni hana haya.

Kuhusu Congo sijui hoja yako ni ipi kama ni mauaji ya Lumumba ikumbukwe kuwa wakati Lumumba anapinduliwa na baadae anauwa Januari 1961 nchi yetu haikuwa huru. Kuhusu Mobutu unajua vema kuwa Mwalimu hakuwa mpenzi wa Mobutu hata kidogo lakini ilibidi amvumilie kutokana na kuwa mataifa makubwa ya magharibi yalikuwa ndiyo yakimpa ulinzi mkubwa. a katika Tasnifu yangu ninazungumzia jinsi nchi hiyo ilivyoguezwa kuwa shamba la bibi la mataifa makubwa na kwa kweli inasikitisha sana. Wabelgiji wamefahamu muongo mmoja uliopita kuwa kumbe wao ndio walliosababisha kifo cha Lumumba pamoja na Wamarekani. Lakini ukumbuke aliwakaribisha watu kama akina Kabila ili kuweza kuanzisha harakati hizo. Kama umesoma kitabu cha Che Guevera utagundua hilo na kama kumbukumbu zako vizuri wakina Kabila mwaka 1975 waliteka wazungu wanne kule Kigoma waliokuwa wanafanya kazi na Jane Goodall hiyo ilimsumbua sana Nyerere.

Kuhusu uchaguzi wa Zimbabwe mwaka 1980 hoja yako ya kuwa Mugabe ndiye alichakachua matokeo hiyo inaonyesha kuwa unazungumza bila kuelewa ni nani alikuwa anasimamia uchaguzi huo. Kwa taarifa yako Waingereza ndio walisimamia uchaguzi ule. Na hata kama ningekubali kuwa tuhuma za kuwa gari lililobeba kura lililpuliwa ni wazi kabisa kuwa kura zisingetosha kwani matokeo kwa bahati mbaya yalikuwa ni kwa misingi ya ukabila Mugabe akishinda kwa Washona na Nkomo akishinda kwa Wandebele. Vibaraka wa Wazungu Abel Muzorewa na Ndabaningi Sithole waliambulia patupu.

Suala la Bob Marley kuvuta bangi ni kweli lakini sijui linaingiaje katika mjadala huu. Na wakati ule ule wimbo wa Zimbabwe au "Africans a-liberate Zimbabwe" tuliugeuza na kuuita "Wameninyima Bangi Zimbabwe"

Nadhani nimejitahidi kutoa ufafanuzi juu ya mambo ambayo ni ya msingi na ninategemea utakuwa umefaidika na majadiliano haya kama sivyo basi ni bahati mbaya na siwezi kukusaidia katika hilo.
 
Madela,

If I read you well, is there posibility Mzee Wetu ali-create destabilization ya nchi zinazotuzunguka ili tuwe himaya ya kuabudiwa?
 
Mkuu wangu nadhani huelewi siasa isipokuwa za Bongo. Maana kamili ya neno Upinzani linasimama kupingana na chama tawala, haijalishi wao wamefanya mazuri kiasi gani..Na msimamo wa chama hutokana na nidham ya kuelewa Upinzani hutafuta makosa na kushindilia kidole ktk donda hilo.

Siku zote mwanasiasa Mpinzani hutazama mapungufu ya chama kingine na kuyaweka mbele na hata yale mazuri pia unatakiwa kutafuta sababu za Kiitikadi kwa nini chama chako au mrengo wako unapingana na mazuri hayo na kuelekeza hasara za maamuzi au kufuata utaratibu huo. Laa sivyo inajenga imani kwa wananchi kwamba kwa nini chama chako hakikufikiria hivyo toka mwanzo?.. hivyo unapinga sera kwa kujenga sera inayopingana hata kama kuna ukweli zaidi ktk sera ya mwenzako.

Ndivyo Republican wamefanya kwa Demokratic ktk issue ya Health care, ku bail out mashirika makubwa, kuondoa msamaha wa kodi kwa matajiri na kadhalika kwa sababu ndivyo siasa zinavyotakiwa ziwe hata kama Republican wanajua fika kwamba sera hizi zitafanya kazi na kwa ufanisi mkubwa kama ilivyokuwa wakati wa Clinton..Wanajua vizuri kwamba Obama kawapiga bao lakini still wanatafuta njia ya kutokea..

