Vile Chuki ya Tanzania kwa Kenya was Institutionalized

Vile Chuki ya Tanzania kwa Kenya was Institutionalized

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By Meshach Yobby (Facebook post)
I think this will be my last post on Tanzania, and why their hatred for us was institutionalised. I'll try to summarise.

Before independence, Nyerere wanted Kenya, Uganda, Tanganyika, Zanzibar, to form the East African Federation. He knew it would be easier to form it before independence and campaigned greatly for it, including to Britain and the U.S. Britain was in support.

However, there were some African countries that opposed it. Nkrumah of Ghana called it the Balkanization of Africa which would see Britain retain control of a large region of Africa.

Contrary to what people believe, the strongest opposition in East Africa came from Obote in Uganda, not Kenya. There were internal pressures from the Kingdom of Buganda, the church, and I don't know who else. Some say that Obote was in Nkrumah's pocket.

Kenyatta did not say much. His only slip of the tongue was during a visit to Kisumu in 1964, when he said that he had used the pretext of a Federation only to get Britain to grant Kenya an earlier independence date. Strike 1: Kenyatta used Nyerere's ambition as a play to get an earlier independence date for Kenya, with no evidence of solid intention of following through.

By the end of 1964, the dream of an East African Federation had died.

In that same 1964, Tanganyika and Zanzibar 'united' to form Tanzania. I say 'united' because the original Articles of the Union signed by Karume of Zanzibar and Nyerere does not exist. And for the Articles of the Union to be valid, it had to be ratified by both the Parliaments of Tanganyika and Zanzibar. Tanganyika did. Zanzibar did not.

If you travel, you will see that Zanzibar is semi-autonomous, and has been the Kisumu of Tanzania, always protesting and being brutalised by security agencies. They have their own parliament and President. And even Tanganyikans will pay import taxes when bringing in stuff from Zanzibar to Dar.

Back to the story.

in 1967, talks were revived. The Treaty for East African Cooperation, which established the East African Community, was signed. Common markets, common customs tariffs, abolishment of trade restrictions, harmonisation of fiscal policies, etc.

Pretty good idea. The countries agreed to measures to promote balanced industrial development. They'd transfer tax on intra-Community trade to protect industries of the less industrially developed members of the Community against those of the more developed.

They established the East African Development Bank with equal contributions from each state. They also formed the East African Railways Corporation, the East African Harbours Corporation, the East African Ports and Telecommunications Corporation, and the East African Airways Corporation.

The highest decision making organ was the East African Authority comprising Obote, Kenyatta and Nyerere. Whatever they decided unanimously was the direction the Community would take.

But Idi Amin ousted Obote in 1971, and he went on a rampage. Nyerere refused to sit on the same table with him. The East African Authority never met again.

Intra-Community trade restrictions were introduced, which led to the collapse of the Common Market.

In 1977, Tanzania accused Kenya of unilaterally dismantling joint facilities, like ports and the East African Railway, and taking over the East African Airways and seizing EAC ships.

But Kenya said that it was setting up its own airline because Tanzania and Uganda refused to pay their share to the airline's headquarters in Nairobi. Kenya was EAA's main creditor, and the other two countries were struggling to pay their share.

But Tanzania was not all innocent. Their socialist ideologies competed with Kenya's capitalism. They got friendly with Kaunda's Zambia and built the TAZARA railway outside of the East African Community framework, using materials from China when materials could, and had previously, been sourced from Kenya. At that time, Kenya cosied up to Ethiopia and Uganda befriended DRC.

From that collapse in 1977 and Kenya retaining most EAC assets, Tanzania has taken an aggressive foreign policy against us. Nyerere's dream died, and he felt betrayed. Strike 2: Each EAC country retained assets present in their countries at the time of collapse, and Kenya had plenty that it did not share. Inter-governmental conflicts became transferred to the citizens. So whether you are the most sinless person, as long as you are Kenyan, you will be met with mistrust.

