Did CHADEMA fumble on securing Presidential Votes?


Rev. Kishoka

Rev. Kishoka

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Is it possible out of excitement of Wabunge and Madiwani that Chadema loosened its focus to make sure that all presidential votes were counted and secured?

Instead of Mguu Sawa, they all became Mguu Pande Mwili legeza? Then CCM wakachakachua kiulaini?
 
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Rev Kishoka,

Nadhani Chadema hawakutoa training kwa mawakala wake concern what need to be done. Nilikuwa nategemea Chadema wangeweka situation room in Dar es salaam ambayo ingekuwa na advance equipment. Hii room ingekuwa inapotekea matokeo kutoka kila kituo moja kwa moja. Hili lingesababisha uraisi wa kukusanya matokeo na ugumu wa Kuchakachua.
 
Rev. Kishoka

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Rev Kishoka,

Nadhani Chadema hawakutoa training kwa mawakala wake concern what need to be done. Nilikuwa nategemea Chadema wangeweka situation room in Dar es salaam ambayo ingekuwa na advance equipment. Hii room ingekuwa inapotekea matokeo kutoka kila kituo moja kwa moja. Hili lingesababisha uraisi wa kukusanya matokeo na ugumu wa Kuchakachua.
Then who needs to bear responsibility and be accountable for this kind of gross negligence?
 
Jatropha

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Is it possible out of excitement of Wabunge and Madiwani that Chadema loosened its focus to make sure that all presidential votes were counted and secured?

Instead of Mguu Sawa, they all became Mguu Pande Mwili legeza? Then CCM wakachakachua kiulaini?
Rev Kishoka:I recall from the contents of your pre-election period, I had predicted as my contribution that your ambition was seeking post-election recognition through such statements as "I had said, I had warned, I had advised etc".

Despite of your clever
structuring of your thread it is vividly evident that you are leading us to that road. Therefore I will appreciate if you will start by describing to us of how you personally took part in bringing victory to CHADEMA in any area of your residence, industrial area, area of frequency etc as a CHADEMA voter, campigner, agent, volunteer etc.

You will recall that the positive contribution of all of us was called for in order to bring victory change seekers in Tanzania rather than relinquishing the task to CHADEMA leaders only.

This will enable us contribute positively more freely rather than being netted by post-election recognition seekrs.
 
Rev. Kishoka

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Rev Kishoka:I recall from the contents of your pre-election period, I had predicted as my contribution that your ambition was seeking post-election recognition through such statements as "I had said, I had warned, I had advised etc".

Despite of your clever structuring of your thread it is vividly evident that you are leading us to that road. Therefore I will appreciate if you will start by describing to us of how you personally took part in bringing victory to CHADEMA in any area of your residence, industrial area, area of frequency etc as a CHADEMA voter, campigner, agent, volunteer etc.

You will recall that the positive contribution of all of us was called for in order to bring victory change seekers in Tanzania rather than relinquishing the task to CHADEMA leaders only.

This will enable us contribute positively more freely rather than being netted by post-election recognition seekrs.
Jatropha,


If my call before election was ignored (which infact started 2006), don't you think there is a validity to question why Chadema failed while there was a free advice to them on strategizing? Is it a shameful admission of lack of proper strategy or regrets for not hearing those other voices?

If the leadership is deaf and is not willing to hear a free voice like mine, how can they hear the voices of the masses and understand what does the mass want? Then it makes the oped by Bagenda to be valid, that Chadema is preaching what it wants tfor Tanzania to hear and not what Tanzanians want.

Do not label Rev. to be a bad soothsayer. If the leadership would have been inclusive and not alpha male character of believing their ideas are omnipotent, then when I wrote in 2006 CHADEMA must reform, they could have made an effort to realize that they have to be open minded.

Same thing with my call for a new reform of Chadema with Dr. Slaa as party Chairman, I am sure it will face opposition and it will be ignored.

My contribution to the nations and to the benefit of Chadema, does not require for me to be in the streets, or wards. Asd I have stated before in many times, if I were to criticise Kikwete, there is a jubilation from your keen, however when I change the tide and question the methods of Chadema, there is always a call for my head as you all labeled me Fisadi and Msaliti.

