Nape refutes Mnyika; TBC takes debate off air

Huyu habarindiyo hiyo either ni Mnyika mwenyewe au anatumiwa na Mnyika na hasa ukichukuliwa kuwa Mnyika na Nape ndiyo wagombea watarajiwa jimbo la ubungo,lengo lake ni kutaka kutuaminisha kuwa Mnyika ni zaidi ya Nape.

Mkuu kakulwa umesoma hiyo habari lakini! Naona kama unaongea kinyume:

Contract as from http://www.lectlaw.com/def/c123.htm

CONTRACT - An agreement between two or more competent parties in which an offer is made and accepted, and each party benefits. The agreement can be formal, informal, written, oral or just plain understood. Some contracts are required to be in writing in order to be enforced. (2) An agreement between two or more parties which creates obligations to do or not do the specific things that are the subject of that agreement. Examples of a contract are a lease, a promissory note, or a rental agreement.
 
eti nini? kijana nape anaamini kwamba zile ahadi na
kujinadi kwa wagombea kwa wapiga kura sio mkataba!
nachoka kabisa.

kwa hiyo nape anaamini mchaguliwa hawajibiki kutekeleza
yale anayoahidi na pindi akifanyahivyo ni kawatendea hisani
wapiga kura.

kweli safari bado ndefu sana.
 
the whole nature of politics is the agreement between the rulers and the ruled; the candidates for a political position would articulate their promises and plans to the voters, it is on the basis of these promises and plans that the voters are supposed to elect the candidates. As such, the inherent character of contract emerges. That is, We will do x,y (implement the manifestos).. if you do a,b (vote for us).

Therefore, election primarily is a contract between the candidates (even more a political party) and the voters. And there is a time limit for the party (candidates) to fulfill their obligations. If they fail, then the people (the voters) have a right and indeed a moral obligation to vote those people out on the basis that they did not fulfill their part of contract.

That is why Kikwete must go; no more five years!

Well argued mate! That's why in a true democracy we see change of governments when those in power fail to deliver.
 
The notion that Nape refutes that there is a contract between the electorate and the candidate underscore the shocking state of irresponsibility among our leadership, even the so called "Young Turks".

I mean kama wewe kiongozi unagombea madaraka hutaki hata ku acknowledge kwamba utawekwa responsible kwa ahadi zako, tutegemee nini kutoka kwako? Kwa nini unatoa ahadi?

Yaani mimi nilifikiri hii thread ni kuhusu some nuanced complicated issues, kumbe ni huyu mjinga mjinga Nape anajivua nguo hadharani jinsi gani alivyo parochial kihivyo?

What does he think this is, Communist China?

Nimemshtukia kwamba jamaa hana msimamo, lakini hapa ndipo kajidhihirisha rasmi.

Kama huamini kwamba kuna contract, hiyo manifesto ni nini? Hizo ahadi ni nini? uchaguzi wa nini?

No wonder hawakeep their own words, kwa sababu fundamentally hawaamini kama kuna ulazima wa kufanya hivyo, hawaamini kama kuna contract.

Mnyika anaongea kitu very basic lakini vichwa tope hawajui hata cha kusema, achilia mbali cha kufanya.

Nape inabidi arudi darasani, achukue kitabu na kujielimisha au akae na watu wanaoelewa mambo, anajiaibisha kwa utupu anaoutoa.
 
Nape naye ni msomi ati...na ni next generation leader

Contract with America...anyone remember that?

"The Contract with America was a document released by the United StatesRepublican Party during the 1994 Congressional election campaign. Written by Larry Hunter who was aided by Newt Gingrich, Robert Walker, Richard Armey, Bill Paxon, Tom DeLay, John Boehner and Jim Nussle, and in part using text from former President Ronald Reagan's 1985State of the Union Address, the Contract detailed the actions the Republicans promised to take if they became the majority party in the United States House of Representatives for the first time in 40 years. Many of the Contract's policy ideas originated at The Heritage Foundation, a highly influential conservative think tank."

