Who "Played" Nyerere?

[Ngathuyavome]

Changing the leaders as you were preaching on your earlier post can never make a change within you. As you confirmed above, Great leaders like Jesus and Muhammad have had "vast" followers, Muslims do follow both, Jesus and Muhammad.

Our Nyerere followed Jesus alone like you do, and what good did Nyerere do for 24 Years apart from being blessed with a gift of blarney?

I am asking you, again and again, if even Jesus whom you vastly follow could never change you, how can you expect other mortal leaders to change you? the change should be within you before you start to expect others to change you.

What change of leaders do you expect to change you if Nyerere failed to change you for 24 years? he left you poorest in the world and he was following Jesus to the dot.

Now, only now with Kikwete leadership, you have the chance to change yourself and excel within, if you could not grab the chance or the idea, I am telling you, even the comeback of Jesus will never ever be able to change you. The least he could do is just blame you for your own failures. Remember that.

"Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" - mostly credited to John F. Kennedy but the true quote is from George St John, President's former headmaster.

​

Are you seriously saying this is the best time for people to change their lives because Kikwete is the President. I was waiting for just one positive comment from you since you have been so negative on this thread and the only positive thing for is JK's presidency while we have all kind of corruption( EPA, Richmond, meremeta, secrete gas contracts , auction gas blocks without proper established gas polices) and no government services (the west high school results, rising crime, land disputes,poaching). You must be living in a different world

 

[FaizaFoxy]

Kikwete won the presidency by bribery. I am told the night before the nomination, Rostum Aziz approached Mkapa and offered him a $3million bribery to ensure Kikwete is nominated. Mkapa played with the nominating process to ensure Kikwete becomes president, and like Judas, up to this day he is "ashamed" of himself. I hope he clarifies this in his soon to be published book.

Uongo huo.

"Chaguo la Mungu" leo mmelisahau?

And Rostam bribed the 80% Tanzanian voters who voted for Kikwete "kwa kishindo"?

Mbowe was beaten by Kikwete, as the western cowboy would say, "hands down".

 

[FaizaFoxy]

Are you seriously saying this is the best time for people to change their lives because Kikwete is the President. I was waiting for just one positive comment from you since you have been so negative on this thread and the only positive thing for is JK's presidency while we have all kind of corruption( EPA, Richmond, meremeta, secrete gas contracts , auction gas blocks without proper established gas polices) and no government services (the west high school results, rising crime, land disputes,poaching). You must be living in a different world

You have seen them all because of Kikwete, was it not for his efforts you would have seen nothing, all the things you have named were there before he took over. He came and exposed them, you should be thanking him.

 

[FaizaFoxy]

Napingana nawewe. Tanzania tunaweza kabisa, kwani mataifa yalioendelea yalitokea wapi? Viongozi wenye fikra kama zako ndiyo wanasababisha umaskini waraia kutoisha.

Hivi wapi duniani nchi zimeendelea kwa misaada kutoka ulaya na Marekani? Tunaitaji viongozi wenye misimamo kama Mwalimu Nyerere, ambao awatayumbishwa na marafiki zao, familia zao, ndugu zao. Tunaitaji viongozi ambao wataweka Tanzania mbele kuliko kitu kingine.

Viongozi waliokuwa wamemzunguka Mwalimu Nyerere walimsaliti baada ya yeye kutoka madarakani. Kiongozi gani wasasa hapa Tanzania anaweza kusimama na kutetea raia kwa nguvu zake zote? Viwanda wamevizika, mashirika ya umma ndio usiseme, elimu ndio majanga kabisa, usafiri ndio kabisa hakuna anaye jali.

Mwalimu Nyerere tutakukumbuka daima, hata wanao kubeza wanaona aibu mioyoni mwao.

Tunaweza nini? msimamo upi wa Nyerere? miaka 24 kaondoka na msimamo wake nchi kaiacha maskini wa kutupwa. Hata viwanda alivyoliingiza hasara Taifa kuvinunuwa na kuvijenga vilitoka wapi? Mwitongo? fikiri!

