Ukweli kuhusu mpaka wa Tanzania na Malawi

[Mzalendo JR]

Mt. Kilimanjaro haukuwa kwenye Mkataba wa 1891 na wakati huo both Tanganyika na Kenya zilikuwa chini ya

Muingereza... tunaongelea kabla wakati wa Muingereza - Malawi na Mjerumani - Tanganyika... Tusichanganye

Historia hapa na kujikuta tunaongela VITA VYA IDD AMIN

Tanganyika halikua koloni la Muingereza, ila baada ya kumnyang'anya Mjerumani baada ya vita alipewa British kama MSIMAMIZI na si koloni.

Hii yote ilitokea baada ya Donald Cameroon, governor wa tanganyika kusema kuwa tanganyika is a part of the british empire and it will remain so! hii ni siasa na si ukweli kama unaelewa maana ya kuwa wao hawakuwa wamepewa koloni kama mali yao, bali kuliangalia mapaka wananchi wapate 'akili' ili wapewe uhuru! kwa hiyo, kimsingi, kwa maana ya sheria ya kimataifa, tanganyika haikuwa part ya british empire kama yalivyo makoloni yaliyotekwa mojakwa moja na uingereza yenyewe! hapa pakatokea mvutano mkubwa sana katika house of Lords na house of commons! na hivyo basi, mtafaruku huu wa mpaka ulianzia hapa, kwa kauli hii na hivyo hata waingereza wenyewe walivutana kuhusu mpaka. ipo hivi, mwaka 1926, wajumbe wa mabaraza waliibana serikali iseme mipaka ya tanganyika na ule wa ziwa nyasa!

 

[Mpita Njia]

Umenipata vyema, ndicho hicho nilimaanisha.

Ni jambo linalowezekana iwapo viongozi wa nchi zetu watakuwa wanasoma kwenye script moja, with Africa interests at heart. lakini na huu ukibaraka wa viongozi wengi, itakuwa vigumu (sisemi haiwezekani) sana kufikia azma hiyo. tena huku pembeni kukiwa na ushawishi wa makampuni makubwa (angalia hata hili suala la mpoaka na Malawi, zile kampuni zinazofanya utafiti wa mafuta zinaweza kuwa na ushawishi fulani kwenye suala hili)

 

[Mzalendo JR]

Tatizo mkuu si kudanganyana. binafsi nakubaliana na msimamo wako wa mikataba ya wakoloni, kinachonisumbua zaidi ni treaty ipi na ya mwaka gani tuifuate. Maana inaniwia ngumu kidogo ya kwamba kusini unachukua treaty 1891 ,mashariki treaty 1884, kazikazini magharibi treaty 1919 nk.

Kama dai la mwaka 1891 ni sahihi kwa malawi na kwanini dai la Zanzibar ya kwamba mwambao wote wa Tanzania mpaka kenya ni la Zanzibar? Na kama wa Malawi wakishinda kesi kwa treaty hiyo, nini kitakachowazuia wana uamsho kuchukua pwani yote baada ya kujitoa kwa muungano?
Sasa taratibu naanza kuwaelewa wana uamsho wanamaanisha nini.

Pole bro! Ila cha kutambua ni kwamba mikataba ya Berlin haikugawa mito na maziwa. Maeneo haya yalitangazwa kua FREE TRADE ZONE AREAS kwa minaji ya kusafirisha bidhaa zao. Hivyo maziwa na mito ilikuja kugawiwa kwa mikataba baina ya adjucent colonies (TREATIES). Hapo ndo makubaliano kama lile la 1890-1 yanatokea na mengine. Hivyo ukizingatia umiliki wa rasilimali hizi basi mikataba hii ndio itatumika na si vinginevyo.

 

[fluid]

wakubwa niwekeni sawa, nilikuwa nauliza ziwa nyasa ni ziwa nyasa au ziwa malawi? Na je, kwanini ziwa victoria liendelee kuitwa ziwa victoria na si ziwa nyanza? Au ndio kuwaenzi watawala wetu wazungu?

lake nyasa or lake malawi?
the name of the lake itself is also disputed. Malawi claims the lake is named 'lake malawi' while international maps and other countries (most notably tanzania) claim the name of the lake to be 'lake nyasa'. The origins of the dispute in the name have their background in geopolitical disputes that began prior to malawi's independence in 1964, when it was previously known as nyasaland.

