Nadharia kuhusu chanzo na maana ya heshima ya kijeshi ya Mizinga 21

Kipanga

JF-Expert Member
Apr 24, 2008
678
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Mizinga 21.jpg


Kuna jambo huwa linanitatiza kuhusiana na heshima ya mizinga 21 inayotolewa kwa kiongozi mkuu wa nchi (Rais) aidha anapokuwa katika shughuli za kitaifa ndani kama vile kuadhimisha siku ya uhuru n.k au wanapokuja viongozi maraisi wa nchi za nje kutembelea Tanzania.

Nataka kujua ni kwa nini wanapigiwa mizinga 21 kuwa ni ishara ya heshima kwa Rais, Je chimbuko lake ni nini?, Kwani nini mizinga 21 tu na isiwe zaidi au pungufu ya 21? Kutompigia mizinga 21 Rais kunamaanisha kuwa heshima kwa raisi husika inashuka?

Naomba wale wataalamu wa mambo ya itifaki na kijeshi wanieleweshe kuhusu jambo hili.

Naomba kuwasilisha.

BAADHI YA WADAU WENGINE WENYE KUHITAJI UFAFANUZI
Habari za usiku wakuu?

Tukiwa tunaendelea kuomboleza msiba mzito wa kiongozi wetu mpendwa,Hayati Benjamin William Mkapa aliyeaga dunia usiku wa kuamkia leo.

Naomba kuuliza kuhusu mizinga ambayo viongozi wetu wakubwa huwa wanapigiwa pindi wanapofariki au tukio jingine.

Niliwahi kusikia huwa inapigwa mizinga 21(ishirini na moja),Sasa najiuliza kwanini iwe 21 na isiwa kumi,au 30 au basi idadi yeyote ile?

Kwanini mizinga 21?.Pili ina maanisha kitu gani??.Tatu je haiwezi kuleta madhara kwa binadamu km vile kujeruhi au kuua pindi ikikosewa kupiga?.

Nne ukiacha Maraisi,ni viongozi gani wengine wanaostahili kupigiwa mizinga?.Au basi ni matukio gani yanayoweza kupelekea mizinga kupigwa?.

Naomba kuwasilisha.Wajuzi wa mambo hayo ya Kijeshi njooni mnielimishe.Alamsiki.
Salaam JF

Mara nyingi nimekuwa nikishuhudia ama kusikia kupigwa kwa mizinga 21 kwa Mkuu wa nchi katika sherehe za kitaifa ama wakati Mkuu wa nchi nyingine anapozuru nchi mwenyeji, vilevile kwanini majenerali kuanzia Brigedia jenerali wanapigiwa mizinga 11, Meja jenerali wanapigiwa mizinga 13, Luteni jenerali wanapigiwa mizinga 15 na Jenerali anapigiwa mizinga 17 wakati wa kuagwa baada ya kustaafu ama wakati wa kuzikwa kwao wanapofariki dunia.

Nini maana na asili ya mizinga ya kijeshi kwa wakubwa hao? Wajuvi wa mambo hebu wekeni mubashara.
Wanajamvi,

Mara nyingi nimeona maraisi wanapofika Nchi fulani ama nchini mwao kwenye matukio maalumu hupigiwa mizinga 21 ya kijeshi.

Je, ni Kwanini iwe 21? Kuna jambo gani katika hiyo namba?

Kadhalika na mawaziri wakuu ni mizinga 19.

Tafadhali mwenye kuyajua haya na atujuze.

MICHANGO NA NADHARIA MBALIMBALI TOKA KWA WADAU
PRACTICE OF PLACING ONESELF IN AN UNARMED POSITION

The tradition of saluting can be traced to the Middle Ages practice of placing oneself in an unarmed position and, therefore, in the power of those being honoured. This may be noted in the dropping of the point of the sword, presenting arms, firing cannon and small arms, lowering sails, manning the yards, removing the headdress or laying on oars.