Mataifa ya nje yote unayoyaona yameendelea na unayoyaongelea yalianza zamani sana, yalikuwa "isolated" na masikini kama unavyodhani kuwa ukiji "isolate" ndio utapata maendeleo. Yalipoanza kujitoa katika "isolation" kwa kutoka nje ya kwao ku explore dunia hapo ndipo walipoanza kuendelea. Maendeleo yao yalikuja kwa kutoka nje ya makwao.

Ikiwa ni technology na utajiri, soma history, mzungu wa kwanza alipofika Kilwa alikuta tayari watu wana sarafu za dhahabu kwa utajiri waliokuwa nao, alikuta nyumba za ghorofa, alikuta nyumba zinapakwa rangi wakati kwao walikuwa hawalijui hilo. Walikuta watu wanatumia sahani za kauri za kutoka uchina wakati wao walikuwa hawajui hilo! walikuta watu wanatumia hariri kwa mavazi kutoka uchina wakati wao walikuwa hawayajui hayo kwao. Kama ni viwanda, tulianza kujuwa kufuma nguo kabla ya Ulaya (soma). Kwanini tuliendelea wakati huo? kwa sababu tulikuwa tunatoka nje na tunakaribisha maendeleo ya nje kutufikia.

Nyerere alipokuja akajifanya mjanja na kutu "isolate", matokeo? tukawa masikini wa mwisho duniani.

Leo hii tunawaona wajinga wengi humu JF wakimsakama Kikwete eti anasafiri sana kwenda nje ya nchi. Hivi nyinyi mtayapata wapi maendeleo ya kwenu bila kutoka nje?

Unawaona leo mataifa makubwa yaliyoendelea kwa kila kitu yanakuja hapa kwetu, kwanini? walianza leo? soma historia, hawakuanza leo kuja kwetu na kwenda kwengine duniani na hawatoacha kutoka nje ya makwao na kwenda duniani, iwe kwetu iwe kwengine, kutafuta wasiyonayo kwao na au wajiongezee. iwe elimu, iwe dhahabu, iwe madini, iwe mazao iwe chochote kile, mradi kina faida hawatakiacha.

Kwanini na sisi tuseme tunaweza wennyewe? tunaweza nini bila kutoka na kushirikiana na watu wa duniani.

Nioneshe nchi moja duniani iliyoendelea kwa kujifungia yenyewe tu. Ingeendelea Cuba, na sasa tunasikia wanasalimu amri na kuanza kufunguwa milango yao.

Badilisheni ujinga mliojazwa na Nyerere, siasa zake zilishindwa kuleta mafanikio hata chembe Tanzania hii kwa miaka 24 mfululizo.

Leo wewe kaa kijijini kwennu kama ni Kiboroloni au Bwejuu halafu tukuone uendelee bila kutoka nje ya hapo na au kushirikiana na watu wa nje ya kwenu. Maawee!

 

[FaizaFoxy]

Mmmmh very hard to understand! How come no body within a group of mwalimu dare not to follow what they have been belief? That mean mwalimu was alone of his believe?

What would you want them to follow? his failures? he failed in every avenue he pursued.

 

[Piere. Fm]

Mgodi wa Almasi ulikuwepo kabla ya Nyerere.

Kuhusu royalty ya 3% watu wengi wanapenda amma ku mislead watu amma kufurahisha barza. Kikwete miaka ya mwanzo alipoingia madarakani, aliliona hili na akamchaguwa Zitto kabwe kuwa kiongozi wa tume ya kupitia mikataba ya madini, baada ya hapo royalty ikaongezeka kuwa 4%.

Cha kuelewa au kufahamu ni kuwa, royalty ya 3% inatolewa ikiwa mgodi una faida au hasara. Na baada ya kujilipa hasara mgodi unalipa kodi zingine zote kama kawaida.

Ungeniuliza kwanini hatukuingia ubia (kabla ya uongozi wa Kikwete) kwenye migodi kama ambavyo inafanyika sasa wakati wa Kikwete, hapo ningekuelewa.

Kumbuka kitu kimoja katika dunia ambayo biashara yake inategemea mpaka watu wa nje waje kununuwa, ukiongelea Almasi, De Beers Group ndio wanamiliki soko la Almasi duniani. Watakuumiza ukipenda usipende.