Tanzania's association with southern Africa's liberation movements has made them more receptive to SADC than EAC, despite EAC headquarters being in Arusha. They did not need a visa to SA, Kenya did. Flights to SA are cheaper from Tanzania. Their national anthem is basically a translation of Nkosi Sikelel IAfrica, which is largely shared by South Africa, Tanzania, and Zambia. It was also the national anthem of Namibia and Zimbabwe at some point after Independence.

We share a language, but I doubt we will become a full union in my lifetime.

P.S. I have to say that I have worked in Uganda and Rwanda. I got no problems at all entering and working there, even with a lot of equipment. I came in with a Tanzanian team last year, with equipment, and it was smooth entry and exit for them.

But in Tanzania, EAC members will be asked to state their business, and as long as it is not tourism, you will be charged USD100 for a single-entry business pass. EVEN FOR A MEETING/CONFERENCE.

Chamoto
Geza Ulole
Discuss your take..,
 
By Meshach Yobby
I have always said for years that Kenyans are much nicer than Tanzanians. Tanzanian culture just has samahani and naomba and pole and polite language, but that is just the speaking culture. Kenyans just seem more arrogant because we are more direct.

I have also told Tanzanian colleagues that Kenyans feel more comfortable in Uganda than Tanzania. Of course, this is a generalisation. Of course, there are pretty good Tanzanian peeps I know.

But you see the attitude their MPs have towards us? You heard what they said? That is the general sentiment of the average Tanzanian on the street. That is how they feel about us. I have experienced it in person, this superiority, this need to be better than us, this ever looming threat of being set up or profiled. Generally, they loathe us. Especially those who have never been to Kenya.

See how tribalism was planted and enhanced by our politicians so much that even marriage between certain tribes was frowned upon? That is what their politicians did to them after the collapse of the first EAC. Hawatupendi.


Hapa I totally agree with the views of this author., Chamoto ndio mlivyo on average.
 
I was expecting a narration showing how organic hatred from the populace was institutionalized.

I only found a history of how high politics fostered hatred.

This hatred, if there is any indeed, was institutional to begin with.

I am inclined to believe that the common people of East Africa have no issues

Save for a misguided Kenyan Gen Z stereotyping Tanzanians. Even for this group, they mostly disparage the political leadership and not so much the citizenry.

Am I overly optimistic in this thinking?
 
I was expecting a narration showing how irganic hatred from the populace was institutionalized.

I only found a history of how high politics fostered hatred.

This hatred, if there is any indeed, was institutional to begin with.

I am inclined to believe that the common people of East Africa have no issues

Save for a misguided Kenyan Gen Z stereotyping Tanzanians. Even for this group, they mostly disparage the political leadership and not so much the citizenry.

Am I overly optimistic in this thinking?
The Gen Z's actions are mere reaction I think, cause and effect. The root cause is the above discussion, and the actions of Tanzanian regime for a long time, this time CCM encountered a generation in Kenya that can call them out., and anyone else, however let's not lose focus of the root cause.
 
Nitamwamini yoyote ila sio nyang'au
Msilete story za miaka 19.
Ninyi mpaka Sasa hamuaminiki.

Mfano:Kulikuwa na mazungumzo ya pamoja kati ya east Africa na Marekani/Uingereza kuhusu biashara kipengele hasa Cha Kodi na Tarrifs na Jumuiya haikukubali.

Kilichotokea Kenya mkakubaliana nao na Uingereza Ili bidhaa zao zisitozwe Kodi na zenu kwenda kwao, huku mkipush east Africa common market ambayo Tanzania tulipinga.

Kama sio usaliti ni nini?
 
The Gen Z's actions are mere reaction I think, cause and effect. The root cause is the above discussion, and the actions of Tanzanian regime for a long time, this time CCM encountered a generation in Kenya that can call them out., and anyone else, however let's not lose focus of the root cause.
So, if at all your assesment is correct, and there is hatred, this hatred was institutional to begin with.

It wasn't an organic hatred from the people that was institutionalized.

Reading the heading, one feels there was organic hatred between the people that was institutionalized upwards.

Reading the original post, one finds out that there was no such organic hatred, it was all high politics and therefore institutional to begin with.

Perhaps the thread should have been about how institutional hatred is localized and domesticated to the populace, not how this hatred is institutionalized.
 
