This is why I am a Mnyika fan, not disapointed yet

[Mtumishi Wetu]

I anticipated this and pointed out in the original post "I know how rhetoric can be overrated".

I also noted that, before the implements, there has to be a coherent dialogue.

As much as you don't want to Hasheem Thabeet Mnyika, you also don't want to discourage the right rhetoric by being overly frugal with giving credit where it is rightfully due. Part of the Mnyika appeal to me is that he seems to be a soberly consistent person in a sea of power drunk politicos.

I did not say Mnyika is the Messiah, to the contrary, I stressed the fallibility of man. I merely gave credit to his rhetoric. Recognizing rhetoric for what it is.

Hapo ni kweli nimekuelewa lakini tusimvimbishe kichwa bado ana safari ndefu ya kwenda, cos the purpose of life is to matter,to be productive,to be useful, to have it make a difference that you lived at all!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Chamoto]

Lakini hongera zake kwa kuwa open, kuzungumza clearly na kuweka msimamo wake wazi kwa polisi, umma na hata bunge! Kama hilo ndio sifa mnayompa, poa!

Kwani unadhani kuwa na msimamo siyo sifa? Kumbuka huwezi kuwa mtekelezaji kama hauna msimamo.

 

[Gagurito]

mkuu umejitahidi sana kutetea hoja yako, no doubt ur realy mnyika's fan!

 

[Mtazamaji]

mkuu umejitahidi sana kutetea hoja yako, no doubt ur realy mnyika's fan!

Kiranga sio mnyika fan. We hujampata. He just wish and watend Regia Mtema ndo angekuwa na uwezo wa kujenga hoja na kujielezea kama mnyika. teh teh teh We all wish so teh teh teh.

Mi naunga unga kikanumba hapa lakini nimeshamsoma

 

[Taso]

... I merely gave credit to his rhetoric. Recognizing rhetoric for what it is.

Kumbe unamsifu kwa balagha tu, nilidhani unatuambia kizito zaidi. Na hata hivyo, si kweli amepandisha viwango. Kina hayati Kambarage walikuwa weledi mahsusi wa balagha, na wanafunzi wake, kina Benjamin na Edward, marehemu, Allah amrehemu. Na haikusaidia. William katuuza, Edward "kauliwa," Kambarage kang'atuka (kilugha, Kiswahili kakimbia), kachaniwa Azimio la Arusha Zanzibar, kafa, kasahaulika, kapita, ufisadi umerudi kwa kwenda mbele, funika kombe mwanaharamu apite. Lakini kwa kuongea humshindi Kambarage, John Mnyika hajaleta viwango vipya.

Hatutaki balagha na porojo, kina Magufuli wanatosha, na wametuchosha, tunataka vitendo.

Time to give the bro some applause in the name of raising the bar to the next level.

 

[Kiranga]

Have not seen anything special hapa...

If you choose to see nothing special, you can argue that there is nothing special with the entire universe and all in it.

au ni kujieleza kwake vizuri?

Mazee kusoma unajua au la?

Kwanza inaelekea kanuni za bunge zinampiga chenga.

Kanuni gani? Lets go toe to toe with the specifics.

Na zimepiga wengi humu ndani chenga!

Wengi wanaweza kukujumuisha na wewe pia.

Facts zinazofichwa:

Au zinazoweza kuwa irrelevant to the issue.

1. Mbowe alijipeleka kwa polisi.

Irrelevant kama kafuatwa na polisi au kaenda polisi, kulikuwa na court issued arrest warrant.

Polisi hawakwenda kumtafuta kwa hiyo sioni sababu ya wao kuhitajika barua ya kwenda kwa Spika/katibu wa Bunge kuomba ruhusa ya kumkamata Mbowe!

Mahakama ilishatoa arrest warrant kwa polisi, the judiciary/ executive overreach must be checked in a democratic society, especially when it comes to a matter concerning a totalitarian silencing of the opposition.

2. Kanuni za bunge zinalinda specifically against civil procedures.

The whole brouhaha is about "unlawful assembly" well within the confines of the protection of parliamentary privileges. This is just a totalitarian twist to enforce the ruling part's cabal.

a) Ni wazi kuwa hii ni a criminal issue, kwa hiyo hizo kanuni zinaweza zisiwe applicable.