Ukiongelea Dhahabu ndio hayo hayo, bila kuwa na wanunuzi na au wachimbaji wa nje, dhahabu yako haina faida hata chembe.

Leo tunaongelea madini kama vile ndio utajiri pekee tuliokuwa nao Tanzania. Tuna kahawa, chai, cocoa, mkonge, korosho, pamba, samaki, mifugo na mazao mengine kadhaa, ambayo pekee yangetufikisha mbali sana. Lakini kwa miaka 24 ya Nyerere yametufikisha wapi zaidi ya kutufanya tuwe maskini wa mwisho duniani? Jee, unajuwa kwanini?

Kumbuka kuna migodi ya dhahabu Tanganyika ipo toka wakati wa Mjerumani, hatukuanza leo.

Umeongelea kuhusu mazao kama Pamba, mkonge, kahawa na mengineyo, kumbubuka kwa kutumia mazao hayo uliyoyataja Mwalimu Nyerere(ambaye unasema hajafanya kitu kwa miaka 24) aliweza kufanya mambo mbalimbali kama kusomesha watanzania, kuanzisha Viwanda mbalimbali , kusimamia uchumi imara (mfano kumbuka miaka ya 70 dola moja ilikuwa ni sawa na sh 6). Pia mwalimu aliweza kuhakikisha watanzania wanapata Elimu iliyobora (tofauti na sasa mwanafunzi anamaliza darasa la saba hajui kusoma na kuandika), Mwalimu aliweza kujenga umoja kwa kuondoa ukabila na Udini, mwalimu aliweza kupunguza gap la matabaka kati ya walionacho na wasionacho, Mwalimu aliweza kwa kiasi kikubwa kupambana na adui mkubwa wa haki (RUSHWA). Tunakubali mwalimu kama binadamu naye anamapungufu yake na ndio maana aliwah kukiri na kusema anakubali katika awamu yake kuna mema wameyafanya na kuna mengine ya kijinga na ndio maana akasema ya kijinga lazima tuyaache na yale mema tuyaendeleze, sasa
kwanini useme mwalimu hakufanya lolote kwa miaka 24? Au ndo kama alivyosema kuwa Ubaya wetu tunayaacha mema na kuyachukua ya kijinga.

 

[bitete]

I am going back in times...back to 1992 after Zanzibar declaration and later on Vyama vingi... And then mkutano Mkuu wa CCM 1995 which picked Benjamin Mkapa as CCM candidate...

Who did what?

Who wrote the master plot that fooled the genius himself and opened the doors of chaos and power struggles that we are seeing today?

Just curious....

Mkuu, in this day and age when you have a kettle of vultures hovering above a mealy meat (hereby referring to Tanganyika and its wealth and resources) on lonely person cannot stop them from devouring the meal. Mzee had so many vultures in his midst and some of them were " wolves in sheep skin". Imagine, he is gone what? 14yrs now? But look at what is happening? The country is majority owned by foreigners while Tanzanians languish in abject poverty. Whether we like it or not as a country we are heading for a steep cliff and only when we are free falling will we realise that it is too late. I pray for my country. I pray for TANZANIA.

 

[Isike Moses]

Hivi Tanzania bila kusaidiwa kutoka nje ina nini zaidi, inachoweza kusema cha kujivunia kujiendesha yenyewe?

Hata sindano ya kushonea hatujuwi kutengeneza bila msaada wa nje, hivi mnataka kusema nini?

Unajua ni kwa nini sindano hatuwezi bila msaada wa nje? unajua ni kwanini viwanda vyetu vimekufa? Unajua ni kwanini "tuna mali" lakini hatuna "hali"? Trace historia,utapata jibu... Baada ya kung'atuka mwalimu tu upo to this moment,that longest tracing has optimal satisfactory answers bibie..

 

[Mahesabu]

Rev. long time

this is the JF i used to love, it was a class plus one... critical thinking, in depth analyses and proper facts with challenges etc.

I hope wazee wa data watashusha za kutosha, tena bila kuleta udini wala itikadi katika hili...