The cannon salute might have originated in the 17th century with the maritime practice of demanding that a defeated enemy expend its ammunition and render itself helpless until reloaded a time-consuming operation in that era. Also, the gun salute was established as a naval tradition by the late sixteenth century. A man o' war which visited a foreign port would discharge all its guns to show that its guns were empty. Since the ship would not have enough time to reload before it was within range of the shore batteries, it was clearly demonstrating its friendly intentions by going in with empty guns.

Salute by gunfire is an ancient ceremony. The British for years compelled weaker nations to render the first salute; but in time, international practice compelled "gun for gun" on the principle of equality of nations. In the earliest days, seven guns was the recognized British national salute because seven was the standard number of weapons on a vessel. In that day, gunpowder made from sodium nitrate was easier to keep on dry land than at sea. Thus those early regulations stated that although a ship would fire only seven guns, the forts ashore would fire three shots to each one shot afloat, hence the number 21.

With the increase in quality of naval gunpowder, by the use of potassium nitrate, honours rendered at sea were increased to the shore salute. 21 guns became the highest national honour, although for a period of time, monarchies received more guns than republics. Eventually republics gained equality in Britain's eyes.

When British India was the jewel in the crown of the British Empire, the king-emperor would receive an Imperial salute of 101 guns, but for the more important of the hundreds of colonial vassals rulers of princely states involved in indirect rule, there was a formal hierarchical system of odd numbers of guns as a salute, expressing the Monarch(y)'s prestige, the highest of these so-called salute states (also in some other parts of the empire) enjoying 21 guns (till 1947 only their Highnesses the Nizam of Hyderabad and Berar and the Maharajas of Mysore, of Jammu and Kashmir, of Baroda and of Gwalior). For years, a few non-colonized Monarchs were granted 21 guns (Nepal, Oman, Mosquito Coast and Zanzibar) or even 31 guns (Afghanistan and Siam).

There was much confusion because of the varying customs of maritime states, but finally the British government proposed to the United States a regulation that provided for "salutes to be returned gun for gun." The British at that time officially considered the international salute to sovereign states to be 21 guns, and the United States adopted the 21 guns and "gun for gun" return on August 18, 1875.

- Wikipedia.
[h=2]Why Do They Use 21 Guns in the 21 Gun Salute?[/h]
OTHER THEORIES
The 21-gun salute that we know today has its roots in the ancient tradition of warriors demonstrating their peaceful intentions by resting the point of their weapons on the ground.

The notion of making a soldiers weapons useless to show that he came in peace continued even as warfare changed over the centuries. Gunpowder and cannons became commonplace among militaries and private forces, both on land and at sea around the 14th century. In order for a ship entering a foreign port to show those on shore that they came in peace, the captain would have his crew fire the guns. This rendered the weapons inoperable for a period of time, with early guns only being capable of firing a single shot before crews needed to reload them.

Traditionally when a British ship entered into a foreign port, it would fire its guns seven times. The reason for the seven shots is widely debated to this day. One theory states that the majority of the British ships at this point only carried seven guns and so firing seven shots became the standard to signal those on shore that the ship was now unarmed. Ships carried enough gunpowder and ammunition to reload multiple times, but beyond symbolism, the idea here was that the lengthy process of reloading would allow the soldiers onshore more than enough time to disable the ship with their own weapons if needs be.

Another proposed theory for the number seven relates to the Bible. After creating the world, the Bible states that God rested on the seventh day (or for the seventh ?event?- there is some debate over the ?day? vs. ?event? translation). So it has been theorized that the number could have been chosen in reference to its Biblical significance, perhaps of resting with the ship coming to port after a long journey. Yet another theory stems from the pervasive superstitious nature of sailors combined with the historic notion in certain regions that the number 7 is sacred, and that odd numbers are lucky and even unlucky. In fact, for a time it was common to use an even number of shots to signify the death of a ship captain when returning from the voyage the death occurred on.