As far as is to my direct involvement with Chadema, go back to the leadership and campaign teams and ask them if I had involvement or not.
 
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Jatropha,


If my call before election was ignored (which infact started 2006), don't you think there is a validity to question why Chadema failed while there was a free advice to them on strategizing? Is it a shameful admission of lack of proper strategy or regrets for not hearing those other voices?
Toa mwongozo bana! uchaguzi ushakwisha...kama ni blunder tayari ishafanyika. Watu wa dizaini yako huwa siwapendi sana ....sababu ni watu ambao mnajua jambo na badala ya ku-push ili liwe implemented mnakaa nje mkisubiri washindwe then mnajitokeza kutafuta popularity!
 
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Is it possible out of excitement of Wabunge and Madiwani that Chadema loosened its focus to make sure that all presidential votes were counted and secured?

Instead of Mguu Sawa, they all became Mguu Pande Mwili legeza? Then CCM wakachakachua kiulaini?
Muda mwingine mie huwwa nataka kulia tu. Yaani wengine hatukulala siku tatu mfululizo tukijitahidi kulinda kura na kufanya kila liwezekanalo kura zisiibiwe tukishirikiana na askari leo (ambao wengi walitaka mageuzi) leo linakuja lijitu sijui kutoka wapi uko na kuweka bandiko kienyeji namna hii bila ya kutafakari inauma sana!
 
Rev. Kishoka

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Muda mwingine mie huwwa nataka kulia tu. Yaani wengine hatukulala siku tatu mfululizo tukijitahidi kulinda kura na kufanya kila liwezekanalo kura zisiibiwe tukishirikiana na askari leo (ambao wengi walitaka mageuzi) leo linakuja lijitu sijui kutoka wapi uko na kuweka bandiko kienyeji namna hii bila ya kutafakari inauma sana!
Shalom my dear Comrade,

Yes Lijitu linakuja kuuliza maswali magumu ambayo hatutaki kusikia. Ni bandiko la kienyeji maana ulilinda boksi moja ukaachia maboksi kumi yakiwa hayana ulinzi....
 
Jatropha

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Jatropha,


If my call before election was ignored (which infact started 2006), don't you think there is a validity to question why Chadema failed while there was a free advice to them on strategizing? Is it a shameful admission of lack of proper strategy or regrets for not hearing those other voices?
IF AT ALL YOU HAD ANY POSITIVE SUGGESTIONS, CONTRIBUTION VICTRY BRINGING STRATEGIES AS YOU CLAIM SINCE 2006, WHY NOT ASPIRE FOR LEADERSHIP POSITIONS WITHIN CHADEMA AS PER ITS CONSTITUTION? BE ADVISED THAT LIKE ANY CREDIBLE ORGANISATION CHADEMA HAS ITS OWN RULES AND REGULATIONS, AND WAY OF DOING THINGS INCLUDING RECEIVING AND DISSEMINATING PARTY INFORMATION.

CHADEMA JUST LIKE ANY PUBLIC ORGANISATION HAS PASSED THE FOLLOWING STAGES:- (i) ONE OR TWO INITIATE THE IDEA OF STARTING THE ORGANISATION, (ii) VERY FEW TAKE PART IN FORMING THE ORGANISATION, (iii) FEW PARTICIPATE IN MAKING THE ORGANISATION A REALITY. (iv) AFTER IT HAS BECOME A REALITY MANY NOW FLOCK IN TO SEEK ASSOCIATION, ALLAINCE, PARTNERSHIP ETC WITH A PERFORMING ENTITY LIKE CHADEMA.
TO ME I SEE THAT SINCE 2006, YOU HAD THE OPPORTUNITY OF BEING IN THE FIRST THREE STAGES BUT YOU DID NOT SEIZE THE OPPORTUNITY WELL IN ADVANCE. MAYBE PERHAPS BY BEING A TROUBLE MAKER AS YOU ARE NOW TRYING TO POTRAY.
 