Further complications emerged for different political reasons in the 1960s, when the then president banda (of malawi) became the only african leader to establish diplomatic relations with white south africa. This was fiercely repudiated by other african leaders, including the then president nyerere (of tanzania). The contrasting attitudes and policies gave further impetus to disputes between the two governments, on the name of the lake itself, and the boundary between the two countries.

At present, the dispute between the two governments is largely dormant. Intergovernmental relations between malawi and tanzania are largely cordial.


tanzania-malawi dispute
the partition of the lake area between malawi and tanzania is disputed. Tanzania claims international borders through the lake along the lines of the borders between the german and british territories before 1914; malawi, meanwhile, claims the whole non-mozambican lake, including the waters next to the tanzanian shore. The foundations of the dispute were set when the british colonial government, which had recently captured tanganyika from germany, put the water under the jurisdiction of nyasaland without a separate administration for the tanganyika portion. The dispute has led to conflicts in the past, though for several years malawi has declined to enforce its claims to the disputed portion.

Occasional flare-ups in in the 1990s and in recent times have impacted fishing rights, particularly of tanzanian's who reside on the lake shore, who have occasionally been accused of fishing in malawian waters.

hivi membe anasubiri nini?piga hao watu wasituzoee tena

 

[MkamaP]

Pole bro! Ila cha kutambua ni kwamba mikataba ya Berlin haikugawa mito na maziwa. Maeneo haya yalitangazwa kua FREE TRADE ZONE AREAS kwa minaji ya kusafirisha bidhaa zao. Hivyo maziwa na mito ilikuja kugawiwa kwa mikataba baina ya adjucent colonies (TREATIES). Hapo ndo makubaliano kama lile la 1890-1 yanatokea na mengine. Hivyo ukizingatia umiliki wa rasilimali hizi basi mikataba hii ndio itatumika na si vinginevyo.

Okay, nimekupata
Wakingangnia sana wa Malawi tuwaachie ziwa hakuna haja ya vita. Swali la uchokozi tena na treaty ya mto nile iliwekwa mwaka gani, ni ombi tu kama unajibu nisaidie.

 

[Mzalendo JR]

Okay, nimekupata
Wakingangnia sana wa Malawi tuwaachie ziwa hakuna haja ya vita. Swali la uchokozi tena na treaty ya mto nile iliwekwa mwaka gani, ni ombi tu kama unajibu nisaidie.

Hii ilikua agreement ambayo ilikua ya mwaka 1929 na nyingine 1959. Ambayo pia nchi zinazopitiwa na mto huu zinalalamika juu ya LION SHARE aliopewa Misri. Document ni kubwa ila click link hii utapata mwanga wa agreement hii.

http://www.nileglobemedia.com/documents/The%20Nile%20Treaty%20Revisited.pdf

 

[MkamaP]

Hii ilikua agreement ambayo ilikua ya mwaka 1929 na nyingine 1959. Ambayo pia nchi zinazopitiwa na mto huu zinalalamika juu ya LION SHARE aliopewa Misri. Document ni kubwa ila click link hii utapata mwanga wa agreement hii.

http://www.nileglobemedia.com/documents/The%20Nile%20Treaty%20Revisited.pdf

Okay, nashukuru sana kwa majibu. Na je hii treaty ni halali kwa Tanganyika ? maana ni british ndo waliingia hiyo treaty na british haikuwa mkoloni wa Tanganyika. generally speaking, je hiyo treaty ni halali kwa Tanganyika?

 

[Mzalendo JR]

Okay, nashukuru sana kwa majibu. Na je hii treaty ni halali kwa Tanganyika ? maana ni british ndo waliingia hiyo treaty na british haikuwa mkoloni wa Tanganyika. generally speaking, je hiyo treaty ni halali kwa Tanganyika?