By Meshach Yobby (Facebook post)
I think this will be my last post on Tanzania, and why their hatred for us was institutionalised. I'll try to summarise.

Before independence, Nyerere wanted Kenya, Uganda, Tanganyika, Zanzibar, to form the East African Federation. He knew it would be easier to form it before independence and campaigned greatly for it, including to Britain and the U.S. Britain was in support.

However, there were some African countries that opposed it. Nkrumah of Ghana called it the Balkanization of Africa which would see Britain retain control of a large region of Africa.

Contrary to what people believe, the strongest opposition in East Africa came from Obote in Uganda, not Kenya. There were internal pressures from the Kingdom of Buganda, the church, and I don't know who else. Some say that Obote was in Nkrumah's pocket.

Kenyatta did not say much. His only slip of the tongue was during a visit to Kisumu in 1964, when he said that he had used the pretext of a Federation only to get Britain to grant Kenya an earlier independence date. Strike 1: Kenyatta used Nyerere's ambition as a play to get an earlier independence date for Kenya, with no evidence of solid intention of following through.

By the end of 1964, the dream of an East African Federation had died.

In that same 1964, Tanganyika and Zanzibar 'united' to form Tanzania. I say 'united' because the original Articles of the Union signed by Karume of Zanzibar and Nyerere does not exist. And for the Articles of the Union to be valid, it had to be ratified by both the Parliaments of Tanganyika and Zanzibar. Tanganyika did. Zanzibar did not.

If you travel, you will see that Zanzibar is semi-autonomous, and has been the Kisumu of Tanzania, always protesting and being brutalised by security agencies. They have their own parliament and President. And even Tanganyikans will pay import taxes when bringing in stuff from Zanzibar to Dar.

Back to the story.

in 1967, talks were revived. The Treaty for East African Cooperation, which established the East African Community, was signed. Common markets, common customs tariffs, abolishment of trade restrictions, harmonisation of fiscal policies, etc.

Pretty good idea. The countries agreed to measures to promote balanced industrial development. They'd transfer tax on intra-Community trade to protect industries of the less industrially developed members of the Community against those of the more developed.

They established the East African Development Bank with equal contributions from each state. They also formed the East African Railways Corporation, the East African Harbours Corporation, the East African Ports and Telecommunications Corporation, and the East African Airways Corporation.

The highest decision making organ was the East African Authority comprising Obote, Kenyatta and Nyerere. Whatever they decided unanimously was the direction the Community would take.

But Idi Amin ousted Obote in 1971, and he went on a rampage. Nyerere refused to sit on the same table with him. The East African Authority never met again.

Intra-Community trade restrictions were introduced, which led to the collapse of the Common Market.

In 1977, Tanzania accused Kenya of unilaterally dismantling joint facilities, like ports and the East African Railway, and taking over the East African Airways and seizing EAC ships.

But Kenya said that it was setting up its own airline because Tanzania and Uganda refused to pay their share to the airline's headquarters in Nairobi. Kenya was EAA's main creditor, and the other two countries were struggling to pay their share.

But Tanzania was not all innocent. Their socialist ideologies competed with Kenya's capitalism. They got friendly with Kaunda's Zambia and built the TAZARA railway outside of the East African Community framework, using materials from China when materials could, and had previously, been sourced from Kenya. At that time, Kenya cosied up to Ethiopia and Uganda befriended DRC.

From that collapse in 1977 and Kenya retaining most EAC assets, Tanzania has taken an aggressive foreign policy against us. Nyerere's dream died, and he felt betrayed. Strike 2: Each EAC country retained assets present in their countries at the time of collapse, and Kenya had plenty that it did not share. Inter-governmental conflicts became transferred to the citizens. So whether you are the most sinless person, as long as you are Kenyan, you will be met with mistrust.

Tanzania's association with southern Africa's liberation movements has made them more receptive to SADC than EAC, despite EAC headquarters being in Arusha. They did not need a visa to SA, Kenya did. Flights to SA are cheaper from Tanzania. Their national anthem is basically a translation of Nkosi Sikelel IAfrica, which is largely shared by South Africa, Tanzania, and Zambia. It was also the national anthem of Namibia and Zimbabwe at some point after Independence.