Source: wiki
 
Wakuu Reverend na Mwanakijiji;

John Mnyika mwenyewe ametapatapa ndio maana akaingiza maneno kama "Manifesto" Na ndio maana kama mmesoma postin yangu,manifesto siyo a legally binding contract,kwanza sidhani hata kama manifesto means contact,ila manifesto ni decleration of intentions, na ndio maana nimesema kuwa tunataka pia tuyasikie maoni ya Nape kwamba ni kivipi hizo contract zitakuwa enforced ama hata kuleta any difference hence accountability...Kwasababu nionavyo mimi hapa contract zinazozungumziwa si zile ambazo ni "Legally binding contracts" ambazo nadhani kama mgombea akitoa ahadi na akashindwa kuzitimiza basi anaweza kufunguliwa mashtaka,pointi yangu ndipo ilipokuwa kuwa.

Kuhusiana na relevance ya pointi ya Mnyika nilisha ia analyze hapo juu,kuwa kwenye current political contracts,mwananchi ndiye mwenye kumhold accountable kiongozi pale asipotimiza ahadi zake kwa kutokumpigia kura tena,je hilo lina constitute to a "Legally binding contract?"

Kwasababu if that was the case then tunaweza kuwaburuza mahakamani viongozi wanapotoa ahadi hewa?

Yani kama ikiwezekana nifungue kesi dhidi ya JK kuwa hakuna maisha bora kwa kila Mtanzania kama alivyoahidi miaka mitano iliyopita?

Naomba tuelimishane zaidi kwenye hili waungwana.
 
Wakuu Reverend na Mwanakijiji;

John Mnyika mwenyewe ametapatapa ndio maana akaingiza maneno kama "Manifesto" Na ndio maana kama mmesoma postin yangu,manifesto siyo a legally binding contract,kwanza sidhani hata kama manifesto means contact,ila manifesto ni decleration of intentions, na ndio maana nimesema kuwa tunataka pia tuyasikie maoni ya Nape kwamba ni kivipi hizo contract zitakuwa enforced ama hata kuleta any difference hence accountability...Kwasababu nionavyo mimi hapa contract zinazozungumziwa si zile ambazo ni "Legally binding contracts" ambazo nadhani kama mgombea akitoa ahadi na akashindwa kuzitimiza basi anaweza kufunguliwa mashtaka,pointi yangu ndipo ilipokuwa kuwa.

Kuhusiana na relevance ya pointi ya Mnyika nilisha ia analyze hapo juu,kuwa kwenye current political contracts,mwananchi ndiye mwenye kumhold accountable kiongozi pale asipotimiza ahadi zake kwa kutokumpigia kura tena,je hilo lina constitute to a "Legally binding contract?"

Kwasababu if that was the case then tunaweza kuwaburuza mahakamani viongozi wanapotoa ahadi hewa?

Yani kama ikiwezekana nifungue kesi dhidi ya JK kuwa hakuna maisha bora kwa kila Mtanzania kama alivyoahidi miaka mitano iliyopita?

Naomba tuelimishane zaidi kwenye hili waungwana.

Unapoongea kama mwanasiasa ni muhimu kupima maneno na kuyaangalia ina all possible interpretations na the bigger picture /context.

Nape kusema hakuna contracts ni blunder.Period.

Katika ku asses uelewa kama Mnyika anasema katika uchaguzi kuna contract na wananchi na Nape anabisha basi Mnyika anashinda hands down.Period.
 
Mwanangu JMushi,

Mnyika is right on his statement that there is always a contract between a representative with the people he represent.

THe contract that CCM has with Tanzania is that it will lead and steer Tanzania towards development and achieve success and enjoy the fruits of our Independence. In addition CCM as part of its role as contractor, it has vowed and made promise to Tanzanians that it will deliver the goods for Tanzania as Tanzania have prescribed.

Be it Ilani ya Uchaguzi or Kauli Mbiu Ari Mpya, Nguvu Mpya na Kasi Mpya, those are the terms that CCM presented to win the contract!

With that said, CCM or Nape for that case does not understand that there is an obligation for CCM to deliver what it stated it will do for Tanzania.

For Nape to claim that the mandate given to CCM to lead Tanzania is not a contract or anything binding or that it can never be measured simply because there is no specific written contractual terms, brings to light his ability to understand Politics and role of Politician.

There are unwritten measurement items that can be utilised by constituence or country for that sake to measure a Politician or POlitical party.

