Zanzibar Wants Union Constitution Overhauled

[BWANYEENYE]

kwanza wanavunja katiba halafu baadaye wanatafuta justification ya uvunjaji, kweli tanzania tuna viongozi, in other words tanzania is being forced to ammend its union constitution in order to accommodate zanzibar constitution, this is wonderful, nimeamini kweli kiatu hufuata shepu ya mguu.

kiatu chenyewe ni tanganyika na mguu ni zanzibar si walijifanya wanalazimisha muungano kwa nguvu saivi kila shepu tutafuata.....

 

[BWANYEENYE]

ndio maana mimi kwa hili simung'unyi maneno, hao wapuuzi waliokaa wakapitisha katiba ya zanzibar ni wahaini per se. wangeanza angalau na hili la kulitazama katiba ya jamhuri kwanza, hapo labda wangeeleweka lakini kwa kitendo chao ambacho kwa lugha yoyote ile ni sawa na uvunjaji wa katiba ya jamhuri wanatakiwa wasweke lupango na hapa hakuna cha utani. Na raisi wa jamhuri anayeshindwa kuitetea katiba aliyoapa kuilinda naye lazima ifike mahali awajibishwe na ikiwezekana ashtakiwe. Taratibu kama zikifuatwa watanzania wengi tu huku bara nina hakika hawatakosa usingizi muungano ukivunjika lakini hawako tayari kwa vitendo hivi vya kilevilevi vya wenzetu.

mhaini na mlevi mwenyeo ulieshindwa kujua hao wanadai nn,,,,kwani si walijiunga kama nchi kamili au? Kama wanataka kutoka waachieni kwani hii ndoa ina ulazima gani hasa wa kuishikilia kwa nguvu zote kama hutakiwi tena ya nini muache,,,,,

 

[Nyaturu]

Maalim Seif aliwahi kusema kabla ya uchaguzi mkuu October 2000:

"If we win I see no reason to stay in the Union. Zanzibaris have not benefited from it one bit. I would go to the mainland and start talks on a program to move toward full independence." - (interview with "Time" magazine, October 2000).


Halafu Wolfgang Dourado alisema yafwatayo:

"The millions and billions of aid and development money that comes into Tanzania, do your research into how much of it comes here. Nothing. We try to talk to them but it's a dialogue with the deaf and dumb." - ( interview with "Time" magazine, October 2000).

Kama Junius, Mzanzibari, alivyoandika katika mjadala mwingine hapa Jamii Forums: "Tushang'oa nanga."

 

[BWANYEENYE]

kwani sasa hivi tunapata nini kutoka zanzibar ambacho kesho asubuhi tukikuta wameondoka tutakikosa?

hicho nini mnachokipata ndicho kinachowafanya hao viongozi wako waushikilie vizuri muungano na siku watakapoamuwa kuiwacha tu ndio utajua nini kilikuwa kinapatikana zanzibar kwenda kwenye muungano cz kwa wakati huo kitabakia huko huko zenji kuwanufaisha wenyewe wazenji,,,tanganyika daima

 

[Tindikali]

hicho nini mnachokipata ndicho ... kitabakia huko huko zenji kuwanufaisha wenyewe wazenji,,

Tanzania Bara inapata nini kutoka Zanzibar?

 

[Mpambalyoto]

kwani sasa hivi tunapata nini kutoka zanzibar ambacho kesho asubuhi tukikuta wameondoka tutakikosa?

ugomvi

 

[Nguruvi3]

Halafu Wolfgang Dourado alisema yafwatayo:

"The millions and billions of aid and development money that comes into Tanzania, do your research into how much of it comes here. Nothing. We try to talk to them but it's a dialogue with the deaf and dumb." - ( interview with "Time" magazine, October 2000)"Tushang'oa nanga."

Well, tell us how much Znz contribute to run the Union government
Why more tha 500,000 znzbarian live in mainland
How much the Tanganyika gov lose through ''free port in znz'' which is a conduit for tax evasion.
Tell us how much tanganyika tax payers money have been used for island payroll.
Tell us who pay 80 MPs in union parliament.
Finally, with 500 billion budget who want to steal from this another Ilala municipal budget.