Mbunge kukataa totalitarian bureaucracy zilizovishwa nguo ya "unlawful assembly" is hardly criminal. This is what leads me to say the whole issue is well under parliamntary privileges. Huwezi kutaka kumkamata mbunge eti kwa sababu alikuwa anafanya kazi zake za kibunge bila kibali chako wewe polisi. Where are the checks and balances here?

b) mifano ya Mnyika haipo sahihi. Mbunge aliyemtolea mfano kwa kosa la kuua alikuwa anatakiwa kwa kuswaliwa, na sio kuwa arrested. Hii ishu ya Mbowe ni arrest na sio kumswali. Tofauti ya hayo mawili ni kubwa sana.

Hizi habari za "kutakiwa kwa kuswaliwa" (I think you mean kuhojiwa, kuswaliwa is something entirely different) ni characteristics za totalitarian governments. Nchi zinazojua utawala wa sheria, polisi wakija kukutafuta wanaku arrest au hawaku arrest.

Kwangu mimi whether polisi wananitaka kwa kuni arrest au kunihoji tu it does not make a difference, bottom line vyote viwili ni inconveniences, Mfano wa Mnyika bado uko sahihi, hii habari ya "kuhoji vs kumkamata" ni mbinu ya watawala kuhakikisha wanaweza kukuchukua bila hata ya official warrant.

Lakini hongera zake kwa kuwa open, kuzungumza clearly na kuweka msimamo wake wazi kwa polisi, umma na hata bunge! Kama hilo ndio sifa mnayompa, poa!

Ushasema hamna chochote special, sasa hongera za nini? Au una flip flop?

 

[toxic]

Ushaona watu wa Lowest Common Denominator hao, fikra zote ziko katika some basic instincts tu kama some invertebrate arachnids.Halafu nikitaka ku weed out some oxygen sucking plankton, watu wanalalamika kama Maimuna. You see my point ?

I envy you,nimependa sana kidhungu broda,endelea kumwaga ngeli,napenda kujifunza kwako.

 

[Kiranga]

Kumbe unamsifu kwa balagha tu, nilidhani unatuambia kizito zaidi. Na hata hivyo, si kweli amepandisha viwango. Kina hayati Kambarage walikuwa weledi mahsusi wa balagha, na wanafunzi wake, kina Benjamin na Edward, marehemu, Allah amrehemu. Na haikusaidia. William katuuza, Edward "kauliwa," Kambarage kang'atuka (kilugha, Kiswahili kakimbia), kachaniwa Azimio la Arusha Zanzibar, kafa, kasahaulika, kapita, ufisadi umerudi kwa kwenda mbele, funika kombe mwanaharamu apite. Lakini kwa kuongea humshindi Kambarage, John Mnyika hajaleta viwango vipya.

Hatutaki balagha na porojo, kina Magufuli wanatosha, na wametuchosha, tunataka vitendo.

Kila generation ina watu wake, huwezi kung'ang'ania umahiri wa kina Imhotep katika enzi za kina Ghonim.

Mnyika anapandisha kiwango cha rhetoric katika kizazi hiki.

Again, unless unataka udikteta, huwezi kupata vitendo bila mjadala.

Halafu ukimfuatilia Mnyika utaona ana vitendo vingi far and above rhetoric, case in point, kumefanyika mkutano wa kwanza kuwakutanisha washika dau wa jimbo lake kuhusu tatizo la maji, na sasa kuna mazungumzo ya kuondoa monopoly ya ugavi wa maji ili private operators waweze kufunga mitambo ya maji as a result of this powwow.

Nationally Mnyika kapeleka muswada wa mabadiliko ya katiba bungeni, very central to uprooting this overindulging falsely entitled regime.

Kabla ya kukandia research.

 

[Kiranga]

Kiranga sio mnyika fan. We hujampata. He just wish and watend Regia Mtema ndo angekuwa na uwezo wa kujenga hoja na kujielezea kama mnyika. teh teh teh We all wish so teh teh teh.

Mi naunga unga kikanumba hapa lakini nimeshamsoma

I wish everybody was this eloquent and conversant with the issues. Labda hapo wabunge wangeelewa wanatakiwa kufanya nini.

 

[Chapakazi]

If you choose to see nothing special, you can argue that there is nothing special with the entire universe and all in it.



Mazee kusoma unajua au la?
Hapana...sijui!



