Image of virgin Mary grows on tree

[Kiranga]

Naomba unisaidie, akili yako itafanyakazi kupima na kuelewa ikiwa nitakuletea device gani, picha, video au sanamu ili ufahamu kuwa yuko mungu?
Wako wewe ni utoto. Kitu hukijuwi na unaambiwa hichi ndio kitu chenyewe unachokitaka unasema sicho. Kumbe hicho kitu unachotaka uonyeshwe hukijui kilivyokaa kama utathibitisha kuwa hichi sicho.
​Kuwa muwazi jee unataka picha ya Mungu au Video yake au unataka document ya karatasi?

Hili swali mbona nishalijibu kama mara kumi tayari katika thread hii?

Nimeeleza, give me a logically consistent construct of your godhead at the very least, if at all you understand what that is, for your godhead to be even plausible.

Now, do you understand what that is?

Because to me, for you to even ask this question, a question that has ben answered several times, it shows me the either:

1. You are not paying attention to the discussion.

Or

2. Even if you are trying to pay attention, some concepts are too far above your capacity and compromised by a pathologically rotten cognitive dissonance.

Quite possibly you have a case of a deadly combination of the two.

Kutokujua jibu la swali isiwe mtaji wa kunipa jibu la uongo. Sihitaji kujua jibu exact la kweli ili kujua jibu fulani ni la uongo.

Nimekupa mfano, ukiniambia "What is the square root of two, to the sixth decimal place accuracy?" nitakwambia sijui jibu.

Ukiniambia jibu ni 8.265821 nitakupinga, bila hata kujua jibu lenyewe.

Kwa sababu ingawa jibu kamili silijui, najua kwamba square root ya mbiki ni lazima iwe ndogo kuliko mbili, haiwezi kuwa kubwa zaidi ya mbili. Hivyo haiwezi kuwa 8.265821.

Wewe unachotaka kuniambia hapa ni kwamba, kama sijui square root ya mbiki ni nini, nikubali jibu lolote utakalonipa, hata kama wewe mwenyewe umeshindwa kuniinyesha jibu hilo linakuwaje square root ya mbili.

Hivyo hivyo, umeniuliza chanzo changu ni nini. Nimekwambia sijui. Lakini kukuambia sijui haina maana nikubali tu jibu lako la kwamba chanzo changu ni mungu huyo unayemtaja ambaye hayuko logically consistent, bila ya wewe kunionyesha huyo mungu asiye logically consistent amekuwaje chanzo changu, na kwa nini mimi nisiwezekane kuwapo kwa njia nyingine yoyote.

 

[Kiranga]

Hivi Biblia ilipozunguumzia uumbaji ni Mbingu na Dunia tuliyopo tu zilizoainishwa? Au ni pamoja na sayari nyingine?

Biblia iko so far back kiasi inaeleza kwamba jua linazunguka dunia badala ya dunia kuzunguka dunia. Imeandikwa na watu tu, si mungu. Na hawa watu hawakuwa na ujuzi wa sayari nyingine.

 

[Kiranga]

Kwanza inabidi uelewe Kiranga si wa kwanza kufika hapa duniani.
Pili huyu Kiranga hapa duniani hana usaidizi wowote wa kuwepo hii dunia.
Huyu Kiranga hajiwezi chochote katika kubadilisha kile alichowekewa na aliyemleta.
Huyu Kiranga hana hata uwezo wa kuondosha vitu vinavyomkera kwa mfano kinyesi, harufu mbaya na jasho baya.

Hivi vyote vimepangwa na mwenye uwezo na baadae hakukaa kimya tu bali amejitokeza kwa namna aliyopenda kueleza kuwa haya yote aliyomfanyia Kiranga asiemtambua pamoja na sie tunaomtambua ni kazi yake na ni uwezo wake.
Baada ya kauli hiyo ya Mungu hatujapata mwengine aliyethibitika kudai kuwa Kiranga hakuja tu bali ameletwa.
Kinachoshangaza umekuwa ukirudiarudia kuuliza na kutaka hata pale unapopewa. Lingekuwa jambo la busara kwa wewe kuthibitisha kuwa huyo Mungu wetu aliekuja akajieleza kwetu sie kwani hicho anachodai kufanya , yaani kumuumba Kiranga, kumpatia ardhi na mambo ya faida yaliyomo, hakufanya yeye bali yamefanywa na mimi Kiranga. Ningekuelewa na pengine ningekuwa na shaka na uwepo wa Mungu.

Maneno mengi tu umeandika.

Lakini hamna hata moja linalothibitisha kuwapo kwa mungu.

Mimi sijauliza kama Kiranga mdogo au mkubwa, anajiweza au hajiwezi, kapanga au kapangiwa n.k.

