Tanzania has most trade barriers in EAC- report!!!

[Geza Ulole]

i told you that you are very reckless with data when it comes to Kenya. You have 58 weigh bridges between Dar and Rusumo and not 30.....way too many for 1200 km. Kenyas distance to kigali is 1470km and thats 36 WBGS. Link coming up

what makes u think a report of March 2011 stands to tell the truth today compared to a 2012 report by an institution hired by EAC ! And moreover the report clearly explains how tanzania traffic police has resorted into using blackberry phones to reduce the number of road blocks! U simply show ur illiteracy here..! And pls JF forum is a very respected platform (intellectually) don't compare to those biased forums like Kenyamoja, Mashada, Luo, Kikuyu forums! read the rules of this forums!

 

[livefire]

what makes u think a report of March 2011 stands to tell the truth today compared to a 2012 report by an institution hired by EAC ! And moreover the report clearly explains how tanzania traffic police has resorted into using blackberry phones to reduce the number of road blocks! U simply show ur illiteracy here..! And pls JF forum is a very respected platform (intellectually) don't compare to those biased forums like Kenyamoja, Mashada, Luo, Kikuyu forums! read the rules of this forums!

cut the nonsense...heres a 31st March 2012 link and its from your authorities, not any report. (what do you know about rules anyway?) checkmate!!!
Mr Issa noted that already ICF has invested in the technological inspection of tracks leading to reduction of checkpoints between Dar es Salaam and Rusumo, the border area between Tanzania and Rwanda from 58 to 15
http://allafrica.com/stories/201204010006.html

 

[FJM]

cut the nonsense...heres a 2012 link. (what do you know about rules?) checkmate!!!
Mr Issa noted that already ICF has invested in the technological inspection of tracks leading to reduction of checkpoints between Dar es Salaam and Rusumo, the border area between Tanzania and Rwanda from 58 to 15
allAfrica.com: Tanzania: TRA Sharpens Its Cargo Tracking Teeth

Kwa hiyo EAC got it wrong?

 

[livefire]

Kwa hiyo EAC got it wrong?

if this is from your officials am afraid yes....he wanted data, i gave it to him...from govt officials to be precise. Isnt dat right?

 

[Geza Ulole]

if this is from your officials am afraid yes....he wanted data, i gave it to him...from govt officials to be precise. Isnt dat right?

well the credibility of dailynews on that report can be questionable that's why u see intellectuals here argue! If EAC contracted an independent organ to do a survey and come up with a report then i simply can't see that number by Dailynews to be correct! And if Nationmedia with all sort of prejudice chose to skip the checkpoint numbers that means there r 30! I can assure u out of simple logic...

 

[livefire]

well the credibility of dailynews on that articlecan be questionable that's why u see intellectuals here argue! If EAC contracted an independent organ to do a survey and come up with a report then i simply can't see that number by Dailynews to be correct! And if Nationmedia with all sort of prejudice chose to skip the checkpoint numbers that means there 30! I can assure u out of simple logic...

thank you for arguing like a civil being, 'intellect'. However, this comments come from a senior Tz official and they hold more water to an investor. I am not disputing this report but it does not necessarily mean it was outsourced by EAC patner states to determine number of barriers. It may lack institutional support in establishing the actual facts. Do you see loop holes there? Its just an independent report by a concerned party, (not known for such work). i dont rem the firms name anyway. All the same, the number of road blocks whether 30 or 58 are too many to be within one state. Kenya hosts 27 weigh bridges-uganda 9 and that is for verification purposes across the two states. I think the TRA guy/official when he said he wants to reduce the spots from 58-15 he had adequate reasons to say so.....a daily cant just make up stories such as this. MERITS: youl soon have 15 road blocks making you more competitive.

 

[moyo]

