Hapo Mwanzo Palikuwa Na Nini?!...science Vs divinity

Kuhani Mkuu said:

Pundit naona tuna tundika back to back ngoma zinafana almost neno kwa neno mtu wangu. At least Wanasayansi tuna sauti moja.

Kwenye imani kuna wa Shia, Katoliki, Suni, Assemblies of God, Baniani, Anglican, Mujaheeden, Lutheran, Buddha, Confusionism, Mormons, Hindu.....................

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kwenye imani waamini kuna Mungu, na ndivyo kama ilivyo kwenye principles za science. Katika sayansi pia kuna branches vile vile, za environment, ecology, medicine, physics, chemistry, enginering na branch za sayansi ambazo zina definition tofauti na principles tofauti pia.

Mama said:

kwenye imani waamini kuna Mungu, na ndivyo kama ilivyo kwenye principles za science. Katika sayansi pia kuna branches vile vile, za environment, ecology, medicine, physics, chemistry, enginering na branch za sayansi ambazo zina definition tofauti na principles tofauti pia.

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Pundit unamwona huyu Mama huyu? LOL!

Mama, nitajie principle moja ya Sayansi ambayo inapingwa na nyingine. Moja tu. Halafu tutayamaliza haya Mama.

Kwenye mi conflict ya principles za dini Mama wala tusiende tusije tukawaibua kina Maxshimba na Allah's Slave!

Sijui kina Invisible wamewapa "Pain Killers" masikini?

Ha haha aaaa

Kuhani Mkuu said:

Pundit naona tuna tundika ngoma zinafana back to back mtu wangu. At least Wanasayansi tuna sauti moja.

Kwenye imani kuna wa Shia, Katoliki, Suni, Assemblies of God, Baniani, Anglican, Mujaheeden, Lutheran, Buddha, Confusionism, Mormons, Hindu.....................

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KM, hayo uliyo orodhesha ni makanisa na dini... nadhani kikubwa tunachokizungumzia na nyie mnacho kizunguka kwa nguvu na hali ni kule kuamini Mungu.

Pale mwanasayansi anaposhindwa kuniambia mtu anakataje roho, ndipo hapo ninapojenga zaidi imani kwa Mungu. Pale mwanasayansi anaposhindwa kunielezea hapo mwanzo palikuwa na nini na jibu lake linabakia palikuwa na 'mwisho' au palikuwa na space and time... ndipo hapo imani yangu kwa Mungu inapojengeka zaidi. Vivyo hivo, pale mwanasayansi anaposhindwa kunielezea nini hasa kinafanya 'cot death' itokee au kwa nini kila mtu kuanzia mtoto mdogo hadi kikongwe anakuwa na au ana experience 'tunnel vision', ndipo hapo tena ninapoweka imani yangu kwa Mungu.

Hali nikiamini mambo ya continental drift, kuwepo kwa dinosaurs na jinsi vile atom huweza kuungana, bado kuna mengi ambayo miaka 800 itapita bila ya mwanasayansi kuweza kuyaelezea. Ni mengi na mengi, kikubwa mwanadamu kwa ujuzi wake, hekima yake, udadisi wake ambao umenyimwa au kushindwa kupatikana kwa wanyama na viumbe wengine na kumfanya yeye ajiite mwanasayansi; pale ashindwapo na kujua kuwa hana jibu bali nembo ya 'pending investigation' au 'proof', basi nami napata mwanya mzuri wa kumtanguliza Mungu katika mapungufu hayo.

SteveD.

Kuhani Mkuu said:

Pundit unamwona huyu Mama huyu? LOL!

Mama, nitajie principle moja ya Sayansi ambayo inapingwa na nyingine. Moja tu. Halafu tutayamaliza haya Mama.

Kwenye mi conflict ya principles za dini Mama wala tusiende tusije tukawaibua kina Maxshimba na Allah's Slave!

Sijui kina Invisible wamewapa "Pain Killers" masikini?

Ha haha aaaa

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ha ha ha wale ni hatari na kiboko, wanzidi mipaka,

naweza kukupa rahisi katika sayansi ya afya na nitasoma soma mabook nikupatie mifano mingi.

Kwa nini most of the principles za sayansi zinaaply only under some assumed constant conditions? tunajua dunia na environment is dynamic, why are these principles not dynamic also?

Katika envrionment kuna kitu kinaitwa denitrification which has to take place only in anaerobic environment? do you know that denitrification can also occur low oxygen environments? why because denitrification occurs by the will of God.

Well said Steve!