Rev. Kishoka

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Toa mwongozo bana! uchaguzi ushakwisha...kama ni blunder tayari ishafanyika. Watu wa dizaini yako huwa siwapendi sana ....sababu ni watu ambao mnajua jambo na badala ya ku-push ili liwe implemented mnakaa nje mkisubiri washindwe then mnajitokeza kutafuta popularity!
Yakhe wala usinichukie, maana kama sikutoa mwongozo au kushauri watu wajikite TAMISEMI 22009 ili kuwa na watendaji wengi katika kila wilaya na kuhakikisha hakuna kuzidiana maarifa na uchakachuaji, nisingehoji tena na tena ilikuwaje.

That is why to my amazement Hai na Kigoma Vijijini kura za Urais tofauti ni ndogo sana huku kura za Ubunge tofauti ni kubwa sana!
 
Rev. Kishoka

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IF AT ALL YOU HAD ANY POSITIVE SUGGESTIONS, CONTRIBUTION VICTRY BRINGING STRATEGIES AS YOU CLAIM SINCE 2006, WHY NOT ASPIRE FOR LEADERSHIP POSITIONS WITHIN CHADEMA AS PER ITS CONSTITUTION? BE ADVISED THAT LIKE ANY CREDIBLE ORGANISATION CHADEMA HAS ITS OWN RULES AND REGULATIONS, AND WAY OF DOING THINGS INCLUDING RECEIVING AND DISSEMINATING PARTY INFORMATION.

CHADEMA JUST LIKE ANY PUBLIC ORGANISATION HAS PASSED THE FOLLOWING STAGES:- (i) ONE OR TWO INITIATE THE IDEA OF STARTING THE ORGANISATION, (ii) VERY FEW TAKE PART IN FORMING THE ORGANISATION, (iii) FEW PARTICIPATE IN MAKING THE ORGANISATION A REALITY. (iv) AFTER IT HAS BECOME A REALITY MANY NOW FLOCK IN TO SEEK ASSOCIATION, ALLAINCE, PARTNERSHIP ETC WITH A PERFORMING ENTITY LIKE CHADEMA.
TO ME I SEE THAT SINCE 2006, YOU HAD THE OPPORTUNITY OF BEING IN THE FIRST THREE STAGES BUT YOU DID NOT SEIZE THE OPPORTUNITY WELL IN ADVANCE. MAYBE PERHAPS BY BEING A TROUBLE MAKER AS YOU ARE NOW TRYING TO POTRAY.
Jatropha,

Have you ever wondered why skillful Politicians like Paulo Sozigwa, Peter Kisumo or even Kingunge were behind the scenes like David Axelrod, Karl Rove, Donna Brazile or James Carvile?

If you can answer that, then you have your answer on why even Mzee Mwanakijiji is not a party leader but a political analyst!
 
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Is it possible out of excitement of Wabunge and Madiwani that Chadema loosened its focus to make sure that all presidential votes were counted and secured?

Instead of Mguu Sawa, they all became Mguu Pande Mwili legeza? Then CCM wakachakachua kiulaini?
Not really. This Government and all its organs were out to make sure that the incumbent stays in power and they had all the machinery in their disposal to achieve that. Hata kama CHADEMA wangekuwa mguu sawa bado kwa huu utaratibu wa matokeo kutumwa na wakurugenzi wa miji na wilaya kwenda kwa Jaji Lewis Makame ulitoa mwanya wa kuchakachua ambao CHADEMA hawangeweza kuudhibiti.

Mimi huwa najiuliza kwa nini matokeo yakishatangazwa kwenye kituo cha kupiga kura yasiwe ndiyo final na kila mdau awe huru kuyachukua na kutangaza? Hii ni tofauti na huu utaratibu wa kuzuia matangazo mpaka wasimamizi wa uchaguzi na watu wa Tume ya uchaguzi waamue kutangaza matokeo wananyoyataka wao? Kama kuna mgombea ana wasiwasi wa matangazo aruhusiwe kwenda mahakamani ambao ndiyo wataamua kama yahesabiwe upya au la.
 
Jatropha

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Jatropha,

Have you ever wondered why skillful Politicians like Paulo Sozigwa, Peter Kisumo or even Kingunge were behind the scenes like David Axelrod, Karl Rove, Donna Brazile or James Carvile?

