HITIMISHO
Najua mjadala ni mrefu!
Summaries zitatusadia kwani finally we have to postulate AZIMIO LA ARUSHA in a way it fits our modem times and We wish the other side do the same come out with something which YOU think can substitute/compliment the New Azimio!
We have had this discussion when it was Jambo Forums and many more times in Jamii forums, this time We have to produce working document, not mare discussion ... YES We have mjadala kwa Katiba Mpya and here we are starting Mjada kwa Azimio la Arusha JIPYA!!
Kobello,Wrong!!!!!!! Kwa mfano, falsafa ya nguvu ya umma na itikadi ya mlengo wa kati. Nguvu ya umma is not a philosophy!!, you have to explain to us people's power in what? How are you going to invest power to the people? Under what philosophy and how did you come up with such a philosophy? Ndiyo maana nasema CDM huwa hawaeleweki unless uwe si mtu makini.
...Isn't that great!Have you lived there? I lived in Sweden some years ago, and I can tell you that they pay a hell of taxes. In addition, they are very liberal. For example, the prime minister of Sweden can't impose his will upon majority because he or she is educated. They understand human rights and freedom to choose.
People's power can never be achieved through a centist ideology. Peoples power can be achieved by a socialist ideology.Kobello,
...Hawaeleki kwa nani? Unajua, wasomi wana complications kibao, kila kitu lazima ki fit category au definition fulani. Well, in reality not always.
...Let me be clear here. I don't believe in cdm -i mean, seriously- and for that case even ccm, but, baniani mbaya kiatu chake dawa. But, we will have to see, if ppls power will become a philosophy. I doubt it may, not b'se of cdm, but b'se of the current wave of change around the world -been influenced by the youth and some informed elders- taking into account the likes of "the arab spring" and the "occupy" movements.
...Dead wrong (Lissu, 2011). How can a "not socialist citizenry" elect into office a socialist one?The political party that has dominated the Swedish politics is a socialist party, but the country itself isn't.
Naona kidhungu kinapiga chenga kidogo!Kobello embu jisome kwanza mwenyewe, kabla ya jibu langu maana nyie washabiki wa hili AA mmekazana na kuwaambia wenzenu hawalifahamu halafu wenyewe kila saa mnaji-contradict na implemention za AA. Chini hapa mnasema misingi ilikuwa ni kujikomboa na soko la dunia.
That's been known from day one, ila kutokana na blocks za kisiasa, kuna mataifa yalikuwa yanabania trade between them na sisi. Hii hata Zimbabwe inafanyiwa hivohivyo.Halafu hapa tena unasema (tatizo kubwa) ni hao hao wasimamizi wa soko la dunia waliwatema, mkuu mi naanza kuona hili AA kwako lipo kiimani zaidi kuliko ukweli wenyewe kwenye implemention. Maana ni kitu ambacho ni impossible kwenye dunia ya sasa, kufanya economical activities bila ya external trade.
Maana amna hata sababu za kwenda kuchambua the challenges of production efficiency kwenye hili Azimio Uchwara, hili kuweza kuja kuelezana matatizo ya mistari ya kununua bidhaa na upungufu wa bidhaa yalipoanzia na huko ndio mimi sikupendi kabisa kuhusu hili Azimio.
Inabidi watetezi sasa mje na ubishi imara lakini si hizi hadithi za maandishi embu mjadala ueleke kisayansi na si haya mambo ya utu.
...Kwahiyo, your argument is, cdm is a socialist lot. Not? Inaweza kuwa sahihi maana, unakumbuka Mh. Slaa alikuwa akiahidi mambo mengi ambayo ni socialist in nature? I would argue kwamba, waTanzania wengi -i've said this before- ni wa socialist.People's power can never be achieved through a centist ideology. Peoples power can be achieved by a socialist ideology.
...Is philosophy that much restricted? Hey, i'm just wondering!Arab spring and occupy movements are people-driven movements, they are not party-based.