Kanuni gani? Lets go toe to toe with the specifics.
Kasome kanuni za bunge


Wengi wanaweza kukujumuisha na wewe pia.
upupu


Au zinazoweza kuwa irrelevant to the issue.
hujasema issue ni nini!

Irrelevant kama kafuatwa na polisi au kaenda polisi, kulikuwa na court issued arrest warrant.
Kwa hiyo tatizo sio polisi bila ni mahakama kutoa arrest warrant - afadhali umeelewa hilo


Mahakama ilishatoa arrest warrant kwa polisi, the judiciary/ executive overreach must be checked in a democratic society, especially when it comes to a matter concerning a totalitarian silencing of the opposition.
your interpretation of the situation but not the courts


The whole brouhaha is about "unlawful assembly" well within the confines of the protection of parliamentary privileges. This is just a totalitarian twist to enforce the ruling part's cabal.
again...ur interpretation which is highly politicalized!. Unlawful assembly ya Arusha haina link yeyote hapa. Tatizo ni kutotokea kwa mbunge mahakamani! Unachanganya vitu vingi huku ili kuleta confusion tu! Same thing kwenye ile thread ya Azimio la Arusha...hahaha!


Mbunge kukataa totalitarian bureaucracy zilizovishwa nguo ya "unlawful assembly" is hardly criminal. This is what leads me to say the whole issue is well under parliamntary privileges. Huwezi kutaka kumkamata mbunge eti kwa sababu alikuwa anafanya kazi zake za kibunge bila kibali chako wewe polisi. Where are the checks and balances here?
Kama sheria ipo, lazima ifuatwe. Hiyo ndio maana ya utawala wa sheria! Iliyo provide Check and balances ni mahakama. Ambayo baada ya Mbowe kupelekwa na kueleza sababu zake alipewa dhamana na kuruhusiwa kuendelea na kazi zake kama mbunge. At the end of the day, the court should have the last say katika society inayofuata utawala wa sheria maana wao ndio wanatoa interpretation ya sheria.


Hizi habari za "kutakiwa kwa kuswaliwa" (I think you mean kuhojiwa, kuswaliwa is something entirely different) ni characteristics za totalitarian governments. Nchi zinazojua utawala wa sheria, polisi wakija kukutafuta wanaku arrest au hawaku arrest.
mhh...sijui kama umefanya kazi na wanasheria au na polisi katika nchi zilizoendelea! Inaelekea hujui procedures kabisa.
kuhojiwa might be the better word...asante, lakini point bado ni ile ile!

Kwangu mimi whether polisi wananitaka kwa kuni arrest au kunihoji tu it does not make a difference, bottom line vyote viwili ni inconveniences, Mfano wa Mnyika bado uko sahihi, hii habari ya "kuhoji vs kumkamata" ni mbinu ya watawala kuhakikisha wanaweza kukuchukua bila hata ya official warrant.
inconvinient kwako lakini muhimu katika kazi zao. its part of the procedure katika kufanya kazi kwa ufasaha!


Ushasema hamna chochote special, sasa hongera za nini? Au una flip flop?
hukuelewa maana ya statement yangu ya kwanza na hii ya mwisho!! Wewe umesifia kama vile amezungumza something out of the box! Wakati ni very ordinary! Pongezi ni kwa ajili ya msimamo wake na actions alizochukua.

Majibu in red.

 

[Kiranga]

Majibu in red.

Hujui kusoma halafu unaniambia nikasome kanuni za bunge?

Wewe unayekuja hapa kutuambia kanuni za bunge, kwa kutaka kutushawishi, unatupa mzigo wa kusoma kanuni za bunge zote bila hata ya ku specify unaongelea kanuni gani? Hata huko kanisani wanakupa kitabu na aya za kusoma.

Unaonekana huelewi nature ya oppressive regimes kama hii yetu, ambapo mahakama na polisi vyote vinaweza kutumika kama vinyangarika vya serikali kuu tu katika mbinu zake za kuwaziba midomo wanasiasa wa upinzani, mimi sijali kuhusu technical detail za arrest (court vs police). Ninachojali hapa mbunge anatishwa kwa kutimiza wajibu wake wa kukutana na wananchi. Msitake kutuletea uduanzi wa bureaucracy hapa.

My interpretation matters. I am a Tanzanian citizen, and I have the power - at least in theory- to lobby changes in laws, which will in turn change the interpretation of the law. So don't even try to discount a citizens take.Beneath all this lawyerly layers of lalapalooza loopholes of rulers Draconia, I can see clearly their totalitarian pangs.

