Swali la kizushi kwa Kiranga.


T

Tiger

JF-Expert Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2007
Messages
1,751
Likes
49
Points
145
T

Tiger

JF-Expert Member
Joined Nov 30, 2007
1,751 49 145
Salamu wana jf.
Kuna baadhi ya posts nimemsikia kiranga akisema huwa anakwenda kanisani kuudhulia matukio mbalimbali ikiwemo ndoa.
Leo kwakuwa ni juma pili nimejikuta nikijiuliza, kiranga akienda kanisani huwa anakuwa anasali na kusikiliza mahubiri kama watu wengine au huwa anasubiri tu ibada iishe ili aendelee na mambo yake mengine?
Je, huwa anachukuliaje swala zima la ibada akiwa kanisani?
Note: kiranga ni atheist.
Karibuni.
 
Mkuu wa chuo

Mkuu wa chuo

JF-Expert Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2011
Messages
7,259
Likes
283
Points
180
Mkuu wa chuo

Mkuu wa chuo

JF-Expert Member
Joined Feb 3, 2011
7,259 283 180
Kiranga ni mtu mbishi sana anaweza bishana na wanachama wote wa jf na akawashinda, lakini huwa napenda sana kusoma mabandiko yake, Anavyoshusha vitu hadi unapenda. Ni mmoja ya vichwa ninaowakubali sana humu jf, ngojea tumsikilizie...
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Watu8

Watu8

JF-Expert Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2010
Messages
47,602
Likes
3,194
Points
280
Watu8

Watu8

JF-Expert Member
Joined Feb 19, 2010
47,602 3,194 280
ngoja aje mwenyewe atupe majibu...
 
Brooklyn

Brooklyn

JF-Expert Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2009
Messages
1,460
Likes
54
Points
145
Brooklyn

Brooklyn

JF-Expert Member
Joined Mar 17, 2009
1,460 54 145
Mimi siku zote huwa nafurahia post zake. Kuhusu uwepo ama kutokuwepo kwa mungu binafsi nakubaliana na yeye kwa 100%. Hakuna kiashirio chochote hapa ulimwenguni kinathibitisha uwepo wa mungu.

Hii dhana nzima ya mungu imeletwa na binadamu kwa sababu mbalimbali.

Binafsi huwa siendi hata siku moja kusali/kuswali ama kuabudu. Ila nashiriki katika mambo yote ya kijamii kama msiba, harusi n.k. Na kama msiba unafanyikia kanisani huwa naenda na wala sihisi chochote kinachohusiana na hiyo imani ya mungu.

Kwangu mimi makanisa, misikiti and the like yanatumika kwa namna tofauti tofauti, mfano

1. Yapo ambayo yanatumika kuwapa watu moyo wa kuendelea kupambana na maisha na kuboresha hali zao za kiuchumi, kijamii na nk

2. Yapo ambayo yanatumika kuwalaghai watu ili wajanja wachache wajipatie vipato kwa kuwajaza watu woga na imani mbofu mbofu (brain washing)

3. Yapo ambayo yanatumika kunufaisha mamlaka za kiutawala e.g serikali n.k kuwatisha watu wasidai haki zao kwa kuaminishwa kuwa mungu anawaona na anakataza kulipa visasi. Yeye (mungu) ndio pekee mwenye kuhukumu watu. Na hapa ndipo zikaja dhana za "akupigaye shavu la kushoto mgeuzie na la kulia" na samehe saba mara sabini n.k n.k

4. Pia zipo taasisi za kidini ambazo hazijui hata zipo kwa sababu gani/ kwa interest ya nani. Wao huwa ni bendera hufuata upepo.


Ngoja tumsubiri mwenyewe kiranga aje ukumbini...
 
Kiranga

Kiranga

JF-Expert Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2009
Messages
41,613
Likes
15,625
Points
280
Kiranga

Kiranga

JF-Expert Member
Joined Jan 29, 2009
41,613 15,625 280
Kanisani kuna mafunzo mengi tu mazuri. Na utapeli wa hali ambayo haijafikiwa pengine popote.

Nikiwa katika mood au sababu ya kujumuika na watu, naweza kwenda si kanisani tu, bali hata kwenye ma temple ya dini nyingine.Nimejifunza umuhimu wa kuhoji kutoka kwa Socrates as much as nilivyojifunza kutoka kwa Lord Buddha. Nimejifunza kwamba majibu ya ukristo hayatoshelezi kutoka kwa Thomas Aquinas, St. Augustine na Anselm. Nikijaliwa kuingia kanisani nikakuta mhubiri/ mchungaji aliyesoma hawa waandishi wa classics na kuwatumia katika mahubiri yake mahubiri yanakuwa as much kuhusu dini as kuhusu philosophy na theology.

