Malawi, Tanzania border talks kickoff, Chiume warns experts to avoid 'careless talk'

[Mkodoleaji]

By Collins Mtika | NyasaTimes | August 20, 2012


Malawi's Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Cooperation, Ephraim Mganda Chiume has warned experts from Malawi and Tanzania to avoid careless statements in their discussions to iron out the border wrangle between the two countries over Lake Malawi.

"It is very easy for the discussions to break down and result in a stalemate. Let's avoid making statements that can undermine the process. Let us remember that we are here representing the multitude of Malawians and Tanzanians… who want an urgent resolution," Chiume said.

Chiume said this during the official opening of a five day meeting of experts from Malawi and Tanzania which started off on Monday at the Mzuzu Hotel to discuss the 50-year dispute, which stems from colonial-era border lines around the lake.

Chiume opening the meeting

​

"The international community is watching anxiously and our people are also following very keenly. Therefore have frank and open discussions taking into account all legal and historical facts behind this matter," he said.

The meeting will end on Saturday 25th August in Lilongwe where a joint communiqué will be issued. The main task of this meeting of experts is for the two sides to exchange documents and hopefully reach a consensus.

The 24 member Tanzanian delegation is led by Dr Selassie Mayunga, Director of Surveys and mapping division in the Ministry of Lands, Housing and Human Settlements Developments.

Mayunga told Nyasa Times in a separate interview that the meeting is not meant to mark boundaries again but to have negotiations on the dispute as per Africa Union directive of 2007.

Chiume concurred with Mayunga saying the meeting was not an opportunity for experts from either side to seek fame or score points but rather to do what is legally right for people of both sides.

"Therefore it is my appeal that this meeting of experts will be conducted in a courteous, friendly and diplomatic manner," the minister said.

Chiume then urged the experts to reach an amicable solution saying at the political level there is a strong desire to clear this misunderstanding.

"We cannot keep talking on the same issue for 40 years. As you may recall Tanzania President Jakaya Kikwete and Malawi's President Mrs. Joyce Banda held discussions on the margins of the SADC summit in Maputo Mozambique on August 18th 2012.

"The two leaders recognize that out two peoples are one and have co-existed peacefully for many years. As such our two leaders have given us a mandate to reach an amicable solution for the sake of our people," he said.

Rumors of a possible war between Malawi and Tanzania have recently been circulating in the two countries over Lake Malawi, which borders the two countries.

Tanzania is reportedly to have threatened war if Malawi continued oil exploration and does not share about 50 per cent of the lake.

Sharing notes: The experts

Minister Chiume and Tanzania experts

Group photograph of experts from Tanzania and Malawi meeting in Mzuzu on border row


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Source: nyasatimes.com

Naomba media zetu nazo zichangamke kutupa habari

 

[jogi]

Mkuu ndio hivi unapata, media gani tena!!!?

​

JF inawaongoza maili kibao mbele.

 

[Nikupateje]

taking into account all legal and historical facts behind this matter," he said.

Hapo kwenye RED ndipo patamu panapotakiwa kumaliza jambo hili na ndipo tunapotakiwa tupapende wote tusipachukie hata mmoja wetu yaani wananchi wa kote Tanzania na Malawi.

Therefore have frank and open discussions

Sensitivity ya hii issue isiishie kwenye motionless pictures. Ilifaa kuwa covered with TV kama vile bungeni ili tusianze kuhadithiwa kilichotokea mkutanoni. Mwenye kuchemka achemke tu kama tunavyowaona bungeni.

"It is very easy for the discussions to break down and result in a stalemate".

Ndiyo sababu hapo juu nimependekeza ikibidi TV iwekwe live ili hata huyo atakayejifanya kuleta fujo na kusababisha mkutano kuvunjika asitusimulie tuone live sisi wenyewe, na tumseme bila woga chanzo cha kushindwa kwake diplomacy bila kujali anatoka Malawi au Tanzania.

The 24 member Tanzanian delegation is led by Dr Selassie Mayunga, Director of Surveys and mapping division in the Ministry of Lands, Housing and Human Settlements Developments.