The underlying principles behind Utawala wa sheria ni zaidi ya mahakama. Principles hizi zinampa nafasi mwananchi kukemea sheria dhalili pia, na hata kumtaka afanye "civil disobedience" ikibidi. This has been practiced sbefore Thoreau, Gandhi, Mandela etc.

 

[mgenimjihuu]

Wanaosema hawajaona Mnyika alichofanya kiutendaji either ni watu wanaompiga vita kwa sababu binafsi, au sio wakazi wa jimbo la Ubungo. Kuna wakazi wa jimbo hilo wameshaanza kuona matokeo ya utendaji wake katika kufuatilia miradi ya maji, barabara pamoja na usalama wa raia. Haihitaji kwenda gazetini kila siku kuripoti the slightest achievement ndio watu wajue linalofanyiwa kazi. Mnyika aje kubadilika kwa sababu zake mwenyewe, lakini ni kijana mwenye akili na kujituma kiutendaji, hopefully ataperform fully to his potential, with or without the support of the government.

 

[Ben Saanane]

Mhh...Kiranga! This last Nonentity?.....(let me subscribe to your suggestion,i will ignore it,ha ha ha)

When he lost 2005 Election, he had a date with history, with destiny. He decided to be more recusant rather than being recumbent. He decided to be more quixotic rather than being laisser-faire- to challenge destiny destiny the more rather than relapsing into a cocoon of levity, or into a cocoon of political narcissisms.

Now the cosmic afforded him the lacuna to give a vivacious and vibrant representation to his constituency.

My Take; As for you Kiranga, Please spare your Audience with your Jaw-cracking words.You need to tender an unreserved apologia to your JF colleagues and all those who feel that your language is obscurantist. Try not to set out deliberately to mystify your audience, to deposit your audience in a portmanteau of indecipherability or in portmanteau of conundrum. No, no, no, no! spare them Ha ha ha ha!(I'm kidding).

Let the cosmic force take the better of you,reduce it radically.Please try to ensure that your language, or your idiolect is as limpid and as diaphanous as possible.Lol!

 

[kipipili]

msitishike na kiingereza cha Kiranga, mbona hata mtoto wa darasa la nne anakiweza

 

[Chapakazi]

Hujui kusoma halafu unaniambia nikasome kanuni za bunge?

Wewe unayekuja hapa kutuambia kanuni za bunge, kwa kutaka kutushawishi, unatupa mzigo wa kusoma kanuni za bunge zote bila hata ya ku specify unaongelea kanuni gani? Hata huko kanisani wanakupa kitabu na aya za kusoma.

Unaonekana huelewi nature ya oppressive regimes kama hii yetu, ambapo mahakama na polisi vyote vinaweza kutumika kama vinyangarika vya serikali kuu tu katika mbinu zake za kuwaziba midomo wanasiasa wa upinzani, mimi sijali kuhusu technical detail za arrest (court vs police). Ninachojali hapa mbunge anatishwa kwa kutimiza wajibu wake wa kukutana na wananchi. Msitake kutuletea uduanzi wa bureaucracy hapa.

My interpretation matters. I am a Tanzanian citizen, and I have the power - at least in theory- to lobby changes in laws, which will in turn change the interpretation of the law. So don't even try to discount a citizens take.Beneath all this lawyerly layers of lalapalooza loopholes of rulers Draconia, I can see clearly their totalitarian pangs.

The underlying principles behind Utawala wa sheria ni zaidi ya mahakama. Principles hizi zinampa nafasi mwananchi kukemea sheria dhalili pia, na hata kumtaka afanye "civil disobedience" ikibidi. This has been practiced sbefore Thoreau, Gandhi, Mandela etc.