I am no politician nor historian, but a few readings and references tell me that Nyerere played too smart a$$ he ended up rounding himself; and he realised it before he died but he was powerless to do anything... so they silenced him successfully and permanently

for sure.... I missed this JF

 

[TIMING]

Thinking that your natural resources can help you from your miseries is the poorest way of thinking ever.

i love my poor way of thinking than hating someone for what faith he/she believe in... that cant even be given a term/name or anything... its like defining the color of sound in the darkness

stupid fools like you will always find excuses in life,

we match on... and yes, beating poverty lift right and center

 

[TIMING]

for sure.... I missed this JF

respect mkuu....

Unfortunately tayari hata hii thread imeshageuzwa jukwaa la dini na a few members, i would love us to discuss this intelligently

sijui wanalipwa kiasi gani

 

[TIMING]

Jisomee ya wenzako haya si yangu: The Most Influential People of All Time

Halafu sijui huelewi Kiingereza sawa sawa au umekurupuka tu kuwa ni udini baada ya kuona jina Jesus tu? Irudie tena post yangu labda utanielewa.

kiswahili ndio lugha yangu.. yako ipi?

 

[TIMING]

Rev. long time

this is the JF i used to love, it was a class plus one... critical thinking, in depth analyses and proper facts with challenges etc.

I hope wazee wa data watashusha za kutosha, tena bila kuleta udini wala itikadi katika hili...

I am no politician nor historian, but a few readings and references tell me that Nyerere played too smart a$$ he ended up rounding himself; and he realised it before he died but he was powerless to do anything... so they silenced him successfully and permanently

Well post number 7 ilishajua akina nanihino wataleta udini maana ndio fimbo pekee ya kuzuia hoja za msingi kujadiliwa JF.... protecting their masters using all wrong strategies

 

[nash2010]

who played nyerere? I don't know
but I know whoever tempered with our education system is to blame for this nation's under development

 

[Rugambwa31]

Tunaweza nini? msimamo upi wa Nyerere? miaka 24 kaondoka na msimamo wake nchi kaiacha maskini wa kutupwa. Hata viwanda alivyoliingiza hasara Taifa kuvinunuwa na kuvijenga vilitoka wapi? Mwitongo? fikiri!

Mataifa ya nje yote unayoyaona yameendelea na unayoyaongelea yalianza zamani sana, yalikuwa "isolated" na masikini kama unavyodhani kuwa ukiji "isolate" ndio utapata maendeleo. Yalipoanza kujitoa katika "isolation" kwa kutoka nje ya kwao ku explore dunia hapo ndipo walipoanza kuendelea. Maendeleo yao yalikuja kwa kutoka nje ya makwao.

Ikiwa ni technology na utajiri, soma history, mzungu wa kwanza alipofika Kilwa alikuta tayari watu wana sarafu za dhahabu kwa utajiri waliokuwa nao, alikuta nyumba za ghorofa, alikuta nyumba zinapakwa rangi wakati kwao walikuwa hawalijui hilo. Walikuta watu wanatumia sahani za kauri za kutoka uchina wakati wao walikuwa hawajui hilo! walikuta watu wanatumia hariri kwa mavazi kutoka uchina wakati wao walikuwa hawayajui hayo kwao. Kama ni viwanda, tulianza kujuwa kufuma nguo kabla ya Ulaya (soma). Kwanini tuliendelea wakati huo? kwa sababu tulikuwa tunatoka nje na tunakaribisha maendeleo ya nje kutufikia.

Nyerere alipokuja akajifanya mjanja na kutu "isolate", matokeo? tukawa masikini wa mwisho duniani.

Leo hii tunawaona wajinga wengi humu JF wakimsakama Kikwete eti anasafiri sana kwenda nje ya nchi. Hivi nyinyi mtayapata wapi maendeleo ya kwenu bila kutoka nje?

Unawaona leo mataifa makubwa yaliyoendelea kwa kila kitu yanakuja hapa kwetu, kwanini? walianza leo? soma historia, hawakuanza leo kuja kwetu na kwenda kwengine duniani na hawatoacha kutoka nje ya makwao na kwenda duniani, iwe kwetu iwe kwengine, kutafuta wasiyonayo kwao na au wajiongezee. iwe elimu, iwe dhahabu, iwe madini, iwe mazao iwe chochote kile, mradi kina faida hawatakiacha.