Inawezekana comments zetu humu JF zina mchango wake. Nilipoleta thread ya Membe kukosea latitudes za kuanzia na kuishia kwa ziwa hili wapo walioamini kwamba inawezekana kabisa idara zingine hazikuwa consulted wakati anapeleka jibu lile Bungeni.

Walau hapa nina imani kwamba hakuna kosa kama lile litajirudia maana kweli kuna timu ya wataalamu sasa na si wanasiasa wa majukwaani.

 

[Daniel Anderson]

Hapo kwenye RED ndipo patamu panapotakiwa kumaliza jambo hili na ndipo tunapotakiwa tupapende wote tusipachukie hata mmoja wetu yaani wananchi wa kote Tanzania na Malawi.



Sensitivity ya hii issue isiishie kwenye motionless pictures. Ilifaa kuwa covered with TV kama vile bungeni ili tusianze kuhadithiwa kilichotokea mkutanoni. Mwenye kuchemka achemke tu kama tunavyowaona bungeni.


Ndiyo sababu hapo juu nimependekeza ikibidi TV iwekwe live ili hata huyo atakayejifanya kuleta fujo na kusababisha mkutano kuvunjika asitusimulie tuone live sisi wenyewe, na tumseme bila woga chanzo cha kushindwa kwake diplomacy bila kujali anatoka Malawi au Tanzania.



Inawezekana comments zetu humu JF zina mchango wake. Nilipoleta thread ya Membe kukosea latitudes za kuanzia na kuishia kwa ziwa hili wapo walioamini kwamba inawezekana kabisa idara zingine hazikuwa consulted wakati anapeleka jibu lile Bungeni.

Walau hapa nina imani kwamba hakuna kosa kama lile litajirudia maana kweli kuna timu ya wataalamu sasa na si wanasiasa wa majukwaani.

nimependa uchambuzi wako

 

[jogi]

Nikupateje, hao watanzania hawakutumwa kuitoa sehemu ya ziwa letu nysa kwa wamalawi, uelewe kuwa kikwete alisema "sijatangaza vita" na ni kweli hajatangaza vita, na mamlaka ya kutangaza hiyo vita anayo, mkileta kichwa ngumu tutawamalizia hasira machungu ya kunyanyaswa na CCM.

NI HERI WAMALAWI WASHINDWE MARA MOJA, KINYUME CHAKE WATASHINDWA MARA MBILI, i.e watapokea kipondo, na boda itakuwa katikati, wakati huo blantyre yamesalia magofu, na tutaondoka tukipenda.

 

[afwe]

Kumbe hujajua, kwa Tanzania hizi zitaitwa ni siri ya nchi. Zitatufikia baada ya kuchakachua kwanza

 

[segwanga]

Hi ishu mi natetemeka kama naenda kwenye UE bila maandalizi mazuri.Kidplomasia si hatuna chetu kwenye hlo ziwa lakini kwa ubabe tunaweza pata hata lote

 

[Nikupateje]

Nikupateje, hao watanzania hawakutumwa kuitoa sehemu ya ziwa letu nysa kwa wamalawi, uelewe kuwa kikwete alisema "sijatangaza vita" na ni kweli hajatangaza vita, na mamlaka ya kutangaza hiyo vita anayo, mkileta kichwa ngumu tutawamalizia hasira machungu ya kunyanyaswa na CCM.

NI HERI WAMALAWI WASHINDWE MARA MOJA, KINYUME CHAKE WATASHINDWA MARA MBILI, i.e watapokea kipondo, na boda itakuwa katikati, wakati huo blantyre yamesalia magofu, na tutaondoka tukipenda.

Lete hoja kulingana na thread ilivyo.

 

[Nikupateje]

Kumbe hujajua, kwa Tanzania hizi zitaitwa ni siri ya nchi. Zitatufikia baada ya kuchakachua kwanza

Ni siri gani inayokuwa siri siku hizi. Habari zinaoatikana live tena wakiwa wamejifungia ndani humuhumu nchini. Haiwezekani jambo hili kulifanya siri kote Tanzania na Malawi.