Whatever the underlying reason, the guns onshore would return fire as a form of welcome once the incoming ship finished firing the seven rounds. However, the shore bound guns fired three rounds for every one fired by the incoming ships, putting the total number of shots fired at twenty-one in these cases. As with the ?7? number, it?s not known precisely why in the regions that used this number scheme that they chose a 3 to 1 ratio. What is known is that as time went on where this was practiced, it became traditional for the ships themselves to start firing off 21 shots as well, perhaps due to the ships becoming larger and being equipped with more guns, with the captains ostensibly preferring a 1 to 1 salute.

This then brings us to when firing the 21 shots became considered a type of official salute, rather than a symbolic way to indicate peaceful intentions. This seems to have started around 1730 when it became a recognized salute to British government officials. Specifically, the British Navy allowed its ships and captains the option to perform the 21-gun salute as a way to honor members of the British Royal Family during select anniversaries. About eighty years later, in 1808, the 21-gun salute officially became the standard salute to honor British Royalty.

While the British Navy adopted the 21-gun salute in 1808 as the standard, other nations, such as the United States, didn?t adopt it until much later. In fact, the United States War Department decided in 1810 to define the ?national salute? as having the same number of shots as there were states in the nation. That number grew every year that a new state joined the Union. Needless to say, this quickly became a cumbersome way to salute the United States and its dignitaries.

That said, the United States did make the? Presidential Salute? a 21-gun salute in 1842, and in 1890 officially accepted the 21-gun salute as the ?national salute? This followed the 1875 British proposal to the United States of a ?Gun for Gun Salute? of 21-guns to honor visiting dignitaries. Essentially, the British and French, among other nations, at this point were all using 21 guns for their salutes, but the U.S. system required many more shots for their dignitaries. Besides needing to fire off more cannons, this also potentially signified greater honor to the U.S. dignitaries than to those of other nations. Thus, the British proposed a 1 for 1 shot, with 21 being the number, which was accepted by the U.S. on August 18, 1875.

The 21-gun salute still represents a significant honor today. In the United States, the 21-gun salute occurs to honor a President, former president, or the head of foreign state. It can also be fired in order to honor the United States Flag. The salute also occurs at noon on the day of the funeral of a President, former President, or President-elect along with on Memorial Day.

You may have noticed that there?s no mention of the 21-gun salute occurring during military funerals and that?s a common misconception. Known as the ?3 Volleys,? the salute that occurs during soldiers? funerals follows a battlefield tradition where both sides stopped fighting so that they could remove their dead from the field. The series of three shots, or volleys, let the other side know that the dead had been taken care of and that that battle could resume. Therefore the number of volleys is more important than the actual number of shots. Even the United States Army Manuel?s section on the Ceremonial Firing Party at a funeral named the number of riflemen as between five and eight, rather than an exact number.

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Bonus Facts:
  • When ships were engaged in battle during the 14th century, the common practice was that the captured or defeated ship needed to expend all of its ammunition in order to make it helpless in the presence of the other ship and signify surrender.
  • A 62-gun salute was fired upon the birth of Prince George of England. The 21-gun salute was increased to 41-guns because the guns were fired from a royal park or residence and an additional 21-guns were added in order to pay respect to the city of London.
SOURCE: Why Do They Use 21 Guns in the 21 Gun Salute?
ULIANZA SIKU YA UHURU WA MAREKANI (1776)
Taratibu hii ilianzia mwaka 1776 kule marekani. Marekani ilipata Uhuru wake 1776 sasa wanajeshi siku ya Uhuru wakataka kusherehekea siku hiyo kwa kupiga mizinga. SwaLi likaja wapige mizinga mingapi kuonyesha furaha yao? Mmoja akashauri kuwa wajumlishe namba zote zilizoko kwenye maana 1776 jibu watakalopata ndio liwe idadi ya mizinga watakayopiga. Ukijumlisha namba zote za 1776 jibu utapata 21.yaaani 1+7+7+6 jibu ni 21. Wakapiga mizinga 21. Toka hapo Ukawa desturi ya majeshi duniani wakifurahia jambo iwe kupokea kiongozi au sherehe kupiga mizinga 21
ULIANZIA UINGEREZA MWAKA 1730
Long stor but kifupi ilianza mwaka 1730 British, ikiwa wanapiga mizinga 7. Meli zilikua zikikaribia kutia nanga katika fukwe za nchi nyingine zilipiga mizinga saba kuashiria kwamba wao sio maadui na wanataka tu kutia nanga kagika fukwe zao.