I think sometimes Kenyans are very unfair to Tanzanians,we expect too much from them!!! what do Tanzanians know about cross border trade!?..this is a country which neighbors every EAC Country plus DRC,Malawi Zambia and Mozambique....! Being a member of two most active trading blocks in Africa,EAC and SADC presents her with numerous opportunities to trade with each of her neighbor and other countries within SADC!
But all this opportunities are wasted!! and all Tanzanians are comfortable with this! any positive critism that is meant to arouse them from their slumber they confuse it with arrogance!..now the trade barriers affect her negatively and they still consider this as a sign of patriotism and a way of "teaching us a lesson" when the real losers are Tanzanians.
What is a purpose of any govt anyway? is it not to raise money!? how can u raise money without trade and investments!?..no wonder in SADC Tanzanians are regarded as the most vulnerable and intellectually incapable of bringing any meaningful change to SADC,the only value they add to it is to produce raw materials and being number one consumer of products form other SADC countries.
It a high time Kenyans stopped arguing with this people since we are not in the same class and still we are not benefiting anything from them,their arguments are just an expression of their intellectual bankruptcy that has ravaged all sectors and classes of the Tanzanian society and there is nothing we can do to help them since they feel ok in their current state.
We should focus our efforts to people who believe in themselves and are ready to take the bull by its horns! The Rwandese!..Kenya and Rwanda have given us the very definition of integration..no work permits and passports..and they are very glad to welcome any investor to their country and it only takes a maximum of two days for you to have your certificate and ready to do business!! and Tanzania!?..you must bribe every official in order for your papers to be processed and this is, if you are lucky to have escaped the greedy mouths of immigration officials and poorly educated policemen...its so saddening and i wont blame them since they have chosen this is the best way they want to build their country..and please the only thing Tanzanians can do is to spare us their stupidity, its has no place in the "NEW EAC"(read Ethiopia and Southern Sudan)..if they cant abide by the rules they should withdraw their membership from EAC, who will need them anyway!? Kwani how did Kenyans invest in TZ in pre-EAC era?
We need people with ideas to take us forward not backwards.and Rwandese,Ugandans,Burundians,Southern sudaneses and Ethiopians are proving to be reliable partners....Tanzania should be kept away from any meaningful discussion that is meant to move this forward,they are enemies of development,no wonder they are practitioners of witchcraft.We should be careful,stupidity is contagious!

 

[Kabaridi]

Mzalendo452,

Hii ndiyo aina ya debate nilitarijia baina ya wadau wa nchi hizi mbili. Kwanza kujadili kwa kuheshimiana na pili kutambua historical nature ya mambo yaliyo mezani. Jambo moja ambalo mimi ninatofautiana na wewe ni pale unaposema kuwa wanohitaji elimu ya kutambua kuishi vizuri na jirani ni watu wapumbavu - watu ambao hawajapata 'formal education'. Kwa hakika huhitaji kupata PhD ya chemistry au electonics ili kujua namna ya kuishi na jirani.

Kwa mfano, week iliyopita hapa London, Saatchi na mke wake Nigella Lawson wameuza flat yao waliyokuwa wanaishi hapo zamani. Na sababu kubwa iliyowafanya wakahama toka kwenye hiyo flat ni mzozo na jirani zao. Saatchi sio mpumbavu, yeye na kaka yake ndio walianzisha Saatchi & Saatchi, pia mke wake (Nigella) sio mpumbavu, ameenda shule, na ni mtoto wa former chancellor of Exchequer Lord Lawson. Hivyo mgogoro kati ya majirani unaweza kutokea regardless watu hao wamesoma au la.

Tukirukudi hapa kwetu, nakubaliana kabisa na Kibona kwamba friction kati ya Kenya na Tanzania ni historical. Na hata leo hii ukifanya survey Kenya, statistically, watu wengi watasema watanzania ni 'wapumbavu' na nchi ni backward. Vivyo hivyo ukifanya survey Tanzania, statistically, watu wengi watakuambia wakenya ni manyang'au, wabinafsi na walafi wa pesa. Hizi ni feelings kati wa nchi hizi mbili, na zimedumu kwa muda mrefu. Na katika mazingira haya ni mwendawazimu tu ndiyo anaamini kuwa unaweza ku-fast track muungano (hata wa kuchota maji ya kunywesha mbuzi)!

Tanzania na Kenya ni nchi mbili tofauti kabisa na zimejengwa kwenye misingi tofauti. Tangu uhuru Kenya ime-emabrace capitalism, huku Tanzania wakiegemea african socialism. Hii ndiyo misingi inayofuma (suka) 'fabric' ya society kwa nchi hizi mbili. And unless kunakuwepo na juhudi za maksudi ili watu wa nchi hizi mbili wafahamiane EAC itakuwa zigzag. Tayari tuna skeleton in our cupboard, East Africa Community ya miaka ya 1970 ilikufa kwa sababu hizi hizi ambazo zinatuzonga sasa. Na watanzania dakika hii wangeulizwa wanataka nini EAC, I am almost certain wengi watasema tugawane mbao (kama zipo) kila mtu aende zake. People hate EAC with a passion. Na wanaposikia kelele mara za ardhi, free movement of labour, trade etc ndio wanazidi kupatwa na nyongo. tuachie hapo.