Kwa mtazamo unaojaribu kuujenga ni kwamba TUFANYE UPYA. As far as international law is concerned bado tunaongozwa kwa mikataba iliowekwa na wakoloni wetu. Kwa kesi ya Tanganyika kurithi mikataba ya Britain akati halikua koloni lake nia kwamba alisimama kama mwangalizi wa Tanzanyika hivyo alivaa viatu vya Mjerumani na everythig done on the basis of agreements prevails.
Kwa angalizo pia kuna mwanasheria anaweza kuamkia kushoto na kuhoji juu ya uhalali wake, yet if every action was done in good faith and for the benefit of the colonial territory such as prevention of wars nina hakika atashindwa. Hivyo kuhusu uhalali wa mikataba hii, ni halali hadi pale mahakama ya kimataifa itakapoamua vinginevyo.

 

[MkamaP]

Kwa mtazamo unaojaribu kuujenga ni kwamba TUFANYE UPYA. As far as international law is concerned bado tunaongozwa kwa mikataba iliowekwa na wakoloni wetu. Kwa kesi ya Tanganyika kurithi mikataba ya Britain akati halikua koloni lake nia kwamba alisimama kama mwangalizi wa Tanzanyika hivyo alivaa viatu vya Mjerumani na everythig done on the basis of agreements prevails.
Kwa angalizo pia kuna mwanasheria anaweza kuamkia kushoto na kuhoji juu ya uhalali wake, yet if every action was done in good faith and for the benefit of the colonial territory such as prevention of wars nina hakika atashindwa. Hivyo kuhusu uhalali wa mikataba hii, ni halali hadi pale mahakama ya kimataifa itakapoamua vinginevyo.

Mkuu,
Kulingana na research yako nauliza tena naomba usichoke. Je hakuna kama amendments kokote kalikofanyika toka mwaka 1890 mpaka leo, as far as lake nyasa kicks in?

 

[MARUKENI]

Toa pointi za msingi acha ushabiki wa kipuuzi wakati watu wanajadili mambo ya msingi

 

[Mzalendo JR]

Mkuu,
Kulingana na research yako nauliza tena naomba usichoke. Je hakuna kama amendments kokote kalikofanyika toka mwaka 1890 mpaka leo, as far as lake nyasa kicks in?

Hakuna mabadiliko yoyote yanayotambulika kimataifa kuhusu mpaka huu, na hii ndio inayowapa uhakika kua Malawi wanamiliki ziwa Nyasa kwa upande wa Tanzania ni fukwe tu.

Tafadhali soma kiambatanisho cha Heligoland Treaty/ Anglo German na utagundua nyuzi za latitude zinazotajwa ni OFF-SHORE ya ziwa hili. na pale linapoingia zaidi upande wa TZ pia wanataja kuashiria mpaka ni ufukweni mwa ziwa.

 

[nngu007]

Tanganyika halikua koloni la Muingereza, ila baada ya kumnyang'anya Mjerumani baada ya vita alipewa British kama MSIMAMIZI na si koloni.

Hii yote ilitokea baada ya Donald Cameroon, governor wa tanganyika kusema kuwa tanganyika is a part of the british empire and it will remain so! hii ni siasa na si ukweli kama unaelewa maana ya kuwa wao hawakuwa wamepewa koloni kama mali yao, bali kuliangalia mapaka wananchi wapate 'akili' ili wapewe uhuru! kwa hiyo, kimsingi, kwa maana ya sheria ya kimataifa, tanganyika haikuwa part ya british empire kama yalivyo makoloni yaliyotekwa mojakwa moja na uingereza yenyewe! hapa pakatokea mvutano mkubwa sana katika house of Lords na house of commons! na hivyo basi, mtafaruku huu wa mpaka ulianzia hapa, kwa kauli hii na hivyo hata waingereza wenyewe walivutana kuhusu mpaka. ipo hivi, mwaka 1926, wajumbe wa mabaraza waliibana serikali iseme mipaka ya tanganyika na ule wa ziwa nyasa!

HAPANA MKATABA WA 1891 HAUKUGAWA MT. KILIMANJARO ni BERLIN CONFERENCE NA PIA

KIGOMA ILICHUKULIWA PAMOJA NA URUNDI NA RUANDA MPAKA 1920; TULIPORUDISHIWA

By November 1886 the task is done and the result is agreed with the other main colonial power, France. The sultan is left a strip ten miles wide along the coast. Behind that a line is drawn to Mount Kilimanjaro and on to Lake Victoria at latitude 1° S. The British sphere of influence is to be to the north, the German to the south. The line remains to this day the border between Kenya and Tanzania.