Kufikia kesho tu tutakuwa tumeshajua update na walipofikia. Wasiwasi wa nini?

 

[Kigogo]

Jamani hili jambo liko kwenye kamati msilizungumzie

 

[Nikupateje]

Jamani hili jambo liko kwenye kamati msilizungumzie

Mkuu,

Utakataza wangapi wakati kuna thread kibao za wamalawi kama NyasaTimes wanazijadili kila dakika?

 

[jogi]

Lete hoja kulingana na thread ilivyo.

nimekupa extended version ya hiyo hoja, endelea kujadili, enzi na enzi ziwa lajulikana mpaka wake leo wapatwe uchizi wa ghafla, eti ziwa malawivletu lote. wafariji wenzio, maana ya mazungumzo ni kuona kama mnaweza kuelewa bila mjeledi mgongoni.

 

[Ulukolokwitanga]

Wasiwasi wangu ni kwa hao wajumbe wanaotuwakilisha kama hawataonyesha tabia za ajabu ajabu za watanzania wakienda nje ya nchi, tabia za kuwaza PER DIEMS na kusahau majukumu. Ukienda abroad na maafisa wa serikali mawazo yao huwa ni kwenye kuminimise matumizi ya per diems ili wabakize hela za kujengea bongo huku wanasahau completely kilichowapeleka. Wanachelewa kufika ukumbini kwa kuwa wanafikia vijihoteli vya bei rahisi nje ya mji, wanakuwa busy na simu mkutanoni ili mradi tu siku ipite hela iingie. Let's hope hawa walioenda Malawi wameweka nchi kwanza na maslahi binafsi baadaye

 

[Jasusi]

[h=6]Hii kutoka fb ya balozi wetu Malawi:
Patrick Lusiano Tsere[/h]2 hours ago

Leo mkutano wetu wa mpaka umeanza na ulifunguliwa na Waziri Chiume wa Mambo ya nje. Ujumbe wetu tulikuwa 13 wa Malawi 20 na ushee, tena mzito haswa. Hotuba ya Waziri Chiume ilikuwa nzuri na iliyojaa ushauri mzuri kwetu sote. Kila upande ulitoa hoja kuhusiana na msimamo wake. Ingekuwa tuko chuoni na kama ni thesis basi ile ya Tanzania ingestahili PHD tena with distinction ilhali ya wenzetu ilikuwa inastahili pass ya kufutia machozi! Jamani inatosha nisiseme mengi. Ila Tanzania ina hoja nzito sana. Maana jamaa baada ya kusikia wamepigwaa na butwaa na mshangao. Maana data zetu zilikuwa mpaka na hati na ramani. Hio ndio habari yenyewe. Hivi sasa kila upande unapitia hoja na maelezo ya upande mwingine ili kesho tutoe feedback!

 

[Nicholas]

Tungepata mtu kama Ben Gurion wa Israel,tungepunguza hizi longolongo zinazomaliza hela kugharamia huu ujinga wakati kuna shida kibao.Kama wao ndio wanajifanya kuhost badi inatia huruma.Wamalawi walivyo na njaa,kula chakula yao kunati ahuruma kama kula chakula ya ombomba mara akualikapo kwake.

BEN GURION baada ya Longolongo kibao za Waingereza na mikwara lisitangazwe taifa la Israel.Jamaa alimaliza kazi kama kapagwa vile akatangaza taifa na bendera ikasimama,mbaya walikuwa hata jesh hawana ila wanamgambo .Mpaka leo wa kuing`oa hakuna.
Malawi wakicheza tunawaambia wabongo waliopo kule kama raia waanze kupafanya pasikalike wakati tunaweka meli na boat kadhaa zianze piga kazi+ hata ikibidi safari za kwenda maravi.