Hapo kwenye blue: Dawa ya kupambana na rushwa, ufisadi etc si kubalisha mtu mmoja mmoja tu. You need to do more than that. Ni lazime kuwepo na institutional framework strong enough ili kukabiliana na viongozi wabovu. Ndio maana tunaandaa katiba mpya. Na harakati za kudai katiba mpya zimedumu kwa miaka aprox 20 sasa (tangu 1992), better late than never. Hivyo tunajua tatizo la msingi ni lipi na kama jamii we are now doing something about it. Ninaamini tatizo la rushwa na ufisadi haliko tu Tanzania, Kenya nako kuna a catalogue iliyosheni kama x'mas tree. Na huko nyuma ilikuwa ni shida kupambana na ufisadi kwa sababu 'institutional framework' ililalia upande wa wakubwa, lakini baada ya kupata katiba mpya tunaona ile nguvu ya watawala kufunika mambo inapungua na wananchi wanakuwa na sauti stahiki kwenye ulingo wa utwala.

Ninachotaka kusema hapa, kama nchi, Tanzania tuna matatizo yetu and we are addressing them in our own way. Mahusiano mazuri kati nchi jirani kwenye nyanja mbalimbali i.e biashara, siasa ni jambo la kheri lakini kwa sasa EAC sio priority kwa watanzania wengi, EAC si mama wala baba wa watanzania. La msingi ni kusafisha nyumba na kuhakikisha msingi uko imara, and kama umesoma kwenye sub-forums hapa jamvini utaona kelele nyingi kati ya CHADEMA na CCM. EAC ni nyongeza.

Hivyo basi, kama nchi nyingine zinakwazwa na Tanzania kwa namna yoyote ile, basi ni vema wakajipanga upya na kuendelea bila Tanzania. But for nown, we are very busy sorting out our fundementals. Kelele hazitasaidia kitu zaidi ya kutibua nyongo za watu.

Kuna mengi ya muhimu ambao umegusia Sana sana changamoto za CCM na Chadema, na pia mikakati za kuchora katiba mpya ambazo nitazirejelea lakini kwanza, niruhusu nijieleze kamili nilichomaanisha kwa wana Afrika mashariki na aina ya elimu ilivyoletwa na kibona. Elimu niliyomaanisha ni civic education na sio biologia au kuhitimu madegree na madiploma kutoka kwenye vyuo vikuu. KITU kubwa kinacho rudisha nchi nyuma Afrika ni mifumo ya siasa ya chama moja ambapo utakuta viongozi ni wale wale, wanakua recycled mara-kwa-mara wasilete maendeleo. Nadhani Tanzania itaona mwangaza baada ya kupata kiongozi anayesukuma kusajilishwa kwa mfumo wa vyama vingi katika katiba.

Ugumu tunaoona katika EAC na tanzania kuweka vizingiti ni jambo ambalo linatokana na hili tatizo. Ikiwa wanaoingia serikalini kupitia vyama ni wale wale miaka nenda miaka rudi, na wakiondoka wanatoka wakiwa hawajaleta mageuzi bora katika jamii na akirudi katika ulingo anafikiria kueneza kipande chake cha keki. Je! unatarajia kweli tutasonga kutoka hizi fikra. Tayari umeniambia ruwaza ya kuchora katiba mpya ilianza mwaka wa 1992, na mpaka sasa mumesalia kubaki munaimba tu!

Misingi yenu mukitaka iwe imara, ni lazima viongozi waonyeshe msukumo wa kutaka kuleta mageuzi, la sivyo wananchi watakuwa wanafanyiwa mzaha na wanasiasa. Tatizo la rushwa si rahisi kuukomesha kwasababu hata mtu maskini anaweza pokea rushwa hivyo tutakuwa tunajidanganya tunaeza maliza mambo ya rushwa. Kenya imetoka mbali hasa enzi ya siku za chama moja ambapo tulizingatia mdororo wa uchumi na ukabila zaidi licha ya kuwa na amani miaka hiyo yote. Wanaoleta haya mapendekezo za kuondolewa kwa vizingiti TZ si wakenya na kuna wakati serikali ya Tanzania inafaa kuzingatia maswala ya wananchi na maisha yao ya siku za usoni.

 

[FJM]

FJM asanta lakini lets analyse this without digging into hate manouvres. the guardian journalist is based where? Certainly not in africa and not Tz. i dislike/hate ''his'' campaign in tainting Kenya as having an agenda which we dont. Otherwise the forum is great n thanks for moderating the air.

@livefire, no no no it is hte he guardian in Tanzania owned by IPPMEDIA and not the Guardian - UK.

 

[FJM]

Kuna mengi ya muhimu ambao umegusia Sana sana changamoto za CCM na Chadema, na pia mikakati za kuchora katiba mpya ambazo nitazirejelea lakini kwanza, niruhusu nijieleze kamili nilichomaanisha kwa wana Afrika mashariki na aina ya elimu ilivyoletwa na kibona. Elimu niliyomaanisha ni civic education na sio biologia au kuhitimu madegree na madiploma kutoka kwenye vyuo vikuu. KITU kubwa kinacho rudisha nchi nyuma Afrika ni mifumo ya siasa ya chama moja ambapo utakuta viongozi ni wale wale, wanakua recycled mara-kwa-mara wasilete maendeleo. Nadhani Tanzania itaona mwangaza baada ya kupata kiongozi anayesukuma kusajilishwa kwa mfumo wa vyama vingi katika katiba.