If you can answer that, then you have your answer on why even Mzee Mwanakijiji is not a party leader but a political analyst!
The three Paulo Sozigwa, Peter Kisumo or even Kingunge have never have been behind the senes, on the contrary they have been in the forefront of Tanzania politics from independence by seving in TANU and CCM in diffeent capcitiesup to the CCM's Central Committe untiul their retirement . Even after retirement they have on numerous occasions poked their noses in favour of CCM and personal enrichment. Is that you being behind the scenes?

Mwanakijiji is a
realist political analyst, rather than analysts trying to cut and paste USA situations to TZ. That is impossible. As much as we value your contributions, it has to be raelistic. Mwanakijiji's realism went to the extent of discouraging negative remarks of rampoant vote rigging in Tanzania that was very much distructive to the opposition through discouraging maojority Tanzanians from going to vote in fear of vote rigging. Despite of stiff resistence he persuaded his way into moajority of us senses.

Can you also do the same with vivid examples, not that of as tarming
Paulo Sozigwa, Peter Kisumo or even Kingunge as being behind the scenes.
 
Jatropha

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not really. This government and all its organs were out to make sure that the incumbent stays in power and they had all the machinery in their disposal to achieve that. Hata kama chadema wangekuwa mguu sawa bado kwa huu utaratibu wa matokeo kutumwa na wakurugenzi wa miji na wilaya kwenda kwa jaji lewis makame ulitoa mwanya wa kuchakachua ambao chadema hawangeweza kuudhibiti.

Mimi huwa najiuliza kwa nini matokeo yakishatangazwa kwenye kituo cha kupiga kura yasiwe ndiyo final na kila mdau awe huru kuyachukua na kutangaza? Hii ni tofauti na huu utaratibu wa kuzuia matangazo mpaka wasimamizi wa uchaguzi na watu wa tume ya uchaguzi waamue kutangaza matokeo wananyoyataka wao? Kama kuna mgombea ana wasiwasi wa matangazo aruhusiwe kwenda mahakamani ambao ndiyo wataamua kama yahesabiwe upya au la.
acha nae huyu tokea kabala ya kupigwa kwa kura mada zake zililenge kujijengea umaarufu kwa kukosoa badala ya kushiriki kurekebisha mapungufu yaliyopo. Mimi na umri wangu wa miaka 45 nilikuwa sijawahi kushiriki katika mcahakato wa uchguzi kwa maana ya zaidi ya kupiga kura. Lakini baada ya vuguvugu la mabadiliko nimeshiriki mwaka huu, na ninaahidi moja ya kazi niliazimia kuifanya kabla mungu hajaniitia ni kushawishi mabadiliko makubwa ya mfumo wetu wa kupiga kura kwa kuwa ni wizi mtupu kwa nia ya kulinda watawala.
 
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Rev Kishoka,

Nadhani Chadema hawakutoa training kwa mawakala wake concern what need to be done. Nilikuwa nategemea Chadema wangeweka situation room in Dar es salaam ambayo ingekuwa na advance equipment. Hii room ingekuwa inapotekea matokeo kutoka kila kituo moja kwa moja. Hili lingesababisha uraisi wa kukusanya matokeo na ugumu wa Kuchakachua.
Mimi nilikuwa mmoja wa mawakala wa CHADEMA mafunzo tulipata sana tu ila ninasho hisi ilikuwa kuwa kila jimbo na mipagilio yao yaani kivyao so ilitengemea na jimbo wamejipanga vipi mfano hapa Arusha CHadema walikuwa majipanga ukitoa mapungufu madomado mpaka tuka fanikiwa kwa sehemu kubwa yaani madiwa wakutosha na mubunge
 
Shalom

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Shalom my dear Comrade,

Yes Lijitu linakuja kuuliza maswali magumu ambayo hatutaki kusikia. Ni bandiko la kienyeji maana ulilinda boksi moja ukaachia maboksi kumi yakiwa hayana ulinzi....
Rev,

Wakati mwingine huwa unauzi sana. Haya maneno ndiyo unaniambia live siku ya alhamisi Asubuhi baada ya uchaguzi na hatujalala siku kadhaa tunalinda kura hata uwe kama goliati naondoka na wewe. Tatizo sijui uko wapi ndugu yangu maana inabidi tukusamehe tu kama alivyosema Yesu unaweza kuwa hujui ulisemalo. Kazi tumeifanya ndugu yangu tunastahili hata pongez kidogo. Chukua mfano kwenye jimbo letu kupata vijana 850 wa kuwa mawakala wa bila kuwalipa kitu chochote kile na kazi wakafanya ya kutosha unadhani hii ni kazi ndogo.

