Poor people are more taxed

Lole Gwakisa said:
Nafikiri ,nasema nafikiri, mtoa hoja alikuwa akimfananisha mtu masikini kwa maana ya mtu mwenye kipato kidogo kulinganisha na makundi mengine katika jamii.
Mtu wa aina hii atakuwa mkulima mdogo kabisa(subsistence peasant), na katika kundi hili wanaingia zaidi ya waTanzania 95%
Suala la kodi kwa kweli ni subjective from ones point of view.Mtu mdogo,masikini analipa kodi zote kutokana na kuwa yeye ni end user.Kwa kulinganisha tu mfanya biashara ana njia nyingi sana za si tu kutolipa kodi shihi lakini hata kuikwepa kabisa, kibiashara.
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Hapa tunaenda sawa sasa, ila nataka nikusahihishe kitu kimoja mtu mdogo (end user) kodi inayo mwathili yeye pekee ni Indirect taxes, hizo ndizo anazo rundikiwa kama, VAT, stamp duty, excise duty etc. Direct taxes, end user hazimdhulu kabisa!
 
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Next Level said:
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Hapa tunaenda sawa sasa, ila nataka nikusahihishe kitu kimoja mtu mdogo (end user) kodi inayo mwathili yeye pekee ni Indirect taxes, hizo ndizo anazo rundikiwa kama, VAT, stamp duty, exercise duty ect. Direct taxes, end user hazimdhulu kabisa!
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Sawa sawa kabisa mkuu lakini kodi ni kodi tu iwe ya Jiji, Direct or Indirect Tax,zote zinaenda kwa Pilato.
 
My 2 cents is that the poor isnt being taxed the most, the problem is that when everyone is paying the same amount of taxes for everything, the poor suffer the most. If me being poor go into the store and buy the same thing a rich person is, we are both paying the same amount of taxes. The effect it will have on me being poor is greater than the well to do person. Even when we poor buy houses, no matter how much i make at work, my property tax is still the same as the rich person who owns houses in my neighborhood. What needs to happen is tax brackets for what people have to pay. If my property tax could come down, i would feel more relief. But since i pay the same as the rest, i suffer. Now what i really need is some suggestions on how to get rich. I wouldnt care how much tax am paying so long as i can afford it. Hehehehehe
robin
 
Next Level, nadhani umetoa elimu ya kutosha, na aliye mada alitaka kutuletea siasa za ujamaa na kujitegemea na kusema eti ukimiliki kampuni wewe ni myonyaji au the recent fashionable name FISADI. Mimi nimeshaishi miaka ile ya kuitana majina and I am fed up! Mtu anayefanya boashara aachukua risk kubwa sana na pia anacontribute immensely to the coffers of the governmnet. Na ni kodi zetu zinazolipia ujenzi wa shule, mabarabara na huduma zingine muhimu. Ni kodi zetu ambazo zinafujwa ovyo na wanasiasa na wafanyakazi wabovu wa BOT (si wafanyakazi - I hate generalizing).
Sasa kulalamikia indirect tax naomba nirudie alichoeleza Next level, as long as you consume you all pay indirect taxes.
Jamani badilisheni mawazo na go and work, employ yourself, be an enterprenuer, badala ya kukaa na kusema oooh, matajiri, oooh mafisadi etc. Mi niko tayari kutoa ushauri kwa mtu kama anataka kuanzisha biashara yao, na nimeshakuwa mentor to a number of young people, lakini kukaa kulalamika will never get you far! We love to admire people like Bill Gates, lakini angekuwa mtanzania tungekuwa tumeshamwita fisadi! Just kwa sababu anafanikiwa kibiashara!
 
Susuviri said:
Next Level, nadhani umetoa elimu ya kutosha, na aliye mada alitaka kutuletea siasa za ujamaa na kujitegemea na kusema eti ukimiliki kampuni wewe ni myonyaji au the recent fashionable name FISADI. Mimi nimeshaishi miaka ile ya kuitana majina and I am fed up! Mtu anayefanya boashara aachukua risk kubwa sana na pia anacontribute immensely to the coffers of the governmnet. Na ni kodi zetu zinazolipia ujenzi wa shule, mabarabara na huduma zingine muhimu. Ni kodi zetu ambazo zinafujwa ovyo na wanasiasa na wafanyakazi wabovu wa BOT (si wafanyakazi - I hate generalizing).
Sasa kulalamikia indirect tax naomba nirudie alichoeleza Next level, as long as you consume you all pay indirect taxes.
Jamani badilisheni mawazo na go and work, employ yourself, be an enterprenuer, badala ya kukaa na kusema oooh, matajiri, oooh mafisadi etc. Mi niko tayari kutoa ushauri kwa mtu kama anataka kuanzisha biashara yao, na nimeshakuwa mentor to a number of young people, lakini kukaa kulalamika will never get you far! We love to admire people like Bill Gates, lakini angekuwa mtanzania tungekuwa tumeshamwita fisadi! Just kwa sababu anafanikiwa kibiashara!
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Thanks man,

Unajua wabongo wakati mwingine hatupendi kuambiwa ukweli na pia tunatamaa ya mafanikio lakini hatutaki kabisa kupitia njia ya ''mateso'' i.e we just want to see good end, but don't think about the means to good end!