hahaha...God have mercy!
the rumblings of a man w/out knowledge!
Yea...sijui kusoma ndio maana nikaweza kuzisoma hizo kanuni za bunge.
Nenda kajifunze jinsi ya kufanya research kwanza, then hutakuja kuomba sources za kile information.
Polisi wamekuwa oppresive vipi kwa kumpeleka Mbowe mahakamani???
Mahakama imekuwa oppressive vipi kwa kutimiza jukumu lake? Huwezi kuikebehi mahakama hata siku moja.
Kaulize mwanasheria yeyote.
Nipe mfano wa mwanasiasi aliyezibwa mdogo kinyume cha sheria kama unavyodai wewe...
Kama sheria zipo oppresive, lazima uwe creative kupitisha ujumbe wako. Sio unapigana na moto kwa moto.
Umetoa mfano wa SA. Oppresive laws, kilichozishinda ilikuwa ni nini? Civil disobedience? Weak minds resort to such measure maana hawapo creative enough ku-think outside.
Na hapo ndio maana nimempa huyu bwana hongera, maana katumia measures nzuri ku-combat hiyo oppression anayoisema!
Muombe atoe na jibu alilopata kutoka barua yake aliyoandika kwa Spika...ili tujue zaidi!

 

[Kiranga]

Mhh...Kiranga! This last Nonentity?.....(let me subscribe to your suggestion,i will ignore it,ha ha ha)

When he lost 2005 Election, he had a date with history, with destiny. He decided to be more recusant rather than being recumbent. He decided to be more quixotic rather than being laisser-faire- to challenge destiny destiny the more rather than relapsing into a cocoon of levity, or into a cocoon of political narcissisms.

Now the cosmic afforded him the lacuna to give a vivacious and vibrant representation to his constituency.

My Take; As for you Kiranga, Please spare your Audience with your Jaw-cracking words.You need to tender an unreserved apologia to your JF colleagues and all those who feel that your language is obscurantist. Try not to set out deliberately to mystify your audience, to deposit your audience in a portmanteau of indecipherability or in portmanteau of conundrum. No, no, no, no! spare them Ha ha ha ha!(I'm kidding).

Let the cosmic force take the better of you,reduce it radically.Please try to ensure that your language, or your idiolect is as limpid and as diaphanous as possible.Lol!

Hahaaaaaaaaaa,

Ben umezibuuuka kuliko the Kissinger rescuing Ben Mkapa!

Look who is talking now, dispensing some medicine you could hardly swallow. And then some people have the temerity to accuse me of perpetuating a bombast pomposity!

 

[Kiranga]

hahaha...God have mercy!
the rumblings of a man w/out knowledge!
Yea...sijui kusoma ndio maana nikaweza kuzisoma hizo kanuni za bunge.
Nenda kajifunze jinsi ya kufanya research kwanza, then hutakuja kuomba sources za kile information.
Polisi wamekuwa oppresive vipi kwa kumpeleka Mbowe mahakamani???
Mahakama imekuwa oppressive vipi kwa kutimiza jukumu lake? Huwezi kuikebehi mahakama hata siku moja.
Kaulize mwanasheria yeyote.
Nipe mfano wa mwanasiasi aliyezibwa mdogo kinyume cha sheria kama unavyodai wewe...
Kama sheria zipo oppresive, lazima uwe creative kupitisha ujumbe wako. Sio unapigana na moto kwa moto.
Umetoa mfano wa SA. Oppresive laws, kilichozishinda ilikuwa ni nini? Civil disobedience? Weak minds resort to such measure maana hawapo creative enough ku-think outside.
Na hapo ndio maana nimempa huyu bwana hongera, maana katumia measures nzuri ku-combat hiyo oppression anayoisema!
Muombe atoe na jibu alilopata kutoka barua yake aliyoandika kwa Spika...ili tujue zaidi!

Wewe mwenye knowledge umeshindwa hata kutaja kanuni ya bunge unayo base arguments zako kutoka kwayo.

Knowledge my left foot, unaijua knowledge weye?

 

[Chapakazi]

Wewe mwenye knowledge umeshindwa hata kutaja kanuni ya bunge unayo base arguments zako kutoka kwayo.

Knowledge my left foot, unaijua knowledge weye?

no...not really!

 

[Kiranga]

no...not really!

Don't be fronting then.

 

[kany]

Huyu Mnyika alichofanya nini so far to wananchi hadi awe praised as if amesha deliver any goods?au ni bla bla tu za maneno/siasa mingi kama tulivyo wabongo,then results ni zero?Huwa nachoka sana,mnaposifiana kisa mtu ana uwezo wa kuongea jukwaani au na waandishi wa habari.Ukiuliza alichofanya nini?Utaletewa hadithi za kalume kenge na porojo kibao!

Mpe ridhaa ya kuchukua kodi kwa wananchi uone kama hatafanya! Kodi wanachukua mafisadi halafu unamlaumu mtu mwingine????