Ugumu tunaoona katika EAC na tanzania kuweka vizingiti ni jambo ambalo linatokana na hili tatizo. Ikiwa wanaoingia serikalini kupitia vyama ni wale wale miaka nenda miaka rudi, na wakiondoka wanatoka wakiwa hawajaleta mageuzi bora katika jamii na akirudi katika ulingo anafikiria kueneza kipande chake cha keki. Je! unatarajia kweli tutasonga kutoka hizi fikra. Tayari umeniambia ruwaza ya kuchora katiba mpya ilianza mwaka wa 1992, na mpaka sasa mumesalia kubaki munaimba tu!

Misingi yenu mukitaka iwe imara, ni lazima viongozi waonyeshe msukumo wa kutaka kuleta mageuzi, la sivyo wananchi watakuwa wanafanyiwa mzaha na wanasiasa. Tatizo la rushwa si rahisi kuukomesha kwasababu hata mtu maskini anaweza pokea rushwa hivyo tutakuwa tunajidanganya tunaeza maliza mambo ya rushwa. Kenya imetoka mbali hasa enzi ya siku za chama moja ambapo tulizingatia mdororo wa uchumi na ukabila zaidi licha ya kuwa na amani miaka hiyo yote. Wanaoleta haya mapendekezo za kuondolewa kwa vizingiti TZ si wakenya na kuna wakati serikali ya Tanzania inafaa kuzingatia maswala ya wananchi na maisha yao ya siku za usoni.

I am with you: on the red: Pamoja na ubovu wake katiba ya Tanzania kwa sasa inaruhusu vyama vingi tngu 1995 na tayari kuna zaidi ya vyama 20 vilivyosajiliwa with the biggest being CCM, CHADEMA & CUF. Katiba iliyopo imekuwa inafanyiwa ammendments mara kwa mara, but still inampa madaraka makubwa sana kwa ofisi moja - Presidency. Exactly the same problem lilikuwa Kenya. I am sure kelele za katiba mpya zilidumu kwa kitambo huko Kenya but you now have one.

Na tatizo la katiba ni kwa nchi nyingi za Afrika kwambwa katiba zilizopo ni zile zilizoandikwa mara baada ya uhuru na hata kama mabadiliko yamefanywa bado ofisi moja inakuwa na nguvu sana. Lakini sasa watu -hasa 'dotcom generation' wanataka kuandika katiba inayofaa kwa mazingira ya sasa.

 

[JokaKuu]

I think sometimes Kenyans are very unfair to Tanzanians,we expect too much from them!!! what do Tanzanians know about cross border trade!?..this is a country which neighbors every EAC Country plus DRC,Malawi Zambia and Mozambique....! Being a member of two most active trading blocks in Africa,EAC and SADC presents her with numerous opportunities to trade with each of her neighbor and other countries within SADC!
But all this opportunities are wasted!! and all Tanzanians are comfortable with this! any positive critism that is meant to arouse them from their slumber they confuse it with arrogance!..now the trade barriers affect her negatively and they still consider this as a sign of patriotism and a way of "teaching us a lesson" when the real losers are Tanzanians.
What is a purpose of any govt anyway? is it not to raise money!? how can u raise money without trade and investments!?..no wonder in SADC Tanzanians are regarded as the most vulnerable and intellectually incapable of bringing any meaningful change to SADC,the only value they add to it is to produce raw materials and being number one consumer of products form other SADC countries.
It a high time Kenyans stopped arguing with this people since we are not in the same class and still we are not benefiting anything from them,their arguments are just an expression of their intellectual bankruptcy that has ravaged all sectors and classes of the Tanzanian society and there is nothing we can do to help them since they feel ok in their current state.
We should focus our efforts to people who believe in themselves and are ready to take the bull by its horns! The Rwandese!..Kenya and Rwanda have given us the very definition of integration..no work permits and passports..and they are very glad to welcome any investor to their country and it only takes a maximum of two days for you to have your certificate and ready to do business!! and Tanzania!?..you must bribe every official in order for your papers to be processed and this is, if you are lucky to have escaped the greedy mouths of immigration officials and poorly educated policemen...its so saddening and i wont blame them since they have chosen this is the best way they want to build their country..and please the only thing Tanzanians can do is to spare us their stupidity, its has no place in the "NEW EAC"(read Ethiopia and Southern Sudan)..if they cant abide by the rules they should withdraw their membership from EAC, who will need them anyway!? Kwani how did Kenyans invest in TZ in pre-EAC era?
We need people with ideas to take us forward not backwards.and Rwandese,Ugandans,Burundians,Southern sudaneses and Ethiopians are proving to be reliable partners....Tanzania should be kept away from any meaningful discussion that is meant to move this forward,they are enemies of development,no wonder they are practitioners of witchcraft.We should be careful,stupidity is contagious!