Na ndivyo walivyofanya CCM wakijua fika kwamba sera ya Chadema kuhusiana na Elimu na Afya bure wakasema haiwezekani... hakuna ukweli wowote isipokuwa wanapinga hivyo kisiasa ili wajinga wengine waamini kwamba haiwezekani na itakuwa mzigo kwa taifa. Hivi ndivyo siasa za Upinzani zinavyojengwa laa sivyo hatuna sababu ya kuwa na vyama isipokuwa vichwa vya watu...Siasahujengwa na upinzani wa itikadi sio uwezo wa Zitto, Mbowe, JK au Nyerere.

Kama Zitto hawezi kukiwakilisha chama na sera zake badala yake anatumia hisia zake mwenyewe ktk utekelezaji wa sera ambazo sii za chama chake bali chama pinzani, nadhani atakuwa ametoka nje ya siasa na Upinzani. Mimi nafahamu fika hakuna sera hata moja ya CCM au Chadema inapingwa isipokuwa maamuzi ya utekelezaji wa sera hizo ndio sababu kubwa ya upinzani na hata siku moja usitake kutumia akili yako kutafuta majawabu kwani ndio utakuwa mwanzo wa kutafsirika kama ni personal ambition na sii maslahi ya Taifa.

Haiwezekani mkuu wangu Zitto abishane na wananchi wapigakura kuhusiana na maswala mengi hapa JF na wote wampinge yeye pasipo kujiuliza..Haiwezekani watu wote hawa wawe hawampendi Zitto kwa kumkosoa na ashindwe kuelewa kwamba yeye ni mwakilishi wa wananchi na sio mawazo yake yeye..

Hii ni hatari sana kisiasa na mkuu wangu Zitto, jihadhari sana na maamuzi kama haya kwani kesho Tanzania inaweza kuingia vitani tukiwa na makosa kibao lakini kwa sababu sote ni Watanzania inabidi tuingie vitani kutokana na sababu zitakazojengwa na Utawala wetu hata kama sisi ndio wachokozi...Ajifunze sana kutoka CCM jinsi wasivyokubaliana na Chadema kwa kauli zao lakini wakizibeba sera zao pale wanapoona wananchi wamezipokea pasipo hata kuomba samahani wala kusema wametumia sera za Chadema ila hudai ni zao na wao ndio wameifanya kazi hiyo..
 
Kuna haka kauchambuzi ka 'unpredictability/inconsistency' ya Mwalimu katika suala la Katanga, Biafra, Ogaden n.k:

http://allafrica.com/stories/200803280317.html

African unity at what cost?
In love with unity we co-founded the Organization of African Unity (OAU) in 1963. In the spirit of ujamaa we formed the union in 1964. In our quest for collective self-reliance we established the East African Community in 1967.

One can hardly question our commitment to the Pan-African vision of a United States of Africa. How can one question our impressive curriculum vitae which boast a successful liberation of Uganda in 1978? Who can dare question us in 2008 after our soldiers successfully led African Union (AU) forces in Anjouan to enforce Comoros' federation?

We may be too militant in our Pan-Africanism to question our military motives. But history can hardly let us get away without seriously questioning our consistency. It could not even allow our foremost champion of African unity, Mwalimu Julius Nyerere, rest without rethinking Tanzanian nationalism vis-à-vis the cost of African unity.

In his ‘Reflections' two years prior to his death, he gave a confession that even came as a surprise to a leading scholar of Pan-Africanism. Concerning his role at the first OAU summit in 1964, he said: "I was responsible for moving that resolution that Africa must accept the borders which we have inherited from colonialism, accept them as they are."

Nyerere moved that resolution because of what he experienced on the eve and wake of our independence. In 1960 he received a delegation of Maasai elders from Kenya. Led by an American missionary, these elders came to persuade him to let the section of the Maasai in Kenya become a part of our country as soon as we win independence.