Rev endelea tu kutukatisha tamaa ila nakuambia kuwa huu moto hamtaweza kuuzima. Eti tumelinda box moja na kuacha mengine kumi we aya we!
 
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Rev,

Wakati mwingine huwa unauzi sana. Haya maneno ndiyo unaniambia live siku ya alhamisi Asubuhi baada ya uchaguzi na hatujalala siku kadhaa tunalinda kura hata uwe kama goliati naondoka na wewe. Tatizo sijui uko wapi ndugu yangu maana inabidi tukusamehe tu kama alivyosema Yesu unaweza kuwa hujui ulisemalo. Kazi tumeifanya ndugu yangu tunastahili hata pongez kidogo. Chukua mfano kwenye jimbo letu kupata vijana 850 wa kuwa mawakala wa bila kuwalipa kitu chochote kile na kazi wakafanya ya kutosha unadhani hii ni kazi ndogo.

Rev endelea tu kutukatisha tamaa ila nakuambia kuwa huu moto hamtaweza kuuzima. Eti tumelinda box moja na kuacha mengine kumi we aya we!
ili kuonyesha watu wanauchungu na nchi yao Arusha watu walijitolea yaani bure mpaka wakazidi
 
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Mi nishawahi kuwa wakala wa mgombea ubunge 2005 (alishindwa) na pia mwaka huu nilikuwa katika timu yake huyo mgombea kuratibu mawakala (ameshinda this time!)

Katika hali ya kawaida kabisa ni ngumu sana kupata mawakala waaminifu! Wengi wa wale tunaowaona kuwa ni makini (wapo wachache) wanakuwa busy sana na mambo yao na siku ya uchaguzi huwezi kuwapata washinde vituoni asubuhi mpaka jioni.

Pili ukipata watu makini mara nyingi watakubali kukaa kituoni mpaka jioni lakini ikitokea tatizo hawajitolei kukesha kulinda kura zisichakachuliwe. Hili ni tatizo. Kwa hiyo katika hali kama hii inabidi ujaribu kuwaamini wale utakakaowapata. Na katika hili kuna wale ambao CCM wakiwajua wanawahonga hela na siku ya uchaguzi hawatokei kituoni (wakati walishaapishwa na kupewa barua za utambulisho na kupangwa kituo!) na wengine kwa bahati nzuri wanakuwa waaminifu na kufanya kazi yao kwa umakini mpaka mwisho.

Lakini jambo lingine la kuongezea hapa ni kuwa mawakala wengi wa upinzani wanakuwa ni watu wa kujitolea (na tukiri volunteers sio wengi sana kulingana na mahitaji) kwa sababu hata posho za uwakala wanazopewa (wakati mwingine hawana posho) ni ndogo sana ukilinganisha na zile za wenzao CCM! Na hili linaweza kutokana na kuwa vyama vingi vya upinzani vina matatizo ya fedha (ruzuku ndogo au hakuna kabisa!) na hivyo uwezo wao wa kulipa posho mawakala ni mdogo sana au hata utaratibu wa kuwaratibu mawakala unakuwa sio mzuri kwa kukosa rasilimali watu, fedha na vitu pia kama magari n.k.

Hivyo tu itoshe kusema kuwa bila kuwa na rasilimali fedha ya kutosha pamoja na timu nzuri ya watu basi kazi ya kusimamia zoezi la uchaguzi, kuratibu mawakala na kukusanya matokeo vituoni pamoja na kufanya majumuhisho ya ndani inakuwa ngumu sana wakuu wangu! Kwa hili inabidi kujipanga sana..
 
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Mi nishawahi kuwa wakala wa mgombea ubunge 2005 (alishindwa) na pia mwaka huu nilikuwa katika timu yake huyo mgombea kuratibu mawakala (ameshinda this time!)