 

[sblandes]

Hakuna faida kubwa ya kuigangania Zanzibar kubaki katika muungano,bado itakuwa katika jumuia ya Africa mashariki,na bado ni jirani zetu,kama majirani wetu wengi tena wakubwa waliotuzunguka kila pembe.

 

[BinMgen]

kwani muungano lazim!! Si na nyinyi mchukue tabganyika yenu!
na wao muwaache na zanzibar yao!!!
​

 

[S.M.P2503]

"kwa sababu mabadiliko ya katiba ya Zanzibar hivi sasa hayana nguvu bila kukubalika na Bunge la Muungano; sasa Bunge la Muungano litatakiwa kuridhia au kukataa. Likikataa Zanzibar watasema nini?"

Ni kweli hayana nguvu MKJJ... KAMA bunge la muungano likikataa ina maana zanzibar pia imekataa kwa sababu katika bunge la muungano kuna wawakilishi wa zanzibar ndani yake... hapo ndo mchezo mtamu wa politics utakapochezwa... pia option nyingine ni kujiondoa kwenye muungano kitu ambacho ni vigumu kwani maraisi wote huapa kuilinda katiba ya jamuhuri ya muungano wa tanzania na ilivyo sasa, mabadiliko hayo si mabadiliko kamili bali ni referendum isiyokuwa na nguvu za kisheria mpaka pale constitution mama ya muungano itakoporekebishwa...FULL STOP MASINONDA!!!

Nafikri ndo maana Kikwete alisema hiyo GNU si ya milele itakuwa reviewed baada ya miaka fulani... sasa sijui hayo ya Zanzibar kuwa nchi au la yametokea wapi maana referendum ilitakiwa kuwa kukubali au kukataa GNU... MENGINEYO YAMECHAKACHULIWA TU katika hiyo referendum... PIA inawezekana kwamba wanzibar hawajui nafasi yao katika muungano ndio maana wanapelekeshwa na zanzibar politisions... ni wazi kuwa zanzibar ni nchi ndani ya muungano kama ilivyo Tanganyika lakini both Tanganyika na zanzibar hazitambuliki KIMATAIFA kama inchi zenye legal personality kimataifa when it comes to issues SAY of entering treaties and enforcement of binding intenational laws.
Ni JMT pekee (Tanganyika +Zanzibar) ndio ina uwezo kimataifa... hawa wazanzibar wanataka kuchokoza nyuki maana wanafanya watu wengine kama hamnazo vile....

Inanifanya mimi nifikirie kwamba labda hawakubaliani na makubaliano yaliyofikiwa mwaka 1964 kati ya karume na Nyerere waliokuwa wanaziwakilisha nchi zao na kama ndio hivyo basi ina maana kwamba hawayakubali mapinduzi ya watu wa zanzibar yaliyomuweka Karume Madarakini PIA...

Kingine cha kunishangaza ni kwamba katika bunge la muungano wamo wabunge wanaoiwakilisha zanzibar... Kwa nini wabunge wa zanzibar hawakuja na hoja binafsi za hiyo referendum ambayo pia ingehusisha vipengele vya muungano? sina jibu labda walikuwa tu wako pale kudaka tonge mdomoni...

Na CCM wenyewe ndio wamelikologa kwa sababu sidhani kama walitegemea haya mambo ya zanzibar kutambuliwa kama nchi au sehemu ya muungano yangejitokeza... Nadhani walichokuwa wanafikiria ni GNU pekee iliyotokana na mazungumzo kayi ya Seif na Karume...
Karume pia amekosea kwani ameenda kinyume na kiapo chake cha ku-defend constitution ya zanzibar na ile ya muungano aliyoapa kuilinda.. sasa iweje leo akubali mabadiliko ya zanzibar kuwa nchi wakati tayari anajua kwamba zanzibar na Tanganyika ndo zinaunda Tanzania... ina maana pia kwamba Zanzibar hawalitaki jina hili la Tanzania ndo maana wana-insist wao kuwa ni nchi....