...Seconded!on bold is where you are wrong mkuu, in developed countries never started as liberals they are what they are today by working very hard and it was by force to work hard and is was national rule to work hard. there after it when the became liberals. so as we did though it was not succesful to us as it did to others you know the reasons and there are so many. to a country like ours liberalism and what you call choices are the most enermy of our development.people need to be controled so that later we all enjoy national cake. freedom,democracy , human rights and all things of their kind work better in developed countries not developing. in the name of freedom of choice people decide not work, not to protect national resources and do what they feel likedoing. taifa pasipo miongozo yenye nguvu limepotea,
Nope! those movements had the goal of revolting against the status quo, not trying to put some kind of ideologogue in to power, two different things hommie!...Is philosophy that much restricted? Hey, i'm just wondering!
...This is what brings me back to jf. Kudos!Simply put, the triumph of capitalism left Tanzania or for that matter many countries which has spent considerable amount of time denouncing the west unprepared. In Tanzania those who support Ujamaa have everything at their disposal such as school of thought and institutions. But they don't have courage and guts. On other hand those who support the right (capitalism) don't have school of thought, institutions, and ideas. They want to be part of something they don't know.
...So, are you saying, philosophy = ideology? I know they are fighting the status quo, but, ni kitu gani kinazaa philosophy? sio vitu kama hivi?Nope! those movements had the goal of revolting against the status quo, not trying to put some kind of ideologogue in to power, two different things hommie!
You know, Africans can adopt a Marxist philosophy, or Indians and Nepalese people (some, of course) want to adopt a Maoist philosophy,or the French with a Nationalist Philosophy (Anti-immigration).Or we can come up with our own philosophy, like AD and the philosophy of African Socialism....So, are you saying, philosophy = ideology? I know they are fighting the status quo, but, ni kitu gani kinazaa philosophy? sio vitu kama hivi?
...I doubt, the occupy movement is turning into some kind of an ideology, but, guided with some philosophical observations.
You know, Africans can adopt a Marxist philosophy, or Indians and Nepalese people (some, of course) want to adopt a Maoist philosophy,or the French with a Nationalist Philosophy (Anti-immigration).Or we can come up with our own philosophy, like AD and the philosophy of African Socialism.
So, a movement can be based on one philosophy, which creates ideology or can be from individuals of different philosophies but have one goal like They can be socialists and capitalists fighting against a Monarchy or Fascism.And after a democratic election, the faction with most vote can form the government, like the Muslim Brotherhood.You don't have to come up with your own philosophy, you can adopt a well known philosophy and just fine-tune it to fit your environment.
Azimio never failed!!- We tried in Azimio and failed miserably!
William.
...Dead wrong (Lissu, 2011). How can a "not socialist citizenry" elect into office a socialist one?
...Socialists ninaoongelea hapa si wale wa USSR, Eastern Europe -ya enzi zile- na Cuba, bali ni "french kind", ambao kimsingi wana socialistic ideals lakini mfumo wao ni mchanganyiko wa ubepari na usoshalisti na uliberali, if you may.I am not dead wrong. Am I? In realpolitik, its not an anomaly for non-socialists to elect a socialist government. This is particular true in Western European countries where political parties are rather coalitions representing arrays of issues. So we shouldnt view socialists in Sweden through the lens of Eastern Europe socialism or for that matter Ujamaa.
...Nakubaliana na wewe. Kwa maana ya kwamba, kiukweli, wanadamu wengi au jamii nyingi kwa maana hiyo, ni socialistic in nature. Ndiyo maana hao jamaa wameweza kuendelea kuchaguliwa. Na ukiangalia sababu kuu ni kwamba, simply watu wameendelea kuwa na uhakika wa maisha mazuri chini ya uongozi wao.Furthermore, we can describe winning and losing election process using a carrot and stick metaphor. When politicians or political parties perform better, voters reward them with a carrot. When they dont, voters use the stick to punish them. I believe this is the situation in Sweden. There the socialists have run the government successfully, and have been rewarded with a series of electoral carrots. Nevertheless, their victories dont mean that Sweden is a socialist country or socialists elsewhere can run their respective countries efficiently.
...Unafikiri ni kwani nini ccm is been punished? Ni kwasababu imepotea na kutoka nje ya ideals zake kama chama cha wananchi -wakulima na wafanyakazi- na kuwa chama cha wachache wenye kujali maslahi binafsi, bila kujali maendeleo ya nchi kwa ujumla. Kumbuka, themes za cdm zimekuwa ni pro wananchi, what do you expect? Infact, ni socialist in nature.Now with regard to Tanzania, the carrot and stick metaphor has been at work in recent years. Take for instance the ascendancy of CHADEMA. This ascendancy isnt based on ideology, but rather on the poor performance of CCM. Voters are punishing CCM and rewarding CHADEMA, but that doesnt mean they reject what CCM stand for or embrace CDM.