 

[Nikupateje]

Hii kutoka fb ya balozi wetu Malawi:
Patrick Lusiano Tsere

2 hours ago

Leo mkutano wetu wa mpaka umeanza na ulifunguliwa na Waziri Chiume wa Mambo ya nje. Ujumbe wetu tulikuwa 13 wa Malawi 20 na ushee, tena mzito haswa. Hotuba ya Waziri Chiume ilikuwa nzuri na iliyojaa ushauri mzuri kwetu sote. Kila upande ulitoa hoja kuhusiana na msimamo wake. Ingekuwa tuko chuoni na kama ni thesis basi ile ya Tanzania ingestahili PHD tena with distinction ilhali ya wenzetu ilikuwa inastahili pass ya kufutia machozi! Jamani inatosha nisiseme mengi. Ila Tanzania ina hoja nzito sana. Maana jamaa baada ya kusikia wamepigwaa na butwaa na mshangao. Maana data zetu zilikuwa mpaka na hati na ramani. Hio ndio habari yenyewe. Hivi sasa kila upande unapitia hoja na maelezo ya upande mwingine ili kesho tutoe feedback!

Jasusi,

Hapa Balozi hajaturidhisha hasa kw amimi binfasi. Huko facebook aliko watu wanachangia kwa wogawoga na hata yeye hapati uhuru kamili wa kueleza mengi tunayostahili kuelezwa.

Hapa Balozi inaelekea ameona kuna historical facts ambazo inaelekea wewe Jasusi ni mwenzetu hukuona zimekuwa covered humu JF. Sasa, sisi tulitegemea hizo facts azimwage tujue ni nini tutarajie.

Mshauri huyo Balozi aje na ID moja ya ajabuajabu mfano (makamasi). Akipata ID atume vitu vikali toka huko chumbani. Hapa JF watu hawajali hoja inatoka kwa nani na ndiyo security tuliyonayo kwa kutoonyesha ID zetu wakati wewe Jasusi sikujui na mimi hunijui.

Anachofanya hapo balozi ni kutupa LIVE UPDATE. Sasa kama issue imetokea leo kwa nini asitupe UPDATE za leo? Anasubiri nini kesho wakati kesho ni siku ya mengine?

Matokeo yake itakuwa kama anacheza mchezo wa siasa wakati watu wana hamu hata ya kuwe na TV tuone live kama nilivyoomba mwanzoni.

Kwa uelewa wangu na hata waliokuwa wanapinga hoja zangu, kama ni kweli Tanzania wamepeleka hati na ramani kwa maana hiyo hata wale wapinzani wangu waliokuwa wanatetea kupitia UN Convention ya 1982 nao hawana lao. Maana huhitaji ramani kwa kujustify hiyo convention.

Maana yake ni kwamba Tanzania tumetumia facts za kabla ya uhuru. Kama ni hilo basi halina tofauti kabisa na aliyosema Membe mle bungeni maana ni kwamba alichozunguma Membe Bungeni kimegeuzwa kuwa vitendo kwa kutoa ramani alizozisema kuwa zipo.

Balozi angekuwa anasoma JF angeona tulivyopinga hoja hii. Si kwamba hatupendi Tanzania ipate bali kwa ushahidi na utetezi hafifu.

Ndiyo maana balozo anaishi kusema presentation ya Tanzania ilikuwa PHD level strike wakati ya wamalawi ilikuwa ni pass grade. Halafu haonyeshi facts. Balozi anapaswa kuficha facts hizi kabla hazijawa explored on the negotiation table, lakini anapozificha wakati zinapotoka si siri tena basi yeye mwenyewe analeta vurugu. Kesho tu tutasoma magazeti ya Malawi itakuwa balaa humu JF.

Mimi namshauri balozi wetu kama nilivyomshauri, ikibidi awe propogandist mimi sina tatizo hilo. propoganda ni pale ambapo unataja facts zilizomtwanga adui unaficha ulizotwangwa. Sasa hapa hatujui kama ngumi imepiga au la.

TUnamuomba balozi afunguke.