Kwanini na sisi tuseme tunaweza wennyewe? tunaweza nini bila kutoka na kushirikiana na watu wa duniani.

Nioneshe nchi moja duniani iliyoendelea kwa kujifungia yenyewe tu. Ingeendelea Cuba, na sasa tunasikia wanasalimu amri na kuanza kufunguwa milango yao.

Badilisheni ujinga mliojazwa na Nyerere, siasa zake zilishindwa kuleta mafanikio hata chembe Tanzania hii kwa miaka 24 mfululizo.
!

Nazani tujikite katika hoja, kila mtu anamawazo yake ndiyo maana kuna uhuru wa kutoa maoni pia. Sasa nitashangaa Tanzania nzima tukafurahi kwa raisi wetu Mh. Jakaya Kikwete kuwa nje ya nchi mara nyingi kuliko ndani.

Nikipitia maandishi yako hapo juu niliyo weka rangi, nimekupata kwamba hupo hapa kumtetea kufa na kupona kuakikisha unamtetea huyo. Sioni tatizo lolote, hila nakuona unatumia nguvu nyingi na jazba sana.

Tuwe wakweli, hivi Botswana imewezaje kupiga hatua? Hivi unaweza niambia haya madini ya Tanzania tunapata faida ngapi? Mbuga za wanyama tunapata faida ngapi? Unajua kama tungekuwa wakweli, tungepingana na Mwalimu Nyerere wakati yupo hai, mbona tumesubiri kaondoka ndiyo tunafanya haya yote? Elimu ya watu wazima hiko wapi? Nitajie viwanda vinavyo fanya kazi sasa ambavyo ni mali ya watanzania. Nitajie usafiri wa huakika hapa Tanzania ni hupi? Yote haya yametokana na nini?

 

[MwanaFalsafa1]

I believe, and this is just me, that Sokoine would have been the best successor of Nyerere. Sadly he died or was killed, who knows? The second person Mwalimu tried to prepare was Salim Ahmed Salim but he was also denied in his own land (Zanzibar) due to the fact that he wasn't a Shirazi. I don't claim to be an expert but I think Mkapa was his last attempt at producing a successor but we all know how that turned out. So in this I agree with the member (or members) who rightly pointed out that he should have concentrated on building institutions rather than grooming an heir becomes honestly speaking anyone could pretend to be a follower if they felt it would lead to being the successor.

Mwalimu realized his mistakes towards the end, if one wants proof of this they should refer to his speech on Labor Day in 1995, he talks bluntly about his own mistakes and the path of his successors. Sadly by the time he realized this it was too late. He no longer wielded any power since he was no longer president or party chairman. The only weapon he had left was his voice which was sadly silenced in 1999, whether naturally or otherwise....

To those who blame Nyerere, I understand your position. I know we humans a naturally selfish creatures who tend to look at how a person has individually helped us rather than looking at the larger picture. That's why there are some who blame Nyerere for not favoring their religion, tribe or region. They look at things through the prism of what did he do for me personally. BUT if you are an intelligent human being you realize that Nyerere was last in power in 1985 (28 years ago) and has been dead for the past 14 years. Hence nothing can solely be blamed on him since we have had ample time to curve a different path if we so wished to (however we Tanzanians are known more for our words rather than our actions). It seems to me that their are some people here who will teach their grandchildren to blame everything on Nyerere who then in 50 years time will be blaming their current situation on a man who was last in power before they were even alive.

As a country we have made plenty of mistakes, but no success comes without a few missteps along the way. Read the story of any successful person or idea and behind it you will find more stories of failure rather than success. We have gotten to this point but it will be a shame if our children and grandchildren will also sit down and blame Nyerere.

The bottom line is this. If we want to make change we have to sacrifice, maybe even a lot. Most people understand we need to sacrifice. So what is hindering change is not that we do not know what we need to do but rather that there is nobody willing to do it. This goes back to my previous point of selfishness. Everybody understands that as a country we need to sacrifice but no one is willing to be affected by those sacrifices personally. This is why we have reached a point where we only talk about change but nothing gets done.