Nitachukua mazuri na kuacha mabaya. Na of course kuangalia maktaba zao na ikiwezekana kumuomba mchungaji tupate one on one.

Kujifunza ni rahisi zaidi kama unachanganyika na watu usiokubaliana nao kuliko unaokubaliana nao.

Miye si atheist anayechukia dini moja kwa moja, naiona dini kama mtumbwi uliotuvusha mto wa ujinga, sasa hatuna haja na mtumbwi huu kwa sababu tushavuka mto wa ujinga lakini tunaendelea kuubeba, unakuwa mzigo usio wa lazima.
 
T

Tiger

JF-Expert Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2007
Messages
1,751
Likes
49
Points
145
T

Tiger

JF-Expert Member
Joined Nov 30, 2007
1,751 49 145
Kanisani kuna mafunzo mengi tu mazuri. Na utapeli wa hali ambayo haijafikiwa pengine popote.

Nikiwa katika mood au sababu ya kujumuika na watu, naweza kwenda si kanisani tu, bali hata kwenye ma temple ya dini nyingine.Nimejifunza umuhimu wa kuhoji kutoka kwa Socrates as much as nilivyojifunza kutoka kwa Lord Buddha. Nimejifunza kwamba majibu ya ukristo hayatoshelezi kutoka kwa Thomas Aquinas, St. Augustine na Anselm. Nikijaliwa kuingia kanisani nikakuta mhubiri/ mchungaji aliyesoma hawa waandishi wa classics na kuwatumia katika mahubiri yake mahubiri yanakuwa as much kuhusu dini as kuhusu philosophy na theology.

Nitachukua mazuri na kuacha mabaya. Na of course kuangalia maktaba zao na ikiwezekana kumuomba mchungaji tupate one on one.

Kujifunza ni rahisi zaidi kama unachanganyika na watu usiokubaliana nao kuliko unaokubaliana nao.

Miye si atheist anayechukia dini moja kwa moja, naiona dini kama mtumbwi uliotuvusha mto wa ujinga, sasa hatuna haja na mtumbwi huu kwa sababu tushavuka mto wa ujinga lakini tunaendelea kuubeba, unakuwa mzigo usio wa lazima.
Tukibakia huko huko kanisani,
vipi linapokuja swala la kusali baadhi ya sala kwa sauti au kufanya ishara ya msalabu, huwa unafanya?
Kama ndiyo unajisikiaje au hufanyi toka moyoni?
 
Kiranga

Kiranga

JF-Expert Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2009
Messages
41,613
Likes
15,625
Points
280
Kiranga

Kiranga

JF-Expert Member
Joined Jan 29, 2009
41,613 15,625 280
Tukibakia huko huko kanisani,
vipi linapokuja swala la kusali baadhi ya sala kwa sauti au kufanya ishara ya msalabu, huwa unafanya?
Kama ndiyo unajisikiaje au hufanyi toka moyoni?
Mie nimezaliwa katika familia ya Kikristo.Protestants. Na hata nilipokuwa mdogo, wakati bado nilipokuwa naamini, kuna mara nilikuwa naenda kanisani kwa rafiki zangu Catholics.The church here started to function as a social club very early in my life.

Kwetu hakuna ishara ya msalaba. Nilipokuwa naenda kusali kanisani kwa rafiki zangu Catholic walipokuwa wanafanya ishara ya msalaba mimi sikufanya, kwa sababu si kitu ambacho nimezoea/ najua kufanya.

Sikujisikia vibaya kwa sababu sikufanya out of disrespect.

Na hata nikiamua kufanya sala/ ishara ya msalaba leo, sitaona vibaya kwamba haitoki moyoni.

Unapokuwa katikati ya mchezo wa kuigiza huwezi kujisikia vibaya kwamba unacheza mchezo wa kuigiza na lines hazitoki moyoni.

Sala kanisani ni mchezo wa kuigiza. Tunaigiza kama kuna mungu anayejali na kutusikia wakati mostly tunajua hizi ni habari za kujifariji kisaikolojia tu.

And another thing, the whole "kutoka moyoni" thing is a medieval ruse. Unless you want to invoke metaphorical poetry. Moyo una pump damu, haufikirii. And the intellect may very well decide to play along with the church charade in a funeral for example, simply out of respect.
 