Moyo,

..but Kenya is the second biggest foreign investor in Tanzania after Britain.

..if u think Rwanda is more important to Kenya than Tanzania tell us how much Kenyan investments r in Rwanda compared to Tanzania.

..Rwanda does not share a border with Kenya, while Tanzania does. Rwanda has a population of about 1 mil, while Tanzania has 35+ mil.

..I think u r being dishonest when u dismiss Tanzania and her importance to the EAC, because facts on the ground do not support your claims.

..Umeuliza swali zuri sana: How did Kenya invest in Tanzania pre-EAC?? Let me add: how is Kenya currently investing in Tanzania?

..U have correctly stated that Tanzania is the leading producer of raw materials in SADC, and the number one consumer of products from other SADC countries. I think the same can be said btn Tanzania and Kenya. Now, where does the nonsense that Tanzania does not trade with Kenya, or any other east african country, come from??

..Moyo, u probably just dont want to follow procedures, lakini kuna sheria zinazoruhusu foreigners kupata ardhi Tanzania. There r also provisions on how to bring in foreign workers to Tanzania. Inawezekana hau-qualify hence ur complains.

..U have branded Tanzanians as stupid, enemies of development, and practitioners of witchcraft etc etc. I don't know if u have ever considered how ppl on the receiving end of ur msg would feel. If that doesnt concern u, then dont complain when folks equate that to arrogance.

NB:

Kenya and the rest have to understand us on the following points:

..Tanzania kuna tatizo la unemployment, kwa hiyo serikali lazima iweke-restriction ktk suala la ajira.

..The doors r still open to highly qualified Kenyans,Rwandese,Ugandans, to come and work in Tanzania.

..Ardhi and it access is a stabilizing factor ukizingatia hali ya uchumi wa Tanzania and tatizo la un-employement.

..Matatizo ya ardhi ya Kenya,Rwanda,..yasihamishiwe huku Tanzania. Sisi tuna matatizo mengi zaidi ya ku-deal nayo.

..Natural resources za Tanzania ziwafaidishe wa-Tanzania kwanza, majirani wanaweza kukaribishwa but it has to be on out terms.

..The status quo of Tanzania being the producer of raw material and the biggest consumer of finished products in EA must end. We must make sure we do everything in our power to reverse that trend.

 

[Kibona]

@Kibona

Shukrani kwa kujitokeza lakini umewasili na hisia kali raund hii! Nakubali Wakenya wanafaa elimu ya kujua kuishi vyema na wengine. Lakini wacha niseme hivi, wanaodai kufunzwa ni wale wapumbavu/(ignorant bila masomo). Utakuta ni asilimia chache tu ya waKE wanafanya biashara au wenye mali hawana elimu. Lakini wale walio na elimu ni asilimia kubwa. Kimsimgi ugumu tunaoona zimechangiwa sana na yaliotokea katika historia sana sana punde tu Afrika mashariki na nchi zake zilipopata Uhuru wa kujitawala.

Elimu inafaa ipewe wakenya na hata Watz kwa sababu tayari tumeshuhudia kizazi kikipita, na hivi watz wa sasa pia wanahitaji hayo mafunzo ya kuwa na staha na baadhi ya wengine. Mara nyingi huwa nasema na ninarudia, hamutasafiri maili nyingi kutafuta soka ya bidhaa zenu, na nchi za East Africa ndio tegemeo la kwanza mutafikiria kuuza na kununua bidhaa. Unaposema munajifahamu nyie watanzania kwamba muna rushwa na uongozi mbovu, si ni nyie munaowapigia kura hawa viongozi. Tayari unakiri pamoja na uhuru munao, hamuwezi jinusuru kutokana na kuwaingiza viongozi wafisadi na kulingana na post yako una matumaini kwamba munajielewa na mutaipiku kenya kiuchumi.

Kuna ripoti za utenda kazi mbaya katika bandari zenu na kawaida pia KE kuna hizi ripoti. Wakati huu sio wakati wakukaza shingo, bali ni wakati wa kila mmoja aangalie njia za kupunguza rushwa, na vizingiti, na siasa mbaya kwake. Usishangae Rwanda hapa jirani Uganda na Burundi wakipiga hatua katika EAC. Kwa sasa kuna ripoti hata baada ya kuondolewa kwa vizingiti baada ya mkutano wa waakilishi wa EAC, bado serikali inazuia watu na malori yao kuwatoleza dola 200, la sivyo paspoti zinachukuliwa na maafisa wa polisi kwa madai ya kuwa nchini humo bila paspoti. A very bad system ya "ugavi wa mamlaka" ambao hauheshimu baadhi ya viongozi na mwito wao.