1920s: border resolution

In 1920, by the Tanganyika Order in Council, 1920, the Office of Governor and Commander-in-Chief of the Territory was constituted. The colony was renamed Tanganyika Territory in 1920. In 1921 the Belgians transferred the Kigoma district, which they had administered since the occupation, to British administration. The United Kingdom and Belgium signed an agreement regarding the border between Tanganyika and Ruanda-Urundi in 1924. The administration of the Territory continued to be carried out under the terms of the mandate until its transfer to the Trusteeship System under the Charter of the United Nations by the Trusteeship Agreement of December 13, 1946.

 

[Maarifa]

:israel:GENERAL MWAMMUNYANGE UPO?? MURA!! HEBU WAAMBIYE VIJANA WAKO WA NGERENGERE WAVINJARI DAKIKA KUMI TU PALE ZIWANI HALAFU TUSIKILIZIE, KAMA UNAOGOPA WARUDISHIE WA KINA MURA MWITA CHACHA WAMBURA MATIKO MARWA TATA CHESI RAO HARAFU UONE TATA!! HAKUNA MCHESO WATAIBUKIA LLILONGWE FASTA TU KUFUMBA NA KUFUMBUA!!

 

[MkamaP]

HAPANA MKATABA WA 1891 HAUKUGAWA MT. KILIMANJARO ni BERLIN CONFERENCE NA PIA

KIGOMA ILICHUKULIWA PAMOJA NA URUNDI NA RUANDA MPAKA 1920; TULIPORUDISHIWA

By November 1886 the task is done and the result is agreed with the other main colonial power, France. The sultan is left a strip ten miles wide along the coast. Behind that a line is drawn to Mount Kilimanjaro and on to Lake Victoria at latitude 1° S. The British sphere of influence is to be to the north, the German to the south. The line remains to this day the border between Kenya and Tanzania.


1920s: border resolution

In 1920, by the Tanganyika Order in Council, 1920, the Office of Governor and Commander-in-Chief of the Territory was constituted. The colony was renamed Tanganyika Territory in 1920. In 1921 the Belgians transferred the Kigoma district, which they had administered since the occupation, to British administration. The United Kingdom and Belgium signed an agreement regarding the border between Tanganyika and Ruanda-Urundi in 1924. The administration of the Territory continued to be carried out under the terms of the mandate until its transfer to the Trusteeship System under the Charter of the United Nations by the Trusteeship Agreement of December 13, 1946.

Bado kuna haja ya kutafuta makubaliano zaidi, naamini kuna ji treaty kati ya mwaka 1891 mpaka leo kuna ka treaty kaliko sahihisha na kupeleka mipaka kati kati ya ziwa.

 

[Malunde]

Ukiangalia ramani hii inaonyesha hatuna sehemu kabisa ya ziwa upande wa tanzania.

Tena kuonyesha walakini sehemu hiyo ya mpaka wametumia alama nyekundu tofauti na sehemu nyingine!

Mwizi anaweza kufanya chochote kuhalalisha wizi wake. Mpaka ni kati kwa kati and no more, mtu atakayeliletea swala hili mzaha hataeleweka

 

[LiverpoolFC]

Huyu Mama yaelekea ameshaijua serikali ya ccm ni legelege,lakini ajue ya kwmb tuna jeshi safi ambao hawataiangalia tena serikali ilivyo ila wana uhakika wa kuwang'oa hawa Vimalawi wanaogambagamba hapo ziwani na nina IMANI watajutia maamuzi ya huyu Mwanamama wao!

Hawana adabu hata chembe!
Mambo ya siasa tuna iweka mbali na tunalikombo Taifa letu kwanza!

Hebu wajaribu wanachotaka kufanya na watajua kilichomnyoa kanga ndege manyoa ya shingo!