Binadamu wameumbwa kuwa wachunguzi na wadadisi.... tangu mwanzo walishaonesha uweza wao huo na kuuweka katika vitendo. Enzi za kale walianza kwa kupecheka vijiti na kupata moto, vivyo hivo kwenye moja ya maandiko matakatifu tumeona jinsi vile Mwenyezi Mungu alivyojuakuwa wanadamu hao hao aliowaumba watakuwa wadadisi, akawaonya..... hivyo kulingana na maandishi hayo, naamini hata Mwenyezi Mungu anajua matakwa ya viumbe vyake. Eva alikaidi na kula lile tunda......

katika sayansi kuna assumptions nyingi sana hufanyika ili kupata results ambayo wanasayansi wanaiona ni reasonable, chukulia mfano kitu kama "ideal gas" na "real gas", ideal gas hai exist lakini bado wanaibuka na kanuni na maequation kibao ya kikemia/kifizikia juu ya hizo gas ambazo wala haziexist, kuna temperature inaitwa absolute zero temperature(-273K) hiyo haijawahi kufikiwa lakini wanasayansi nao "wanaamini ipo hiyo",

kitu kingine ni kwamba derivation za kanuni nyingi za kifizikia huwa kuna assumption nyingi
sana kama alivyosema mama mara watasema "assume variable fulani is very small kiasi kwamba value yake inatend to zero!", au mara assume kitu fulani kina "approach to infinity!", kwa hiyo imi ninadhani kwamba kwa kufanya assumption hizo tu tayari unakuwa umeshaukwepa ukweli, kwa hiyo ni bora wanasayansi wasiclaim absolute truth katika mambo yao ya kisayansi, instead wangekuwa wakituambia kuwa theory fulani au law fulani ya kisayansi ina ukweli asilimia fulani na uwongo asilimia fulani kutokana na assumptions wanazokuwa wamezifanya ili kuformulate hizo theories na laws zao

gamba la nyoka said:

katika sayansi kuna assumptions nyingi sana hufanyika ili kupata results ambayo wanasayansi wanaiona ni reasonable, chukulia mfano kitu kama "ideal gas" na "real gas", ideal gas hai exist lakini bado wanaibuka na kanuni na maequation kibao ya kikemia/kifizikia juu ya hizo gas ambazo wala haziexist, kuna temperature inaitwa absolute zero temperature(-273K) hiyo haijawahi kufikiwa lakini wanasayansi nao "wanaamini ipo hiyo",

kitu kingine ni kwamba derivation za kanuni nyingi za kifizikia huwa kuna assumption nyingi
sana kama alivyosema mama mara watasema "assume variable fulani is very small kiasi kwamba value yake inatend to zero!", au mara assume kitu fulani kina "approach to infinity!", kwa hiyo imi ninadhani kwamba kwa kufanya assumption hizo tu tayari unakuwa umeshaukwepa ukweli, kwa hiyo ni bora wanasayansi wasiclaim absolute truth katika mambo yao ya kisayansi, instead wangekuwa wakituambia kuwa theory fulani au law fulani ya kisayansi ina ukweli asilimia fulani na uwongo asilimia fulani kutokana na assumptions wanazokuwa wamezifanya ili kuformulate hizo theories na laws zao

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Gamba, je assumption za wanadamu katika kutatua na kumudu yale yanayowazunguka ni sawa na assumption za kiroho/kiimani zinazolenga uwepo wao hapa duniani kama wanadamu?!

Leo kazi ipo kwenye dini. Hapo mwanzo palikuwa na Mungu. Akaumba vyote vilivyomo humu kwa siku sita, siku ya saba akaumba mwanadamu mwanamume.

gamba la nyoka said:

katika sayansi kuna assumptions nyingi sana hufanyika ili kupata results ambayo wanasayansi wanaiona ni reasonable, chukulia mfano kitu kama "ideal gas" na "real gas", ideal gas hai exist lakini bado wanaibuka na kanuni na maequation kibao ya kikemia/kifizikia juu ya hizo gas ambazo wala haziexist, kuna temperature inaitwa absolute zero temperature(-273K) hiyo haijawahi kufikiwa lakini wanasayansi nao "wanaamini ipo hiyo",

kitu kingine ni kwamba derivation za kanuni nyingi za kifizikia huwa kuna assumption nyingi
sana kama alivyosema mama mara watasema "assume variable fulani is very small kiasi kwamba value yake inatend to zero!", au mara assume kitu fulani kina "approach to infinity!", kwa hiyo imi ninadhani kwamba kwa kufanya assumption hizo tu tayari unakuwa umeshaukwepa ukweli, kwa hiyo ni bora wanasayansi wasiclaim absolute truth katika mambo yao ya kisayansi, instead wangekuwa wakituambia kuwa theory fulani au law fulani ya kisayansi ina ukweli asilimia fulani na uwongo asilimia fulani kutokana na assumptions wanazokuwa wamezifanya ili kuformulate hizo theories na laws zao

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The more you know, the more you know you don't know, until when you know you can't know, thats when you know it all.