Mradi tu tungeendeleza kile Mkapa na M7 walianzisha mwaka 2001, tungekuwa tunafungua kurasa mpya katika kuboreshwa kwa sekta za uuzaji, ununuzi, na usafirishaji wa bidhaa ndani ya Jumuiya. Lakini ndio vituko tunavyo hapa Afrika siasa za ubinafsi zinazuia maendeleo bila kujua kilicho na mwanzo hakikiosi kuwa na mwisho.

Mzalendo samahani kama nimeeleza kwa hisia kali, lakini nakubaliana na wewe kitu kimoja kuwa sote tuna matatizo ya msingi kama vile uongozi mbovu, ufisadi na rushwa. Hivyo naona pana haja ya kila taifa kuhangaikia kutatua matatizo hayo. Sioni umuhimu wa media za kikenya kufanya juhudi ya kulalamikia mtazamo wa Tz kuelekea EAC maana kenya ina maslahi yake na Tz inayo maslahi yake, sasa inapotokea tunaenda tofauti hamna haja kulalamika.
Kwa mfano baadhi ya watu wanaongea juujuu tu kuwa Tz imesaini mikataba ya EAC lakini ktk sehemu zote ambazo wakenya wanalalamika juu ya Tz sijaona kama kuna sehemu TZ imevunja mkataba. Watu wanachanganya lengo la EAC na mikataba ktk EAC. Ni lengo la EAC kuhakikisha inakuza biashara miongoni mwa wanachama kwa kuruhusu free movement of people and capital lakini Tz iliweka wazi kuwa haiko tayari kuruhusu free movement of people haraka na ndio sababu Tz ilikataa kuondoa matumizi ya Passport.
Aidha kuhusu kama hata watz wanatakiwa kupata elimu ya staha, nadhani fanya research miongoni mwa waTz na wakenya halafu utagundua nani anatakiwa kupewa elimu ya staha.

 

[FJM]

... if they cant abide by the rules they should withdraw their membership from EAC, who will need them anyway!?
practitioners of witchcraft.We should be careful,stupidity is contagious!

What's stopping you from removing these "practitioners of witchcraft" off the list?

 

[Kibona]

Mzalendo452,

Hii ndiyo aina ya debate nilitarijia baina ya wadau wa nchi hizi mbili. Kwanza kujadili kwa kuheshimiana na pili kutambua historical nature ya mambo yaliyo mezani. Jambo moja ambalo mimi ninatofautiana na wewe ni pale unaposema kuwa wanohitaji elimu ya kutambua kuishi vizuri na jirani ni watu wapumbavu - watu ambao hawajapata 'formal education'. Kwa hakika huhitaji kupata PhD ya chemistry au electonics ili kujua namna ya kuishi na jirani.

Kwa mfano, week iliyopita hapa London, Saatchi na mke wake Nigella Lawson wameuza flat yao waliyokuwa wanaishi hapo zamani. Na sababu kubwa iliyowafanya wakahama toka kwenye hiyo flat ni mzozo na jirani zao. Saatchi sio mpumbavu, yeye na kaka yake ndio walianzisha Saatchi & Saatchi, pia mke wake (Nigella) sio mpumbavu, ameenda shule, na ni mtoto wa former chancellor of Exchequer Lord Lawson. Hivyo mgogoro kati ya majirani unaweza kutokea regardless watu hao wamesoma au la.

Tukirukudi hapa kwetu, nakubaliana kabisa na Kibona kwamba friction kati ya Kenya na Tanzania ni historical. Na hata leo hii ukifanya survey Kenya, statistically, watu wengi watasema watanzania ni 'wapumbavu' na nchi ni backward. Vivyo hivyo ukifanya survey Tanzania, statistically, watu wengi watakuambia wakenya ni manyang'au, wabinafsi na walafi wa pesa. Hizi ni feelings kati wa nchi hizi mbili, na zimedumu kwa muda mrefu. Na katika mazingira haya ni mwendawazimu tu ndiyo anaamini kuwa unaweza ku-fast track muungano (hata wa kuchota maji ya kunywesha mbuzi)!

Tanzania na Kenya ni nchi mbili tofauti kabisa na zimejengwa kwenye misingi tofauti. Tangu uhuru Kenya ime-emabrace capitalism, huku Tanzania wakiegemea african socialism. Hii ndiyo misingi inayofuma (suka) 'fabric' ya society kwa nchi hizi mbili. And unless kunakuwepo na juhudi za maksudi ili watu wa nchi hizi mbili wafahamiane EAC itakuwa zigzag. Tayari tuna skeleton in our cupboard, East Africa Community ya miaka ya 1970 ilikufa kwa sababu hizi hizi ambazo zinatuzonga sasa. Na watanzania dakika hii wangeulizwa wanataka nini EAC, I am almost certain wengi watasema tugawane mbao (kama zipo) kila mtu aende zake. People hate EAC with a passion. Na wanaposikia kelele mara za ardhi, free movement of labour, trade etc ndio wanazidi kupatwa na nyongo. tuachie hapo.