 

[Electron]

tutajadili sana lakini ukweli unabaki kama tutafuata mipaka ya mkoloni, na mkataba ambao hata Nyerere alisaini, mpaka wetu na Malawi unakomea "on the eastern banks of the lake Nyasa", hivyo kufanya ziwa lote kuwa lao..... huu ubishi na ubabe ktk mgogoro huu wa muda mrefu ni kujaribu kuficha uchemfu wa watendaji na rais wetu wa wakati huo walipokubali kusaini mkataba kimeo............. kwenye mahakama ya kimataifa hatuna chetu...... kwa mjadiliano labda tuwaombe kama kilometa 1 toka ufukweni etc

 

[nngu007]

Bado kuna haja ya kutafuta makubaliano zaidi, naamini kuna ji treaty kati ya mwaka 1891 mpaka leo kuna ka treaty kaliko sahihisha na kupeleka mipaka kati kati ya ziwa.

* HAPA WANASEMA LAKE NYASA HALF NI MALI YA GERMAN EAST AFRICA


GERMAN EAST AFRICA, a country occupying the eastcentral portion of the African continent. The colony extends at its greatest length north to south from 1° to 11° S., and west to east from 30 to 40 E. It is bounded E. by the Indian Ocean (the coast-line extending from 4° 20' to 10 40' S.), N.E. and N. by British East Africa and Uganda, W. by Belgian Congo, S.W. by British Central Africa and S. by Portuguese East Africa.

[TD="align: center"] Table of contents [/TD]

Area and Boundaries

On the north the boundary line runs N.W. from the mouth of the Umba river to Lake Jipe and Mount Kili manjaro, including both in the protectorate, and thence to Victoria Nyanza, crossing it at I° S., which parallel it follows till it reaches 30° E. In the west the frontier is as follows: From the point of intersection of 1 ° S. and 30° E., a line running S. and S.W. to the north-west end of Lake Kivu, thence across that lake near its western shore, and along the river Rusizi, which issues from it, to the spot where the Rusizi enters the north end of Lake Tanganyika; along the middle line of Tanganyika to near its southern end, when it is deflected eastward to the point where the river Kalambo enters the lake (thus leaving the southern end of Tanganyika to Great Britain). From this point the frontier runs S.E. across the plateau between Lakes Tanganyika and Nyasa, in its southern section following the course of the river Songwe. Thence it goes down the middle of Nyasa as far as 11 ° 30' S. The southern frontier goes direct from the last-named point eastward to the Rovuma river, which separates German and Portuguese territory. A little before the Indian Ocean is reached the frontier is deflected south so as to leave the mouth of the Rovuma in German East Africa. These boundaries include an area of about 364,000 sq. m. (nearly double the size of Germany), with a population estimated in 1910 at 8,000,000. Of in Jesus Christ the Saviour, who delivers from the bondage of sin by his life, doctrine and death; in the operation of the Holy Ghost; in a holy, universal, Christian church; in forgiveness of sins and the life everlasting. The Bible was made the sole rule, and all external authority was barred. Within a few weeks :similar communities were formed at Leipzig, Dresden, Berlin, [[[Offenbach]], Worms, Wiesbaden and elsewhere; and at a `"council" convened at Leipzig at Easter 1845, twenty-seven congregations were represented by delegates, of whom only two or at most three were in clerical orders.

Even before the beginning of the agitation led by Ronge, another movement fundamentally distinct, though in some respects similar, had been originated at Schneiderriihl, Posen, under the guidance of Johann Czerski (1813-1893), also a priest, who had come into collision with the church authorities on the then much discussed question of mixed marriages, and also on that PRO r. o e Scale. t:xo,000,00a ' English Miles s o Long.East32°of Greenwich these above 10,000 were Arabs, Indians, Syrians and Goanese, and 3000 Europeans (over 2000 being Germans). The island of Mafia (see below) is included in the protectorate.

Physical Features

The coast of German East Africa (often spoken of as the Swahili coast, after the inhabitants of the seaboard) is chiefly composed of coral, is little indented, and is generally low, partly sandy, partly rich alluvial soil covered with dense bush or mangroves. Where the Arabs have established settlements the coco-palm and mango tree introduced by them give variety to the vegetation. The coast plain is from 10 to 30 m. wide and 620 m. long; it is bordered on the west by the precipitous eastern side of the interior plateau of Central Africa.