We share a language, but I doubt we will become a full union in my lifetime.

P.S. I have to say that I have worked in Uganda and Rwanda. I got no problems at all entering and working there, even with a lot of equipment. I came in with a Tanzanian team last year, with equipment, and it was smooth entry and exit for them.

But in Tanzania, EAC members will be asked to state their business, and as long as it is not tourism, you will be charged USD100 for a single-entry business pass. EVEN FOR A MEETING/CONFERENCE.

Chamoto
Geza Ulole
Discuss your take..,
This narration is wrong footed. Since the days of the defunct community, there were serious issues betwen the highest political echelon in Kenya and Tanzania.
It's goes without saying that, through trickery, Kenya benefited the most from the assets of the erstwhile communituy- far beyond what they contributed.
Additionally, Kenya has been sabotaging Tanzanian economy times without number. All these events oscillate in the minds of the ordinary citizens. The matter is worsened by the attitude of most Kenyans who wrongly think they are far better compared to Tanzanians. All these paint Kenyans as enemies of the state.
 
Hey man, I hear you — and I respect the effort you put into breaking down the history. But honestly, most Tanzanians don’t hate Kenyans. That narrative just doesn’t hold. The tension you’re talking about was mostly political, between governments, not people.

Yeah, our government isn’t perfect — we call them out too. But don’t confuse government bureaucracy or bad policy with national hatred. That USD 100 fee? It sucks, but Kenya has its own red tape too, especially for fellow East Africans trying to work or do business.

At the end of the day, we share a lot — culture, language, and dreams for this region. So let’s not let old political drama cloud that. We’re better off building bridges than keeping score.
 
By Meshach Yobby
I have always said for years that Kenyans are much nicer than Tanzanians. Tanzanian culture just has samahani and naomba and pole and polite language, but that is just the speaking culture. Kenyans just seem more arrogant because we are more direct.

I have also told Tanzanian colleagues that Kenyans feel more comfortable in Uganda than Tanzania. Of course, this is a generalisation. Of course, there are pretty good Tanzanian peeps I know.

But you see the attitude their MPs have towards us? You heard what they said? That is the general sentiment of the average Tanzanian on the street. That is how they feel about us. I have experienced it in person, this superiority, this need to be better than us, this ever looming threat of being set up or profiled. Generally, they loathe us. Especially those who have never been to Kenya.

See how tribalism was planted and enhanced by our politicians so much that even marriage between certain tribes was frowned upon? That is what their politicians did to them after the collapse of the first EAC. Hawatupendi.


Hapa I totally agree with the views of this author., Chamoto ndio mlivyo on average.
Kenyans are THIEVES, and they think we WE FORGOT when they stole the EAC planes to start their Kenya Airways.

Kenya can bully Uganda, Rwanda but Tanzania?

It will never happen.

Kenyans cheering after stealing EAC planes and branding them Kenya Airways.

 
Kenyans are THIEVES, and they think we WE FORGOT when they stole the EAC planes to start their Kenya Airways.

Kenya can bully Uganda, Rwanda but Tanzania?

It will never happen.

Kenyans cherring after stealing EAC planes and branding them Kenya Airways.

View attachment 3357130

Duh! Hatari sana
 
Kenyans are THIEVES, and they think we WE FORGOT when they stole the EAC planes to start their Kenya Airways.

Kenya can bully Uganda, Rwanda but Tanzania?

It will never happen.

Kenyans cherring after stealing EAC planes and branding them Kenya Airways.

View attachment 3357130
Kenya owned 67.7% of the airline, Tanzania owned only 9.7%. How is Kenya taking its fair sharing theft?
 
Any Credible source?
Soma hapa

Ziko Kila mahali bro. Stop being lazy. You are normally very good at shouting how the white man owns this % in a Kenyan company but ikija kwa hii ya EAA mnajifanya hamjui kitu. Ndio maana huwa nawaambia wengi wenu history yenu ni ya wanasiasa.



And this explains the real reason why it broke up. Forget story za wanasiasa wenu

 
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