For instance, CCM is claiming it has build Secondary school in each ward, that can be measured as an achievment, whoever, when one make a thorough analysis of presence of these schools by evaluating the output (end result of having schools), one can clearly see that the efforts to build schools has not resulted or translated to result as the quality of education is still weak, teachers are inadequately trained and the students are studying in such hard conditions due to lack of necessities such as books, desks, chairs, clean water, healthy food and sanitary environment.

We can also ask, the quality of health care, availability of jobs, poverty reduction, accountability, and measure them from the time the contractor made promise to deliver and see if we as people can take action by revoking the contract through ballot and appoint a new contractor.

Kikwete claimed he will create a Million jobs, has he been able to deliver?

CCM claimed they will reduce poverty, what is the poverty index in Tanzania today, 5 years after the last promise was made?

Kikwete's government promised it will fight graft, corruption and bureaucracy,, however Tanzania is still ranked highest in Corruption, should we renew the contract with Kikwete?

So whether written or unwritten, the promises made to Tanzanians by CCM through its election manifesto, was a bid for them to enter the contract to lead Tanzania.

Mnyika was right, and Nape exposed himself!
Mzee wangu Reverand Kishoka; hapo chini ni ile kauli ya relevance ambayo imepelekea nyie kuona kwamba alichosema Myika kina relate ama ni relevace
na mimi ndiyo nika irufute kwasababu contract kuhusu wanayoyafanya wananchi didi ya accountability or the breach of a contact ni "none existence" at least kwenye siasa zetu za bongo ao wananchi...ccm inapeta tu all the time,wananchi hawaoni kama ni kweli kuna kitu kama "Mkataba" Kwasababu mawazoni mwa mwananchi ni kwamba ukivunja mkataba unapelekwa mhakani,hiyo ndo experience yao.

Issue hapa sasa ni kuhakikisha kuwa wananchi wana nguvu zinzotakiwa kuwa hold accountable viongozi intimes of a breach of contract....Na ndio maana nikasisitizia kuhusu a "Legally biniding contract"


Njabu da Dude said:
Mnyika displayed broad and thorough understanding of the subject matter under discussion and was relevant
 
Wakati huu nampa benefit Nape kwa sababu tunachokisoma sijui kama ndicho hasa alichokisema au alichomaanisha. Kwa sababu anaweza kuwa technically right kama anashikilia maana ya Mkataba wenye nguvu ya kisheria (legally binding contract). Lakini kwa maana ya makubaliano yenye ridhaa ya kutekeleza mapatano ya pande mbili atakuwa amekosea kutokukubali kuwa uchaguzi ni mkataba.

Tusimhukumu kwa ukali kwa sababu ninachokiona ni jaribio la kuwagonganisha vijana hawa wawili waumizane mapema. Binafsi ningependa sana wote wawili waende Bungeni na wasiangushane kwa sababu ya neno "is".
 
Unapoongea kama mwanasiasa ni muhimu kupima maneno na kuyaangalia ina all possible interpretations na the bigger picture /context.

Nape kusema hakuna contracts ni blunder.Period.

Katika ku asses uelewa kama Mnyika anasema katika uchaguzi kuna contract na wananchi na Nape anabisha basi Mnyika anashinda hands down.Period.

Nakubaliana na wewe,lakini akija hapa na kusema alimaanisha "Legally binding contract" Then ana point.
 
Hapa kama kinachoripotiwa ni sahihi, Nape amepata "Freudian slip"

Amesema kile anachofeel moyoni hasa, ameweka all calculations na political correctness aside. Albeit unintentionally, which takes away any potential credit for being forthcomingly candid.

Amesema kwamba hamna contract, nichagueni halafu mkishanichagua nitaamua kama niwaletee maendeleo kama nilivyoahidi kwa hisani yangu mwenyewe tu, au niwafisadi kama ninavyotaka.

Lakini msitake kuniletea upuuzi wa kwamba tuna contract, contract gani? First of all I am a Nnauye and this shyt is my birthright, contract gani?

Contract gani?
 
Hapa kama kinachoripotiwa ni sahihi, Nape amepata "Freudian slip"

Amesema kile anachofeel moyoni hasa, ameweka all calculations na political correctness aside. Albeit unintentionally, which takes away any potential credit for being forthcomingly candid.