This plateau, considerably tilted from its horizontal position, attains its highest elevation north of Lake Nyasa (see Livingstone Mountains), where several peaks rise over 7000 ft., one to 9600, while its mean altitude is about 3000 to 4000 ft. From this region the country slopes towards the north-west, and is not distinguished by any considerable mountain ranges. A deep narrow gorge, the so-called "eastern rift-valley," traverses the middle of the plateau in a meridional direction. In the northern part of the country it spreads into several side valleys, from one of which rises the extinct volcano Kilimanjaro, the highest mountain in Africa (19,321 ft.). Its glaciers send down a thousand rills which combine to form the Pangani river. About 4 0 m. west of Kilimanjaro is Mount Meru (14,955 ft.), another volcanic peak, with a double crater.

The greater steepness of its sides makes Meru in some aspects a more striking object than its taller neighbour. South-east of Mount Kilimanjaro are the Pare Mountains and Usambara highlands, separated from the coast by a comparatively narrow strip of plain. To the south of the Usambara hills, and on the eastern edge of the plateau, are the mountainous regions of Nguru (otherwise Unguru), Useguha and Usagara. As already indicated, the southern half of Victoria Nyanza and the eastern shores, in whole or in part, of Lakes Kivu, Tanganyika and Nyasa, are in German territory. (The lakes are separately described.) Several smaller lakes occur in parts of the eastern rif tvalley. Lake Rukwa north-west of Nyasa is presumably only the remnant of a much larger lake.

Its extent varies with the rainfall of each year. North-west of Kilimanjaro is a sheet of water known as the Natron Lake from the mineral alkali it contains. In the northern part of the colony the Victoria Nyanza is the dominant physical feature. The western frontier coincides with part of the eastern wall of another depression, the Central African or Albertine rift-valley, in which lie Tanganyika, Kivu and other lakes. Along the north-west frontier north of Kivu are volcanic peaks (see Mfumbiro).

The country is well watered, but with the exception of the Rufiji the rivers, save for a few miles from their mouths, are unnavigable. The largest streams are the Rovuma and Rufiji (q.v.), both rising in the central plateau and flowing to the Indian Ocean. Next in importance is the Pangani river, which, as stated above, has its head springs on the slopes of Kilimanjaro. Flowing in a south-easterly direction it reaches the sea after a course of some 250 m. The Wami and Kingani, smaller streams, have their origin in the mountainous region fringing the central plateau, and reach the ocean opposite the island of Zanzibar.

Of inland river systems there are four - one draining to Victoria Nyanza, another to Tanganyika, third to Nyasa and a fourth to Rukwa. Into Victoria Nyanza are emptied, on the east, the waters of the Mori and many smaller streams; on the west, the Kagera, besides smaller rivers. Into Tanganyika flows the Malagarasi, a considerable river with many affluents, draining the west-central part of the plateau. The Kalambo river, a comparatively small stream near the southern end of Tanganyika, flows in a south-westerly direction. Not far from its mouth there is a magnificent fall, a large volume of water falling boo ft. sheer over a rocky ledge of horse-shoe shape. Of the streams entering Nyasa the Songwe has been mentioned. The Ruhuhu, which enters Nyasa in 10° 30' S., and its tributaries drain a considerable area west of 36° E. The chief feeders of Lake Rukwa are the Saisi and the Rupa-Songwe.

Mafia Island lies off the coast immediately north of 8° N. It has an area of 200 sq. m. The island is low and fertile, and extensively planted with coco-nut palms. It is continued southwards by an extensive reef, on which stands the chief village, Chobe, the residence of a few Arabs and Ban y an traders. Chobe stands on a shallow creek almost inaccessible to shipping.

 

[MkamaP]

@nnungu007

Safi sana mkuu, sasa cha mhimu tuitafute hiyo treaty inayosema mpaka unapita katikati ya ziwa nyasa tutakuwa tumemaliza kazi.

 

[baajun]

Mimi hiyo nimeiona siku nyingi sana kuhusu ziwa Nyasa.Kwa kweli inavyoonekana ziwa lote wamepewa wamalawi.Kwanini nasema hivyo ,kwani kuna siku za nyuma kuna meli zilikuwa zinakuja kuuza sukari kutoka malawi na zinapiga naga ndani ya maji na watu wanakwenda kuchukua magunia ya sukali bila hata askari wetu kusema lolte lile.Sasa nashangaa eti Watanzania wanashituka sasa hivi.Huu ugomvi nakumbuka wa muda mrefu sana.na haujapatiwa suruhisho.