Pundit said:

The more you know, the more you know you don't know, until when you know you can't know, thats when you know it all.

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Does this apply to atheists as well?!

SteveD said:

Does this apply to atheists as well?!

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To know is to know you don't know and to know you don't know is to know.

So I don't know.

Atheists are overly cocky, but since they claim to know that which is unknowable, they are bound to not know, agnostics by postponing to lay a claim on knowing or not knowing have a feel on reality, but nature abhorrs a vacuum and didn't the good book say god does not like the lukewarm? Didn't George Bush, the mighty one, proclaim you are either for us or against us, ancient Mesopotamia style, Persian Zoroastrian style, good vs evil style?

i dont know if I know or I dont know maan, and more than that I know that what I want to know is subject to the law ofwave-particle duality and the cosmic fate of the uncertainty principle.

There is nothing sure in this world,
There is nothing pure in this world,
Look for something left in this world, start again
It's a nice day for a White Wedding...
Billy Idol

Let me creep up on CERN and restrat the world by a touch of the button that will ignite a self propagating baby black hole.

Look, u got me going on like Im acid now, this thread is not good for my mental well being. I am out CYA LATA.

Pundit said:

To know is to know you don't know and to know you don't know is to know.

So I don't know.

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Okay, from these deductions and inferences, what is more potent - the ''non believing'' or the ''don't know?''

SteveD said:

Okay, from these deductions and inferences, what is more potent - the ''non believing'' or the ''don't know?''

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Look, u got me hooked like a script kiddie, back before I even had the chance to shutdown.

Comparing knowledge and belief is like comparing the proverbial apples to oranges, can be done, but hugely useless.

Im out for real now.

Pundit said:

Look, u got me hooked like a script kiddie, back before I even had the chance to shutdown.

Comparing knowledge and belief is like comparing the proverbial apples to oranges, can be done, but hugely useless.

Im out for real now.

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---naaah, not so fast sunshine, you gotta stay!

---you forgot!

---yes you can compare apples to oranges in many aspects and come up with something useful. For instance:

---what is their CO2 and O2 input and output respectively per day?
---what is their nutritional values if on-tree ripened or in-basket?
---etc, etc.
Doesn't this equate to scientific knowledge?

So, from above denial, are you really suggesting that non of the knowledge in scientific, politic and artistic endeavors has ever manifested itself from some kind of belief?

SteveD said:

---naaah, not so fast sunshine, you gotta stay!

---you forgot!

---yes you can compare apples to oranges in many aspects and come up with something useful. For instance:

---what is their CO2 and O2 input and output respectively per day?
---what is their nutritional values if on-tree ripened or in-basket?
---etc, etc.
Doesn't this equate to scientific knowledge?

So, from above denial, are you really suggesting that non of the knowledge in scientific, politic and artistic endeavors has ever manifested itself from some kind of belief?

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My point is, for a comparison to be meaningful, it has to be comparing likes.In your above example you are not comparing apples to oranges, you are comparing their CO2 input (they do not output CO2 I understand).So you will still be comparing likes.

I thought you were going to tell me how to compare miles to kilograms, strictly speaking, that miles are equal to kilograms in an absolute way that o.5 equals 1/2.

What am I talking about, absolutes after saying all that I said?

Pundit said:

My point is, for a comparison to be meaningful, it has to be comparing likes.In your above example you are not comparing apples to oranges, you are comparing their CO2 input (they do not output CO2 I understand).So you will still be comparing likes.

I thought you were going to tell me how to compare miles to kilograms, strictly speaking, that miles are equal to kilograms in an absolute way that o.5 equals 1/2.

What am I talking about, absolutes after saying all that I said?

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.....cause you believe in something but you don't know that you believe in it. until you know that you believe in it, you don't know!!!

SteveD said:

.....cause you believe in something but you don't know that you believe in it. until you know that you believe in it, you don't know!!!

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I don't believe, I know or I don't know.

And I may not know much, but I know when a falsehood is propagated (like the being of a godhead)

Okay, fair enough.
I'll try this approach:

Pundit, pls watch this one, thanx.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0HKViNSKD0[/media]

SteveD said:

Okay, fair enough.
I'll try this approach:

Pundit, pls watch this one, thanx.

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Beautiful!!!! that is a very gifted child. Where can i find that song/album? Some please tell me.
Some of my co-workers who watched the video with me were very impressed.
She is truly blessed. Praise God. Amen.