Nimeuliza, unaweza kuthibitisha kwamba mungu yupo?

Hujathibitisha.

Unajibu maswali ambayo hujaulizwa, swali uliloulizwa umeshindwa kulijibu.

 

[Ngekewa]

Hili swali mbona nishalijibu kama mara kumi tayari katika thread hii?

Nimeeleza, give me a logically consistent construct of your godhead at the very least, if at all you understand what that is, for your godhead to be even plausible.
I have been repeatedly that logical consistence of God is the universal and only one process of human creation. Have you ever heard the other way of creation of beings?
That is the only one aspect among many of Gods creation.
So far we have been witnessing competitions in every sort of inventions but not on creation.
that does not pass in your mind to aska yourself how come that only creations do not face competition?

Now, do you understand what that is?

Because to me, for you to even ask this question, a question that has ben answered several times, it shows me the either:

1. You are not paying attention to the discussion.

Or

2. Even if you are trying to pay attention, some concepts are too far above your capacity and compromised by a pathologically rotten cognitive dissonance.

May I take opportunity to thank you for at least you are talking about youself. How many times have you bee askind "thibitisha" ana how many times have you been evading my question which asks you the sams "thibitishsa " in the opposite direction?

When you talk about 'concepts are too above your capacity" does it imply that there were concepts that you have brought forward? Such as which concept, were they' hard working and planing'? Regretfully these are the only concept you came with during all of our discussion.
Ironical the concept of your existence has been a thorn to you and you have always been side track. Why, ist as you have said, "above your capacity?
For once to prove me wrong, face it and tacle it.

Quite possibly you have a case of a deadly combination of the two.

Kutokujua jibu la swali isiwe mtaji wa kunipa jibu la uongo. Sihitaji kujua jibu exact la kweli ili kujua jibu fulani ni la uongo.

Pengine una matatizo kufikiri kuwa kila mtu atakudanganya basi iwapo unaona nimekupa jibu la uongo, huna haja ya kuniuliza. Badala yake wewe fanya kazi ya kuthibitisha kuwa kitu kinachotajwa hakipo na sio useme tu hakipo badala useme hakipo kwa sababu moja, mbili, tatu kama ulivyochukuwa juhudi ya kuandika sababu zako hapo juu. Isiwe unakuwa na kigugumizi kuzitaja sababu zilizokufikisha wewe kusema mungu hayupo.

Nimekupa mfano, ukiniambia "What is the square root of two, to the sixth decimal place accuracy?" nitakwambia sijui jibu.

Ukiniambia jibu ni 8.265821 nitakupinga, bila hata kujua jibu lenyewe.

Kwa sababu ingawa jibu kamili silijui, najua kwamba square root ya mbiki ni lazima iwe ndogo kuliko mbili, haiwezi kuwa kubwa zaidi ya mbili. Hivyo haiwezi kuwa 8.265821.

Na kwa akili yako mimi nitabishana na wewe kwa inventions, unahiyari yako ya kuamini kwa njia gani utumie kupata jawabu lakini ninapokuja kwenye creation ni ujuha na uenda wazimu kupinga kwani mmoja tu kaamuwa hivyo na huwezi kutumia nyia nyengine. Kutafuta Square root unakuona sawa na kujiuliza umekujaje hapa ulimwenguni? Ikiwa hiyo square root ndiyo concept unayoizungumzia basi si sawa na unayoikimbia ya kuumbwa kwako.

Wewe unachotaka kuniambia hapa ni kwamba, kama sijui square root ya mbiki ni nini, nikubali jibu lolote utakalonipa, hata kama wewe mwenyewe umeshindwa kuniinyesha jibu hilo linakuwaje square root ya mbili.

Hivyo hivyo, umeniuliza chanzo changu ni nini. Nimekwambia sijui. Lakini kukuambia sijui haina maana nikubali tu jibu lako la kwamba chanzo changu ni mungu huyo unayemtaja ambaye hayuko logically consistent, bila ya wewe kunionyesha huyo mungu asiye logically consistent amekuwaje chanzo changu, na kwa nini mimi nisiwezekane kuwapo kwa njia nyingine yoyote.

Nakusikitikia sana kuwa unakuwa na uhakika wa jambo (kutokuwepo Mungu) lakini hujui umekujaje duniani. Halafu unakuwa mbishi unapoambiwa jinsi ulivyokuja.
Haya maneno mawili 'logically' na 'consistence' ulizaliwa nayo wewe? Si uliyakuta na ukaelezwa maana zake basi logically mimi sipati chchote kukudanganya wewe kuwa umeumbwa na mungu na consistently nimekuwa na msimamo huo.

 

[Ngekewa]

Maneno mengi tu umeandika.

Lakini hamna hata moja linalothibitisha kuwapo kwa mungu.