Lastly let me just say this. Nyerere is DEAD. No stones we cast on him personally affect him. He is in another realm and is no longer affected or influenced by the events or the time and space we who are alive occupy. We can choose to continue to blame him forever or realize that our future are in our hands and not the hands of the dead.

 

[FaizaFoxy]

Nazani tujikite katika hoja, kila mtu anamawazo yake ndiyo maana kuna uhuru wa kutoa maoni pia. Sasa nitashangaa Tanzania nzima tukafurahi kwa raisi wetu Mh. Jakaya Kikwete kuwa nje ya nchi mara nyingi kuliko ndani.

Nikipitia maandishi yako hapo juu niliyo weka rangi, nimekupata kwamba hupo hapa kumtetea kufa na kupona kuakikisha unamtetea huyo. Sioni tatizo lolote, hila nakuona unatumia nguvu nyingi na jazba sana.

Tuwe wakweli, hivi Botswana imewezaje kupiga hatua? Hivi unaweza niambia haya madini ya Tanzania tunapata faida ngapi? Mbuga za wanyama tunapata faida ngapi? Unajua kama tungekuwa wakweli, tungepingana na Mwalimu Nyerere wakati yupo hai, mbona tumesubiri kaondoka ndiyo tunafanya haya yote? Elimu ya watu wazima hiko wapi? Nitajie viwanda vinavyo fanya kazi sasa ambavyo ni mali ya watanzania. Nitajie usafiri wa huakika hapa Tanzania ni hupi? Yote haya yametokana na nini?

Soma kuhusu Botswana halafu uone kama waliji "isolate" walivyopata Uhuru. Halafu endelea kusoma kuhusu economy yao kama waliindesha kama Nyerere. Hakukuwa na ujamaa wa kijinga huko. Never.

Isitoshe, wako million 2 kama vile wakazi wa Kinondoni pekee.

 

[MwanaFalsafa1]

During the long period during which I have had the good fortune to lead our country, I have made very many speeches to Tanzanians. Today, in my last speech as President of the United Republic, I have only one extra thing to say.

To every one of you individually, to all people organised together in villages, in cooperatives, in professions, voluntary organisations contributing to our development, to all honest workers in Government and parastatals – to everybody – I say thank you very much.

Since we began to govern ourselves, I have been the leader, first of Tanganyika, and then of the United Republic of Tanzania. Time and again you have re-elected me and thus expressed your continued confidence in my ability to do the job you needed done.

And in the last few weeks you have paid many tributes to my work as President of our country.

You have forgiven, even if perhaps you have not forgotten, my many mistakes of omission and commission.

I am a human being, and we all like our work to be appreciated. So I thank you for what you have said in my praise in so many public and private meetings. And I thank those elected leaders and officials in Government and the Party who by their advice and research work have helped me carry out my duties.

I also thank all those who have implemented my instructions regardless of whether or not they as individuals liked my decisions, or the personal unpopularity they incurred when carrying out their instructions. For there were occasions when others bore the blame for my decisions and even my mistakes – and did so without complaining. I thank them all very much.

We have built a nation – together. The Angel Gabriel could not have been Tanzania alone, still less a fallible human being like myself. Even if the Angel Gabriel had been assisted by Ministers and public servants made up of other Angels, he still could not have built Tanzania. You, the people of Tanzania, acting together and individually, have built Tanzania into what it is – a proud, united, and self-confident nation. I thank you very much.

Julius K. Nyerere

 

[pembe]

Salim A salim was a believer but he is sorrounded by greedies!!

But all in all to conclude this topic We needed and we still need "strong instutions and not strong Leader"

Sent from my BlackBerry 9300 using JamiiForums

Hizo strong institutions zitaendeshwa na nani kama sio watu?

 

[MwanaFalsafa1]

Hizo strong institutions zitaendeshwa na nani kama sio watu?

Thus far the "institutions" are controlled by one man (whoever is the president) and one party (whichever party is in power). Strong institutions simply means a systems of checks and balances so that no one person or one party controls all the decision making. Yes these institutions will be lead by people but they need not feel that they owe loyalty to one person. Sijui kama hapo nimeeleweka...