Thanks again for helping out on cementing my point!

Cheers man!
 
EXAUD J. MAKYAO said:
Nadhani umerukia mada bila kufikiri sawa sawa.
Ukitaka kulinganisha ulipaji wa kodi na mlipaji huwezi kuangalia tu kiasi.
Unahitaji kujua tofauti ya kiasi cha kodi na uwiano wa ulipaji.

Mfano,
Mtu mwenye shilingi millioni kumi akitozwa shilingi laki moja na mtu mmwenye shilingi elfu tano akitozwa shilingi mia tano aliyetozwa zaidi ni yule wa elifu tano.
Suala lako la TRA na vinginevyo halibadilishi ukweli.
Usipige mahesabu ya kisiasa, piga hesabu za kiuchumi mkuu.
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Kwa hiyo wewe unataka watu wawe wanaadhibiwa kwa kupata mafanikio ya kifedha?
Kama Tax ni 10% hauoni mtu aliyetengeneza 100Mil anachangia Taifa kuliko mtu alitengeneza 1Mil? Sasa kwa nini Tax rate yake iongezwe zaidi ya hapo?
 
Susuviri said:
Next Level, nadhani umetoa elimu ya kutosha, na aliye mada alitaka kutuletea siasa za ujamaa na kujitegemea na kusema eti ukimiliki kampuni wewe ni myonyaji au the recent fashionable name FISADI. Mimi nimeshaishi miaka ile ya kuitana majina and I am fed up! Mtu anayefanya boashara aachukua risk kubwa sana na pia anacontribute immensely to the coffers of the governmnet. Na ni kodi zetu zinazolipia ujenzi wa shule, mabarabara na huduma zingine muhimu. Ni kodi zetu ambazo zinafujwa ovyo na wanasiasa na wafanyakazi wabovu wa BOT (si wafanyakazi - I hate generalizing).
Sasa kulalamikia indirect tax naomba nirudie alichoeleza Next level, as long as you consume you all pay indirect taxes.
Jamani badilisheni mawazo na go and work, employ yourself, be an enterprenuer, badala ya kukaa na kusema oooh, matajiri, oooh mafisadi etc. Mi niko tayari kutoa ushauri kwa mtu kama anataka kuanzisha biashara yao, na nimeshakuwa mentor to a number of young people, lakini kukaa kulalamika will never get you far! We love to admire people like Bill Gates, lakini angekuwa mtanzania tungekuwa tumeshamwita fisadi! Just kwa sababu anafanikiwa kibiashara!
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Well presented!Wengi wetu tuna mentality za kuwachukulia watu waliofanikiwa kama maadui na kuwabandika majina...hii ni tabia chafu.Kila mtu ana matatizo yake na kama kuna mtu amevunja sheria ahukumiwe kwa mujibu wa sheria.

Kuna katabia ka kuwachukia wafanya biashara ambako kalianza enzi za mwalimu kuondoka vichwani mwetu inashindikana.Inabidi kufanya mageuzi ya fikra ...
 
MI naamini EXAUD kuna kitu anataka kutufafanulia.Kwenye maswala ya kodi,nadhani MTUMIAJI WA ILE BIDHAA,ambae ni LAST CONSUMER kwa kingereza ndiiye mlipa kodi HALISI.sasa the last consumer can be ANYBODY,be it rich or poor.kinachosumbua hapa ni kwamba last consumers wengi ni masikini,yaani wavuja jasho na kiukweli ndio walipa kodi wengi.

Swala la TUFANYEJE,dah!ngumu sana baba.labda items nyingi zinazotumiwa na wavuja jasho zipewe EXEMPTION ya tax
 
Next Level said:
I said in my statement ''My argument will still be, if all persons (natural & legal) are to follow the taxation laws, high income earners are more payers of tax than low income earners!'', ur correct on the fact that, the tax base in TZ is not wider enough to catch all fishes (small&bigger), there is a lot of income that goes untaxed because of inefficincies in administration of the available taxation laws!