Hapo kwenye blue: Dawa ya kupambana na rushwa, ufisadi etc si kubalisha mtu mmoja mmoja tu. You need to do more than that. Ni lazime kuwepo na institutional framework strong enough ili kukabiliana na viongozi wabovu. Ndio maana tunaandaa katiba mpya. Na harakati za kudai katiba mpya zimedumu kwa miaka aprox 20 sasa (tangu 1992), better late than never. Hivyo tunajua tatizo la msingi ni lipi na kama jamii we are now doing something about it. Ninaamini tatizo la rushwa na ufisadi haliko tu Tanzania, Kenya nako kuna a catalogue iliyosheni kama x'mas tree. Na huko nyuma ilikuwa ni shida kupambana na ufisadi kwa sababu 'institutional framework' ililalia upande wa wakubwa, lakini baada ya kupata katiba mpya tunaona ile nguvu ya watawala kufunika mambo inapungua na wananchi wanakuwa na sauti stahiki kwenye ulingo wa utwala.

Ninachotaka kusema hapa, kama nchi, Tanzania tuna matatizo yetu and we are addressing them in our own way. Mahusiano mazuri kati nchi jirani kwenye nyanja mbalimbali i.e biashara, siasa ni jambo la kheri lakini kwa sasa EAC sio priority kwa watanzania wengi, EAC si mama wala baba wa watanzania. La msingi ni kusafisha nyumba na kuhakikisha msingi uko imara, and kama umesoma kwenye sub-forums hapa jamvini utaona kelele nyingi kati ya CHADEMA na CCM. EAC ni nyongeza.

Hivyo basi, kama nchi nyingine zinakwazwa na Tanzania kwa namna yoyote ile, basi ni vema wakajipanga upya na kuendelea bila Tanzania. But for nown, we are very busy sorting out our fundementals. Kelele hazitasaidia kitu zaidi ya kutibua nyongo za watu.

Well said mkuu!!

 

[FJM]

Kenya and the rest have to understand us on the following points:

..Tanzania kuna tatizo la unemployment, kwa hiyo serikali lazima iweke-restriction ktk suala la ajira.

..The doors r still open to highly qualified Kenyans,Rwandese,Ugandans, to come and work in Tanzania.

..Ardhi and it access is a stabilizing factor ukizingatia hali ya uchumi wa Tanzania and tatizo la un-employement.

..Matatizo ya ardhi ya Kenya,Rwanda,..yasihamishiwe huku Tanzania. Sisi tuna matatizo mengi zaidi ya ku-deal nayo.

..Natural resources za Tanzania ziwafaidishe wa-Tanzania kwanza, majirani wanaweza kukaribishwa but it has to be on out terms.

..The status quo of Tanzania being the producer of raw material and the biggest consumer of finished products in EA must end. We must make sure we do everything in our power to reverse that trend.

Kiongozi JokaKuu,

Huko nyuma sikuwa napitia hili jukwaa mara kwa mara, I am just so glad that I did. Kuna bolts nyingi sana za kukaza! This whole EAC should go to the dogs!

 

[adil_abdallah]

we tanzanian have our own traditions an ways of running ourselves..in nairoberry if u ask a person for a direction to a certain place,they ask u for little cash first then help u..in tz a person will get a pen first and draw u the directions!!!please dnt compare the rate of corruption of kenya with tanzania,tanzania is too holy compared to kenya..and please stop advertising mount kilimanjaro for us,we can do it ourselves!!

 

[Kabaridi]

I am with you: on the red: Pamoja na ubovu wake katiba ya Tanzania kwa sasa inaruhusu vyama vingi tngu 1995 na tayari kuna zaidi ya vyama 20 vilivyosajiliwa with the biggest being CCM, CHADEMA & CUF. Katiba iliyopo imekuwa inafanyiwa ammendments mara kwa mara, but still inampa madaraka makubwa sana kwa ofisi moja - Presidency. Exactly the same problem lilikuwa Kenya. I am sure kelele za katiba mpya zilidumu kwa kitambo huko Kenya but you now have one.

Na tatizo la katiba ni kwa nchi nyingi za Afrika kwambwa katiba zilizopo ni zile zilizoandikwa mara baada ya uhuru na hata kama mabadiliko yamefanywa bado ofisi moja inakuwa na nguvu sana. Lakini sasa watu -hasa 'dotcom generation' wanataka kuandika katiba inayofaa kwa mazingira ya sasa.