Wakati huo mizinga saba ilikua ndio standard katika meli za enzi hizo. So as the time goes on ikaja mizinga 14 miaka ya 1810.Then British walitumia mizinga 14 wakati wa kumuapisha queen anma king.Mizinga 14 pia ilitegemea ukubwa wa meli(Royal marine) ya British wakati huo.

Mwaka 1875 August 8 USA na Uingereza walikubaliana kupitisha sheria ya kupiga mizinga 21 kwa matukio yafuatayo:

1. Kifo cha rais ama aliyekua rais
2. Ugeni wa rais ama kiongozi wa taifa fulani
3. Kukabidhiana madaraka hasa urais
4. Kumsimika malkia ama mfalme n.k

Kwahiyo kwakuwa mataifa hayo ni makubwa na mengine yote yamekopy hapo basi ndio maana hata sisi leo hii tunapiga mizinga 21.

Lakini kuna theory nyingi sana kuhusiana na 21 gunfire/gun shots. Ila ukweli ni huo nilioandika hapo juu.

Wengine (hasa Wamarekani) husema et mataifa yanapiga mizinga 21 kutukuza mwaka wao wa kupata uhuru 1776 yaani jumla ya namba hizo hapo ni 21.

...Free ideas...
NI ISHARA YA KUTOKUWEPO UADUI
21 salute mwanzo wake ilikuwa ni kuonesha kutokuwepo kwa uadui. Ilianzia nchi za Ulaya ambapo marine warship zilipokuwa zinaingia kwenye territory ya nchi nyingine kwa amani zililipua silaha zake (cannons) ambazo kwa kawaida ndani ya meli hizo za kivita zilikuwa 21.

Kulipua mara 21 ilimaanisha silaha zote 21 zimelipuliwa, hivyo hakuna silaha inayoweza kutumika katika himaya hiyo isiyo yao. Baadaye ikatumika kama salamu ya heshima kwa makamanda wakuu wanapotembelea vikosi au wakati wa misiba ambapo 21 salute ilionekana ndiyo heshima ya juu kabisa, wa chini walipigiwa milipuko pungufu.

Hatimaye utamaduni huo ulieneo mpaka majeshi ya nchi kavu, na salamu hiyo kwenda mpaka kwa watawala kama wafalme, magavana au mawaziri wakuu.

Siyo kweli kuwa hakuna salute za kijeshi pungufu ya hiyo 21 bali 21 artillery salute ndiyo ya juu kabisa. Mataifa mbalimbali wana idadi tofauti kwa watu tofauti na kwa mazingira tofauti. Na pia ipo ile ya bunduki ya kawaida na ile ya mizinga.
NI UTARATIBU WA MWINGEREZA
Ni utaratibu sidhani kama waliuanzisha wao ila ulipewa umaarufu na waingereza, super power wa wakati huo.

Hii ilitokea pale ambapo warship inaingia port ya kigeni. Kabla hiyo warship haijaingia kwenye target za hao wenyeji,basi wenye hicho chombo walikuwa wanafyatua mizinga yote iliyo ndani yake(warship).Nadhani sababu ilikuwa kuashiria kwamba hiyo warship imekuja kwa lengo la amani au tunaweza sema ndo mambo ya salute yenyewe.