...Uelewa mdogo ndio tatizo. Katika nchi ambazo wananchi wana uelewa, issues ndio zina carry weight, kama ufaransa na immigration hivi sasa.Apart from what I have described above, there is another reason why people elect people who seem to have opposing ideas into offices. In many countries, majority of citizens arent affiliated with any political parties or ideologies. As such, they are susceptible to political baits and promises. Take for example blacks in the US. Many in black communities vote for particular candidates because their pastors have told them to do so. Similarly in Tanzania, power brokers in village used to people whom they should elect into office.
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[TD="class: buttonheading, align: right"]Govt has stake in Airtel Tanzania
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[TD="class: createdate"] Monday, 16 April 2012 22:19 [/TD]
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[TD] By Daniel Msangya The Citizen Correspondent
Dodoma. The government has acquired a 40 per cent stake in Airtel Tanzania Limited which had changed name from Zain Tanzania while Celtel Tanzania BV owns 60 per cent of all shares, the National Assembly was told here yesterday.
According to the deputy minister for Communication, Science and Technology, Mr Charles Kitwanga, Celtel Tanzania BV is affiliated to Zain Africa BV which was acquired by Bharti Airtel International (Netherlands) in November 2010.
He said the Bharti company did not purchase government invested shares instead it procured them from Celtel Tanzania BV one of the share holders in the Zain Tanzania well known as Zain Africa BV officially registered in the Netherlands.
Mr Kitwange said when the right time comes, Tanzanians will be mobilised to buy shares under special guidelines adhering to laws and principles to allow peoples participation in economic growth by purchasing shares in Airtel Tanzania.
The deputy minister was responding to a question by Mr Said Amour Arfi (MP Mpanda Urban Chadema) on why Tanzanians were not allowed to buy Airtel Tanzania shares through the Dar es Salaam Stock Exchange.
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Chanzo
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Now with regard to Tanzania, the carrot and stick metaphor has been at work in recent years. Take for instance the ascendancy of CHADEMA. This ascendancy isn't based on ideology, but rather on the poor performance of CCM. Voters are punishing CCM and rewarding CHADEMA, but that doesn't mean they reject what CCM stand for or embrace CDM.
...Socialists ninaoongelea hapa si wale wa USSR, Eastern Europe -ya enzi zile- na Cuba, bali ni "french kind", ambao kimsingi wana socialistic ideals lakini mfumo wao ni mchanganyiko wa ubepari na usoshalisti na uliberali, if you may. ...Nakubaliana na wewe. Kwa maana ya kwamba, kiukweli, wanadamu wengi au jamii nyingi kwa maana hiyo, ni socialistic in nature. Ndiyo maana hao jamaa wameweza kuendelea kuchaguliwa. Na ukiangalia sababu kuu ni kwamba, simply watu wameendelea kuwa na uhakika wa maisha mazuri chini ya uongozi wao. ...Unafikiri ni kwani nini ccm is been punished? Ni kwasababu imepotea na kutoka nje ya ideals zake kama chama cha wananchi -wakulima na wafanyakazi- na kuwa chama cha wachache wenye kujali maslahi binafsi, bila kujali maendeleo ya nchi kwa ujumla. Kumbuka, themes za cdm zimekuwa ni pro wananchi, what do you expect? Infact, ni socialist in nature.
...Nitarudia tena. Watanzania wengi ni wa socialist -si kwa maana ya ki soviet-, hivyo measures zozote mtu atakazotaka kuzichukua lazima ziwe na elements za welfare state. Hii ndio jamii tuliyonayo, tutake tusitake.
...Nadhani set up kama ya kifaransa au ya nchi za nordic inaweza kuzaa matunda. Ingawa ni lazima iwe localized. ...Uelewa mdogo ndio tatizo. Katika nchi ambazo wananchi wana uelewa, issues ndio zina carry weight, kama ufaransa na immigration hivi sasa.