Pia nafikiri wamesaidia kuwafanya watanganyika waamuke kwani kama mabadiliko hayo ya zanzibar yakipelekwa kwenye bunge la muungano ni wazi pia kwamba mabadiliko mengine pia yatajitokeza tofauti na hayo wanayoyaomba wazanzibari...

Na kwa sisi tuliozaliwa katika nchi inaitwa Tanzania nafasi yetu iko wapi tunapokwenda Zanzibar kama nchi... hebu waache kutunganganyia mambo... wazee wazima lakini vihivyo wa kufanya mambo kwa kukurupuka...

 

[S.M.P2503]

Mwisho kama hawataki.. basi wajitoe.. sioni sababu yoyote ya kuwang'ang'ania ili hali ni kwa faida yao...

 

[Buchanan]

Zanzibar Wants Union Constitution Overhauled


Zanzibar said yesterday it wants Tanzania's Constitution changed to accommodate the amendments made to its own by the Isles' House of Representatives earlier this week.

Hamza Hassan Juma, Minister of State in the Zanzibar Chief Minister's Office, said in an exclusive interview with this paper that some of the amendments were geared at finding lasting solutions to political disputes specific to the Isles and were not meant to breaking up the April 29, 1964 Union.

"Rather than seek to interfere with the Union Constitution, these constitutional transformations are intended to strengthen the Union between Zanzibar and Tanganyika," he said.

He added: "We have amended our (Zanzibar) Constitution in a spirited bid to put things right, though in the future it will surely be necessary to overhaul the Union Constitution to be in line with the changes made to that of Zanzibar."

Juma noted that sections 1and 2 of the Zanzibar Constitution, which referred to Zanzibar as part of the United Republic of Tanzania, has been expunged.

He said in the place of the two sections now lies a clause suggesting that Zanzibar is a fully fledged state whose territory will be the whole area covering Unguja and Pemba and all other surrounding islands and territorial waters – and before the 1964 Union making up the People's Republic of Zanzibar.

He added that the House of Representatives also revised clause 61 (1) so as to empower the President of Zanzibar to appoint regional commissioners for the Isles without consulting the Union President, as has hitherto obtained.

Contacted for comment, Union Constitutional Affairs and Justice minister Mathias Chikawe said he was not in a position to comment on "such a sensitive and delicate matter" in a telephone interview.

"Do you want me to comment on such a sensitive and delicate issue on the phone? No way! You do not know me, and nor do I know you. Find time so that we meet to discuss that matter," he said, and hung up.

A number of politicians and lawyers have said the amendments would likely lead to the conflicts between the mainlanders and Zanzibaris. Founding President Mwalimu Julius Nyerere once said were possible unless the country's unity was consolidated by having the Constitution respected and defended.

United Democratic Party national chairman John Cheyo said the concept of reverting to and recognising Zanzibar pre-Union boundaries "will automatically kill the fact that Zanzibar is part of the United Republic of Tanzania".

Dr Edmund Sengondo Mvungi, a constitutional lawyer and long-serving lecturer at the University of Dar es Salaam, meanwhile bluntly stated that endorsing the amendments meant having two sovereign states within the Union structure.

But Civic United Front (CUF) secretary general Seif Shariff Hamad applauded the House of Representatives for "successfully fighting for amendments which have made it possible for Zanzibar to count and be recognised as a country within the Union".

"The amendments are not meant to dismantle the Union. They are for the benefit of Zanzibar's residents and future generations," he told a rally at Unguja's Mwembetanga grounds on Tuesday.

The constitutional changes also sought to pave the way for the formation of government of national unity (GNU) in Zanzibar, mainly involving the ruling CCM and the opposition CUF, after the October General Election.