By that time haikuwa 21. Ilikuwa ni mizinga 7. Why saba? Sababu namba saba imebeba vitu vyingi katika nyanja za unajimu na kibiblia.Upande wa unajimu kuna haya mambo ya miandamo ya mwezi n.k ila upande wa Biblia kuna hii ishu ya uumbaji (siku 7),sabato(siku ya 7) n.k. Kumbuka pia kipindi hicho hizo warship zilikuwa na projectile moja.So mrusho mmoja ukawa unatoa mzinga mmoja.So hiyo 7 shots ikawa standard.

Baadaye pia zikaja hizi za nchi kavu.Yenyewe zikawa na uwezo zaidi.Ikawa tena sio mrusho mmoja unatoa mzinga mmoja bali mrusho mmoja unatoa mizinga mitatu (more projectiles).

Kwa hiyo idadi ya mirusho ikabaki vilevile ila idadi ya mizinga inayotoka ikaongezeka mara tatu.Kwa nini walichagua no.3? Kuna sababu zake pia. So ikawa 7 × 3 = 21. Hence mizinga 21.

Huu mfumo ulikuwa wa waingereza ila kutokana na yeye kuwa super power kipindi hicho, ulianza kusambaa. Ni kama tu sahivi unavyotumia mfumo wake wa GMT.

At first Marekani hawakukubaliana na huu mfumo ila baadaye waliupitisha.Nadhani unafahamu kitu kikiwa na mkono wa Muingereza na Mmarekani kipindi hicho basi kinakuwa universal.

Kwa hiyo nasi Waswahili tukaiga!

Natumai nimekupa mwanga fulani mtoa mada.
 

Kipanga

JF-Expert Member
Apr 24, 2008
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0
Wapendwa wana JF naiweka hii topic kwa mara nyingine hapa jamvini ili niweze kueleweshwa mantiki nzima ya viongozi wakuu wa nchi kupigiwa mizinga 21. Huwa najiuliza kwa nini mizinga 21 na isiwe pungufu au hata zaidi? Nilipoweka thread hii hapo awali ilipita kimya kimya. Kwa anaefahamu tafadhali tuelimishane.
 

Invisible

Robot
Feb 11, 2006
9,110
2,000
Yani hapo ni kuwa umeirudia kwa jina lilelile.

Mizinga?

Subiri nikuitie Icadon akueleze vema manake ndiye mwenyewe kwa masuala haya! Mwanakijiji na ES watakudanganya tuu
 

Ladslaus Modest

JF-Expert Member
Jun 27, 2008
638
195
Ni kweli Jamaa yangu Kipanga, hata mie nilikuwa ninajiuliza swali hilo hilo; nikawa pia ninajiuliza ni kwanini isiwe Mzinga 1? Au Mizinga 3 au Mizinga 7 au Mizinga 70?

Kwa kweli Wana JF mkitupa jibu la hili swali linatusaidia wengi.

Nawasilisha.
 

Ladslaus Modest

JF-Expert Member
Jun 27, 2008
638
195
Kwa nini Longitude 0 (aka Greenwhich Meridian) inapita London na sio Kibaha?
Hili swali nilimuuliza Mwalimu wangu wa Geografia nilipokuwa Darasa la sita wakati huo. Jibu alilonipa ni kuwa Waingereza ndio waliokuwa wameendelea kwenye mambo ya Geografia kuliko wengine, hivyo basi wakapendelea mji wao wa Greenwich uwe ndio Logitude 0. Kwa hivyo tunafuata hata sasa na sijui kama itajabadilika labda utumie UTM.
 

Pundit

JF-Expert Member
Feb 4, 2007
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Hili swali nilimuuliza Mwalimu wangu wa Geografia nilipokuwa Darasa la sita wakati huo. Jibu alilonipa ni kuwa Waingereza ndio waliokuwa wameendelea kwenye mambo ya Geografia kuliko wengine, hivyo basi wakapendelea mji wao wa Greenwich uwe ndio Logitude 0. Kwa hivyo tunafuata hata sasa na sijui kama itajabadilika labda utumie UTM.
There you go, the same applies to 21 gun salute, must be some significant Freemasonry code.
 