Kiranga

Kiranga

JF-Expert Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2009
Messages
41,613
Likes
15,625
Points
280
Kiranga

Kiranga

JF-Expert Member
Joined Jan 29, 2009
41,613 15,625 280
Menzio kaandika anaamini halafu wewe unamuuliza tena kama anaamini au anajua!!
Ushawahi kuona mtu anasema kitu halafu anaulizwa "Are you sure?" ?

Tushaona katika thread tofauti hapa watu wakichanganya kuamini na kujua.
 
Dr. Wansegamila

Dr. Wansegamila

JF-Expert Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2012
Messages
1,397
Likes
1,257
Points
280
Dr. Wansegamila

Dr. Wansegamila

JF-Expert Member
Joined Feb 3, 2012
1,397 1,257 280
To be honesty, i really appreciate this guy anaitwa kiranga, coz kwa kweli huwa anajikita katika kutoa hoja, hana muda wa kutukana mtu au kuongelea mtu, and huwa anajua how to explain hoja zake, though sikubaliani with most of his beliefs..........
 
T

Tiger

JF-Expert Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2007
Messages
1,751
Likes
49
Points
145
T

Tiger

JF-Expert Member
Joined Nov 30, 2007
1,751 49 145
Mie nimezaliwa katika familia ya Kikristo.Protestants. Na hata nilipokuwa mdogo, wakati bado nilipokuwa naamini, kuna mara nilikuwa naenda kanisani kwa rafiki zangu Catholics.The church here started to function as a social club very early in my life.

Kwetu hakuna ishara ya msalaba. Nilipokuwa naenda kusali kanisani kwa rafiki zangu Catholic walipokuwa wanafanya ishara ya msalaba mimi sikufanya, kwa sababu si kitu ambacho nimezoea/ najua kufanya.

Sikujisikia vibaya kwa sababu sikufanya out of disrespect.

Na hata nikiamua kufanya sala/ ishara ya msalaba leo, sitaona vibaya kwamba haitoki moyoni.

Unapokuwa katikati ya mchezo wa kuigiza huwezi kujisikia vibaya kwamba unacheza mchezo wa kuigiza na lines hazitoki moyoni.

Sala kanisani ni mchezo wa kuigiza. Tunaigiza kama kuna mungu anayejali na kutusikia wakati mostly tunajua hizi ni habari za kujifariji kisaikolojia tu.

And another thing, the whole "kutoka moyoni" thing is a medieval ruse. Unless you want to invoke metaphorical poetry. Moyo una pump damu, haufikirii. And the intellect may very well decide to play along with the church charade in a funeral for example, simply out of respect.
Dah!
Kwahiyo wakati wenzako wako serious, we unaona maigizo tu!
Si mchezo.
Hiyo kutoka moyoni nilitaka kumaanisha "to feel what you are doing".
By the way kuna scholars wanaamini it's the heart which creates feelings from the magnect forces originated by it(the heart), depending on the thoughts we have.
 
Kiranga

Kiranga

JF-Expert Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2009
Messages
41,613
Likes
15,625
Points
280
Kiranga

Kiranga

JF-Expert Member
Joined Jan 29, 2009
41,613 15,625 280
Dah!
Kwahiyo wakati wenzako wako serious, we unaona maigizo tu!
Si mchezo.
Hiyo kutoka moyoni nilitaka kumaanisha "to feel what you are doing".
By the way kuna scholars wanaamini it's the heart which creates feelings from the magnect forces originated by it(the heart), depending on the thoughts we have.
Walio serious wanajua hawajui, na hivyo going with tradition for the sake of respect for culture and harmony is not offensive even to them, it is actually showing respect. Honoring their dubious rituals for the common goal of honoring a common friend.

Ni kama mkristo kuvua viatu akiingia msikitini. Haina maana anaamini katika kuvua viatu kabla ya kuingia nyumba ya ibada, ina maana anaheshimu kanuni za Waislam kuvua viatu kabla ya kuingia msikitini.

What is to feel?

What is "feeling"? Scholars gani hao wanaoamini it's the heart that creates feelings? How does the heart create magnetic force? What has magnetic forces to do with "feelings"?

Where are your sources? Are these scholars published in any reputable journal? Peer reviewed? Theory/ hypothesis yao inaitwaje? Una link zozote online?

Wana tofauti yoyote na watu kama "The Flat Earth Society"? http://theflatearthsociety.org/cms/
 

Forum statistics

Threads 1,214,663
Members 462,802
Posts 28,518,619