The GNU's birth would be the culmination of a long process partly made possible by a referendum held on July 31 this year following reconciliation initiated last November by Zanzibar President Amani Abeid Karume and the CUF secretary general.

The reconciliation was part of a strategy to bury political conflicts which emerged particularly in the wake of the 1995, 2000 and 2005 Zanzibar presidential elections, whose results in favour of CCM, the opposition always dismissed as awfully manipulated.

The referendum saw the GNU plan approved by 66.4 per cent of all voters in the Isles.

The hotly contested amendments to the Zanzibar Constitution were tabled by Ramadhan Abdallah Shaaban, Minister of State in the Zanzibar President's Office (Constitutional Affairs and Good Governance), and unanimously endorsed by the House of Representatives on Monday. The controversial development drew mixed opinions, some Union ministers and Attorney General Frederick Werema requested for time "to reflect on the matter" before they could make any comments.

Huyu Hamza Hassan Juma simwelewi hata kidogo, hivi unaweza kuimarisha Muungano kwa kuvunja Katiba inayounda huo Muungano? Ibara ya 61 (2) ya Katiba ya Jamhuri ya Muungano wa Tanzania, 1977 (toleo la 2005) inasema kwamba "Wakuu wa Mikoa wa Tanzania Zanzibar watateuliwa na Rais wa Zanzibar baada ya kushauriana na Rais (wa Jamhuri ya Muungano)." Mabadiliko ya Kumi ya Katiba ya Zanzibar, 1984 yanadai kwamba Rais wa Zanzibar atateua Wakuu wa Mikoa bila kushauriana na Rais wa Jamhuri ya Muungano wa Tanzania! Sasa kama marais hawa wawili kila mtu atafanya mambo yake Muungano utakuwepo? Kuungana si kufanya vitu kwa pamoja? By the way, Wazanzibari wanaulalamikia sana Muungano, sasa ni kichekesho kudai kwamba wanachukua hatua za "kuimarisha Muungano." Ridiculous indeed!

 

[Kichuguu]

Huyu Hamza Hassan Juma simwelewi hata kidogo, hivi unaweza kuimarisha Muungano kwa kuvunja Katiba inayounda huo Muungano? Ibara ya 61 (2) ya Katiba ya Jamhuri ya Muungano wa Tanzania, 1977 (toleo la 2005) inasema kwamba "Wakuu wa Mikoa wa Tanzania Zanzibar watateuliwa na Rais wa Zanzibar baada ya kushauriana na Rais (wa Jamhuri ya Muungano)." Mabadiliko ya Kumi ya Katiba ya Zanzibar, 1984 yanadai kwamba Rais wa Zanzibar atateua Wakuu wa Mikoa bila kushauriana na Rais wa Jamhuri ya Muungano wa Tanzania! Sasa kama marais hawa wawili kila mtu atafanya mambo yake Muungano utakuwepo? Kuungana si kufanya vitu kwa pamoja? By the way, Wazanzibari wanaulalamikia sana Muungano, sasa ni kichekesho kudai kwamba wanachukua hatua za "kuimarisha Muungano." Ridiculous indeed!

kwa sababu anataka kuchanganya siasa za blah blah na constitutional law

 

[pmwasyoke]

Hakuna awezaye kuzuia kurudi kwa Tanganyika yetu sasa, na wazanzibar wanatusaidia jambo hili litimie haraka zaidi.

 

[Mtu wa Pwani]

huwezi kuliziba juana ungo huwezi kuliziba jua huwezi kuliziba


kumekucha sasa ni wakati wa kukubali kuzungumza tukubali kukaa na kuzunguimza tena kwa amani hadi mapovu ya mdomo yajae na tukubaliane nini cha kufanya

 

[cartura]

I guess 'Dr' Karume had something up his sleeve all along, something to do with the kind of legacy that he would like to leave behind and at least be remembered for; his timing is interesting- anajua suala hili litaleta mvutano, but who cares? atakuwa ameshatoka madarakani!