All my arguments here, have the assumption that, we have efficient taxation systems and administration, there is no tax evasion, there is a wider tax base etc.

You are talking about middle class...I am not sure, if the thread starter was referring them as ''poor people'', I thought he was referring to unskilled labourer, wage earners, subsistance farmers who we say they live below a dollar per day.......!

If you want to compare employees vs business persons (informal ones), I would agreed 100% with you that, we employees suffer a lot cause every thing we get is taxed, while people working in the informal sector, if they pay tax is just a mere estimate, most of them don't pay! For your information, by 2006 the Registered Tax payers in Tanzania (excluding employees) were just 250,000! The rest of businesses you know, just envading tax!

So the point here is to assume all factors are constant (ceteris paribus), then rich people pay higher tax than poorer ones!

Cheers
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Next Level:
I think we should discuss what is happening now by taking out the constant factors. Becauase, what you are saying is what is supposed to be, but if you look on the reality I am 100% poorer people (low income earners) are taxed more consdering percentage income mass balance than rich ones. Let us consider all factors (mutatis mutandas) than governing the people now. Forget about TRA books of what should be. Thereafter, we should narrow down to solutions.
 
Kwanza naomba nisema kitu kimoja,
TRA wameshindwa kubuni mtindo ambao ni perfect kuwanusuru maskini wetu.
Tax policies zinatakiwa kuwa formulated kwa kufuata makundi haya matatu

a) Regressional Tax .Hii hapa inamuumiza zaidi maskini na tajiri anaendelea kuongezewa.This system is not suitable

b)Proportional Tax. Hapa maskini na tajiri hulipa sawa.So,still it will be counted as another way of exploiting the disadvantaged group in a society

c) Progressive Tax ambayo inasaidia Tajiri kumpunguzia utajiri wake maskini.yaani alichonacho hulipa zaidi.I think TRA failed on this ground


Hata hivyo njia za kuwapunguzia maskini mzigo ni kuangalia zaidi kwenye Incidence and impact of Taxazation.Kuna wakati kabisa unaona kuna kodi nyingine zinaepukika through backward carriage of taxation but still utakuta some firms zinamsukumia mzigo wholesaler,nae anasukuma kwa retailer huku nae akimsukumia consumer.

Sababu kubwa unakuta serikali haijaweza kudhibiti hii hali kwa kuruhusu monopolly kwenye biashara nyingi
 
Ukweli unabakia palepale, masikini ndiye anayelipa kodi zaidi, chezeni sarakasi zote na mpinduepindue lugha, ukweli utabakia kuwa ukweli.
 
Ben said:
Kwanza naomba nisema kitu kimoja,
TRA wameshindwa kubuni mtindo ambao ni perfect kuwanusuru maskini wetu.
Tax policies zinatakiwa kuwa formulated kwa kufuata makundi haya matatu

a) Regressional Tax .Hii hapa inamuumiza zaidi maskini na tajiri anaendelea kuongezewa.This system is not suitable

b)Proportional Tax. Hapa maskini na tajiri hulipa sawa.So,still it will be counted as another way of exploiting the disadvantaged group in a society

c) Progressive Tax ambayo inasaidia Tajiri kumpunguzia utajiri wake maskini.yaani alichonacho hulipa zaidi.I think TRA failed on this ground


Hata hivyo njia za kuwapunguzia maskini mzigo ni kuangalia zaidi kwenye Incidence and impact of Taxazation.Kuna wakati kabisa unaona kuna kodi nyingine zinaepukika through backward carriage of taxation but still utakuta some firms zinamsukumia mzigo wholesaler,nae anasukuma kwa retailer huku nae akimsukumia consumer.

Sababu kubwa unakuta serikali haijaweza kudhibiti hii hali kwa kuruhusu monopolly kwenye biashara nyingi
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BEN,
I wish our budget makers could put your advice in actions.
 
In most societies there are three levels of economic class.
1.Working class
2.Middle class
3.Upper class

Ukiangalia majority Tanzania ni working class then kuna baadhi waliyo bahatika kuwa middle class na wajuu zaidi upper class. Sasa hapa nimeona comparisons between poor na upper class to je what about the middle class? How does the middle class feature in Tanzania?
 
MwanaFalsafa1 said:
In most societies there are three levels of economic class.
1.Working class
2.Middle class
3.Upper class

Ukiangalia majority Tanzania ni working class then kuna baadhi waliyo bahatika kuwa middle class na wajuu zaidi upper class. Sasa hapa nimeona comparisons between poor na upper class to je what about the middle class? How does the middle class feature in Tanzania?
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Middle class and Upper class are more or less the same on the issue of comparing between the poor and the rich.
 
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