Mimi sijauliza kama Kiranga mdogo au mkubwa, anajiweza au hajiwezi, kapanga au kapangiwa n.k.

Nimeuliza, unaweza kuthibitisha kwamba mungu yupo?

Hujathibitisha.

Unajibu maswali ambayo hujaulizwa, swali uliloulizwa umeshindwa kulijibu.

Hayo mengi na uchache wake wa kuthibitisha si ndio yangu? sasa yakanushe hayo kwa yakoili uthibitishe kutokuwepo kwa Mungu.

 

[Kiranga]

Hayo mengi na uchache wake wa kuthibitisha si ndio yangu? sasa yakanushe hayo kwa yakoili uthibitishe kutokuwepo kwa Mungu.

Siwezi kukanusha kitu ambavho hata hakijajaribu kujibu swali langu.

Swali langu lilikuwa, unaweza kuthibitisha kwamba mungu yupo?

Swali hili hujalijibu. Umeliepuka.

Sasa unaniambia nikanushe. Nikanushe lipi wakati swali langu hujalijibu?

Ninachoweza kukuambia hapa ni kwamba, kama una haja na majadiliano ya msingi, nijibu swali langu.

Katika jibu lako, kama kuna cha kukanusha, ningekanusha.

Lakini kabla hujanijibu, siwezi kukanusha. Kwa maana hakuna cha kukanusha.

Nitakachoweza kufanya ni kusema tu kwamba hujajibu swali la msingi.

Ama kwa udogo wa mawazo yako na kutoelewa lipi ni swali la msingi.

Au kwa makusudi, na hata baada ya kuelewa lipi ni swali la msingi, kwa sababu huna jibu, kuliepa kwa njama na hila kwa kujua kwamba huna jibu la kuridhisha.

 

[Kiranga]

Nakusikitikia sana kuwa unakuwa na uhakika wa jambo (kutokuwepo Mungu) lakini hujui umekujaje duniani. Halafu unakuwa mbishi unapoambiwa jinsi ulivyokuja.
Haya maneno mawili 'logically' na 'consistence' ulizaliwa nayo wewe? Si uliyakuta na ukaelezwa maana zake basi logically mimi sipati chchote kukudanganya wewe kuwa umeumbwa na mungu na consistently nimekuwa na msimamo huo.

Ningekuwa na uhakika nisingekuuliza unihakikishie na kunithibitishia kwamba mungu yupo.

Kusema mimi nina uhakika ni kutoelewa kwamba katika dunia hii, hakuna yeyote aliye na uhakika wa kweli kuhusu chochote.

Na hata hilo halina uhakika.

 

[Ngekewa]

Siwezi kukanusha kitu ambavho hata hakijajaribu kujibu swali langu.

Swali langu lilikuwa, unaweza kuthibitisha kwamba mungu yupo?

Swali hili hujalijibu. Umeliepuka.

Sasa unaniambia nikanushe. Nikanushe lipi wakati swali langu hujalijibu?

Ninachoweza kukuambia hapa ni kwamba, kama una haja na majadiliano ya msingi, nijibu swali langu.

Katika jibu lako, kama kuna cha kukanusha, ningekanusha.

Lakini kabla hujanijibu, siwezi kukanusha. Kwa maana hakuna cha kukanusha.

Nitakachoweza kufanya ni kusema tu kwamba hujajibu swali la msingi.

Ama kwa udogo wa mawazo yako na kutoelewa lipi ni swali la msingi.

Au kwa makusudi, na hata baada ya kuelewa lipi ni swali la msingi, kwa sababu huna jibu, kuliepa kwa njama na hila kwa kujua kwamba huna jibu la kuridhisha.

Hebu jibu suala hili kwa lughaya Kiswahili na Kiingereza.
"Who are you?" au
"wewe ni nani?"

 

[Ngekewa]

Ningekuwa na uhakika nisingekuuliza unihakikishie na kunithibitishia kwamba mungu yupo.

Kusema mimi nina uhakika ni kutoelewa kwamba katika dunia hii, hakuna yeyote aliye na uhakika wa kweli kuhusu chochote.

Na hata hilo halina uhakika.

You are quite funny my friend Kiranga!
Umekuwa ukisisitiza logic nami nakupa logic, umekuwa ukisisitiza consistance​ nami nakuonyesha consistency unajifa nya huelewi. Tuseme haya maneno huyajui maana yake au vipi?

 

[Kiranga]

Hebu jibu suala hili kwa lughaya Kiswahili na Kiingereza.
"Who are you?" au
"wewe ni nani?"

How is this relevant to the question of the existence of god?

If I say I don't know, how does that prove or disprove the existence of a godhead?