Amesema kwamba hamna contract, nichagueni halafu mkishanichagua nitaamua kama niwaletee maendeleo kama nilivyoahidi kwa hisani yangu mwenyewe tu, au niwafisadi kama ninavyotaka.

Lakini msitake kuniletea upuuzi wa kwamba tuna contract, contract gani? First of all I am a Nnauye and this shyt is my birthright, contract gani?

Contract gani?

Hakuna contract,ni manifesto kama anavyosema Mnyika ambaye anadai manifesto ni neccessarily a contract....Which is certainly untrue, if he proves me wrong i will respect it with hoja kwa hoja....Je wewe unadai mikataba hiyo kati ya ahadi za mgombea na mwananchi ni za kisheria?Naomba ujibu hilo.
 
Nakubaliana na wewe,lakini akija hapa na kusema alimaanisha "Legally binding contract" Then ana point.
Katika sheria, kuna kitu kinaitwa "the letter of the law" halafu kuna kitu kingine kinaitwa "the spirit of the law"

Mwanasiasa atakayekuja hapa na kuniambia kwamba election si legally binding contract atakuwa legally right kwa maana ya kwamba yuko sawa katika legalese.

Lakini ukija katika bigger picture, maswala ya leadership na accountability, maswala ya integrity, hii kauli, hata kama anazungumzia "the letter of the law" instead of "the spirit of the law" itakuwa ni political suicide.

Kuna law na justice, na justice si lazima itiririke kutoka katika law. Naamini hawakwenda kwenye TV kudiscuss academic abstracts, wameenda kujinadi kuhusu matatizo ya wananchi.

Sasa kama mwanasiasa katika kujinadi ananiambia kwamba hatakuwa accountable (basically) then to me that is commiting political suicide right there.
 
Ingependeza tuone footage ya huo mdahalo ili tuweze kujua alitamka hivyo ktk muktadha gani. La sivyo nadhani mtakuwa mnacheza sarakasi ya maneno tu
 
Katika sheria, kuna kitu kinaitwa "the letter of the law" halafu kuna kitu kingine kinaitwa "the spirit of the law"

Mwanasiasa atakayekuja hapa na kuniambia kwamba election si legally binding contract atakuwa legally right kwa maana ya kwamba yuko sawa katika legalese.

Lakini ukija katika bigger picture, maswala ya leadership na accountability, maswala ya integrity, hii kauli, hata kama anazungumzia "the letter of the law" instead of "the spirit of the law" itakuwa ni political suicide.

Kuna law na justice, na justice si lazima itiririke kutoka katika law. Naamini hawakwenda kwenye TV kudiscuss academic abstracts, wameenda kujinadi kuhusu matatizo ya wananchi.

Sasa kama mwanasiasa katika kujinadi ananiambia kwamba hatakuwa accountable (basically) then to me that is commiting political suicide right there.

Taratibu mkuu,soma kwa makini,Nape alisema hivi...Mkuu soma post by post kabla hazija accumulate uwe na kisingizio that they were too much to follow up...Kwasababu mbali na blunders zote za mafisadi mbona wanachaguliwa tena na tena?Ama wananchi ndiyo corrupt judiciary system under the ballot box?
He further called for review of the existing systems to ensure that contracts are made between the politicians and the people.
 
Hakuna contract,ni manifesto kama anavyosema Mnyika ambaye anadai manifesto ni neccessarily a contract....Which is certainly untrue, if he proves me wrong i will respect it with hoja kwa hoja....Je wewe unadai mikataba hiyo kati ya ahadi za mgombea na mwananchi ni za kisheria?Naomba ujibu hilo.


Manifesto ni contract, ni social contract. Inaweza kuwa si legally binding contract (that is also debatable, in a lawsuit society kama US unaweza kupigwa lawsuit kwa kutotimiza election promise) lakini ni contract.

So far issue si whether hii ni "legally binding contract" or not, ni whether it is a contract or not.

Yaani Nape anajionyesha alivyo low tu.
 