Katika hali ya kawaida kabisa ni ngumu sana kupata mawakala waaminifu! Wengi wa wale tunaowaona kuwa ni makini (wapo wachache) wanakuwa busy sana na mambo yao na siku ya uchaguzi huwezi kuwapata washinde vituoni asubuhi mpaka jioni.

Pili ukipata watu makini mara nyingi watakubali kukaa kituoni mpaka jioni lakini ikitokea tatizo hawajitolei kukesha kulinda kura zisichakachuliwe. Hili ni tatizo. Kwa hiyo katika hali kama hii inabidi ujaribu kuwaamini wale utakakaowapata. Na katika hili kuna wale ambao CCM wakiwajua wanawahonga hela na siku ya uchaguzi hawatokei kituoni (wakati walishaapishwa na kupewa barua za utambulisho na kupangwa kituo!) na wengine kwa bahati nzuri wanakuwa waaminifu na kufanya kazi yao kwa umakini mpaka mwisho.

Lakini jambo lingine la kuongezea hapa ni kuwa mawakala wengi wa upinzani wanakuwa ni watu wa kujitolea (na tukiri volunteers sio wengi sana kulingana na mahitaji) kwa sababu hata posho za uwakala wanazopewa (wakati mwingine hawana posho) ni ndogo sana ukilinganisha na zile za wenzao CCM! Na hili linaweza kutokana na kuwa vyama vingi vya upinzani vina matatizo ya fedha (ruzuku ndogo au hakuna kabisa!) na hivyo uwezo wao wa kulipa posho mawakala ni mdogo sana au hata utaratibu wa kuwaratibu mawakala unakuwa sio mzuri kwa kukosa rasilimali watu, fedha na vitu pia kama magari n.k.

Hivyo tu itoshe kusema kuwa bila kuwa na rasilimali fedha ya kutosha pamoja na timu nzuri ya watu basi kazi ya kusimamia zoezi la uchaguzi, kuratibu mawakala na kukusanya matokeo vituoni pamoja na kufanya majumuhisho ya ndani inakuwa ngumu sana wakuu wangu! Kwa hili inabidi kujipanga sana..
Mkuu Pongezi sana, achana na watu wanaokaa pembeni kutafuta umaarufu! utamu wa ngoma uingie mwenyewe ucheze ndo unaweza ku-comment baade. Hana strategies yeyote huyo
 
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N

Nikupateje

JF-Expert Member
Joined Dec 22, 2009
1,314 109 160
Wakubwa,

Mimi sikulaumu CHADEMA pekee yake kama anavyofanya mchungaji. Nililaumu kila mmoja wetu kwa kusubiri jumla ya kura za kila kituo katika jimboni zijumlishwe na Tume. Eti tume inatujumlishia na sisi tunasubiri kama ndiyo imejaza maprofessa hesabu rahisi za kujumlisha. Hesabu ya darasa la pili.

Kosa ambalo limetokea tena jana kwenye jimbo la Mpanda Mjini tukaishia kupata kura za vituo 19 humu JF lakini vingine 9 vilivyobaki hadi sasa hakuna mwenye habari navyo eti kila mmoja amejikita kushangilia CHADEMA kushinda jimbo la Mpanda Mjini huku kukiwa na lugha tofauti kuhusu kura za ushindi.

Mwingine anasema tofauti ya jana ni kura 60, mwingine 606. Baadhi yao ni mtu kama Kitila Mkumbo ambao tulitegemea wakazie ziletwe idadi zingine za kura za kila kituo katika vile 9 vilivyobaki.

Nilionya siku zile na jana nikarudia tena kuwa, hata 2015 tusipokazania wote kujua kura za kituo kwa kituo za nchi nzima basi msitegemee CHADEMA ivuke hata 35% kwenye kura za urais kama kazi hiyo rahisi tutaichia Tume.

Tutaishia kutunga thread nyingi za kunung'unika, kulalamika, kukejeli, kutukana lakini ushindi utaenda CCM na sisi tutajikunyata tu.

Naomba mrudie kunisoma kwa makini kwenye thread yangu hii hapa:

{https://www.jamiiforums.com/uchaguzi-tanzania-2010/85625-uvivu-wetu-umeiangusha-chadema.html}
 

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