 

[Kiranga]

You are quite funny my friend Kiranga!
Umekuwa ukisisitiza logic nami nakupa logic, umekuwa ukisisitiza consistance​ nami nakuonyesha consistency unajifa nya huelewi. Tuseme haya maneno huyajui maana yake au vipi?

Ukinipa logic iliyo nje ya swali nililouliza inakuwa bado hujajibu swali logically.

Na hujawa consistent.

Kwa sababu hujajibu swali uliloulizwa.

Ambalo ni kuthibitisha uwepo wa mungu.

Unaweza kujibu swali la kuthibitisha uwepo wa mungu in a logically consistent way?

Kama unaweza naomba jibu hapa.

Asante.

 

[Ngekewa]

How is this relevant to the question of the existence of god?

If I say I don't know, how does that prove or disprove the existence of a godhead?

It proves that you know the answer might end your play and I may take this opportunity to exist from your play.
If only you had answered my question, I would know for sure you were really ignorant with the existence of God but the deliberately dodging the questio had relieved to me that you not such ignorant.

 

[Ngekewa]

Ukinipa logic iliyo nje ya swali nililouliza inakuwa bado hujajibu swali logically.

Na hujawa consistent.

Kwa sababu hujajibu swali uliloulizwa.

Ambalo ni kuthibitisha uwepo wa mungu.

Unaweza kujibu swali la kuthibitisha uwepo wa mungu in a logically consistent way?

Kama unaweza naomba jibu hapa.

Asante.

I have summed up above posting.
Najuwa nilifanya kosa kwa mimi kiumbe kujaribu kukufahamisha wewe dubwasha.
Kiumbe na Dubwasha haviwezi kuelewa daima.

 

[Kiranga]

It proves that you know the answer might end your play and I may take this opportunity to exist from your play.
If only you had answered my question, I would know for sure you were really ignorant with the existence of God but the deliberately dodging the questio had relieved to me that you not such ignorant.

I am afraid the concept of "proof" escapes your feeble mind.

Nikikwambia momi ni mtu, then what?

 

[Kiranga]

I have summed up above posting.
Najuwa nilifanya kosa kwa mimi kiumbe kujaribu kukufahamisha wewe dubwasha.
Kiumbe na Dubwasha haviwezi kuelewa daima.

Kama kiumbe na dubwasha haviwezi kuelewa daima.

Na wewe kiumbe.

Na mimi dubwasha.

Itakuwaje weee kiumbe ugake kinielewesha mimi dibwasha ilhali wewe mwenyewe kwa maneno yako umetuambia "kiumbe na dubwasha haviwezi kuelewa daima"?

Hivi inaelewa hata unachoandika mwenyewe? Let alone ninachoandika mimi.

 

[DAKA MTUMBA]

Twende Taratibu.

Yesu ni mwana wa Mungu na ni Mungu.

Jesus aliexist mda mrefu sana before hata Mary kuwepo. Amejidhihirisha kwetu kupitia Mary. But haimanishi wanauhusian Mary na Jesus wapo kama mimi na Mama yangu.

Eti?YESU yule aliyekula michongoma ya mgongo kisha akatundikwa juu ni sir god na pia ni mwana wa sir god?so which is which?
ni mungu au ni mwana wa mungu?
then kama ni mungu why hakujiokoa na bakora?
kama ni mwana wa mungu jee huyo mungu alizaa na nani?

 

[egentle]

Eti?YESU yule aliyekula michongoma ya mgongo kisha akatundikwa juu ni sir god na pia ni mwana wa sir god?so which is which?
ni mungu au ni mwana wa mungu?
then kama ni mungu why hakujiokoa na bakora?
kama ni mwana wa mungu jee huyo mungu alizaa na nani?

Kapime akili kwanza.

 

[Ngekewa]

I am afraid the concept of "proof" escapes your feeble mind.

Nikikwambia momi ni mtu, then what?

Mtu ni jamii ya nini?

 

[Ngekewa]

Kama kiumbe na dubwasha haviwezi kuelewa daima.

Na wewe kiumbe.

Na mimi dubwasha.

Itakuwaje weee kiumbe ugake kinielewesha mimi dibwasha ilhali wewe mwenyewe kwa maneno yako umetuambia "kiumbe na dubwasha haviwezi kuelewa daima"?

Hivi inaelewa hata unachoandika mwenyewe? Let alone ninachoandika mimi.

Are you offended?
Mbona hivyo ndivyo inavyoonyesha kwani kiumbe nimeumbwa na Mungu nawe Dudesha hukuumbwa wala huna chanzo wala purpose. Unafikiri kweli tutafika pahala tukubaliane?

 

[Kiranga]

Mtu ni jamii ya nini?

Ya viumbe hai, where are you going with this apparently meaningless meandering?