Yo Yo

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May 31, 2008
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Hili swali nilimuuliza Mwalimu wangu wa Geografia nilipokuwa Darasa la sita wakati huo. Jibu alilonipa ni kuwa Waingereza ndio waliokuwa wameendelea kwenye mambo ya Geografia kuliko wengine, hivyo basi wakapendelea mji wao wa Greenwich uwe ndio Logitude 0. Kwa hivyo tunafuata hata sasa na sijui kama itajabadilika labda utumie UTM.
......What?
 

Pundit

JF-Expert Member
Feb 4, 2007
3,740
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......What?
It is undisputed that the Brithish ruled the sea, and hence the world - the root of cultural and geographical hegemony back in the days when the sun never did set on their empire.
 

Mzee Mwanakijiji

Platinum Member
Mar 10, 2006
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Kuna jambo huwa linanitatiza kuhusiana na heshima ya mizinga 21 inayotolewa kwa kiongozi mkuu wa nchi (Raisi) aidha anapokuwa katika shughuli za kitaifa ndani kama vile kuadhimisha siku ya uhuru n.k au wanapokuja viongozi maraisi wa nchi za nje kutembelea Tanzania.

Nataka kujua ni kwa nini wanapigiwa mizinga 21 kuwa ni ishara ya heshima kwa raisi, Je chimbuko lake ni nini?, Kwani nini mizinga 21 tu na isiwe zaidi au pungufu ya 21? Kutompigia mizinga 21 raisi kunamaanisha kuwa heshima kwa raisi husika inashuka?

Naomba wale wataalamu wa mambo ya itifaki na kijeshi wanieleweshe kuhusu jambo hili.

Naomba kuwasilisha.

The tradition of saluting can be traced to the Middle Ages practice of placing oneself in an unarmed position and, therefore, in the power of those being honoured. This may be noted in the dropping of the point of the sword, presenting arms, firing cannon and small arms, lowering sails, manning the yards, removing the headdress or laying on oars.

The cannon salute might have originated in the 17th century with the maritime practice of demanding that a defeated enemy expend its ammunition and render itself helpless until reloaded — a time-consuming operation in that era. Also, the gun salute was established as a naval tradition by the late sixteenth century. A man o' war which visited a foreign port would discharge all its guns to show that its guns were empty. Since the ship would not have enough time to reload before it was within range of the shore batteries, it was clearly demonstrating its friendly intentions by going in with empty guns.

Salute by gunfire is an ancient ceremony. The British for years compelled weaker nations to render the first salute; but in time, international practice compelled "gun for gun" on the principle of equality of nations. In the earliest days, seven guns was the recognized British national salute because seven was the standard number of weapons on a vessel. In that day, gunpowder made from sodium nitrate was easier to keep on dry land than at sea. Thus those early regulations stated that although a ship would fire only seven guns, the forts ashore would fire three shots to each one shot afloat, hence the number 21.

With the increase in quality of naval gunpowder, by the use of potassium nitrate, honours rendered at sea were increased to the shore salute. 21 guns became the highest national honour, although for a period of time, monarchies received more guns than republics. Eventually republics gained equality in Britain's eyes.

When British India was the jewel in the crown of the British Empire, the king-emperor would receive an Imperial salute of 101 guns, but for the more important of the hundreds of colonial vassals rulers of princely states involved in indirect rule, there was a formal hierarchical system of odd numbers of guns as a salute, expressing the Monarch(y)'s prestige, the highest of these so-called salute states (also in some other parts of the empire) enjoying 21 guns (till 1947 only their Highnesses the Nizam of Hyderabad and Berar and the Maharajas of Mysore, of Jammu and Kashmir, of Baroda and of Gwalior). For years, a few non-colonized Monarchs were granted 21 guns (Nepal, Oman, Mosquito Coast and Zanzibar) or even 31 guns (Afghanistan and Siam).