Then in 1962 the first President of Nyasalanda, as Malawi was called then, came to him with a big old book with lots of maps to prove that there is no such thing as Mozambique. He even asserted that its "northern part, the Makonde part, is" our part. All this was happening while Mozambicans were initiating armed struggles for independence.

Last but not least, during the inauguration of OAU in Ethiopia the host country was in war with Somalia over the Ogaden. The latter wanted "a whole province of Ethiopia," publicly claiming that it is its part. Incidentally, the former was quietly saying that the whole of Somalia is its part.

The three experiences made Nyerere count the cost of fast tracking African unity and move the resolution to accept artificial borders. He didn't see why two nations should fight to contain a people within their borders. To him the idea of disposing Mozambique was ridiculous. Pragmatically, he also couldn't make sense of how rejecting colonial borders instantly will stop Somalia from wanting Ogaden, Northern Kenya and Djibouti.

Since then Nyerere rarely wavered in his quest for a gradual approach to African unity as opposed to Kwame Nkrumah's push for a revolutionary approach. In 1965 they clashed over Nkrumah's call to establish a union government of Africa. Ultimately, OAU embraced Nyerere's approach that assumed that regional federations will step by step metamorphose into a United States of Africa. The Balkanization of Africa beckoned.


In his 1969 painstaking defense of our stances on secessions, Nyerere noted that Tanzania was particularly "accused of the most blatantly inconsistency because it opposed Katanga and recognized Biafra." His analysis revealed superficial similarities advanced by the then opponents of Biafra. It also revealed crucial similarities in favour of Biafra.

Nyerere noticed that Katanga and Biafra were rich in natural resources that attracted foreign companies. Respective former colonial powers sided with these companies. However, Belgium sided with seceding Katanga against a united Congo while Britain sided with a federated Nigeria against a seceding Biafra.

Only great simplicity or even extreme naivety, Nyerere thus asserted, "could lead anyone to accept that Britain is defending the unity of Nigeria or African unity in general." In as much as Tanzania wanted to see a federated Nigeria as a step toward a united Africa, it was not ready to support a war to keep Biafrans part of Nigeria even against their will.

In other words, Tanzania could not support Katanga because its leader was a stooge of imperial interests that are essentially opposed to African nationalism and Pan-Africanism. But it supported Biafra because Tanzanians could not afford to see a potential great exemplar of African unity become an African imperial power. No liberty no unity.

Arguably, this is the principle we upheld when our soldiers were hailed as liberators by Ugandan masses. One wonder if this is the same principle that was at work when Nyerere sent troops to Zanzibar in the wake of what he referred to as "pollution of the political atmosphere" in 1984. Is this the principle that propelled our soldiers into Anjouan?

Our role in Anjouan is a wake up call to rethink African unity. Indeed AU is shedding its OAU cocooning charter of non-interference in the internal affairs of member state. At last it is starting to assume the same kind of powers that led the UN to be used to justify the ongoing wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. After Anjouan what's next? Zimbabwe?

How are we checking the military powers of Pan-African statism? What kind of African unity are we building? At what cost? In whose terms? At a cost similar to that of around 30,000 Biafrans who lost their lives because they rejected unity? In terms such as those of Tanzanians who need a referendum on the union instead of a bipartisan Zanzibar accord?
 
Nipo hapa Jamvini namsubiri Zitto atoe majibu ya haya Maswali aliyoyauliza:

1.. Why did nyerere support pan africanism and at the same time Biafra?
2.. Why did nyerere oppose south african capital and at the same time allow debeers into our diamond?
Click to expand...

Nimesoma maadiko ya

1. Kiranga na Rugemeleza :: Ni ya kisomi sana kuweza kueleweka - Rugemeleza anasema "nipo hapa Havard"
2. Madela Wa-madilu :: Ni ya mtu aliyekuwa kwenye "system" lakini akilishwa yale tu aliyotakiwa kulishwa
3. Rev Kishoka :: confused with Madela !

Kwahiyo, Kwa heshima na taadhima naomba Zitto Kabwe uje hapa jamvini utoe majibu sahihi ya maswali hayo mawili hapo juu

Asante
 
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