 

[Ukwaju]

Nikupateje mm naona tusubiri wahusika kwani huku JamiiForums sio kwenye maamuzi ya nje kwani bado tunasisitiza mada za 1890 na 1902 wakati balozi wetu katamka Jamani inatosha nisiseme mengi tukijifanya wajinga kuna nongwa? mmeona TBC Mkurugenzi Mshana kawaomba radhi Waislamu kwa kutumia Data za wikipedia sasa na sisi tusiwalazimishe watumie za kwako au zetu haileti maana kuna watu tumewaamini WAKO MEZANI na mpaka utawekwa juu ya Ziwa Nyasa
pia mchangiaji MAKAH amethibitisha wote ww na yy ni wadau wa hilo Ziwa Malawi hebu tulieni kuna mengi katika mipaka yetu kuna Wanyarwanda, Wasomali, waarabu nk wanaosumbua subirini mtamuangusha balozi wetu kwa kumlazimisha atoe Siri za kikao hapa jamvini

Hii kutoka fb ya balozi wetu Malawi:
Patrick Lusiano Tsere
2 hours ago
Leo mkutano wetu wa mpaka umeanza na ulifunguliwa na Waziri Chiume wa Mambo ya nje. Ujumbe wetu tulikuwa 13 wa Malawi 20 na ushee, tena mzito haswa. Hotuba ya Waziri Chiume ilikuwa nzuri na iliyojaa ushauri mzuri kwetu sote. Kila upande ulitoa hoja kuhusiana na msimamo wake. Ingekuwa tuko chuoni na kama ni thesis basi ile ya Tanzania ingestahili PHD tena with distinction ilhali ya wenzetu ilikuwa inastahili pass ya kufutia machozi! Jamani inatosha nisiseme mengi. Ila Tanzania ina hoja nzito sana. Maana jamaa baada ya kusikia wamepigwaa na butwaa na mshangao. Maana data zetu zilikuwa mpaka na hati na ramani. Hio ndio habari yenyewe. Hivi sasa kila upande unapitia hoja na maelezo ya upande mwingine ili kesho tutoe feedback!

Hapo kwenye BLUE sina hakika unasema wimbo gani lakini nikiwa mtoto enzi nasikiliza Rado Tanzania niliwahi kusikia kipindi cha Nyimbo Zetu wimbo wenye lyrics hizi:

{Wananchi wa Ludewa tunalilia meli,Wananchi wa Ludewa tunalilia meli, Oyayeh Meli yetu kipendwa, Oyayeh imezama Makonde}

Sijui kama niko sahihi sana maana nilikuwa nasikia na inawezekana nimekosea spellings za baadhi ya maneno.
Lakini hata hivyo, huajua tu, uko sawa kabosa na mimi niliposema haijawahi kuzama meli. Hebu tizama post yako hapo kwenye RED ndipo ujue na mimi ninaongelea kipindi gani.

Hata ule wimbo wa darasa la sita {Mkisi mmoja kavuka Nyasa, kaenda mbali mpaka Nyasaland, akanunua muhogo}. Nadhani ile ilikuwa ni philosophy ya hali ya juu kutufanya tuamini kwamba mpaka wa Malawi uwe wanavyofikiri weng sasa hivi

Tuko pamoja mkuu. Nimegundua sote ni wadau wakuu wa ziwa Nyasa. Mungu atuepushie awape busara viongozi wetu wa nchi hizi mbili. Wamelipuuza sana eneo hili na wanakuja vuta shuka wakati kumekucha!!

 

[Nikupateje]

Nikupateje mm naona tusubiri wahusika kwani huku JamiiForums sio kwenye maamuzi ya nje kwani bado tunasisitiza mada za 1890 na 1902 wakati balozi wetu katamka Jamani inatosha nisiseme mengi tukijifanya wajinga kuna nongwa? mmeona TBC Mkurugenzi Mshana kawaomba radhi Waislamu kwa kutumia Data za wikipedia sasa na sisi tusiwalazimishe watumie za kwako au zetu haileti maana kuna watu tumewaamini WAKO MEZANI na mpaka utawekwa juu ya Ziwa Nyasa
pia mchangiaji MAKAH amethibitisha wote ww na yy ni wadau wa hilo Ziwa Malawi hebu tulieni kuna mengi katika mipaka yetu kuna Wanyarwanda, Wasomali, waarabu nk wanaosumbua subirini mtamuangusha balozi wetu kwa kumlazimisha atoe Siri za kikao hapa jamvini

Mkuu,

Unanielewa au unanifafanua vibaya. Sijataka siri za kikao maana hakuna mmoja wetu aliyethibitishiwa kwamba outcome ya kila kikao ni siri.