I don't think we need to spend so much energy kuwashikilia hawa jamaa zetu waendelee kukaa kwenye Muungano; hata hivyo ni muhimu wafuate taratibu zinazokubalika kikatiba ili kutimiza matakwa yao.

Sasa naanza kuona mantiki ya kwa nini baadhi ya watu wamekuwa wakisisitiza sana umuhimu wa kuwa na Constitutional Conference...

 

[Jile79]

Kosa kubwa ambalo mimi naliona ni kitendo cha kuacha zanzibar iendelee kuwa na rais, wawakilishi huku tanganyika ikiwa imemezwa ndani ya muungano hapo ndipo walipochemka japo inawezekana walikuwa na nia njema lakini kihalisia haikutakiwa iwe hivyo....
Wangefuata hata maneno ya kwenye msahafu wa biblia kwamba ..mtu atawaacha wazazi wake ataambatana na mwenzake mpaka kifo kiwatenganishe lakini muungano wetu haukujengwa ktk misingi hiyo ndiyo maana kila siku unasikia serikali tatu wengine moja kwa sababu tangu mwanzo tanganyika ndiyo ilikubali kuwaacha wazazi wake na kuambatana na muungano.......tunaendelea kutwanga maji kwenye kinu bila sababbu na wakati tunajua fika kuwa haiwezekani...........kama kuna sababu za msingi ambazo ni lazima kkuwe na muungano basi mabavu yatumike kuondoa upuuzi wa wazanzibar wachache kufanya mambo haya makubwa kwa matakwa binafsi isipokuwa lichukuliwe jukumu la kuondoa katiba ya zanzibar ili tuwe na katiba moja na serikali moja na wala sio tatu km wengine wanavyoshauri.............
mwanzo wa haya ni mwisho wa muungano

 

[MkamaP]

Wakuu mnapoteza pumzi zenu bure kuhusiana na hawa jamaa zetu. Ndio yale ya mh. Mwinyi kuondoa dira ya Taifa, miiko na maadili ya Viongozi ambazo ndizo nguzo kisha akaendelea kudai hakuliua Azimio la Arusha. Wakati kilichotakiwa kwa ubora zaidi ilikuwa kuua Azimio la Arusha (serikali kumiliki njia za Uchumi) na kubakiza dira ya kitaifa inayowafunga viongozi na wananchi wake ktk miiko na maadili.

Kwa hiyo, msiwe na wasiwasi zaidi kwani nina hakika tumefika mahala njia panda. Wanajua fika kwamba JK ni kiongozi dhaifu na wanajaribu kutingisha kiberiti lakini sasa wamefika mahala ambapo watagota. Na ili haya maombi yao yakubalike ni lazima wakubali pia mapendekezo ya bara kama yafuatayo. Tanzania Costitution itafanyiwa mabadiliko waliyopendekeza ikiwa tu:-

1. Zitaundwa serikali za nchi tatu (Zanzibar na Bara) na ile ya Jamhuri (Tanzania) itaongozwa na chama kilichoshinda uchaguzi mkuu pasipo kujali viongozi wake wanatoka upande gani au dini gani. Kila serikali itawakilishwa na wajumbe wake ktk serikali kuu kulingana na idadi ya washindi wawakilishi ktk serikali za nchi husika.

2. Hakuna serikali ya mseto kwa sehemu moja ya nchi isipokuwa vyama vitaweza kuwa na serikali ya mseto ikiwa tu kuna tofauti ya asilimia 10 Kitaifa. Vyama vilivyoshinda ktk serikali mbili watashika madaraka ya nchi hizo chini ya mshindi wa serikali kuu (Taifa).
3. Kuondoa utaratibu wa uchaguzi wa winner takes all - Rais wa nchi atachaguliwa kutokana na ushindi wa chama ktk majimbo mengi (electral vote) kinyume cha Umaarufu wa kiongozi (Popular vote) anayegombea Urais.
4. National Identity ya kila Mtanzania itakuwa Mtanzania hakuna matumizi ya Uzanzibar au Ubara.