Nilikiangalia kile kipindi kwenye TBC na watu walioonyesha uelewa wa masuala ya vijana na nini wajibu wao kwa Taifa ni Eyakuze na Mnyika. Nape hakuonesha ujuaji wa nini vijana as a homogenous group wanatakiwa kulifanyia Taifa; yeye bado alikuwa na ushabiki wa CCm mbele kabla ya Taifa!! Mnyika na Eyakuze were stars lakini huyu Nape ni product ya Mafisadi wa CCm kwahiyo hata kama anataka kumvaa Mnyika katika ushindani wa ubunge Ubungo ajue tu kuwa amefulia!!Nilishangaa kuwa huyu Nape hata kiingereza chake ni cha kubabia babia tu kama Kanumba ingawa CCm imejitahidi kumpeleka kusoma India!! Alikuwa anakivunja kweli kiingereza afadhali kama wanavyotoa hoja wengine vipindi hivi viwe kwa kiswahili!!
 
Earlier in the program Nape had maintained that in politics, achievements of politicians can not be measured since there are no contracts made. He further called for review of the existing systems to ensure that contracts are made between the politicians and the people.
Kumbe Nape naye ni bogus; inaelekea anataka politics kwa kuamini kuwa akiwa huko hata akifanya madudu hatafanyiwa lolote kwa kuwa anadhani kuwa hakuna kipimo cha utendaji wa politicians. Ni view hii ya politicians wetu ndiyo iliyotuleta hapa kwa vile waoa wanaamaini kuwa akishafiki huko mbele basi hana mkataba na raia tena. Upuuzi kabisa huo.


Mr. Mnyika maintained that there are already contracts between the politicians and the voters. He maintained that according to the law of cotract, they can be written or unwritten; therefore the elections manifestos are written contracts while the electrol promises are verbal commitments that politicians are supposed to fulfil.

He alleged that what is lacking in our country is power of recall to hold accountable policians who have failed to impliment the contracts, and further alleged that even the elections have not been effective tool to remove from power leaders who have failed to fulfil the elections promises.
Mnyika was 100% right; nawashangaa sana wanaopinga ukweli huo. Huyu Nape anayedai kuwa IN POLITICS...blah blah blah.... sijui ana maana gani wakati tunajua kuwa marekani huwaondoa wanasiasa wao madarakani wanaposhindwa kutekeleza ahadi zao hata kabla ya muda wao haujaisha; kinachotakiwa ni utaratibu wa kisheria kufuatwa kufanya hivyo. Ndiyo maana wabunge na magavana wote wa marekani wana utaratibu wa kuwa na websites na kupeleka Newsletters kwa waananchi wao kuelezea walichofanya kulingana na ahadi zao; vile vile wana wasadizi wanaokaa majimboni kuhakikisha kuwa wanawafahamisha wananchi kila jambo linalofanywa na mbunge wao.

Akumbuke kuwa Gavana Schwarzenegger aliingia madarakani huko California baada ya Gavana aliyekuwa Gray Davis kuondolewa madarakani miaka miwili kabla ya muda wake ilipoonekana kuwa alitoa ahadi za uiongo wakati wa uchaguzi uliokuwa umemwingiza madarakani.
 
Taratibu mkuu,soma kwa makini,Nape alisema hivi...Mkuu soma post by post kabla hazija accumulate uwe na kisingizio that they were too much to follow up...Kwasababu mbali na blunders zote za mafisadi mbona wanachaguliwa tena na tena?Ama wananchi ndiyo corrupt judiciary system under the ballot box?

Hapo maana yake ni kwamba haamini kama zilizopo ni contract.

Huyu jamaa yuko misguied, hajui maana ya contract. Na zaidi ya yote haelewi tofauti kati ya legal contract na social contract, na haelewi tofauti kati ya "the pirit of the law" na "the letter of the law" wala "law" na "justice".

Anaonekana kufikiri kwamba the letter of the law ni muhimu kuliko the spirit of the law bila uelewa kwamba the spirit of the law ndiyo inayozaa the letter of the law.

Watu kama hawa watatupotezea muda na unnecessary na possibly costly abstraction na academic debate wakati issues zinalala.

Mnyika katika hili anaelekea kuelewa nini ni muhimu right from the bat, thats whats up, thats what we need.We do not need some Thabo Mbeki types of academic denying the obvious, like HIV, does not exist.

Thats whats up.
 
No contract indeed so what is the meaning of votting when it come to elections.....

Hypothetically if there were no votes cast what would be the out come of an election? The incumbent continues?

Ah.........
 
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