Nakumbuka kabla ya katiba mpya kuletwa kenya, kulikuwa na shida hasa katika uongozi. Mapendekezo yalikuwa yanatolewa one-man-mission enzi za KANU. Sasa ilikuwa ni utie amri au uondoke chamani. kupinga uongozi kama huu, inafaa katiba ibuniwe ambayo inapinga kubadili katiba bila idhini ya wadau kama wabunge.

Vita inavyopiganwa ya kuondoa ubeberu-mambo-leo katika serikali sasa hivi ni bure pasipo na cheti hii muhimu.

 

[Kabaridi]

Mzalendo samahani kama nimeeleza kwa hisia kali, lakini nakubaliana na wewe kitu kimoja kuwa sote tuna matatizo ya msingi kama vile uongozi mbovu, ufisadi na rushwa. Hivyo naona pana haja ya kila taifa kuhangaikia kutatua matatizo hayo. Sioni umuhimu wa media za kikenya kufanya juhudi ya kulalamikia mtazamo wa Tz kuelekea EAC maana kenya ina maslahi yake na Tz inayo maslahi yake, sasa inapotokea tunaenda tofauti hamna haja kulalamika.
Kwa mfano baadhi ya watu wanaongea juujuu tu kuwa Tz imesaini mikataba ya EAC lakini ktk sehemu zote ambazo wakenya wanalalamika juu ya Tz sijaona kama kuna sehemu TZ imevunja mkataba. Watu wanachanganya lengo la EAC na mikataba ktk EAC. Ni lengo la EAC kuhakikisha inakuza biashara miongoni mwa wanachama kwa kuruhusu free movement of people and capital lakini Tz iliweka wazi kuwa haiko tayari kuruhusu free movement of people haraka na ndio sababu Tz ilikataa kuondoa matumizi ya Passport.
Aidha kuhusu kama hata watz wanatakiwa kupata elimu ya staha, nadhani fanya research miongoni mwa waTz na wakenya halafu utagundua nani anatakiwa kupewa elimu ya staha.

Kile media ya kenya inao sasa hivi ni press freedom, ambayo inaweza kuwa damaging. Nadhani media inafaa kurestrict biased reporting and practise damage control, lakini media imefanya juhudi ya kuripoti wakenya wanavyosakamwa Tanzania licha ya waakilishi wa EAC kutoa mapendekezo kuwa levi ya dola $200 iondolewe. Hata hivyo, Tanzania reserves the right to implement their policies they way the need to inorder to benefit. Lakini inaonekana tatizo ni law enforcement agencies pamoja na ofisi za Idara ya uhamiaji za huko ndiyo wasumbufu.

 

[FJM]

Nakumbuka kabla ya katiba mpya kuletwa kenya, kulikuwa na shida hasa katika uongozi. Mapendekezo yalikuwa yanatolewa one-man-mission enzi za KANU. Sasa ilikuwa ni utie amri au uondoke chamani. kupinga uongozi kama huu, inafaa katiba ibuniwe ambayo inapinga kubadili katiba bila idhini ya wadau kama wabunge.

Vita inavyopiganwa ya kuondoa ubeberu-mambo-leo katika serikali sasa hivi ni bure pasipo na cheti hii muhimu.

You know the score, KANU na CCM ni kama mapacha. Nakumbuka Uhuru Kenyatta alialikwa kwenye mkutano mkubwa wa CCM na aliposimama aliwaambia wana-ccm, jitahidini sana msiondoke madarakani, maana ukishaondoka kurudi ni ngumu sana. Kwa sasa Tume (Committee) ya kati katiba imeshaundwa na the plan is to have new KATIBA before 2015.

 

[Kabaridi]

we tanzanian have our own traditions an ways of running ourselves..in nairoberry if u ask a person for a direction to a certain place,they ask u for little cash first then help u..in tz a person will get a pen first and draw u the directions!!!please dnt compare the rate of corruption of kenya with tanzania,tanzania is too holy compared to kenya..and please stop advertising mount kilimanjaro for us,we can do it ourselves!!

could be you do not get news disseminated widely in Tanzania but according to TI transparency international, Tanzania is the most corrupt country in East and central Africa after Uganda and Burundi


Country Rank Country Bribery Prevalence Rank in 2010 Bribery Prevalence
2011 2010
1 Burundi 37.9% 1 36.7%
2 Uganda 33.9% 2 33.0%
3 Tanzania 31.6% 4 28.6%
4 Kenya 28.8% 3 31.9%
5 Rwanda 5.1% 5 6.6%

source [url]http://www.tikenya.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=73&Itemid=67&layout=default&date=2012-04-01[/URL]