There was much confusion because of the varying customs of maritime states, but finally the British government proposed to the United States a regulation that provided for "salutes to be returned gun for gun." The British at that time officially considered the international salute to sovereign states to be 21 guns, and the United States adopted the 21 guns and "gun for gun" return on August 18, 1875.

- Wikipedia.
 

Pundit

JF-Expert Member
Feb 4, 2007
3,740
1,225
Kila kitu sisi tunaiga tu.
Sisi kina nani?

Kama unaongelea waafrika basi wao waliiga kwanza, waliiga calendar ya siku 365, wakaiga Geometry, wakaiga kufahamu mzingo wa dunia etc etc.

Maendeleo ya kisayansi ya Ulaya yamekuja juzi tu baada ya crusaders kwenda kuiba vitabu vya waarabu na wamisri.
 

Nyani Ngabu

Platinum Member
May 15, 2006
86,644
2,000
Sisi kina nani?

Kama unaongelea waafrika basi wao waliiga kwanza, waliiga calendar ya siku 365, wakaiga Geometry, wakaiga kufahamu mzingo wa dunia etc etc.

Maendeleo ya kisayansi ya Ulaya yamekuja juzi tu baada ya crusaders kwenda kuiba vitabu vya waarabu na wamisri.
Bana eeh kama hujui "sisi" ni kina nani shauri yako.

Siko hapa kubishana mambo yaliyowazi. Ok basi, Afrika tumeendelea na wazungu waliiga (sijui nini) kutoka kwa Waafrika. Happy now Mr. Manchild?
 

Nkamangi

JF-Expert Member
Mar 17, 2008
642
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Nyani Mc Cain, Africans are not stupid as you seem to think, our stages of development were disrupted colonialism.They developed ahead of us, someone always has to come first, this time it wasn't us. Watu kama wewe wenye mentality za "Miafrika ndio ilivyo" as you put it ndio hamchangii lolote ili tucatch up. Africans have made some interesting discoveries for your information....google it, and we continue to do great things in our African way even today. Have a positive week end
 

Nyani Ngabu

Platinum Member
May 15, 2006
86,644
2,000
Nyani Mc Cain, Africans are not stupid as you seem to think, our stages of development were disrupted colonialism.They developed ahead of us, someone always has to come first, this time it wasn't us. Watu kama wewe wenye mentality za "Miafrika ndio ilivyo" as you put it ndio hamchangii lolote ili tucatch up. Africans have made some interesting discoveries for your information....google it, and we continue to do great things in our African way even today. Have a positive week end
Well then they (Africans) were stupid to let the colonialists disrupt their stages of development.....why would you let someone disrupt your way of living?
 

Pundit

JF-Expert Member
Feb 4, 2007
3,740
1,225
Bana eeh kama hujui "sisi" ni kina nani shauri yako.

Siko hapa kubishana mambo yaliyowazi. Ok basi, Afrika tumeendelea na wazungu waliiga (sijui nini) kutoka kwa Waafrika. Happy now Mr. Manchild?
For a Republican you are such a collectivist!
 

Pota

JF-Expert Member
Apr 8, 2011
1,909
2,000
Mie sio mtaalamu wa mambo ya kijeshi.

lakini nauliza kwa nini nadhani marais wote wakiapishwa wanasindikizwa na mizinga 21? kwa nini isiwe 20, ama 25 ama 30 nk, yaani namba ambazo zinakumbukika vizuri.

mfano si busara kumwambia mtu aje labda saa moja na dk 11,12,13,17, nk lakini utamwambia aje na dk 15, 20 nk. kwanini mizinga 21 na imekuwa universal. ni nani aliyependekeza hiyo 21?
 

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