OK. Officially, hii meeting inaisha August 25, 2012, yaani Jumamosi. Ukisema tusubiri outcome maana yake hakuna mmoja wetu ama sisi JF au magazeti ya Malawi yatairusha hewani hii.

Ukweli ni kwamba haitakuwa hivyo. Mimi na wewe tukinyamaza wako wengi tu watazungumza tena ikibidi ya ndani hata kama Balozi hataki kusema.

Cha msingi nilichoshauri ni kwamba hii kitu imekuwa na public interest kwa muda mrefu na ilikuwa na tetesi za vita. Usitegemee kwa muda wote huo na hakuna appropriate feedback kama kutakuwa na utulivu hata mimi nikitulia.

Mimi kelele zangu zingeendelea kuwa zilezile za tangu wiki mbili zilizopita ambazo wote mmeona ni wasiwasi wangu si juu ya uhalali wetu kulimiliki ziwa hili au la, bali kuhusu hoja zinazotolewa hewani na utetezi wetu, na huko si kujifanya mjanja au mjinga.

Mimi nimeshtushwa na balozi ambaye huko mwanzoni wakati tunapiga kelele hakuwahi kusema lolote sasa leo anaibukia kwenye facebook na anakuja na yaleyale. Ukweli ni kwamba hajasema lolote na afadhali asingesema. Ukweli kaamsha tension badala ya kuishusha.

Usitegemee balozi azunguymze vile kwamba tuna matumaini wakati haonyeshi hoja yoyote na kukawa na utulivu siku zote hizo. Ni bora angekaa kimya na kama hawezi afadhali aendelee kukaa kimya tupate relevant sources kuliko kutunong'oneza roborobo kwenye facebook, maana huwezi kunong'oneza halafu ukakwepa maswali yanayotokana na kunong'oneza kwako.

Sasa, kesho tu magazeti ya Malawi yatatamka kilichojiri leo aidha huyo balozi ka-update au la. Si unaona yalivyoandika hotuba ya Kikwete kwamba Upinzani nchini Tanzania ndiyo umepigia kelele vita na si yeye kama amiri Jeshi mkuu.

Si umeona magazeti ya hapa yamejifanya hata kuotitaja habari hiyo lakini tumeisoma kupitia Malawi na Msumbiji. Hivyo, wenye kutaka kuendelea kupata daily update tuendelee kupitia source yoyote na wasiotaka nao ni uhuru wao kutotaka.

Nina uwezo wa kutengeneza ID nyingine ili nisionekane nimeongea post nyingi lakini sioni kwa nini nifanye hivyo.

 

[MAKAH]

hawa viongozi wetu wasibanwe sana na masuala ya ramani waangalie historia ya wananchi wanaolizunguka ziwa Nyasa na minasaba ya maisha yao. tukijibana na ramani ni dhahiri kwamba waafrika hatuwezi kutatua tofauti zetu bila hawa nyang'au waliotuletea longolongo Africa.

 

[Ukwaju]

sawa mkuu unajua baada ya kuona Mh. Lowassa leo ametafsiri hiyo kadhia na mh Zitto kaelezea katika tweeter kuwa hata somalia ilikuwa ndani ya Ethiopia naona Abyssinia nimeamini sasa hawa Wamalawi hawatatushinda hata kesho tutauweka tu huo mpaka
Tatizo ni rasilimali zilizopo na Malawi wamewapa makampuni ma4 ya UK

Mimi tangu mwanzo nipo na ww hata ukiangalia thread zangu ndiye uliyetushtua, hata hao walioko Mezani hofu yangu isje ikawa km Wikipedia ya TBC-1 na Waislam

Wakuu mm naona tusimbishie Nitakupataje na wengineo wanaozungumzia suala hili kwani sisi watanganyika toka mwanzo hatuko makini tunaangalia tu upande wa Ziwa Tanganyika, Ziwa Nyanza (Victoria) hata huko Zanzibar tumeisahau Malawi.

[post=4373934]post ya Ukwaju[/post]