Wakiweza kukubali haya tupo tayari kuendelea na Muungano kinyume cha hapo wakubali kwamba Zanzibar huru ni ile iliyofuatia Mapinduzi ya mwaka 1964 hivyo Muungano uliowekwa mwaka 1964 utaenziwa kama ulivyo laa sivyo tuvunje Muungano na kila mmoja wetu ajikate kivyake kama walivyofanya Yugoslavia baada ya kifo cha Tito (Mjamaa).

Wakumbuke tu kwamba Yugoslavia ile exodus ya ku move watu kurudi makwao iliwaku chanzo cha Serbia kuvamia nchi nyingine kudai sehemu ya mipaka ya nchi hizo na tofauti za kiimani (dini) na makabila played a big role ktk kuzigawa nchi hizo kuliko uzawa wa wahusika.

Na inasemekana nchi zote hizo hakuna hata mojawapo imepiga hatua kimaendeleo isipokuwa zote zimerudi nyuma na kukosa nguvu waliyokuwa nayo Yugoslavia. Inasemekana kama Yugoslavia ingebakia vile ktk mfumo huu wa soko huria na Utandawazi pengine ingekuwa Taifa tajiri na lenye nguvu kuliko France...

Mnasingizia bure Mwinyi na kuondoa DIRA na MIIKO. Hayo yote tumevuruga sisi wananchi na sio Mwinyi.

Hata hivyo Mwinyi anatakiwa aubembeleze sana huu muungano, sasa ukivunjika , AS PER HUDI mpaka kufa si atamiss?? Ama itakua je hapo?

Nafikiri Kikwete na Mkapa nao wanaweza miss hiyo huduma.

Tungetengana nafikiri ni obvious zanzibar watakua zanzibar sisi tutajiita tu JAMHURI YA TANZANIA. Wataumia hao.

Harafu tukitengena nafikiri maendeleo ndo yatakuja kwa kasi. Mimi nafikiri tutengane tu.

 

[Ngekewa]

Hii ni "wake up call"!.....Na kesho baada ya kubadilishwa Katiba Mama ya Muungano hawa Waungwana watakuja na Hoja nyingine ya kutaka Wizara yao ya Mambo ya Nje na KMKM liwe Jeshi la Ulinzi.Wapo wapi wasomi na Wanasheria?Hivi kikundi kidogo cha watu kwa ajili ya Maslahi yao Binafsi kinaweza kushinikiza kubadilishwa kwa Katiba?
Ninacholalamika hapa sio Zanzibar kutaka kufanya mambo yao kwa jinsi wanavyopenda wao.....Kinachoniuma ni kutokuwepo kwa Utawala wa sheria! Kama kuna kasoro zozote za Muungano na Katiba yake kuitishwe Mkutano wa Bunge la Jamuhuri na mapungufu ya Muungano yajadiliwe kwa Uwazi.

Muungano ulipoanzishwa upande wa Bara ndio uliopendekeza na sasa katika mabadiliko ni zamu ya Zanzibar kupendekeza. Ni uungwana kuwa Bara nayo ikubali mabadiliko moja kwa moja kama alivyofanya Karume kwa Nyerere. Usifutuke hiyo ndiyo demokrasia!

 

[Ngekewa]

Kwanza wanavunja katiba halafu baadaye wanatafuta justification ya uvunjaji, kweli tanzania tuna viongozi, in other words Tanzania is being forced to ammend its Union Constitution in order to accommodate Zanzibar Constitution, this is wonderful, nimeamini kweli kiatu hufuata shepu ya mguu.

Kaiba ipi iliyovunjwa? Tueleze kipi kigeni katika mabadiliko hayo? Kuwa Zanzibar ni moja ya nchi mbili za Muungano huu? Kuwa Rais wa Zanzibar kuwa na mamlaka ya vyombo vya serikali ya Zanzibar (mikoa)? Ni nani anaelipia uendeshaji wa Mikoa ya Zanzibar?
TATIZO LENU NI LILE LILE chenu chetu na chetu ni chetu.